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LOTR: The Ring of Power (2022-)
- Thread starter Huntn
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To add to JB Goode's post I always thought of them as a metaphysical device to amplify powers (from the Valar?) - but good ones like healing, knowledge etc. But they could also amplify less desirable stuff in weaker races (Men, Dwarves etc). Plus the Noldor just liked making wonderous stuff, a sort of self indulgence, like scientists that create stuff to push the boundaries of their knowledge and worry about the consequences afterwards.
Also I think we should bear in mind this is in effect an alternative Anglo-Saxon* heroic tale and ring giving by lords/kings was very, very important in that world. The giving of rings features heavily in Beowulf but it's slippery as to meaning in that it's used in the poem as a kenning (metaphor) for lord/kingship/power. They were though, quite literally, rings of power and were the glue that held the warrior culture together.
“Cyning sceal on healle beagas dælan.”
A king in the hall deals out arm-rings.
If you're interested I also think it's also worth looking at the legend of Wayland the smith - as to my mind that sort of get's under the skin of the Noldor Elves and their love of craft and the consequences it can bring.
* Used in a historical rather than any other sense.
I‘ve realized that after all these years I knew about 20 rings, I knew the one ring, influenced all the others, but all it did for Frodo was to turn him invisible and call attention to himself from the dark forces. Using it beyond invisibility, was likely beyond his abilities or his temperament. It turned Bilbo invisible too, but in that story, and even in the beginning of LOTR, it did not seem to have quite the same effect on him, at least it was not portrayed that way, although he had difficulty giving it up as did Frodo.
And I had no idea of what the status of these rings were at the time of LOTR. It seems obvious that if Sauron wants the master ring, that the others must be in play too. But none of the other rings were shown as being worn by anyone (in books or movie).
But it could also be that primarily, he needed the master ring to insure his continued survival. Sauron who was greatly reduced as anything that might be considered human had invested so much of himself in the Master Ring, that when it was destroyed, he and Mordor imploded.
I’ll assume there is lore for Galadriel chasing Sauron for a long time as portrayed in Rings of Power, but at the tme of LOTR, as compared to this history, she seems oddly detached from this stuggle, no longer on active pursuit, but available to give advice. Maybe at this point after so many centuries, she had given up or retired, or just got tired. Maybe there will be something that will be told in this series to illustrate this change, while Elrond is still in the game during LOTR.
I knew that the 19 Rings were given as gifts, but as someone who did not read beyond LOTR, I did not know the circumstances, who made them, I assumed Sauron, or he was involved somehow and it was not clear to anyone what these rings represented or why accept them?
But here is my thought for Rings of Power, why would Rings that elves made be tied to the master ring? You would have to assume that Sauron would by virtue of being present when the first 3 rings for the Elves were crafted, had to infuse them with his intent. What I question in the show, is that Galadriel knows of his involvement, but because the writers turned having Mithril into life or death for the Elves, “they needed their light replenished”, Galadriel did not stop the process, but knowing that evil was involved, it will be interesting to see how the other rings come to be made.
We know in the history, that despite all these rings being worn, that their effect was overcome by the virtue and counter will of the participants who would be Sauron pawns if he had his way.
From what I recall from the LOTR books the elven rings weren't supposed to have been influenced by the master ring at all, instead they were made in secret or at least without Sauron's involvement. I'm not sure anymore what exactly is being said about them in the film trilogy but I think they do not outright contradict the book lore.
There could be a lot of writers indulgence at play here. As I said I’m not an expert beyond the books I did read, and now faded with those, but this story of how the Elves need Mithril to restore “their light” I assume life force, ie they die without it, is completely new to me. Apparantly in the realm of magic or supernatural, so every elf in Middle Earth needs to wear it to stay alive? Really now. 🤔
One of the online links I previously posted mentioned either a bad elf, or someone impersonating an elf involved in the making of the rings. As presented here, in light of source material, it seems a bit convoluted to me in this specific story, where it was the Mithril or some other magic that made these rings tools of manipulation. And if you say the Elves were not affected, it becomes whatever…just go with the flow or reject it as unworthy.
just go with the flow or reject it as unworthy.
That's the way! 😀 Same to me as with Dune: sticking with the original author's material and ignoring the tie-ins, prequels and follow-ups and all the expanded interpretations that come with that.
I think Mithril was little more than a lightweight metal in the original books, middle earth's titanium if you will. The elven rings did help keeping the elves around from what I remember. Without them the elves would have faded more quickly (but not dropped dead) and I believe Galadriel's one was attributed with enabling her to keep Lorien shielded from the outside world.
Should probably get around to reading the books again one of these days.
So in lore, Mithril helps Elves keep their light? I mgight have to adjust my analysis.🤔
Sleeping on previous comments, here is my latest:
It was so simple to say 19 rings where gifted, with 1 master ring to control the others.
I have not read Tolkien’s other books, but based on this premise, I can easily imagine the master plotter Sauron duping these people with magic rings, and them for whatever reason, not realizing who this person was or not realizing he was a threat.
In this show, if the elves had been fighting him 1000 years prior to the LOTR era, then he would have to use some kind of subterfuge to hand out these gifts, but … so far here, they're not gifts.
So without the benifit of Lore, I question this plot which seems contrary the movie trilogy, in that here the Elves were acting purely in self interest to make their rings, for themselves, for their survival.
The happenstance of the way Galadriel joins up with Sauron in hindsight seems far fetched, why was the master plotter adrift out in the ocean? Had he given up, was him bumping into Galadriel pure chance or planned? If a plan, I’ll imagine:
Well I somehow know she is going to jump ship, so I’ll be out in this big ocean, so I can bump into her, save her, fool her, making her think I’m the deposed King of the South, and act like I am reluctantly going back to Middle Earth, because I know she is going to be involved with my ring plot, although she knows nothing of it, so I’ll be right there to help them make and taint their rings.
Then the icing on the cake, Galadriel discovers who Sauron is and goes ahead and allows the making of not 1 but 3 evil rings “for balance”… really now. 🤔
If you tell me that there is a basis in lore for Elves needing Mithril to keep them alive, I may be more sympathetic to this plot.
It was so simple to say 19 rings where gifted, with 1 master ring to control the others.
I have not read Tolkien’s other books, but based on this premise, I can easily imagine the master plotter Sauron duping these people with magic rings, and them for whatever reason, not realizing who this person was or not realizing he was a threat.
In this show, if the elves had been fighting him 1000 years prior to the LOTR era, then he would have to use some kind of subterfuge to hand out these gifts, but … so far here, they're not gifts.
So without the benifit of Lore, I question this plot which seems contrary the movie trilogy, in that here the Elves were acting purely in self interest to make their rings, for themselves, for their survival.
The happenstance of the way Galadriel joins up with Sauron in hindsight seems far fetched, why was the master plotter adrift out in the ocean? Had he given up, was him bumping into Galadriel pure chance or planned? If a plan, I’ll imagine:
Well I somehow know she is going to jump ship, so I’ll be out in this big ocean, so I can bump into her, save her, fool her, making her think I’m the deposed King of the South, and act like I am reluctantly going back to Middle Earth, because I know she is going to be involved with my ring plot, although she knows nothing of it, so I’ll be right there to help them make and taint their rings.
Then the icing on the cake, Galadriel discovers who Sauron is and goes ahead and allows the making of not 1 but 3 evil rings “for balance”… really now. 🤔
If you tell me that there is a basis in lore for Elves needing Mithril to keep them alive, I may be more sympathetic to this plot.
I think you've nailed it with the above comment, it just doesn't withstand any sort of detailed plot analysis.just go with the flow or reject it as unworthy.
Without the Silmarillion telling a coherent story was always going to be a tall order, and would have challenged a really gifted writing team leave alone the one that wrote this, um, unworthy effort. The idea mentioned earlier in the thread about a series of somewhat disconnected short stories might have been a really interesting thing to do but then it wouldn't have been the multiple series Game of Thrones killer that was required by Amazon. If it was my money I'd now be having a huge rethink...
I don't think so. Pretty sure in lore, mithril is just a metal and this whole thing in the show is a byproduct of imcompetence.
Unless they wired the entire billion-budget to the personal accounts of the showrunners before the start of production and did forget about the no-refunds clause in the contract's fine print we can rest assured that that's what's happening. Apparently Amazon right now is looking to cut costs across the board.
But even if they were swimming in cash right now that rethink would be inevitable after this misfire. Then again, looks like GoT is not so easily repeated by anybody (I binged HotD the other week).
Darth Tulhu
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I love the show. I'm aware that like the movies, it is different from the source material.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS.
It is an ADAPTATION, made for the explicit purpose of driving subscription revenue by reaching the widest audience (hence the ethnic/racial "edits").
I LOVE that they did this. An all-inclusive (call it "woke" if you feel pejorative about it) fantasy world will and has offended some (esp. white Americans), but will appeal to most others.
And keeping it somewhat consistent with the movies makes my LOTR collection more pleasing to me.
I would have loved for the elves to have kept their long hair (even the dark-skinned ones; a black elf with long, braided dreads would be AWESOME), but I actually like the mix of the more battle-ready short hair on the warrior elves.
And I would have DEFINITELY enjoyed Dwarves females to have legit, thick beards.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS.
It is an ADAPTATION, made for the explicit purpose of driving subscription revenue by reaching the widest audience (hence the ethnic/racial "edits").
I LOVE that they did this. An all-inclusive (call it "woke" if you feel pejorative about it) fantasy world will and has offended some (esp. white Americans), but will appeal to most others.
And keeping it somewhat consistent with the movies makes my LOTR collection more pleasing to me.
I would have loved for the elves to have kept their long hair (even the dark-skinned ones; a black elf with long, braided dreads would be AWESOME), but I actually like the mix of the more battle-ready short hair on the warrior elves.
And I would have DEFINITELY enjoyed Dwarves females to have legit, thick beards.
I don’t like those kind of liberties. Carte blanch story telling I guess is fine for the newbs, but it will likely rub those familiar the wrong way. Of all the ways to construct a story of how 19 Rings were given away, 3 to Elves, 7 to Dwarves, and 9 to men, deceiving them, plus 1 secret master Ring, I think they’d have come up with something better than the RoP Plot, which does not follow this premise at all. So what, when the dwarves and men get their rings, the elves will just stay mum and let it happen?I don't think so. Pretty sure in lore, mithril is just a metal and this whole thing in the show is a byproduct of imcompetence.
What really is irritating is the introduction of Mithril as providing a life source to Elves, but in the framework of this story, that is why imo, after knowing the Rings are tainted, Galadriel allows them to be forged, because the Elves need them whether they are evil or not. Her solution to to have 3 rings for balanced evil! Lol. This is stretched. Baw, humbug!
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Well, I've only watched three episodes so far but I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't as bad as I'd feared it would be (so far). It reminds me of the Peter Jackson films to a degree, and for a streaming platform project I think it's been very watchable. I have read the Rings trilogy many times and while I thought the big screen interpretations could have been tighter and less pandering to popcorn audiences (dwarf tossing indeed) they were honourable efforts. I hope I am able to say the same about The Ring Of Power after watching all the first-season episodes. So far so good. As for the creative liberties taken in this production in later episodes, I'll just have to wait and see how I respond. I watched The Wheel Of Time and that was a generally frustrating experience (and I haven't read the books) despite my wanting it to work better than it ultimately did.
Looking forward to what you think about it at the end of Season 1.
The issue as I see it is not production values, they are very good, reportedly very expensive, the acting is good, except I’m not a fan of Galadriel. The issue but about the meat of the story.