Low End PowerMac G5?

[segundo]

Headless Mac, or how I learned to love a single proc PM

Okay, so there are many of you who don't think this would work for you or you think that that this isn't a feasible product. Let me assure you, and any Apple employees out there that may be reading, that this is a viable product for some of us and here is why:

- I have no use for a second processor. I mean none. Would it get used if it was in a system while I was working? Sure, a little, but not enough to justify the extra costs.

- I want to use a KVM with a 20" Apple monitor. I could use one between my powerbook, my powermac, and possibly a pc if I needed to use one for a specific application.

- I want more customization of my system than what can be easily done with the iMac line. I want a combo drive (faster at ripping and burning cd's), I want a fast video card (for games and general graphics speed), I want the ability to have two hard drives installed in a RAID configuration (or just two drives for lots of space). The new iMacs are great but they have limitations based on their design.

So that's a gut reaction to the possible availability of a single proc PM. Definitely welcome as far as I'm concerned.

Let's also remember that whatever was planned for the product line up will most likely start to pop off now because the iMac line was late. This could mean we have a flurry of activity in the coming weeks.

 

[Duane Martin]

Jeebus folks this isn't a mensa question. A $1499 Powermac G5 would benefit anyone who cannot budget a $1999 Powermac but can budget a $1499 one.

Oh, well, that certainly clears up the question. Those people.

but it doesn't address the sub $2k prosumer market that well.

No it doesn't, assuming there is such a market in numbers large enough to justify this machine. This is the concept I am questioning. Saying something does not make it so.

I know the audio guys would love it.

Ah, there we are. That's the market. And I agree, I know a few audio guys who might be interested in this. Most are still running OS 9 because the plug-ins they want have not been written for X yet, and they are forever trying to find used G4s, but anyhow. So, potentially there is a small market. Enough to justify the machine? I say no. That's my opinion, Mensa failure such that I am.

 

[timster]

My 2c:

I think that such a product should have a horizontal "pizza box" form factor. Something like the Macintosh LC II from the early 90s, but with the magic Ive touch. Aluminum pizza box, drool!

Specs: 1.6 GHz, 256 MB or NO memory, FireWire 400 only, entry level nVidia card, replaceable.

Priced at $999. They would sell so quickly they would outstrip iPod sales per quarter! Mac marketshare would double, and these forums would have a *lot* more visitors.

Well, that's what I think. But it's not going to happen as Apple would like to encourage people up to the more "deluxe" units where they can sustain 20-27% margins.

Listen to the conference call at http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/earningsq404/

There is an analyst's question: "Are you going to bring out a lower cost Mac to increase marketshare?"

Answer: "We've looked at it, but frankly we don't think we can make any money there."

I respectfully disagree, but then I can't keep my bedroom tidy, let alone run an $8.5 billion company!

 

[dubbz]

I don't need dual, but I want something that's more expandable than the iMac...so I guess this could be interesting, but not for $1499...

 

[AoWolf]

*imagines Mac rolling off desk*

No no no it will be suspend on 3 legs like a UFO.

 

[~Shard~]

Well, now all you people who have been incessantly complaining for a cheaper headless Mac etc. ad nauseum finally get your wish. All I can say is if this indeed comes out, those people better not complain and they better go out and buy one. I personally don't want this and have no need for it, but I've heard people whining for one for I can't remember how long, so here ya go...

 

[nuckinfutz]

Many times in Apple's past their low end Powermac wasn't a good seller. Mac users tended to ignore the low end unit and the expensive high end and focus on the midrange unit.

A Powermac for $1499 is good even if it's for mindshare only. Think "Powermacs starting at $1499!" banners and the like. Sure it's easy to say "just spend the money on a dual" but $500 gets me a lot of things and will a dual proc really justify the extra expenditure in time savings? That's debatable.

Lowering the cost of entry is always an important thing. It's important to realize that CPU power soon will not be the only metric we use for judging speed. Tiger's reliance on a fast GPU could make a single proc Powermac with a fast card superior to a dual proc Powermac with an entry level card.

This lower cost Powermac also paves the way for Apple's future lineup. Say for instance Apple is ready to ship dual core Powermacs next summer. Well then it would be quite easy to offer something like

$1499- Dual Core 1.8Ghz
$1999- Dual Core 2Ghz
$2499 Dual Core 2.4 x2 (Quad Cores total)
$2999 Dual Core 2.8 x2(Quad Cores total)

This allows Apple to amortize the single socket motherboards but still offer SMP configs and extend the midreange and high end with Quad processing. Why is this important. Because Tiger offers better SMP with fine grain locking and the ability to differentiate between physical versus logical processors. The die has been cast and we might just be see the intermediate steps.

 

[Nermal]

If this is true, I'll buy one almost instantly.

 

[Macmaniac]

I think people are missing the point behind this kind of computer. Finally you can upgrade a graphics card in a sub 2K Mac!!! This is the modding mac we poor gamers have been waiting for! You could get a great GPU in this machine as long as its removable, and with 2 PCI slots you could do so much! This is the long awaited Pizza box mac, I would buy one right away! If it had 4 ram slots, a second HD bay, 2 PCI slots, a 8x AGP slot, I would buy it! Who needs an Apple display? I could get a nice CRT for $180, this is the kind of computer Apple needs!

 

[Phat_Pat]

No no no it will be suspend on 3 legs like a UFO.

not a bad idea...

attached is a very detailed concept of this idea

be amazed at the beauty of my drawing skills

 

[MikeBike]

Many times in Apple's past their low end Powermac wasn't a good seller. Mac users tended to ignore the low end unit and the expensive high end and focus on the midrange unit.

If Apple starts selling to a Bell Shaped Curve, then, they've got the correct price points in place. I believe that's the goal. But, I'm no marketing major.

 

[MikeBike]

Other Good for You / Bad for Me news.

I couldn't convince my sister to get an Apple.
So, I helped her buy a Dell, no, she would only look at Dells, I couldn't get her into an AMD 64 bit core.

P4 3.0 Ghz
1 gig Ram
SATA 160 Hard Drive
Ati X800 something graphics card
WinXP Pro / Sp2 / Norton AV / Internet protection / Firewall / Email check...
Her machine comes up clean in a virus / trogan scan.

And Guess What? It runs like ****.
It's at least 2x SLOWER then my Powerbook G4 1.5 with 1 gig of ram.
It runs like a PIII 500mhz. Lots of Think Time.
Windows users have really been suckered.

- I can't Imagine just how bad a $500 dollar Dell would run.

Other interesting info:
She first called Dell and ordered a machine by phone.
They wanted to charge her $3000 for a piece of Junk that would have cost $2000 if ordered online.
She ordered it.
When I found out I told her to CANCEL the order.
They called back and offered to take $500 off the price of the machine if she'd still accept it. She said NO, They Shipped it Anyway!
She refused delivery.

- Dell has fallen on hard times.
- Buyer Beware of Dell.

 

[rickvanr]

I think it should look just as the other G5's do. Everything that the dual 1.8 is, but a single chip. Plain, simple, and less expensive then a dual.

 

[Centris 650]

Ok,as a married man with 2.1 children (we just found out about #3) with a clamshell ibook that is about dead and on a tight budget THIS is the computer for me! I owned a Bondi iMac and loved it...until I needed to upgrade. I hated selling the WHOLE system, however couldn't afford the powermacs. I was trying to persuade the wife to get me a new iBook but now...I'll get this new powermac!

 

[DTphonehome]

I couldn't convince my sister to get an Apple.
So, I helped her buy a Dell, no, she would only look at Dells, I couldn't get her into an AMD 64 bit core.

P4 3.0 Ghz
1 gig Ram
SATA 160 Hard Drive
Ati X800 something graphics card
WinXP Pro / Sp2 / Norton AV / Internet protection / Firewall / Email check...
Her machine comes up clean in a virus / trogan scan.

And Guess What? It runs like ****.
It's at least 2x SLOWER then my Powerbook G4 1.5 with 1 gig of ram.
It runs like a PIII 500mhz. Lots of Think Time.
Windows users have really been suckered.

- I can't Imagine just how bad a $500 dollar Dell would run.

Other interesting info:
She first called Dell and ordered a machine by phone.
They wanted to charge her $3000 for a piece of Junk that would have cost $2000 if ordered online.
She ordered it.
When I found out I told her to CANCEL the order.
They called back and offered to take $500 off the price of the machine if she'd still accept it. She said NO, They Shipped it Anyway!
She refused delivery.

- Dell has fallen on hard times.
- Buyer Beware of Dell.

I've pretty much used that exact argument whenever converting someone to Mac. I whip out my 2.5 year-old PB 667 DVI, and compare it to any year old Dell. I win every time, and make Apple another sale.
I think I've converted about 10 people so far...is there some sort of commission program? There should be.

--DT

 

[Jonathan Amend]

I love it! I might actually buy it (and I'm a PC user) =)

I wouldn't buy it if it were a different design that the current PowerMacs though.

 

[Jigglelicious]

I couldn't convince my sister to get an Apple.
So, I helped her buy a Dell, no, she would only look at Dells, I couldn't get her into an AMD 64 bit core.

P4 3.0 Ghz
1 gig Ram
SATA 160 Hard Drive
Ati X800 something graphics card
WinXP Pro / Sp2 / Norton AV / Internet protection / Firewall / Email check...
Her machine comes up clean in a virus / trogan scan.

And Guess What? It runs like ****.
It's at least 2x SLOWER then my Powerbook G4 1.5 with 1 gig of ram.
It runs like a PIII 500mhz. Lots of Think Time.
Windows users have really been suckered.

- I can't Imagine just how bad a $500 dollar Dell would run.

Other interesting info:
She first called Dell and ordered a machine by phone.
They wanted to charge her $3000 for a piece of Junk that would have cost $2000 if ordered online.
She ordered it.
When I found out I told her to CANCEL the order.
They called back and offered to take $500 off the price of the machine if she'd still accept it. She said NO, They Shipped it Anyway!
She refused delivery.

- Dell has fallen on hard times.
- Buyer Beware of Dell.

Format the HDD and install a clean copy of windows. Its all that crap that Dell installs which slows down the computer. With the specs you listed, that computer should be very fast.

 

[Mechcozmo]

Because Apple knows that the Maczone, MacMall, MacConnection etc will toss in $512MB for free to get the sale. Thus Apple doesn't have to expend the cash...sounds like a smart business strategy to me.

You actually need to pay a "$40.00 Professional Installation Fee" if you read the fine print. As if a trained monkey couldn't do it...NO FREAKIN TOOLS!!!

I was looking to get my PowerBook like that, because of the extra RAM, but when I learned that I would need to pay for the installation of the RAM w/o educational discount...it wasn't worth it.

 

[MikeBike]

Format the HDD and install a clean copy of windows. Its all that crap that Dell installs which slows down the computer. With the specs you listed, that computer should be very fast.

Thanks! I should have thought of that.
Dell has made me really look like an Idiot with my sister.
I, too, thought this machine should have been fast.

 

[DTphonehome]

Thanks! I should have thought of that.
Dell has made me really look like an Idiot with my sister.
I, too, thought this machine should have been fast.

When you buy a Corvette, should you have to take in for an overhaul before you drive it anywhere? Hell no. Macs just work. Right out of the box. No futzing neccessary. 95% of computer users couldn't format the HD and reinstall Windows if their lives depended on it.

 

[solvs]

Dell makes me look like a genious... thanks to all of the ones i've had to fix for people. I have a lot of people interested in Apples as their next computers. Shoulda bought a Mac, I always say.

This is nice, but it will not shut the headless Mac wanting people up. They expect something under $999, preferable as cheap as possible. Of course, most of these same people will complain about 256MB of RAM and a crappy video card, but not me. I was going to buy an iMac now that I'm going back to work. And would have preferred a $1299 (or cheaper) 1.6 with combo drive or something. But who knows now. Maybe this might be cool. Especially if you can take out the SuperDrive for another $100 off and/or it is smaller than the normal Tower case. And I can add my own RAM cheaper.

It'll probably only have 4 slots and PCI slots (if it even has those), but I can take those out and stick them in my PC.

Edit: BTW, the XP discs that come with that Dell are probably just install discs. They'll usually just re-install all that crap with it as bundled apps. Sometimes they give you the option to not install them with XP, but sometimes they don't.

 

[macidiot]

Think a little harder ...I'm sure you can come up with more than just a graphics card.



Because Apple knows that the Maczone, MacMall, MacConnection etc will toss in $512MB for free to get the sale. Thus Apple doesn't have to expend the cash...sounds like a smart business strategy to me.

People need to forget about low headless Macs. How many times does Apple keep stating they don't want to "play" in the sub $800 arena. This generally means the eMac starts at $799 with built in crt of course and then the next step is the iMac. Begging for it isn't going to make it come any sooner. The Mac market isn't ready for a low cost headless computer primarily because Apple's business initative is quite pathetic and consumer sales of low end desktops are not profitable.

Why can't Apple do a low end headless mac profitably? All they would have to do is delete the monitor from the current iMac, flip it sideways or lay it flat and you have a ~$900-$1000 machine. Admittedly, thats not the same as a $300 costco special, but it would still be the cheapest G5 machine and would appeal to a lot of people. Of course, it might conflict with Apple's quest to be perceived as ultra-superduper-extra-deluxe premium but hey, they do make that lame eMac...

Still, the low cost G5 tower, if its true, sounds decent enough and fills a gap, though it still isn't what a lot of people are looking for when they talk about a headless iMac. Maybe because that G5 tower, while quite nice, is pretty freaking huge. Now if they came out with a half height tower with say, only 1 or 2 pci slots...

 

[lha72]

Good luck with that one! You can go to Dell and get a POS $499 with generic parts that they didn't design, and they didn't build, low RAM that you have to share with for the video, poor HD Specs, and no CD-RW/DVD (Combo Drive). Also, you don't get any real software, no office suite.

You get what you pay for son!

You can't get much more generic than LG drives, samsung monitors, and no-name korean batteries - all of which Apple uses. Speaking of poor HD Specs, how about them powerbook drives, not to mention the underwhelming displays of Apple laptops. As for office suite, Apple includes the same office suite as Dell - nothing. I've been an Apple user for years, but the premium price Apple demands is definitely not for its generic hardware, it's for their operating system.

 

[MikeBike]

When you buy a Corvette, should you have to take in for an overhaul before you drive it anywhere? Hell no. Macs just work. Right out of the box. No futzing neccessary. 95% of computer users couldn't format the HD and reinstall Windows if their lives depended on it.

This little experience points out the pointlessness of Micro-Benchmarks.
You know, Integer speed tests...
A Micro-benchmark can lock the cpu up to perform the test by forstalling task switching, and make an Intel box produce fast numbers.
But, in the real world, with all that AV / Firewall / AutoUpdate / IM client ... services burning up cpu cycles, the simple task of downloading an a page from the internet can take forever.

Another problem, the software my sister wanted me to install, won't load under Win XP SP2! Kodak Easyshare, and there's no update at this time.

Buyer's remorse: Now, her next machine will be a Mac.

 

[JasonElise1983]

I would buy this in a second when i get the money. Don't get me wrong i love using my Dual 2.0 Ghz G5 at work, and i love the look of the new iMacs, but i am a graphic designer. LCD monitors just don't hold a candle to a good CRT when it comes to color and depth, and i don't need a $1300 20" monitor or a $700 17" monitor. I would like a second processor, but i can't spend more than $2K on a computer. So, lets see. EDU discount and all...

PowerMac G5
Single 1.8Ghz G5
1Gb Ram
160Gb HD
128Mb 9600xt
Airport
Bluetooth
$1500-$1600 (remember...with EDU discount)

LaCie Electron BlueIV 19" Monitor

$350

Total $1850-$1950

Which means the extra money i was going to save to buy a Dual can go toward software now (adobe CS, Office, and Apple Production Suite)

I hope this is right