LTE enabled apps

[Senfinger]

So you put in Airplane mode? and are you with ATT?

Because if you just do bluetooth and wifi it will still work on mine... the minute I go airplane or off it fails. (With my watch over LTE)

*Just trying to figure out if Apple, ATT or my Device is broke = )

Thanks!!!

Umm..."Edit: Also confirmed on my S0 over wifi that the mail app works fine without connectivity to the iPhone, so it should function fine over LTE."

So, what are you asking? I don't need to turn the iPhone actually off when the radios are all off. Trust me, it's not talking to anyone.

 

[fischersd]

So you put in Airplane mode? and are you with ATT?

Because if you just do bluetooth and wifi it will still work on mine... the minute I go airplane or off it fails. (With my watch over LTE)

*Just trying to figure out if Apple, ATT or my Device is broke = )

Thanks!!!

*sigh* I said all of the radios. Yes, that means all of bluetooth, wifi and cellular were off on the iPhone.

The mail app should work the same on cellular as it does on wifi. It seems to function just fine without the iPhone.

You'll see my location as Canada...AT&T isn't up here (anymore....that was a limited run...became part of Rogers/Cantel - maybe 15 or 20 years ago?)

You're simply going to have to call Apple or AT&T to get this sorted out as to who's network isn't working properly.

 

[Senfinger]

Sorry I want to rip my hair out... ATT says I will still need my phone on, Apple says NO it doesn't but wasn't sure lol...and you said yours works without phone involvement... I have 3 tech calls in to call me back (1 with ATT and 2 with Apple) so if I don't get a good answer or fix by Friday it's going back until all the crap gets situated!

Thanks for your help and truly testing and taking the time to reply = )

 

[fischersd]

Sorry I want to rip my hair out... ATT says I will still need my phone on, Apple says NO it doesn't but wasn't sure lol...and you said yours works without phone involvement... I have 3 tech calls in to call me back (1 with ATT and 2 with Apple) so if I don't get a good answer or fix by Friday it's going back until all the crap gets situated!

Thanks for your help and truly testing and taking the time to reply = )

Remember - mine's an S0 (the original Apple Watch) - NOT cellular! It SHOULD work the same on cellular (but I can't verify that for you). Certainly Apple should know for certain. (if it doesn't, then they need to fix it!!!)

 

[co1f]

Sorry I want to rip my hair out... ATT says I will still need my phone on, Apple says NO it doesn't but wasn't sure lol...and you said yours works without phone involvement... I have 3 tech calls in to call me back (1 with ATT and 2 with Apple) so if I don't get a good answer or fix by Friday it's going back until all the crap gets situated!

Thanks for your help and truly testing and taking the time to reply = )

For what it’s worth, I have the same experience as you... also an ATT customer. Doesn’t matter which AW one has, but with iPhone in airplane mode, my watch’s mail.app can’t get new/update icloud.com email without the iPhone on. The second I put the iPhone back on the network, emails update. Just tested it.

 

[fischersd]

It wouldn't hurt if you both reported it as a bug then. (will give it some additional focus from Apple)

https://www.apple.com/feedback/watch.html

 

[profets]

So, I’ve been trying to test this out a bit as I initially thought that I was getting email while on cellular with the phone powered off or in airplane mode, but it’s definitely not the case.

So, with Watch and iPhone both on / connected I can make a bunch of changes to mail and they all reflect/sync very quickly.

If I put the iPhone into Airplane mode or power it off, and have the Watch on wifi or LTE, mail does not update. And while trying to update, it results in the little red phone disconnected icon showing up in mail (even though I can see a cellular signal in control Center).

If I put the iPhone onto a wifi network (no cellular or Bluetooth on), and I keep the Watch connected only to cellular, mail app will work/refresh.

Seems like the Watch’s mail app cannot act like an independent client with internet access, but it can get email as long as it’s able to reach the iPhone, even if that is across different networks.

 

[Senfinger]

Yep per Apple its suppose to work.... thanks to the 3 above for testing... I think this is ATT over a device problem could be wrong.

APPLE LINK: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205547
If your watch is connected to a cellular network, but your iPhone isn't, your watch can do the same things that it can when using Wi-Fi.

 

[co1f]

Yep per Apple its suppose to work.... thanks to the 3 above for testing... I think this is ATT over a device problem could be wrong.

APPLE LINK: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205547
If your watch is connected to a cellular network, but your iPhone isn't, your watch can do the same things that it can when using Wi-Fi.

Thanks for the link, but that’s not definitive. We know it’s not because Apple has already said SMS will not work without the iPhone.

See the section after you quoted which lists apps that will work, does not include mail.app. “When your iPhone is off or out of range...”

 

[fischersd]

Thanks for the link, but that’s not definitive. We know it’s not because Apple has already said SMS will not work without the iPhone.

See the section after you quoted which lists apps that will work, does not include mail.app. “When your iPhone is off or out of range...”

Pasting the quote from the page:

"If your watch is connected to a cellular network, but your iPhone isn't, your watch can do the same things that it can when using Wi-Fi. "

So, that means mail should work. It also means SMS should not work.
That page also says iMessage should work. People need to understand that, while the iMessage app allows you to send and receive SMS messages, it also sends and receives iMessage messages. Not the same protocol at all!! iMessage is encrypted and guaranteed delivery.

 

[co1f]

...
So, that means mail should work. ...

Agreed on SMS not working, but disagree on mail. On wifi, when iPhone is not connected (airplane mode), I cannot access mail.app from AW. See my post #55 above.

 

[fischersd]

Agreed on SMS not working, but disagree on mail. On wifi, when iPhone is not connected (airplane mode), I cannot access mail.app from AW. See my post #55 above.

Yep, but on my S0, over wifi, with all iPhone radios off, the mail app works just fine.

See my post #56 above how you guys should report the LTE not working that way as a bug.

 

[mzanker]

*sigh* I said all of the radios. Yes, that means all of bluetooth, wifi and cellular were off on the iPhone.

The mail app should work the same on cellular as it does on wifi. It seems to function just fine without the iPhone.

You'll see my location as Canada...AT&T isn't up here (anymore....that was a limited run...became part of Rogers/Cantel - maybe 15 or 20 years ago?)

You're simply going to have to call Apple or AT&T to get this sorted out as to who's network isn't working properly.

OK, so I've been doing some testing with my Series 3 on LTE this morning (with iPhone completely powered off and no known WiFi networks in range). This is on the UK EE mobile network.

iMessage works fine, but SMS will neither send nor receive. The watch's mail app also works fine, as do my other apps which work over WiFi (as you'd expect). Apps which rely on the iPhone for data show the red 'disconnected' phone symbol. As soon as the iPhone was powered on again and connected to the mobile network, the SMS I tried to send earlier immediately got sent.

So, to summarise - on LTE with iPhone off, the watch behaves just like it does on WiFi with the iPhone off - the apps ask watch OS for a data connection and the watch handles the rest, according to what it can connect to.

Next test will be with iPhone powered on but out of range and the watch on LTE. I'll be interested to see if SMS sending works under these conditions (because a couple of reviews I read said it did for them).

 

[mzanker]

Next test will be with iPhone powered on but out of range and the watch on LTE. I'll be interested to see if SMS sending works under these conditions (because a couple of reviews I read said it did for them).

So I've just tested this scenario. I left the iPhone powered on and connected to the EE mobile network in my office and went over the other side of the campus where I work so that the watch was also using LTE on EE. I then sent an SMS to EE's automated text service on 150 and although it took around 60 seconds to send, I immediately got a reply.

These were definitely SMS - 'green' text messages. For any other EE users reading this, I sent 'number' to 150 which sends a text back with your mobile number and plan details. I was surprised, because I'd seen reviews saying that sending an SMS worked but receiving didn't, even with the phone powered on.

 

[profets]

Yep per Apple its suppose to work.... thanks to the 3 above for testing... I think this is ATT over a device problem could be wrong.

APPLE LINK: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205547
If your watch is connected to a cellular network, but your iPhone isn't, your watch can do the same things that it can when using Wi-Fi.

That link doesn't really seem definitive about what will and what won't work though. Unless I'm losing it I don't see Mail mentioned there?

Also, just an fyi in my case I'm on Bell, not AT&T for cellular.

Yep, but on my S0, over wifi, with all iPhone radios off, the mail app works just fine.

See my post #56 above how you guys should report the LTE not working that way as a bug.

I have to test that out (Watch on Wifi, iPhone radios powered off). I imagine Watch getting data from wifi or cellular shouldn't make a difference for something like mail though?

Also, I wonder if it could also depend on the mail account/setup/settings. I know with my mail provider I need to setup one time unique passwords per device. Could the mail app be acting like a standalone client on the Watch when the iPhone is powered off?

 

[fischersd]

I have to test that out (Watch on Wifi, iPhone radios powered off). I imagine Watch getting data from wifi or cellular shouldn't make a difference for something like mail though?

Also, I wonder if it could also depend on the mail account/setup/settings. I know with my mail provider I need to setup one time unique passwords per device. Could the mail app be acting like a standalone client on the Watch when the iPhone is powered off?

Heh...I've said that several times now. Full blown watch apps should not care what the data path is (bluetooth, wifi or cellular) - they're just asking for that via the OS. If the mail app is working differently over LTE than over wifi, then that's a bug.

Well, obviously if the watch's mail app is able to send/receive mail without the benefit of the iPhone, it's working as a mail client. What you're talking about, with each mail client needing a unique password?? That could definitely be the fly in the ointment...are you doing some sort of SSL/SSH key exchange? I don't see anywhere in the mail app settings for advanced security options. Maybe it can inherit those settings from the iPhone client...but I'd do a specific google search on those parameters.

 

[profets]

Heh...I've said that several times now. Full blown watch apps should not care what the data path is (bluetooth, wifi or cellular) - they're just asking for that via the OS. If the mail app is working differently over LTE than over wifi, then that's a bug.

Well, obviously if the watch's mail app is able to send/receive mail without the benefit of the iPhone, it's working as a mail client. What you're talking about, with each mail client needing a unique password?? That could definitely be the fly in the ointment...are you doing some sort of SSL/SSH key exchange? I don't see anywhere in the mail app settings for advanced security options. Maybe it can inherit those settings from the iPhone client...but I'd do a specific google search on those parameters.

My mail service is an IMAP connection with SSL and it uses app-specific passwords - So I generate a different one time password for each device I configure.

I'm curious to test over wifi, but at home for some reason my Watch won't connect to wifi. Going to try it at the office in a bit.

 

[fischersd]

My mail service is an IMAP connection with SSL and it uses app-specific passwords - So I generate a different one time password for each device I configure.

I'm curious to test over wifi, but at home for some reason my Watch won't connect to wifi. Going to try it at the office in a bit.

Yep, if it's device specific, you're likely to have issues getting the mail on the watch to work standalone.

As for your home wifi - remember, only 802.11b/g/n at 2.4GHz. If you're using the same SSID for 5GHz/2.4GHz, then you may want to temporarily disable the 5GHz network, forget the network on your iPhone, then recreate it on your iPhone - then the watch will have the credentials it needs for the 2.4GHz network and you can re-enable the 5GHz band, it should be fine.
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OK, so I've been doing some testing with my Series 3 on LTE this morning ...
Next test will be with iPhone powered on but out of range and the watch on LTE. I'll be interested to see if SMS sending works under these conditions (because a couple of reviews I read said it did for them).

Isn't your "next test" the same test? The iPhone is the target for SMS messages. If it's out of cellular coverage, none of your devices (including the watch) should be receiving any of the SMS forwarding via continuity/iMessage.

I suspect the "only allowing voice calls if you have wifi calling" is a political distinction not a technical one to appease the carriers. I really don't expect the Apple Watch is actually using the UMA/GAN (VoWIFI) infrastructure to make calls.

 

[profets]

Yep, if it's device specific, you're likely to have issues getting the mail on the watch to work standalone.

As for your home wifi - remember, only 802.11b/g/n at 2.4GHz. If you're using the same SSID for 5GHz/2.4GHz, then you may want to temporarily disable the 5GHz network, forget the network on your iPhone, then recreate it on your iPhone - then the watch will have the credentials it needs for the 2.4GHz network and you can re-enable the 5GHz band, it should be fine.
[doublepost=1506511495][/doublepost]
Isn't your "next test" the same test? The iPhone is the target for SMS messages. If it's out of cellular coverage, none of your devices (including the watch) should be receiving any of the SMS forwarding via continuity/iMessage.

I suspect the "only allowing voice calls if you have wifi calling" is a political distinction not a technical one to appease the carriers. I really don't expect the Apple Watch is actually using the UMA/GAN (VoWIFI) infrastructure to make calls.

Excellent thoughts, thanks. I had a feeling that was likely contributing to the mail setup I have. Good thing though is as long as the iPhone is on and connected somewhere, mail on the Watch seems to work.

Going to try that for the Wifi as well. Weird as previous watches were connecting ok, and office is setup the same way and it does connect there. Going to try that now though. Edit: That did the trick, thanks!

 

[co1f]

Yep, but on my S0, over wifi, with all iPhone radios off, the mail app works just fine.

See my post #56 above how you guys should report the LTE not working that way as a bug.

Yeah, not sure why it works for some but not others. I wouldn't think it'd have to do with the specific email account (gmail, icloud), since one would think Apple would totally support icloud (which is what I tested with). Who knows. At this point, for me, it's too much like work

 

[Senfinger]

So after some testing this AM I realized it's a watch/phone handoff issue. My watch will connect to wifi while my phone is in Airplane Mode> and mail or instagram doesn't work *Does the same thing as connected to LTE*. (I get the red phone icon etc...) Not 100% that I'm on wifi- but know that the LTE green dots never appear... So it looks like my issue is a handoff bug issue not related to ATT/LTE.

Going to Apple during my break and run this by them- I also have the three tech calls and cases submitted. If no luck going to return it Friday and wait and hope for fixes.

 

[JimmyR4]

Twitter just updated their app...and removed the apple watch app in doing so.

 

[mzanker]

My mail service is an IMAP connection with SSL and it uses app-specific passwords - So I generate a different one time password for each device I configure.

Do you really mean a one time password? That's a password that is only valid for one (and only one) login.

I use FastMail with 2FA so have app-specific passwords for each device. However, the watch Mail app will use the credentials from the iPhone, so it should work fine - mine does.

 

[JimmyR4]

I can confirm my mail app does not work with LTE on and iphone on airplane mode. Getting the red phone icon in the top right of the mail app.

 

[profets]

Do you really mean a one time password? That's a password that is only valid for one (and only one) login.

I use FastMail with 2FA so have app-specific passwords for each device. However, the watch Mail app will use the credentials from the iPhone, so it should work fine - mine does.

Yes, app-specific password per device and 2FA with Fastmail as well. As long as the iPhone is online somewhere (network doesn't matter), the Watch's mail client will work (over LTE or Wifi). But when the phone is off, mail app on Watch loses connection. You're not seeing this with the same setup?

edit: Had a bit of time so tried setting up mail again on iPhone (and watch). Completely wiped the mail account I had on the phone, and created a new app-specific password in fast mail. Set it up on the phone, it then showed up on the watch. Everything syncing quite instantly. I then put the phone into airplane mode, saw the Watch went to wifi, tried refreshing mail, and it eventually goes to the disconnected phone icon. For whatever reason the Watch with my mail account cannot act like a completely independent client. Not a big deal at the end of the day though, as I'm never really intentionally putting my phone into airplane mode. Usually it'll be when I leave it behind (but still online).