Lost $20,000 Apple stock

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by anirudh0802, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. anirudh0802 macrumors newbie

    Apr 5, 2010
    So about 4 months ago, my dad's my portfolio had about $20,000 in Apple stock. Now, I have been playing with stocks for about 4 years. A short while after he bought the stocks, he and I got into an argument about which stocks to buy. I told him that go with this one stock (which is now in pink sheets, it was Equitorian something). Just on that one stock alone, short term gain was crazy, but then it crashed and on the way downhill, my dad lost money just because I managed his stock portfolio.

    We had Apple stock before that and now my dad and I do not act the same anymore. I know I lost him a lot of money and he lectured me that if we had kept the Apple stock, it would have benefitted us in the long run.

    I feel really bad and do not know what to do. Does anyone have an idea on how I can mend my relationship with my dad?

  2. gibbz macrumors 68030

    May 31, 2007
    Honest and frank discussions often suck in the short-term, but pay untold dividends (sorry, pun really not intended) in the long-term. I'd say just get everything in the open and go from there.
  3. tdream macrumors 65816

    Jan 15, 2009
    Playing.... that's the operative word. It's not a game.

    Apologise to your Dad, and get on with doing good things in your life. Don't coerce people into taking chances with money that's not yours.
  4. SchneiderMan macrumors G3


    May 25, 2008
  5. phoobo macrumors regular

    Sep 13, 2008
    Your Dad is mistaken

    It probably doesn't help to say this, but your Dad cannot say for certain that he would have sold his AAPL here. If he had, then your portfolio would have been worth more today. But more likely he would have been "married" to the stock and held. You don't know where AAPL will be in a year. What if (God forbid) Jobs dies and it loses 50% of its value in 3 months? What if the whole market crashes--even bigger this time than last time?

    My point is that this is all a psychological game. No one has complete information on the market -- and on top of that you have to throw in all these variables related to the timing of human decisions, and the guesswork involved in buys and sells.

    Money tied up in the stock market *does not exist* until you actually sell, because radical things can happen from one day to the next.

    Your father should forgive you. 20k is not a lot of money in the broad scheme of things.
  6. gnasher729 macrumors P6


    Nov 25, 2005
    It has happened and it is now in the past. You can't change it. You and your dad both have to live with it. Your dad seems to think "I would rather have lots of money from my stocks than very little money". Which is correct, but he can't have that. The money is gone. What he should think now is "I'd rather have no money but a good relationship with my son than having no money but a bad or no relationship with my son". And that is his decision. He can have it either way. The money is gone and cannot be rescued. The relationship can be rescued. Therefore, you shouldn't cry any tears after the money, because that doesn't change a thing, instead concentrate on what you have and can either lose or regain.

    Now explaining that to your dad is difficult if it comes from you. Show him this post if you like.

    But some advice that I would give to anyone is not to make decisions on the stock market for anyone else. You can tell them your opinion as long as it is clear that this is just your opinion, or you can tell them what you are doing and they may copy it at their own risk, but don't try to persuade them and don't make decisions for them. As you found out, it leads to trouble.
  7. chrono1081 macrumors 604


    Jan 26, 2008
    Isla Nublar

    Business and family never mix, and if it does you're obviously in the mafia.

    The only thing I can suggest is just talk about it. Money is one of the stupidest things to fight over. Yes, there is going to be the initial frustration but if after several months he's not talking to you then sadly you can see what was more important to him.

    Hopefully thats not the case and he IS talking to you, but really the damage is done, money was lost, and theres nothing anyone can do about it. That is the nature of the stock market.

    I see it happen to guys I work with all the time. They dump all kinds of money into stocks, and me, I don't own any stock and never will, and my savings keeps growing while theirs is on a rollercoaster ride.
  8. ntrigue macrumors 68040


    Jul 30, 2007
    I had $8800 to invest in Apple at $88 and opted to invest in my brother's business/health problems. All gone now, we don't get along. DO NOT mix family and money.
  9. striatedglutes macrumors 6502

    Feb 22, 2009
    A few points...

    1) Both of you should have known you could lose all of the money at any point in time. You either accept that risk and go ahead and invest/trade, or you stay out. Further, part of accepting that risk is not being angry if you lose money. We're only human, and things can get heated; however, I would hope that your dad would understand and eventually forgive.

    2) It is useless to play what-ifs when it comes to the market. Make your decisions, learn from their outcomes (besides obvious 20/20 "that was dumb" hindsight), and move on.

    3) Don't buy a company if you can't even remember their name?

    4) Should this thread be in the community forums?
  10. macchiato2009 macrumors 65816

    Aug 14, 2009

    buying stocks is not a game

    even if you did that for 4 years, doesn't mean you are an expert

    my advice: mind your own business and don't manage to give advices to your dad

    with no doubt, he can deal with his portfolio without your help

    especially considering that your "expertise" made him lose money
  11. striatedglutes macrumors 6502

    Feb 22, 2009
    Google text ad at the bottom of this thread...

    "Ads by Google
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  12. miles01110 macrumors Core


    Jul 24, 2006
    The Ivory Tower (I'm not coming down)
    Did you sell the Apple stock at a profit? If so you should re-title your somewhat pointless thread "Sold $20,000 Apple stock" because you didn't lose anything.

    Have you sold whatever this stock is at a loss? If you're selling at a huge loss that's pretty stupid. If you haven't sold it yet, you technically haven't lost any money.
  13. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem


    Feb 19, 2005
    Well, I think you and your father need to suck this one up because I would never give my child $20k in stock to play with. Never. Lessons learned for your father, that's for sure.

    Parents want to think their children are uber smart. They want to have faith in their children but sometimes they put too much faith in them and this is what happens.

    Mend ways, it's not worth being at odds with your father for the rest of your life.
  14. racer1441 macrumors 68000

    Jul 3, 2009
    Give him the $20,000 you cost him.

    Only way to make it right is to make it right.
  15. wordoflife macrumors 604


    Jul 6, 2009
    I think you and your dad should just forget about it, and move on in life. There are honestly better things to be doing than this.

    Life is short, don't waste it.
  16. Queso Suspended

    Mar 4, 2006
    Trading stocks is a form of gambling, albeit a more educated variant. If you and/or Dad cannot handle that you may occasionally lose, you shouldn't gamble in the first place. Pick something nice and safe with lower potential yields instead.

    He also made the choice to listen to you. If he had doubts about selling his AAPL that was the time he should have said no and stuck to his guns. Now he's blaming you because at that point he made the wrong choice. Unless you forced him at gunpoint he has no right to do that.

    In short, both of you should chalk it up to experience and move on.
  17. Kingcodez macrumors 6502


    May 13, 2009
    It's probably the same on both sides of the coin.
    Your dad is also probably dissappointed not so much at losing the money, but at letting this issue drive a stake between you two. Like an out of control spiral. The money started, the feelings about the money carried it on, and the guilt of having those feelings is what remains.

    Ultimately it's his fault for moving the money, but he could simply be guilty for having these feelings of animosity towards his kid.

    Just suck it up and tell him you'll make it up to him, and try to get some of that lost money back.
  18. Gasu E. macrumors 601

    Gasu E.

    Mar 20, 2004
    Not far from Boston, MA.
    Personally I think you are better off if you never speak to your dad again. OK, that's probably not reasonable, but here's my point. He should never have laid on you the reponsibility of managing his stocks. You are a rank amateur, and if $20K is a lot of money to him it should have been in a diversified portfolio, not a single stock. But that's his bad, not yours. He seems to be the kind of person who cannot take responsibility for his own bad choices. Sucks for you that he prefers plays the blame game.
  19. Gasu E. macrumors 601

    Gasu E.

    Mar 20, 2004
    Not far from Boston, MA.
    Only if you are insane or have a gambling addiction. Stop trying to play investment advisor to you dad. You will only relive this horror again and again if you attempt this. There is a lesson here and you both need to learn it.
  20. bentmywookie macrumors regular

    Nov 6, 2002
    Palo Alto

    I think this is just a lesson learned the hard way, as others have pointed out. In my opinion, there are a few key takeaway points from your experience:

    1) You probably shouldn't give stock advice. At least not until you are an intelligent, well-research, thorough investor (and that requires lots of time and effort more than anything else). If you want to play with stocks that's fine and doesn't hurt anyone as long as you're not prognosticating and giving advice to others.

    2) Also like others have pointed out, I don't consider money in stocks to be actual money until it's sold. A lot of people don't get their head around that though and, in my opinion, don't have the right mentally to be playing around with stocks.

    3) Life can be short, unpredictable, and fragile. If you and your father become estranged as a result of this, I'm sure a few years down the road, if not less, $20k would seem like a small amount to have to lose for a healthy relationship with each other.

    You made an honest mistake. It was a stupid one definitely (not trying to be harsh), but an honest one. Be honest and apologize. And if you can make it up to him little by little, then do so as well. In the grand scheme of things, $20,000 is pretty darn low on the list.

    Hope it all works out.
  21. duncanapple macrumors 6502

    Jun 12, 2008
    I think a few people have hinted toward this, but the main argument I would make is no one (well, no one with just public information) can beat the market in the long run. You always stand to lose (or gain) in the short term on any investment no matter what stock you buy. That's why a smart investor decides upon a risk level and then chooses a portfolio well diversified and that reflects that given level of risk.

    Not to be blunt, but if loosing that 20K stings - you likely shouldn't be trading individual stocks yourself. Plus, 20K could be a relative number. Was it 20K on 100K invested? Or was 20K the entire portfolio? I hope not the whole portfolio or you are just foolish to put it all in any one thing, esp if you are not willing to lose it all.

    My advice if you want to play day trader is to pick a number you are comfortable with losing - say $1000 or something, and play away with it. But anything other than a professionally managed and at the very least well diversified portfolio on money you cant afford to lose (ie retirement) long term is asking for trouble.

    As for your Dad - shame on him for not realizing all the above. He should man up to his decision to let you talk him into this. Unless you stole this money or held a gun to his head he made the final "okay."
  22. H00513R macrumors 6502a


    Mar 12, 2010
    Apologize if you feel like it and move forward. If both you and your dad were in the market together, then surely you both assumed the risk of investing. Just use it as a learning lesson and good luck with future trading!
  23. pilotError macrumors 68020


    Apr 12, 2006
    Long Island
    Sounds like you got caught up in a pump and dump. You know, spread the word that this is going to go, everybody jumps in, principals take their money and run, and all you suckers are left holding worthless certificates.

    Most of the replies were dead on.

    1. Never invest what you can't afford to lose.
    2. Never trade for your relatives. Give opinions, let them make the decisions.
    3. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. It's a rare opportunity to have a penny stock or small cap gain huge percentages in stock price and hold it there. When that happens, its because its a pump and dump scam or the insiders know something.

    In the latter case, you would never have access to the stock, as the larger corps would make a direct investment.

    You need to learn to pick a target gain or loss percentage and stick to it. So when it starts to tank, you get out quickly and take your loss. Never hang on and pray its going to bounce back. Sell, you can always buy it back later.
  24. Jaro65 macrumors 68040


    Mar 27, 2009
    Seattle, WA
    Sorry you had to learn the hard way.
  25. rhsgolfer33 macrumors 6502a

    Jan 6, 2006
    I should sign up for that, could have a few good stocks to short.

    Yeah, I'd never give my parents investment advice unless I were good enough to start my own fund and get other outsiders to give me money as well. Not worth the headaches that result. Plus I'd take a 2% management fee and 30% of the profits, so I'd be a little pricey for my parents. :D

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