Logitech Launches New Circle View Camera With HomeKit Secure Video Support

[BeatCrazy]

It seems to run on Apple's servers. Apples $2.99 a month storage plan is now 200 GB storage, _plus_ any storage that one of these devices uses.

The footage captured/stored by these HomeKit Secure Video cameras don’t count against your iCloud data bucket.

PoE would make this thing perfect.
No 5GHz is just strange, likely means it’s 802.11n which is ancient.

2.4GHz is used for IoT-type devices because the range can be a lot farther than 5GHz devices. Considering people often mount these to the outside of their house and with many walls/structures in between the router, the range and signal penetration offered by 2.4GHz is deemed more important than the throughput offered by 5GHz. 2.4GHz is just fine for these type of cameras.

What actually has changed since last one apart from different colour it’s the same

Hard-button mute for audio/video. Not much else from a feature standpoint. The physical design is definitely different.

Interesting that it MSRPs for less than the Circle 2. Is it inferior?
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Also interesting that the wired Circle 2 hasn't been available for months. I wonder if it's been discontinued in favor of this camera.

I’d say it’s inferior to the Circle 2, because as of now this new one does not have a window mount available.

Yes, the Circle 2 is discontinued, and has been for several months. I needed warranty replacement for two of mine, and they finally gave up and had to send me the wireless ones. Which do work fine with HSV, as long as you have a wired base to attach them to.

 

[GaryMumford]

No 5Ghz WiFi? No POE option? Nope.

WOW, my original Circle 2 works on 5ghz WiFi, so why don’t these?
POE... it’s not got an Ethernet port so POE was never going to be an option.

 

[macduke]

I'm waiting for 4K HomeKit Secure Video cameras with WiFi 6 support and advanced machine learning AI that can distinguish between different types of motion. Ring is pretty good at the motion stuff, but I don't like that Amazon owns them now so I'm looking to replace it. I got my grandparents the Eufycam 2C kit and the motion detection on them sucks. You only get a few boxes to draw the area, no polygon support like Ring, and most of the time it doesn't even pick up large vehicles coming or going on their gravel drive circle, but it will pick up shimmery movements from tree shadows and send them alerts all day long about it which keeps running their battery down.

@jclo The article needs to be updated. There is not a 1TB iCloud storage option. A few years ago Apple upgraded it to 2TB for the same price.

 

[name99]

Wyzecams are $26 shipped with no subscriptions and even comes with 12 seconds/event of free cloud storage. If you want "complete motion capture" to upload more than 12 seconds to the cloud, it's $1.50/mo/camera. I'm sure this logitech camera is "better" in every way, but imo it's hard to compete with Wyze's business model.

They're solving a very different problem. Both are useful, and people who are not insane are happy to use both! I personally have both (equivalents) in my house -- Blink for some tasks, Nest for others.

There's something broken about modern society that KEEPS insisting, no matter how often this is pointed out as dumb, that every problem requires one *and only one* solution.
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No 5Ghz WiFi? No POE option? Nope.

Can we stay at least vaguely attached to reality? PoE is a MASSIVELY specialized item, it's hardly something that the average consumer knows about, cares about, or could even support in their house. It makes zero sense to demand that a consumer product support that; if you want business features look at business products.

5GHz is less justifiable, but I think the reality is that the market has pretty much concluded that 2.4GHz is the best option for IoT devices because of range. You can fight this every day, or you can accept this reality, create a separate 2.4GHz network for your IoT devices, and get on with your life.

There is real crap out there in the IoT space -- things like WeMo plugs that simply randomly disconnect from HomeKit every few days. I think we need to spend our energy fighting the battle against real crap, not against decisions that are perfectly reasonable, even if you don't like them. If you want 5GHz, EveCam gives you that. If you want PoE, the Ubiquiti cameras give you that, and you can HomeBridge them to HomeKit.

 

[macdragonfl]

It seems to me the cameras are not as versatile as the Circle 2 line. No 5 Ghz? Circle 2 has that. I converted 4 Circle 2’s without issue and had no issues on Logi software either. I already had 2 GB iCloud storage, so no brainer. I do think that Logi software was better at motion detection. I’m sure that will be addressed in future updates. I love the window mount and the magnetic mount. The Circle 2 has also the battery option if you need it.

 

[gcmexico]

no wireless no go...Arlo to me is still the best...wish they would just use all of homekit features

 

[827538]

2.4GHz is used for IoT-type devices because the range can be a lot farther than 5GHz devices. Considering people often mount these to the outside of their house and with many walls/structures in between the router, the range and signal penetration offered by 2.4GHz is deemed more important than the throughput offered by 5GHz. 2.4GHz is just fine for these type of cameras.

Yes and many people rely on 5GHz in built up areas due to the huge amount of interference present on longer range networks like 2.4GHz. I believe there's only three non-overlapping channels on the 2.4GHz side of things in the US. 5GHz if it reaches will likely provide a better and less congested service.

I don't necessarily want 5GHz for throughput, I find that 5GHz works better in dense environments.
Also having a 802.11n will affect every other device on the network. Ideally you want every device on 802.11ax for optimal performance, especially going forward. The fact this relies on wireless technology that's 14 years old is not really acceptable for the price. 2.4GHz 802.11ax - great, 2.4GHz 802.11n - not great. PoE option would be perfect for many users too.

 

[PsykX]

I so regret having bought an Arlo Pro 3 set of 4 cameras. No plans on supporting HomeKit Secure Video anytime soon.
They have probably the best hardware, but the software is bad.
The hardware AND their plans are overly expensive.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Yes and many people rely on 5GHz in built up areas due to the huge amount of interference present on longer range networks like 2.4GHz. I believe there's only three non-overlapping channels on the 2.4GHz side of things in the US. 5GHz if it reaches will likely provide a better and less congested service.

I don't necessarily want 5GHz for throughput, I find that 5GHz works better in dense environments.
Also having a 802.11n will affect every other device on the network. Ideally you want every device on 802.11ax for optimal performance, especially going forward. The fact this relies on wireless technology that's 14 years old is not really acceptable for the price. 2.4GHz 802.11ax - great, 2.4GHz 802.11n - not great. PoE option would be perfect for many users too.

Maybe the next gen will have Wi-Fi6. Right now, there just aren't enough client radio options for a device like this.

Also, if you're running most things on 5GHz, your 2.4GHz clients won't be too crowded. In other words, tell me when you feel you're getting "too dense" of a 2.4GHz environment, in your home (where these cameras will be used), today? You should already have most everything else on 5GHz.

Also, PoE doesn't fit the HomeKit Secure Video ethos. "Plug and Play", PoE is not

 

[Edsel]

At $160.00 it's a ripoff. Their profit margin on this is immense and I wonder how much $$ Apple makes with Logitech endorsing HomeKit. This is a $39.99 product, not $160.00 product.

I'm getting exhau$ted by Apple's branding empire.

 

[Roll'n J]

The white cable irks me.

Its just a USB cable - you can get whatever color you want

 

[BeatCrazy]

Its just a USB cable - you can get whatever color you want

No, it’s attached to the camera with a proprietary connection:

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At $160.00 it's a ripoff. Their profit margin on this is immense and I wonder how much $$ Apple makes with Logitech endorsing HomeKit. This is a $39.99 product, not $160.00 product.

I'm getting exhau$ted by Apple's branding empire.

Are there other $40 weather proof HomeKit Secure Video cameras? Serious question. I’m using three different camera types, three different recording/camera management schemes.

 

[centauratlas]

So if this thing is almost the size of a US wall outlet's frame, why is the resolution so low? This thing is massive. Does the ring do something to improve the quality of their image over their standard 1080p webcams? Cause those things are terrible at making a room viewable. Maybe, it might be low due to bandwidth limits, but they at least could sell a 4K camera that is HD on some streaming services but 4k on others.

If they did POE, then they could do the 4K over Ethernet. Given what it appears they are using for WiFi (e.g. old) it probably couldn't handle multiple (or 1?) 4K streams.

 

[name99]

Yes and many people rely on 5GHz in built up areas due to the huge amount of interference present on longer range networks like 2.4GHz. I believe there's only three non-overlapping channels on the 2.4GHz side of things in the US. 5GHz if it reaches will likely provide a better and less congested service.

I don't necessarily want 5GHz for throughput, I find that 5GHz works better in dense environments.
Also having a 802.11n will affect every other device on the network. Ideally you want every device on 802.11ax for optimal performance, especially going forward. The fact this relies on wireless technology that's 14 years old is not really acceptable for the price. 2.4GHz 802.11ax - great, 2.4GHz 802.11n - not great. PoE option would be perfect for many users too.

You come across as someone who wants to be disagreeable, not as someone trying to understand the issue.
It has already been explained to you multiple times that you can have both -- a low throughput long range 2.4GHz network for IoT AND a 5GHz network for primary devices and throughput.

So why are you still arguing this issue?

And "PoE option would be perfect for many users too". Give me a break!
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At $160.00 it's a ripoff. Their profit margin on this is immense and I wonder how much $$ Apple makes with Logitech endorsing HomeKit. This is a $39.99 product, not $160.00 product.

I'm getting exhau$ted by Apple's branding empire.

😭😭😭

There are approximately a trillion cameras out there, most of which are more or less usable on iOS, most of which are usable in HomeKit (if you absolutely insist) via HomeBridge, and with even a wide range of prices and capabilities on the HomeKit video side.
What *I* am getting exhausted by is people who seem to feel it's necessary to complain when a company produces a product that isn't exactly what they want, even when so many options are available!
Don't like it, then BUY the $40 product! Blink is available today, as is Wyze. Eufy will probably be available before the end of May!

 

[meduk1]

Apple should separate the listings on their site for cameras that do not support Secure Video service but are HomeKit enabled. arlo has good cameras on spec sheet, but do not currently support Secure Video with no published plan to do so.

While HKSV is safe enough for me as a home user, it's still one of those things that will make customers cock their heads sideways at me for implementing as all the video is stored off-site.

iCloud is quite safe to my understanding, but someone will inevitably remind me of the massive breach years back that saw celebrity accounts leaked.

Apple does separate out the cameras that support HomeKit and those that support Secure Video. There's an * against those on their site that support secure video. The Alro's are listed as supporting HomeKit but not secure so it is accurate, although not immediately obvious until you read the small print!

 

[Eorlas]

Apple does separate out the cameras that support HomeKit and those that support Secure Video. There's an * against those on their site that support secure video. The Alro's are listed as supporting HomeKit but not secure so it is accurate, although not immediately obvious until you read the small print!

you are absolutely right, it's obvious to me now that you pointed it out, but i didnt not initially see the bullet points to the left of the product that indictate this. actually scrolled it twice again to realize they were not after the product name which i would think is the normal place to put it.

i really want to get the arlo 4k cams, but without secure video support that's an additional $15 per month in subscription to use the cams...

 

[CarolCCC]

> There are no monthly fees associated with HomeKit Secure Video,
> but it does require a 200GB or 1TB iCloud storage plan.

Huh?
There's no monthly fee... except for the monthly fee you are required to pay forever.

Great writing!

 

[kmdesign]

Can we stay at least vaguely attached to reality? PoE is a MASSIVELY specialized item, it's hardly something that the average consumer knows about, cares about, or could even support in their house. It makes zero sense to demand that a consumer product support that; if you want business features look at business products.

5GHz is less justifiable, but I think the reality is that the market has pretty much concluded that 2.4GHz is the best option for IoT devices because of range. You can fight this every day, or you can accept this reality, create a separate 2.4GHz network for your IoT devices, and get on with your life.

Hmmm, when you think you're smarter than everyone else, you get snarky. Fine. You have to live with yourself, not me.

What you failed to mention is that PoE solves every issue that consumer-grade wifi cameras present. If consumers want (demand) multiple cameras pushing out 1080p or 4K video streams at 20+fps over their wifi network, they're going to be very disappointed. PoE isn't a business feature, it's a technology, just like network attached storage (NAS) was a business-grade thing that crossed over to the consumer side, nearly 20 years ago.

As for 2.4 vs. 5GHz, each has its strengths and weaknesses, which you also failed to mention. Thankfully, most consumer-grade routers support both (dual band). Many now also support "business" level tech like band steering, QoS (quality of service), et al. They do the difficult, complicated network optimization work automatically. Sure, wireless switches and alarm door sensors make sense being 2.4-only—they push very small bits of data. But a 1080p camera offering only 2.4GHz? What if that camera is 5 feet from the wifi router? Isn't 5GHz the better band to put it on on?

And FYI, my home network was a full-blown Ubiquiti UniFi stack. Now it's a eero mesh wifi router with a NetGear 16-port PoE+ switch attached. Nothing fancy there. I'm getting nearly gigabit throughput to our computers over wifi, something a USG and three UniFi AP's couldn't do. And my security cameras push 4K all day because they're hard-wired to the switch. But why the equipment change? Because consumer-grade is now as good, if not better than the business-grade equipment, and its infinitely easier (hands off) to manage.

That's the way technology evolves. Eventually, it all becomes democratized. That is reality.

 

[827538]

Maybe the next gen will have Wi-Fi6. Right now, there just aren't enough client radio options for a device like this.

Also, if you're running most things on 5GHz, your 2.4GHz clients won't be too crowded. In other words, tell me when you feel you're getting "too dense" of a 2.4GHz environment, in your home (where these cameras will be used), today? You should already have most everything else on 5GHz.

Also, PoE doesn't fit the HomeKit Secure Video ethos. "Plug and Play", PoE is not

PoE is exactly plug and play. You literally plug it in and it is connected and working.
These devices still need to be connected to WiFi.

The problem with 2.4GHz relates to the fact it travels further, so you can have a lot of your neighbors 2.4GHz signals overlapping with yours. I don't have this problem as I live on 5 and a half acres so the only signal being emitted is mine. But I have lived in densely populated areas were there were perhaps 10-15 2.4GHz signals overlapping and making it almost useless. In that scenario using one of these cameras would be flakey at best..

PoE is common even in cheap consumer switches, it requires zero setup, just plug in and go. The only place it's not really common is in 2-in-1 modem/router combos, and if you are hooking up say 5 cameras you are going to be using a switch.

 

[BeatCrazy]

PoE is exactly plug and play. You literally plug it in and it is connected and working.
These devices still need to be connected to WiFi.

The problem with 2.4GHz relates to the fact it travels further, so you can have a lot of your neighbors 2.4GHz signals overlapping with yours. I don't have this problem as I live on 5 and a half acres so the only signal being emitted is mine. But I have lived in densely populated areas were there were perhaps 10-15 2.4GHz signals overlapping and making it almost useless. In that scenario using one of these cameras would be flakey at best..

PoE is common even in cheap consumer switches, it requires zero setup, just plug in and go. The only place it's not really common is in 2-in-1 modem/router combos, and if you are hooking up say 5 cameras you are going to be using a switch.

PoE is not plug and play, for the average HomeKit/Apple consumer. This Logitech Circle View camera is positioned as real plug and play. You already have Wi-Fi, you have an iOS device. Just click the “plus“ button and you’ll be viewing footage in about 60 seconds.

Let’s compare that to an average consumer experience with a PoE camera (I have several) setup, and the questions that one must ask themselves during setup:

1) Do I have a PoE-compatible switch (not inexpensive, not used for “normal“ things, not sold at Best Buy or Walmart stores)?
2) Do I need PoE+?
3) Does my PoE switch have enough power for the camera? These things can get confusing.
4) Oops I need a longer ethernet cable. Will any cable work?
5) Do I need to connect to Wi-Fi as well?
6) Do I even have a “switch”? You’d be surprised how many households only have Ethernet ports on the back of their ISP-provided router.

^^ You may know the answers, and I may know the answers, but to the average person ordering from the Logitech website or Amazon, you’re introducing a host of variables that don’t lend themselves to the simplicity of HomeKit.

 

[name99]

Hmmm, when you think you're smarter than everyone else, you get snarky. Fine. You have to live with yourself, not me.

What you failed to mention is that PoE solves every issue that consumer-grade wifi cameras present. If consumers want (demand) multiple cameras pushing out 1080p or 4K video streams at 20+fps over their wifi network, they're going to be very disappointed. PoE isn't a business feature, it's a technology, just like network attached storage (NAS) was a business-grade thing that crossed over to the consumer side, nearly 20 years ago.

As for 2.4 vs. 5GHz, each has its strengths and weaknesses, which you also failed to mention. Thankfully, most consumer-grade routers support both (dual band). Many now also support "business" level tech like band steering, QoS (quality of service), et al. They do the difficult, complicated network optimization work automatically. Sure, wireless switches and alarm door sensors make sense being 2.4-only—they push very small bits of data. But a 1080p camera offering only 2.4GHz? What if that camera is 5 feet from the wifi router? Isn't 5GHz the better band to put it on on?

And FYI, my home network was a full-blown Ubiquiti UniFi stack. Now it's a eero mesh wifi router with a NetGear 16-port PoE+ switch attached. Nothing fancy there. I'm getting nearly gigabit throughput to our computers over wifi, something a USG and three UniFi AP's couldn't do. And my security cameras push 4K all day because they're hard-wired to the switch. But why the equipment change? Because consumer-grade is now as good, if not better than the business-grade equipment, and its infinitely easier (hands off) to manage.

That's the way technology evolves. Eventually, it all becomes democratized. That is reality.

Look, I'm not denying that PoE has value. I'm denying that it's mainstream.
You can WISH it were mainstream. But it isn't.
I wish 2.5Gbps or 5Gbps ethernet were consumer mainstream, so that I could buy a decent, low-power, consumer switch. But I'm grounded enough in reality to know that that just isn't the case. And someone who was happy to run a Unifi system at home is probably not the best judge of where the consumer mainstream is currently situated...

I think you're also being unrealistic about the variety of homes. There are many many homes for which ethernet is not pre-installed. Or for which there's no obvious way, short of drilling holes in the wall, to connect inside ethernet to outside. Such homes are better served (for most people's definition of better) by wireless cameras.

No-one denies you the right to want the cameras you want. What'e being denied is that there's some massive demand for these cameras that Logitech, for some strange reason, refuses to serve.

 

[meduk1]

Given these are only 1080p I can see why they went with 2.4 for the additional range. the 2.4 bandwidth on modern routers is also pretty decent these days. I just upgraded my router and was getting over 200mb connection on 2.4 from the other side of my house so plenty to support these camera functions.

 

[Tech198]

loos like a compact disc on a pedestal.

 

[0134168]

I have one, but not had any issues at all? HomeKit in the cloud works great too, and Logitech even kindly cancelled my subscription to their service when I enabled it.

Had nothing but positive experiences with Logitech in general, gear's generally good quality.

Same here. Absolutely happy with it. Mone than one year using it and no complains at all.
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See no reason to replace Circle 2 with this device.
Cash grab it seems by Logitech. Have had no issues with Circle 2 and HSV. Also enjoy them being plugged into my outlets.

Also have it in an outlet. Can´t understand why they drop this feature.

 

[hallsofmontezum]

I'm in the same boat. They've been trying to ship me a wireless as a replacement (I don't want it), and are still claiming they'll eventually send me a wired when they come back in stock.
I tried to get them to just send me the new one, which is cheaper, and they won't.

Yes, the Circle 2 is discontinued, and has been for several months. I needed warranty replacement for two of mine, and they finally gave up and had to send me the wireless ones. Which do work fine with HSV, as long as you have a wired base to attach them to.