Looking for a Sports car. Help.

[twoodcc]

wow I even get to learn about what a realmans' car is, and how a camry is or isn't a sports/sporty car.
</sarcasm>

The Rx8 is hard to beat, I'm taking it for a testdrive next Wed.

As for if the car is girly or manly, I really don't care. (As long as its not a Bug i just dont like that car, except for the super beetles).

well, you know, gotta stand my ground

but anyways, go for the RX-8. yeah, you do see a lot of girls driving it, but a girl can drive any car.

 

[mahashel]

I'd definitely recommend the RX8, at least for a testdrive.
The suicide-style back doors are a really neat feature, and might be just what you need if you're going to be putting people in the back of a sports car. It's a rare gimmick that you just might get a lot of good out of.
Just remember (and the salesman may remind you a dozen times, like he did for me) to keep the motor revved up pretty high. It's a wicked ride, but you really gotta keep that tiny rotary wrapped up to get the "sports car" feel out of it. My Jetta turbo seemed to have more low-RPM torque than the RX8. lol

As for the reservations about VW reliability. I think it's luck of the draw.
Personally, I was turned off by VW's reliability at first, considering all the horrible things I've read online and whatnot. Horror stories of people taking their v-dubs back to the shop every couple weeks. I still somehow ended up in a Jetta, and the thing has been a dream. No problems at all (aside from needing to replace the battery after having a brain-fart while installing my sub amp, which resulted in some impromptu welding)
Thus, a GTI may still be in the cards for me. I can totally understand your hesitance though.

 

[iGav]

It's a wicked ride, but you really gotta keep that tiny rotary wrapped up to get the "sports car" feel out of it.

Which is its greatest problem... you either cane it everywhere or be made to look silly by London buses.

 

[quagmire]

all i'm saying is that someone said earlier about how the Camry would never be affliated with being a "sports car". that's one premise against him.

but i think the 0-60 in 6.1 seconds should speak for itself.....no matter what "car" it is

For those who affiliate the Camry as being a sports car because it is in Nascar need to have their head examined. Because as both of us have said, the Nascar Camry and stock Camry have one thing in common: the name. The engines are different( Nascar is OHV), frame(RWD), etc. Sure 0-60 in 6.1 is decent for a family sedan. Then again the Tundra and Sierra Denali are a few tenths behind and is far more impressive then a lighter family sedan. But, it doesn't make the Camry a sports car or the Tundra or Sierra Denali a sports truck. [/end hijack of thread]

 

[Kamera RAWr]

Ok, since I've read this whole thread and didn't see it, so... I'm going to recommend an old favorite of mine. A 1993+ Toyota Supra, turbo of course.

 

[mahashel]

The Golf GT (Twincharger) is a much more impressive car/engine combination IMHO.

Whilst lacking the outright performance of the GTi, day-to-day flexibility and performance is much more accessible. You'd have to really exercise the GTi to not look silly in comparison.

Sounds like a nice vehicle, but I don't see it on the VW website. Is this yet *another* awesome car that we yanks get screwed out of?
The only "Golf" options offered by VW-USA are GTi, Rabbit, and R32 (which are obscenely hard to find and I've heard mixed reviews about).

 

[twoodcc]

For those who affiliate the Camry as being a sports car because it is in Nascar need to have their head examined. Because as both of us have said, the Nascar Camry and stock Camry have one thing in common: the name. The engines are different( Nascar is OHV), frame(RWD), etc. Sure 0-60 in 6.1 is decent for a family sedan. Then again the Tundra and Sierra Denali are a few tenths behind and is far more impressive then a lighter family sedan. But, it doesn't make the Camry a sports car or the Tundra or Sierra Denali a sports truck. [/end hijack of thread]

whoa, hold up. let's think about this for a second. i said that was one reason. there is a lot in a name. the current camry, especially compared to the past ones, is more "sporty". you say 6.1 seconds is "decent" for a family sedan. isn't every sedan for a family? or could be.

this thing has 268 horsepower, gets what, almost 30 mpg highway (and i'm not even looking up the stats, this is from memory, you can check if you want). name me another "family sedan" with that? what, the honda accord that just came out? clearly they copied the camry, and the camry is still faster.

you take a look at the v6 camry with the body kit and dual exhaust, it's quite nice

here is a pic:

 

[twistedlegato]

No one really like my suggestion of the DB9 now did they?

Anyways, have you seen the Altima coupe (if the Infiniti is to much)? They are quite nice.

 

[twoodcc]

No one really like my suggestion of the DB9 now did they?

Anyways, have you seen the Altima coupe (if the Infiniti is to much)? They are quite nice.

yeah i forgot about the new Altima coupe. i would recommend that as well (but i like the Infiniti better)

 

[quagmire]

whoa, hold up. let's think about this for a second. i said that was one reason. there is a lot in a name. the current camry, especially compared to the past ones, is more "sporty". you say 6.1 seconds is "decent" for a family sedan. isn't every sedan for a family? or could be.

this thing has 268 horsepower, gets what, almost 30 mpg highway (and i'm not even looking up the stats, this is from memory, you can check if you want). name me another "family sedan" with that? what, the honda accord that just came out? clearly they copied the camry, and the camry is still faster.

you take a look at the v6 camry with the body kit and dual exhaust, it's quite nice

here is a pic:

Eh. Sure the Camry is more sportier designed then the last gen. Then again Toyota didn't do much in the design. Take the front design theme of Mazda and take the Lexus rear end, BOOM you got the new Camry. In an uglier fashion( though looks are subjective). How could Honda copy the Camry when there was only 1 year between them? Please tell me how an auto company can reengineer parts in 1 years time to the quality standards of the automaker? My 2007 Saturn Aura XR does 0-60 in 5.9( Road&Track). Oh and you can't count it as a point if the point is invalid. And the Nascar point is invalid. Doesn't matter what people think what determines whether a car is a sports car. People think GM and Ford products are POS's because of what they made 20 years ago, does it make it true now? No. There is a difference between reality and perception.

 

[iGav]

Sounds like a nice vehicle, but I don't see it on the VW website. Is this yet *another* awesome car that we yanks get screwed out of?

Yeah, I didn't realise that Fearless was U.S. based, whoopsie.

It's a small capacity (1.4) engine, but twincharged by a super & turbocharger, so it's a glorious juxtaposition of contradictions.

It kind of drives like a long stroke, large capacity petrol engine, with instant low-end torque courtesy of the supercharger, but with the top end of a buzzy turbo'd 2 litre.

It's only fractionally slower against the clock than the GTi, but the performance is accessible all the time, so you'd have to really wind the GTi up to keep up... whilst the GT would almost be the epitome of serenity in comparison.

It's a remarkable little engine, it's a massive shame that it didn't exist when Audi was still producing the A2... because that would've equated to somewhere in the region of 170bhp/per ton.

Here's a review of it.

And another one too, though I disagree with him about the "consistently annoying hesitancy" I didn't notice any, it was a case of press it and it just... goes.

 

[ErikCLDR]

whoa, hold up. let's think about this for a second. i said that was one reason. there is a lot in a name. the current camry, especially compared to the past ones, is more "sporty". you say 6.1 seconds is "decent" for a family sedan. isn't every sedan for a family? or could be.

this thing has 268 horsepower, gets what, almost 30 mpg highway (and i'm not even looking up the stats, this is from memory, you can check if you want). name me another "family sedan" with that? what, the honda accord that just came out? clearly they copied the camry, and the camry is still faster.

you take a look at the v6 camry with the body kit and dual exhaust, it's quite nice

here is a pic:

ugh. I believe he was looking for a sports car, not the most common sedan in the US with some flares. Part of having a sports car is that it is somewhat rare, sporty, and has some class to it. Ok so its pretty fast in a strait line, but is it really that fun to drive?

 

[twoodcc]

Eh. Sure the Camry is more sportier designed then the last gen. Then again Toyota didn't do much in the design. Take the front design theme of Mazda and take the Lexus rear end, BOOM you got the new Camry. In an uglier fashion( though looks are subjective). How could Honda copy the Camry when there was only 1 year between them? Please tell me how an auto company can reengineer parts in 1 years time to the quality standards of the automaker? My 2007 Saturn Aura XR does 0-60 in 5.9( Road&Track). Oh and you can't count it as a point if the point is invalid. And the Nascar point is invalid. Doesn't matter what people think what determines whether a car is a sports car. People think GM and Ford products are POS's because of what they made 20 years ago, does it make it true now? No. There is a difference between reality and perception.

toyota didn't do much in the design? they own Lexus, if you didn't know. and yes, looks are subjective. but you can't say that the pic i just posted isn't "sporty".

well look at the Accord. it has the exact same horsepower as the camry. it basically has the exact same everything, except a few more inches of space. i'd call that copying. if the shoe fits....

how is the Nascar point invalid? you telling me a name means nothing? look at the new Dodge Charger.....clearly using that name. does Mustang not mean anything?

doesn't matter what people think is a sports car? that's all that matters! if it's a sports car to you, then it's a sports car, case closed. it's all relative.

i do believe Ford and GM still aren't up to par with the toyotas and hondas. you really think so? yeah, they might have improved some, but i wouldn't buy one.

ugh. I believe he was looking for a sports car, not the most common sedan in the US with some flares. Part of having a sports car is that it is somewhat rare, sporty, and has some class to it. Ok so its pretty fast in a strait line, but is it really that fun to drive?

you can say that, but i don't see cars looking like the pic i just posted everywhere. yeah, there are tons of old camrys and stuff, but not many that look like that.

and since when does "sporty" = "rare"?

 

[quagmire]

toyota didn't do much in the design? they own Lexus, if you didn't know. and yes, looks are subjective. but you can't say that the pic i just posted isn't "sporty".

well look at the Accord. it has the exact same horsepower as the camry. it basically has the exact same everything, except a few more inches of space. i'd call that copying. if the shoe fits....

how is the Nascar point invalid? you telling me a name means nothing? look at the new Dodge Charger.....clearly using that name. does Mustang not mean anything?

doesn't matter what people think is a sports car? that's all that matters! if it's a sports car to you, then it's a sports car, case closed. it's all relative.

i do believe Ford and GM still aren't up to par with the toyotas and hondas. you really think so? yeah, they might have improved some, but i wouldn't buy one.

Yes, I know they own Lexus, but that rear end design was already put in place in a Lexus. Toyota didn't have to do much to think of a rear design for the new Camry. Same with the Mazda inspired front.

Oh wow. So same power is copying now? So basically Honda is putting Toyota engines in the Accords? Shame I guess that Honda mates a 5 speed auto to the Toyota engine eh?

A name does mean something. But, the Camry being in Nascar isn't a valid point for arguing the Camry is a sports car. If the Nascar Camry shared the engine and is maybe 50% stock, then maybe you can argue it, but it shares 0% to the stock Camry. I won't argue the Impala, Fusion, and Avenger is a sports car either. BTW, the Charger and Mustang got their reputation from what they could do STOCK. Not something that shares the Mustang name.

I can say GM is reliable( for me at least) because I have owned 4 GM products and had no major problems with them. A 1996 Suburban( no problems), 2002 Suburban( no problems so far), 2006 Equinox( no problems so far), and 2007 Aura XR( no problems so far). Have they had their quirks? Yes, but every car has its quirks even Toyota's and Honda's. Just ask the new Tundra owners with bent tailgates, bad transmissions, and bad camshafts. Same with the new Camry with the transmission refusing to shift into 2nd and 6th. My Aura's quirks have been relatively minor. Mostly software programing for the 6 speed auto. But, a ticking tach and a rattling liner in the sunroof( both TSB's) is the only other quirks I have had with it. That is what we all get for buying first MY products. What is your experience with GM?

 

[twoodcc]

Yes, I know they own Lexus, but that rear end design was already put in place in a Lexus. Toyota didn't have to do much to think of a rear design for the new Camry. Same with the Mazda inspired front.

Oh wow. So same power is copying now? So basically Honda is putting Toyota engines in the Accords? Shame I guess that Honda mates a 5 speed auto to the Toyota engine eh?

A name does mean something. But, the Camry being in Nascar isn't a valid point for arguing the Camry is a sports car. If the Nascar Camry shared the engine and is maybe 50% stock, then maybe you can argue it, but it shares 0% to the stock Camry. I won't argue the Impala, Fusion, and Avenger is a sports car either. BTW, the Charger and Mustang got their reputation from what they could do STOCK. Not something that shares the Mustang name.

I can say GM is reliable( for me at least) because I have owned 4 GM products and had no major problems with them. A 1996 Suburban( no problems), 2002 Suburban( no problems so far), 2006 Equinox( no problems so far), and 2007 Aura XR( no problems so far). Have they had their quirks? Yes, but every car has its quirks even Toyota's and Honda's. Just ask the new Tundra owners with bent tailgates, bad transmissions, and bad camshafts. Same with the new Camry with the transmission refusing to shift into 2nd and 6th. My Aura's quirks have been relatively minor. Mostly software programing for the 6 speed auto. But, a ticking tach and a rattling liner in the sunroof( both TSB's) is the only other quirks I have had with it. That is what we all get for buying first MY products. What is your experience with GM?

well of course they will use things from Lexus in a Toyota, including engines. They are the same company. I'm still not so sure about the mazda thing.

I find it unusual to have the exact same size engine, and the exact same horsepower. You didn't see the new Tundra with the same specs as any other truck did you?

I still disagree. Having the camry name in nascar helps it become more "sporty". why else would they call it a camry then? it's marketing.

i'm glad you had a good experience from GM. I personally was raised in an anti-american-car home. my dad had several GM or Ford products, and had a poor experience. now we own all toyotas and basically no problems.

 

[Rapmastac1]

Do you want a unique sports car with enough space for five people and all of their stuff will fit in the trunk, breathing aloud with a v10 engine putting out a massive amount of horsepower. It's equaled between luxury and performance, with looks that just make you want to cry becuase you really want one.

I got one car for you...

http://sowiesonietleuk.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/maserati-quattroporte.jpg

Too bad it's a bit out of your price range, at about 100,000.00 USD new and about 80,000.00 USD used...

One can dream can't he? But it shows, just becuase a car has four doors, doesn't mean it can't do 0-60 in 4.6 seconds with a top speed of 200 mph!

Heck, my '95 Aurora does 170mph (thanks to a little help from a dealership friend, hehe) with a good 0-60 of 6 seconds, and it is gorgeous...









But, sports car is not the same in all eyes. Sure was cheap though, only paid 1800 for this car! Ah, but none of these are said contenders in your search...

 

[pseudobrit]

how is the Nascar point invalid? you telling me a name means nothing?

That is correct.

doesn't matter what people think is a sports car? that's all that matters! if it's a sports car to you, then it's a sports car, case closed. it's all relative...

Having the camry name in nascar helps it become more "sporty". why else would they call it a camry then? it's marketing.

Perception is not reality. A sports car is a sports car and nothing else is a sports car. The idea of a "sporty" car is pure marketing puff. You can take a Buick Regal, rebody it and slap a Ferrari badge on and it wouldn't be a sports car.

If the determination was left up to the mindset of the owner, every 17 year-old driving a Civic DX with a CF hood has a sports car.

 

[ErikCLDR]

i do believe Ford and GM still aren't up to par with the toyotas and hondas. you really think so? yeah, they might have improved some, but i wouldn't buy one.



you can say that, but i don't see cars looking like the pic i just posted everywhere. yeah, there are tons of old camrys and stuff, but not many that look like that.

and since when does "sporty" = "rare"?

I agree with you on that GM and Ford are on par with toyota and honda. Personally I think Honda has the best styling out of all of them. GM I think has good reliability, my dad owned 3 suburbans and never had an issues with them. I know plenty of people that stand by their fords. GM and Ford have stepped up to the plate but unfortunately it's their name at this point that I think is hurting them. Supposedly toyota's reliability is beginning to drop.

In my mind, a camry is a camry is a camry is a camry. Try to make it look "cool, sporty, etc" and it just looks stupid. Its a family sedan, its not going to be fun to drive like a real sports car.

Since when does sporty = rare... since when did I say that? I said a sports car is rare. Thats because a sports car is usually impractical and/or expensive so not that many people buy them. That is why a Toyota Camry is considered not a sports car. I should also mention the Camry has fwd, 4 doors, and an image of a just an average persons car.

How many S2000's, Porches, Z4's, etc driving around, not many. I live in New England so you see very few because of the climate, but I would be willing to bet there are a lot more Camrys in the world then there are true sports cars.

Really the definition of a sports car is a 2 door, 2 seater, with rear wheel drive. I suppose you can omit the 2 seater option but really, a sports car is only supposed to have two seats.

I think there needs to be a line drawn between sports car and sporty car.

 

[pseudobrit]

I think there needs to be a line drawn between sports car and sporty car.

A sports car has not been compromised by and gives the least amount of concession to comfort and daily usability. Sports cars are rare because no one wants to have to suffer with them, so they buy what should be considered a GT and call it a sports car.

 

[quagmire]

I agree with you on that GM and Ford are on par with toyota and honda. Personally I think Honda has the best styling out of all of them. GM I think has good reliability, my dad owned 3 suburbans and never had an issues with them. I know plenty of people that stand by their fords. GM and Ford have stepped up to the plate but unfortunately it's their name at this point that I think is hurting them. Supposedly toyota's reliability is beginning to drop.

He is saying GM and Ford is still not on par with Toyota and Honda. Anyway, it was bound to happen. You can not grow as fast as Toyota is growing and not expect quality problems. Will Toyota recover? Probably. But, what really disgusts me about Toyota is that they are hiding behind the Prius to mask up their latest gas guzzlers. Not to mention Toyota blames the driver for the problems of the car......

 

[walangij]

I own the new VW GTI and it is a very quick, every day sports car that is very quick with mods and even w/o mods and DSG. the 2.0T engine is bulletproof, won many awards in europe, QC is very high on this car. safe, reliable, fantastic sense of community (like MR), fun to drive, quick

The MS3 is also a good option, a lot snappier/faster. Fast, fun, reliability is improving!

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 1 series coupe.
Those aside, if I were you I'd get the new BMW 1 series! OMG, the 135 is very fast and refined w/ a Twin turbo! but maybe a little more than you're willing to pay, the lower 128i is still quick, not slow at all. Should be around your range: 26k around abouts.

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/futurevehicles/new1?source=NEW1FVTOPNAV
brand spanking new, BMW quaility, fun to drive, fast

Also, the mini-cooper S is a FANTASTIC car to drive, super fun, insanely awesome suspension (can take corners better than some supercars). fun to drive, great community, quick, cute


There's a lot of options in your range, if you're looking for reliability then buy new, not a used car b/c especially with a "sports car" it was probably abused quite a lot in its hayday.


The RX-8's engine has had some problems, a friend owns one and one thing is that it sure does like to burn up oil like crazy, a quart every 1-2k miles. It's a nice car though, quick but not as fast as I expected it to be, interior is kinda not amazing too.

My brother's roomate in college last year had the IS RWD 250. I have to say it is a very nice car, fantastic interior trim and I love the styling, but it is not a car that's fast. It's kinda fun to drive, but it drives more like a family car then a sports car.

My suggestions:

Go to VW Dealer, test drive both the 6spd and DSG GTI.
Find Mazda dealer and test drive RX8 and MS3 if you can find a place that'll let you test drive one.
Go to Mini dealer, test drive Mini Cooper S.
Go to Toyota Dealer, test drive what people have suggested.
Go to Lexus Dealer, test drive IS250 RWD.
Check out BMW dealer about 1 series.
Go to Subaru Dealer, test drive WRX.

From there make your decision, I was told from a young age to always test drive multiple cars before making any conclusions or decisions.
You'll be in a better decision after driving all these cars in making your decision. When you buy a car, you should obviously be buying the car you want (and what the other 2 who have a say of course). To find out what you want, test drive, test drive, test drive cars that are in the same category as you're looking, even though you're not interested, will help you understand what you're looking for (and plus its fun!). If none of those catch your fancy, then I'd start to look at used cars.



BTW, German cars are not as "unreliable" as people say, they are just expensive to fix when things go awry which make these times more prominent in peoples minds.

 

[3nm]

but i think it all depends on how you define a "sports car." while the IS is nice to drive, i felt that the car is geared towards the luxury side (polished, yet boring) with the muted engine and all the electronic nannies. the saleswoman was actually bashing the "harshness" of the germans when i was test driving it. but it's a lexus after all, and the quality is definitely there. if you want some luxury, how about a CPO CTS-V? it's the only caddy that i'd ever drive, debadge the car and it's a sleeper. though i can't remember how much those cost nowadays.

The Holden Monaro.

2nd on a CPO GTO, another sleeper w/ lots of interior space (except trunk) and you can actually seat four in this coupe. make sure to get an '05+, which has an LS2 engine w/ ~400 hp and ~400 lb-ft torque. the only things i don't like about the GTO are the dated platform (cruiser-like handling), possible strut rub and the rear spoiler. also, the car is pretty hard to launch with that much power (unless you get the 4-spd auto).

i don't usually recommend domestic cars, but another option is the RWD pontiac G8 V8, though a manual will not be out until much later in '08. rumor has it that GM is still trying to figure out how to shut off half of the engine when it's teamed w/ a manual.

as for imports, my votes go to legacy spec.B and mazdaspeed 6. both are reasonably priced considering they handle very well out of the box w/ many options. the only thing is that the 4-bangers lack torque until you rev the engine. (torque peak at 3.6k rpm for the spec.B and 3k rpm for the 6). the S60R is a similar offering from sweden. while it may not be as quick as a 335, M3, S4, or RS4 off the line, it's definitely more understated and total sleeper (did i mention i like sleepers? ) . with a little tweak, the S60R is quite a monster. there's a video showing how a modded S60R pulls away from an E46 convertible on the roll.

edit:

Do you want a unique sports car with enough space for five people and all of their stuff will fit in the trunk, breathing aloud with a v10 engine putting out a massive amount of horsepower. It's equaled between luxury and performance, with looks that just make you want to cry becuase you really want one.

I got one car for you...

http://sowiesonietleuk.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/maserati-quattroporte.jpg

Too bad it's a bit out of your price range, at about 100,000.00 USD new and about 80,000.00 USD used...

blah... the quattroporte is one of those ultimate trophy wife/husband's driving machines. if it's all about hauling and 0-60, i'd get a TBSS or GC SRT-8 for less than half the price and spend some money on mods. then invest the rest to get a nissan GT-R. and i'd probably still have some change left to mount a camera on the sleeper truck to capture that priceless moment of beating an euro "sports sedan," aka the "looks that just make you want to cry because you really want one."

 

[twoodcc]

Perception is not reality. A sports car is a sports car and nothing else is a sports car. The idea of a "sporty" car is pure marketing puff. You can take a Buick Regal, rebody it and slap a Ferrari badge on and it wouldn't be a sports car.

If the determination was left up to the mindset of the owner, every 17 year-old driving a Civic DX with a CF hood has a sports car.

i'm sorry, but prove yourself. define "sports car". you can't. it can be whatever anybody wants it to be

 

[twoodcc]

He is saying GM and Ford is still not on par with Toyota and Honda. Anyway, it was bound to happen. You can not grow as fast as Toyota is growing and not expect quality problems. Will Toyota recover? Probably. But, what really disgusts me about Toyota is that they are hiding behind the Prius to mask up their latest gas guzzlers. Not to mention Toyota blames the driver for the problems of the car......

you are right, Toyota is growing and the quality is slipping a little. but i think they are still great. i actually believe if you take care of a car, any car will last - for the most part. there are lemons.

but i have to disagree about the gas guzzlers. the new Tundra gets 20 mpg hwy with 381 horsepower. better than the old engine with only 270 horsepower, at only 14 (city)and 18 (hwy)mpg.

 

[mahashel]

I own the new VW GTI and it is a very quick, every day sports car that is very quick with mods and even w/o mods and DSG. the 2.0T engine is bulletproof, won many awards in europe, QC is very high on this car. safe, reliable, fantastic sense of community (like MR), fun to drive, quick

Ooooh.. You're not helping my GTi lust.
I've also read up on the twincharger that iGav mentioned earlier in the thread. Why can't the USA get this car as a compliment to the GTi? I'd love to take it for a spin.

My suggestions:
Go to VW Dealer, test drive both the 6spd and DSG GTI.
Find Mazda dealer and test drive RX8 and MS3 if you can find a place that'll let you test drive one.
Go to Mini dealer, test drive Mini Cooper S.
Go to Toyota Dealer, test drive what people have suggested.
Go to Lexus Dealer, test drive IS250 RWD.
Check out BMW dealer about 1 series.
Go to Subaru Dealer, test drive WRX.
From there make your decision, I was told from a young age to always test drive multiple cars before making any conclusions or decisions.

Hear! Hear!
The only car I'd add to that list is a Mustang. I don't think it's at the "high end" of the list of prospects by any means, but they are really nimble and powerful cars (for a domestic). Worth a shot, just for some more perspective if nothing else.

BTW, German cars are not as "unreliable" as people say, they are just expensive to fix when things go awry which make these times more prominent in peoples minds.

I second this.
I love my turbo Jetta. It is a frightening experience when paying the bill for the typical little maintenance issues that crop up, since european cars are expensive to fix. However, the number of necessary trips to the repair shop are *lower* that any of the domestics I've owned over the years.

As for the "what is a sports car" debate, I agree with the "sport vs. sporty" camp. Any car can be made "sporty". Some are more garish than others (Corolla S, anyone?). blech..
A true sports car is stereotypically uncomfortable, tiny, impractical, terrifyingly expensive to fix, and styled radically differently than the mainstream "get me from point A to point B" vehicles. Taking this definition of a sports car and making it all based on perspective does indeed make every teenager with a Geo Metro convinced they own a "sports car", which is completely ridiculous.
To me, there are three types of people in this debate:
1) people who drive a sports car
2) people who don't want a sports car
3) people who wished they drove a sports car. (they can make some pretty wild leaps of reason to cope with the fact that they don't actually currently drive a sports car)
I'm in camp #3. LOL