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Logic Pro and MainStage Headed to Mac App Store, Boxed Software Discontinued [Updated]
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Ignorance?
I also get tired of the ignorance of people who don't USE pro apps getting mad when people who DO use them complain about features getting removed. When you spend hours at a time for days on end doing nothing but using the program, you know when essential features are gone. Yes, people complain too much, sometimes, but when you market a software to professionals, expect complaints if it's missing professional features - or worse, professional features are actually removed that prevent people from staying current.
Final Cut Pro X has a lot of people I work with eyeing Avid Media Composer and Adobe, the other large NLEs available for Mac. If they dumb down Logic the same way, Pro Tools it is, for me!
I also get tired of the ignorance of people who don't USE pro apps getting mad when people who DO use them complain about features getting removed. When you spend hours at a time for days on end doing nothing but using the program, you know when essential features are gone. Yes, people complain too much, sometimes, but when you market a software to professionals, expect complaints if it's missing professional features - or worse, professional features are actually removed that prevent people from staying current.
Final Cut Pro X has a lot of people I work with eyeing Avid Media Composer and Adobe, the other large NLEs available for Mac. If they dumb down Logic the same way, Pro Tools it is, for me!
Yes, ALL Jam Packs and additional content is included with the price, I'm downloading them as I type this. So for $199.99 you get everything included in the boxed version.
Yep. At the same time they are hoping to sell lots of computers for the holidays and since they don't want to get yet another batch of folks on the DVDs, they put this updated version of 9 in MAS
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iTunes gift card so you can buy it from the App Store? Then for the Express price, you get the full deal
The 3,75 gig Lion-download is completed in less than 25 minutes for me, thus 19 gigs is about 3 hours of downloading (for me). Seems pretty fast, especially faster than driving to a store and buy the software, and I don't use my computer at night so it can download for even longer I know that not everybody has fast internet but Apple is often pushing the envelop
And the Appstore isn't even that fast at all
Apple has made the word "Pro" less than meaningless. A MacBook "Pro" has never been a high end system - "Pro" simply meant that it costs more, it had the ports that you'd expect in a Windows laptop of half the price, and it wasn't made of tacky white plastic that came pre-cracked. (My 76 year old mother-in-law bought the MacBook Pro - because she didn't like the white plastic model.)
ROTFLOL - I've always thought of the Cloud as a contributor to the net bandwidth problem, not a solution for it! Instead of a one-time download at installation time, you want to substitute repeated downloads whenever you use something?
If two things never belong in the same sentence it's "instant access" and "cloud".
Nice for you - obviously you're Apple's target market.
Sucks for the rest of the world, though.
So the rest of the world isn't in Apple's target market? Makes you wonder how Apple became the most successful company in the world.
So the rest of the world isn't in Apple's target market? Makes you wonder how Apple became the most successful company in the world.
How do you define "most successful"? It would have to be pretty narrowly defined for "Apple" to be the winner.
And how many Itoys need 20 GiB downloads to be useful? The topic is the size of the App Store download, after all.
...just trying to keep the goalposts in one place.
Most profitable? Most Capital? Largest market share in the world for their platform (iOS)?
Ok, forget pro apps then. I recently downloaded Borderlands, a popular 3D shooting game, from the Black Friday sale, which clocks in at over 9 GBs from the Mac App Store.
And then imagine downloading The Lord of the Rings Extended Edition movie trilogy to your iPad from iTunes, and thats only in SD...That's around 12 GB right there. This is all Apple's consumer market.
Consumer downloads at large sizes is nothing new. Logic Pro 9's size isn't that far off from the examples I just mentioned.
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Yup, I totally agree. Next model.
Actually, what seems even more feasible now that you mention it is...perhaps Apple will release Logic X alongside the newly redesigned Ivy Bridge Macbook Pros, sans optical disk drive.
I mean they already advertise the Macbook Pro on the Logic Studio page on Apple's site so I think it might be a possiblity.
I can easily see how the entire DVD contents could be squeezed into a 19GB download, when considering how compressible audio data ought to be.
I don't really have too many problems with this move, but I have a couple of niggles:
1) Call me old-fashioned, but I'll miss the paper manuals.
2) A download of that size will not affect or bother me in the slightest, as I have a decent 24Mb connection with an ISP that does not perform traffic shaping or impose monthly download limits. However, in the UK at least, many ISPs *do* impose monthly download caps on their broadband packages, and charge significant premiums for overages. For many, 19GB will represent a pretty huge chunk of their monthly download allowance. I know this is backward and very stupid in this day and age, but that's what happens when you live under a backward and very stupid government and a telecoms giant that is effectively a monopoly.
I don't really have too many problems with this move, but I have a couple of niggles:
1) Call me old-fashioned, but I'll miss the paper manuals.
2) A download of that size will not affect or bother me in the slightest, as I have a decent 24Mb connection with an ISP that does not perform traffic shaping or impose monthly download limits. However, in the UK at least, many ISPs *do* impose monthly download caps on their broadband packages, and charge significant premiums for overages. For many, 19GB will represent a pretty huge chunk of their monthly download allowance. I know this is backward and very stupid in this day and age, but that's what happens when you live under a backward and very stupid government and a telecoms giant that is effectively a monopoly.
So the rest of the world isn't in Apple's target market? Makes you wonder how Apple became the most successful company in the world.
Targeting people with deep pockets only. Insanely high margins that no one else could get away with.
App store only stuff is always going to be confusing to me. Ableton, Pro Tools, Cubase etc.. all have disks still and will for quite a while, as well as offering DL's. Boxing it is still fine and the extra cost (which is small) can be passed on to the consumer anyway so it makes no sense why they are not offering it. It's certainly not pro consumer. I also doubt they will sell as many copies with this route, and for someone as greedy as Apple that is strange.
You think any company producing software that sells a fair amount will only offer DL anytime soon? Windows 8? Perhaps hot selling video games? Sure the games have DLC but the developers would be insane not to offer a disk format. If Apple is so against optical then put the sh** on a USB stick or SD card and mark it up.
I actually think the App store model is a very good one, and you can back it up to a disk or HDD or whatever you want I am pretty sure, but to cut off any kind of physical media this early is just lost potential profit. Go ahead and name other large software sellers that have gone DL only if you can....
I dunno, Avid seem to do fairly well in the Pro Audio field, and their premiums are pretty astronomical, so it's not like Apple are the only people who charge a premium for their goods.
Pro Tools will probably continue to be sold as a boxed product for some time to come, if only because of the iLok requirements that come as part-and-parcel of most PT packages (also, does Cubase still require the use of a dongle?). If you can't run the software without very specific hardware, then there aren't too many advantages for them to move their software model to a web-only implementation as far as I can tell.
That makes no sense whatsoever, of the softward I've purchased that have iLok requirements all were digital downloads.
If anything, Apple is forcing an issue (trying to be trail blazers) and ignoring what some people want. There's nothing wrong w/ offering a stripped down version of Logic as a DDL for those who want it....but why not keep a boxed version for those who wish to pay more, have extra content etc. Even offering a book/paper manual(s) is something that would be in demand for some.
Well, I purchased last night and so far so good. I did have Express before and the only thing about the download side of things is I'll have to re-download it on my MBP and other iMac - which takes time - rather than install from disk.
I like to think I'll miss the paper manual but since I never once referred to the Express one anyway I can't. To be honest, for new users, they should pick up a copy of that book on Amazon by David Nahmani I think it is - it takes you through all core functionality.
I can confirm it is an additional 19 gb content to download. I started it all off before going to bed and it had finished it when I got up though there was another pop up asking if I wanted to download another 6gb. However, it doesn't stop you using the app while it does this lot
For me - it's a bargain - I was considering upgrading to Logic 9 at a cost of £200+ this past few weeks JUST to get Space Designer for a decent reverb system. Then heard this - bought straight away.
As for Jam Packs - not arsed to be honest - I'm a hobbyist but still have around £1000 worth of sample libraries from people like EWQL etc - never really use any of the installed stuff other than the Ultrabeat kits.
As for Logic X - I really can't see them doing an FCP X because for that they have to re-write it from the ground up etc. They already did this in Logic so anything they do for Logic X will just be a natural upgrade.
And, if they really did make it Garageband Pro then there are other choices and people will switch. I doubt they will need to though
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I take it back, I forgot about this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eNIFtcKjVo&feature=player_embedded
I like to think I'll miss the paper manual but since I never once referred to the Express one anyway I can't. To be honest, for new users, they should pick up a copy of that book on Amazon by David Nahmani I think it is - it takes you through all core functionality.
I can confirm it is an additional 19 gb content to download. I started it all off before going to bed and it had finished it when I got up though there was another pop up asking if I wanted to download another 6gb. However, it doesn't stop you using the app while it does this lot
For me - it's a bargain - I was considering upgrading to Logic 9 at a cost of £200+ this past few weeks JUST to get Space Designer for a decent reverb system. Then heard this - bought straight away.
As for Jam Packs - not arsed to be honest - I'm a hobbyist but still have around £1000 worth of sample libraries from people like EWQL etc - never really use any of the installed stuff other than the Ultrabeat kits.
As for Logic X - I really can't see them doing an FCP X because for that they have to re-write it from the ground up etc. They already did this in Logic so anything they do for Logic X will just be a natural upgrade.
And, if they really did make it Garageband Pro then there are other choices and people will switch. I doubt they will need to though
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I take it back, I forgot about this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eNIFtcKjVo&feature=player_embedded
Not sure what qualifies someone as a 'true' professional, but I use the bundled loops/libraries a lot.
I often notice various loops cropping up on TV. Last week on Masterchef for example. They're a great resource if you need a variety of styles with limited time to produce, and it doesn't really bother me if a handful of musos think it's some sort of cop-out. [assume wry smiley face thing]
I do wonder what Logic X might contain (or not) if it's download-only. I assume the libraries will be separate purchases and wonder what the aggregate pricing will turn out to be.
Although after the FCPX debacle I'm not expecting Logic X to be of any interest anyway. In the past Logic upgrades were two steps forwards one step back. My money's on the opposite for the next one.
I do think they could mitigate the natural resistance to a wholesale rewrite by making sure the major third-party plug-ins and libraries are on board with stable working updates of their own ready to go from day one. Some hope.
Except for the Soundtrack pro loops. So if you used them you're SOL in this new version (assuming you're doing a clean install).
It's hilarious to go back and read this thread and see all the doom and gloom before it showed up on the app store...with an update and major price drop.
Now you can get the full Logic pro for the old price of Express. If that's not a good deal I don't know what is.
Audio professionals. Get a clue, there are already many high end sample libraries that are 20 gigs or more, download sales only. Works great, even if it takes a couple days to download that's faster than mail order. Plus with Logic the downloads are split into the different components so you don't have to get them all at once.
All jam packs ARE included.
Not everything, it doesn't include Waveburner, Soundtrack pro, and looks like it doesn't have the STP audio content.
Logic has had pdf manuals only for years, the boxed version of L9 didn't have paper manuals either.
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And yet now logic is only $199.
Avid stock was at an all time low recently (although I've heard that the audio side does OK and the video side was what was holding them down). They recently released PT10 with astronomical upgrade prices less than a year after version 9, and users are livid.
PT has also been available as a download version for at least a year or two.
Now you can get the full Logic pro for the old price of Express. If that's not a good deal I don't know what is.
Audio professionals. Get a clue, there are already many high end sample libraries that are 20 gigs or more, download sales only. Works great, even if it takes a couple days to download that's faster than mail order. Plus with Logic the downloads are split into the different components so you don't have to get them all at once.
All jam packs ARE included.
Not everything, it doesn't include Waveburner, Soundtrack pro, and looks like it doesn't have the STP audio content.
Logic has had pdf manuals only for years, the boxed version of L9 didn't have paper manuals either.
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And yet now logic is only $199.
Avid stock was at an all time low recently (although I've heard that the audio side does OK and the video side was what was holding them down). They recently released PT10 with astronomical upgrade prices less than a year after version 9, and users are livid.
PT has also been available as a download version for at least a year or two.
Yeah, I never questioned anything about PT being a download, I simply said that I don't see them moving over to a download *only* model at any point in the near future.
Ahh, my bad then. Last version I bought was v7, which came with a full complement of really nice printed documentation.
Some in this case is very possibly a small minority compared to those that would want it.
You do realize that that extra content you speak of is actually available in the digital copies. Yes it's a second download but it is free.
And even a Pro is going to be thrilled to get the same software and loops etc for half the price.
Now if you want to complain about how they didn't include Waveburner or the loops and such are still lossy and there's no lossless option even at a price, then there's something to gripe about.
I'm well aware of that, I'm talking about inlcuding the whole kitten kaboodle in a boxed set for those that wish to pay more for it. I'm hardly against DDLs, some people prefer more is all, some just want the bare bones. Why not include Waveburner and the loops as a download? I'm sure they have their reason but at least offer it as an option. Is Soundtrack Pro still included? I'm hardly complaining, just raising the question is all...and thinking ahead to what the next version of Logic might look like.
Looks like wave burner is probably dead along with STP (the demise of which was obvious once FCX shipped with no option to get it, it also hasn't been updated in over two years). And the loops ARE included. For the most part this IS the whole kit and caboodle, it's the same stuff just in download form.