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Looking for a Sports car. Help.

Be sure to check out the six speed Saab 9-3 Aeros, which has been significantly redesigned this year. It will kill an IS 250. Don't know about an RX-8 but I believe those RX-8s are really low in the torque department. As for reliability... well my Saab just hit 132,000 miles and looks and runs spectacular, although it's a 9-5 not a 9-3.

wallpaper93s_2c.jpg

If you wait a few months the all wheel drive, 280 horse and 295 ft-lb version will be in the United States. It's getting great reviews in Europe.

http://www.newrossecho.ie/news/story.asp?j=27739&cat=motoring
http://www.canadiandriver.com/roadtest/08_9-3.htm
 
mahashel said:
Ooooh.. You're not helping my GTi lust. :D
I've also read up on the twincharger that iGav mentioned earlier in the thread. Why can't the USA get this car as a compliment to the GTi? I'd love to take it for a spin.

I second this.
I love my turbo Jetta. It is a frightening experience when paying the bill for the typical little maintenance issues that crop up, since european cars are expensive to fix. However, the number of necessary trips to the repair shop are *lower* that any of the domestics I've owned over the years.
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Sorry about the GTi lust, I love it, makes my boring drive everyday quite fun (especially when compared to the 04 accord and old buick park avenue I used to make the trip in lol). The Golf GT supercharged/turbocharged is a sweet car, wish they'd bring it over too!!!

For the sake of the OP, here's a compiled list of cars suggested minus all the definitions of what a sports car actually is and with some other suggestions and relative prices [some above what OP wants to spend] (taken from edmunds.com and KBB):


Audi A3 - 25.5k (same engine as GLI/GTI, 2.0 Turbo, but more refined interior)
BMW 1 Series -26k starting
Certified Pre-Owned CTS-V - anywhere between 30-40k
Certified Pre-Owned Pontiac GTO - anywhere 21-30K
New Pontiac G8
036618.1-lg.jpg
(coming very soon and beautiful for a domestic!) -27k
Ford Mustang (even though OP ruled out already) - 20k
New 2008 Accord V6
2-2008-honda-accord-coupe-concept.jpg
-23k
Lexus IS 250 RWD -26k
Mini Cooper S -21k
Mazda RX8 -27k
Mazdaspeed 3 -22k
Mazdaspeed 6 -28k
Nissan Altima Coupe - 19k
Nissan Sentra-R Spec V - 20k
Saab 9-3 Aero - 26K for base, as corrected by dpaanlka 36k for aero.
Subaru WRX -26k
Subaru Legacy GT - 29k, non turboed is 25k
Volkswagen GTI - 22K
Volkswagen GLI (throw this one in there, sedan version of GTI) - 24K
Volvo C30 - around 23k starting

Used list:

Mercedes C Class 04-06 (even some 07)- 20-30k
Used German cars in general 04-06 -20-30k for some very nice used cars


People want to add or edit go ahead, hope this helps.
 
twoodcc said:
but i have to disagree about the gas guzzlers. the new Tundra gets 20 mpg hwy with 381 horsepower. better than the old engine with only 270 horsepower, at only 14 (city)and 18 (hwy)mpg.
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Um, the Tundra with the 5.7L gets 14/18 on 2WD models. None of them show 20MPG highway. The Silverado 1500 gets 15/20 with both the 4.3L V6 and 5.3L V8 on 2WD models. That's with 315HP on the 5.3L.
BiTurboMunkie said:
as for imports, my votes go to legacy spec.B and mazdaspeed 6. both are reasonably priced considering they handle very well out of the box w/ many options. the only thing is that the 4-bangers lack torque until you rev the engine.
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The spec.B has peak torque at 3.6kRPM.
 
How many cars?

Something else besides "What's a Sports Car?"

land_speed(6964)r.jpg


... is that the OP (& responses) appear to be assuming that he's only going to own one car.

My toy car is an old Porsche 911...cost me under $20K and you can't argue that its not a sports car :D

However, its not my daily driver.

A daily driver needs to cope with wet days, cold days, snow, ice, misery...and be very reliable. For me personally, this means that I'm not going to drop any cute aftermarket Mods into my daily driver.

So when it comes to recreational automotive, there's got to be this safety net of what you're going to do when its necessary (versus "fun") to drive somewhere.

Next, there's going to be some elements of product choice that are generally emotional, but have had some basis somewhere - - just like how there's Mustang vs. Camaro camps, we can also see preferences for European (German) versus Japanese (versus XYZ), as there are some generalities regarding automotive design philosophies. These probably need to be sorted out before trying to narrow the list. Personally, my preference is for European, and the only recommendation I can make here is to jump NOW, because the 2008 prices were fixed on older {Dollar - Euro} exchange rates, and these cars are gong to be easily 10% more expensive next year.


-hh
 
Counterfit said:
Um, the Tundra with the 5.7L gets 14/18 on 2WD models. None of them show 20MPG highway. The Silverado 1500 gets 15/20 with both the 4.3L V6 and 5.3L V8 on 2WD models. That's with 315HP on the 5.3L.
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Umm, i have seen a 2007 4x2 5.7L with the 6-speed transmission say on the sticker 20 mpg hwy. i saw it with my own eyes at the toyota dealership. give a link saying otherwise?

pseudobrit said:
You're right about that in a way. It can be whatever anyone wants it to be if they don't mind being wrong.

Sports cars:
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i know i'm right. you can call those sports cars if you want. but again, give me a definition of what a sports car is
 
walangij said:
Sorry about the GTi lust, I love it, makes my boring drive everyday quite fun (especially when compared to the 04 accord and old buick park avenue I used to make the trip in lol). The Golf GT supercharged/turbocharged is a sweet car, wish they'd bring it over too!!!

For the sake of the OP, here's a compiled list of cars suggested minus all the definitions of what a sports car actually is and with some other suggestions and relative prices [some above what OP wants to spend] (taken from edmunds.com and KBB):


Audi A3 - 25.5k (same engine as GLI/GTI, 2.0 Turbo, but more refined interior)
BMW 1 Series -26k starting
Certified Pre-Owned CTS-V - anywhere between 30-40k
Certified Pre-Owned Pontiac GTO - anywhere 21-30K
New Pontiac G8(coming very soon and beautiful for a domestic!) -27k
Ford Mustang (even though OP ruled out already) - 20k
New 2008 Accord V6 -23k
Lexus IS 250 RWD -26k
Mini Cooper S -21k
Mazda RX8 -27k
Mazdaspeed 3 -22k
Mazdaspeed 6 -28k
Nissan Altima Coupe - 19k
Nissan Sentra-R Spec V - 20k
Saab 9-3 Aero - 26K for base, as corrected by dpaanlka 36k for aero.
Subaru WRX -26k
Subaru Legacy GT - 29k, non turboed is 25k
Volkswagen GTI - 22K
Volkswagen GLI (throw this one in there, sedan version of GTI) - 24K


People want to add or edit go ahead, hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Is it ever worth buying a European car new? Buy a year old one and I bet you could find one in the $20's. I was at a Land Rover dealer where they had a $52,000 LR3 dropped down to $40,000 because it was a 2006 left over that was on display in the showroom and had 300 miles on it. $12,000!!

Anyways, my mom had a saab like 14 years ago- it was a 9000 turbo. It was a piece of crap. Tons of people have them around here and seem to love them. Parents are buying them for their kids. I know at least 5 kids under the age of 18 with saabs in my town. I've been in my friends 2003.5 9.5 2.3t and it was a pretty fun car.
 
ErikCLDR said:
it was a 9000 turbo. It was a piece of crap.
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I don't know if I mentioned but I have over 132,000 miles on my 2001 9-5 Aero and I love it its more reliable than any car me or my parents have owned in my entire life. I can't say enough about it.
 
dpaanlka said:
I don't know if I mentioned but I have over 132,000 miles on my 2001 9-5 Aero and I love it its more reliable than any car me or my parents have owned in my entire life. I can't say enough about it.
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That was before GM bought saab. I forgot to say how their reliability might be different.
 
ErikCLDR said:
That was before GM bought saab. I forgot to say how their reliability might be different.
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If that 9000 was a four cylinder, then it and my car have essentially the same engine... mine being somewhat enhanced, but still based on the old Saab H engine dating from the 70s.
 
twoodcc said:
give me a definition of what a sports car is
Click to expand...

sure:
a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

A sports car is an automobile designed for performance driving. Most sports cars are rear-wheel drive, have two seats, two doors, and are designed for precise handling, acceleration, and aesthetics. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports car
Click to expand...

A Camry is an automobile designed for moving groceries. All Camrys are front-wheel drive, have five seats, four doors, and are designed for soccer moms, retirees, and other people who can't afford sports cars.

In all seriousness all sports cars MUST have either rear or four wheel drive. That point is NOT up for discussion. As mentioned before, they must also be impractical enough to not be common. If you see one everyday, chances are it's not a sports car. Another thing that has been mentioned is that sporty does not equal sports car.

I have to admit, when I started reading your arguments that a Camry was a sports car, I thought you were kidding. You might as well argue the drifting performance of a minivan.

Oh, and bringing up Nascar doesn't help your case. yikes :eek:
 
adroit said:
That point is NOT up for discussion.
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I agree a Camry is a rather silly contender for a sports car, but if you're going to get all anal about it, I'll take this opportunity to speak on behalf of the OP and change his requirement to a sporting car, as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car, since he/she is unlikely to find a true sports car for $26,000.

Please forgive us all for mixing up sports car and sporting car.
 
I second the BMW 1-series and the Audi A3 and would add to the list of recommendations a 2005 model Mercedes C230 or C320 sports coupe -- very spiffy and extremely reliable 4-seaters, and should be <20k by now.

Oh, and has noone suggested the new Volvo C30 yet?
$22,700 MSRP, turbo charger, very cool car.
 
adroit said:
sure:


A Camry is an automobile designed for moving groceries. All Camrys are front-wheel drive, have five seats, four doors, and are designed for soccer moms, retirees, and other people who can't afford sports cars.

In all seriousness all sports cars MUST have either rear or four wheel drive. That point is NOT up for discussion. As mentioned before, they must also be impractical enough to not be common. If you see one everyday, chances are it's not a sports car. Another thing that has been mentioned is that sporty does not equal sports car.

I have to admit, when I started reading your arguments that a Camry was a sports car, I thought you were kidding. You might as well argue the drifting performance of a minivan.

Oh, and bringing up Nascar doesn't help your case. yikes :eek:
Click to expand...

i guess i like to argue things that most people don't believe :rolleyes:

go back to the OP's first post. he says he wanted 4-doors. that's why i even brought up camry. "4-doors and reliable". based on that, doesn't get much better than the camry.

my point was that the camry has changed drastically, as far as looks and performance. and it has. i posted a pic for the new looks, and 6.1 seconds 0-60 isn't bad, i don't care who you think you are.

and being rare again is no argument for a sports car either. if you lookup the word rare, it doesn't say sports car. it's just that your real "sports cars" cost more, and so less people buy them.
 
So here's a different kind of solution to this problem...

Buy a cheaper "sporty" car that is relatively inexpensive, and put a couple thousand dollars (money you saved by buying the cheaper car) into aftermarket performance upgrades.
I'm considering keeping my 1.8T Jetta, since I'll own it outright in a couple months, and begin putting money into upgrading it. No longer under warranty, so I'm not risking anything in that regard, and putting as much as 4-5K into it is cheaper than buying a new car. Perhaps not as good an investment, since performance parts don't really raise the resale value of a vehicle (and in some cases will actually lower it), but it is an option.
Example: buy an older V6 Honda Accord, a used Jetta, a new/used Scion tC, Mazda3, etc.. for <20K, then put 5K into performance upgrades.
I don't believe that this will in *ANY* way buy you a "sports car", but it just might be an attainable ticket into a ride with the level of performance you're hoping for, whilst maintaining the "daily driver" aspect of the vehicle.

Does anybody here have experience in this "tuner" sort of approach? I'd be interested in this kind of solution, myself, since I'm not sure I'm going to want another huge car payment so soon after finally getting my VW paid off. :eek:
Just my 16 cents. (this "weak dollar" crap sucks) :p
 
dpaanlka said:
Yes... it leaves you with a fast car that feels cheap.
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Probably because it IS cheap. lol :p

I've not gone down the tuner road yet, but am interested in hearing from other people who have. The OP wanted a fast car that will seat 4. Might be cheaper to buy a sport coupe and improve it, rather than putting out the big money for a stock sportier car that they'd have to somehow stuff 4 people into.
As for the "cheap" aspect, I can see how ricing-out an old Civic or equivalent could seem really flimsy; but tweaking an old Audi/VW, or improving a less expensive new car (like the tC), might offset the cheap sensation.
 
I have to give my vote for the MazdaSpeed3. It beat out every car in it's class in most reviews; beat the GTI, Civic Si, etc. I have a Mazda3, not the speed and I love, I can't imagine what it would be like to have the extra 100hp. I'm tall, 6'1" 200lbs and I drive it comfortably. It can sit 4-5 but the back leg room is not the best, but it is compact car.
 
Well the mazdaspeed3 looks real good too. The only rx8 was just sold and when I inquired about when the next one would come in was, and I quote, "Sometime." :mad:
 
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