Luna Display Gains PC-to-Mac Mode, 5K Support and More

[snyp1193]

But 2560x1440 is a quarter of the resolution… and is not 4k… maybe I misunderstand what you are saying…

I can get 2560x1440 with screen sharing (or Jump Desktop) without Luna… I can tell the difference between 2560x1440 and 5120x2880

Luna can also only use one “monitor” and only one Luna can be used on a single primary Mac - which are a significant limitations so without the higher retina 5k perfromance might as well use VNC or Jump Desktop…

I’ll have to test it out for myself to see when my MBP arrives.

The 2560x1440 is just the UI scaling so everything doesn't look tiny. Display will still be rendered in 4K. The text and image sharpness is close to the native 5k. For me it looks more similar to the sharpness of my 16" MBP but it retains 60hz so the cursor and animations aren't super choppy.

 

[ader42]

Ah cool, 4k at 60hz sounds fine to me - I’ll likely end up using that setting when I don’t have the iPad in the mix - as I think Luna might be the best option when using iPad as a pencil/sculpting tablet e.g. for ZBrush.

 

[patsfan83]

Ok, now I have tested in on a MacBook Air (m1), using an iMac 5K as the display. I ran it over thunderbolt, assuming it would give the highest bandwidth, and I am disappointed.

First; the frame rate is not great at 45 Hz. It is choppy at default and when I tried running a 1080p video in full screen, the frame rate dropped to ~ 3 fps.
I also got some weird compression "lag" when using Mission Control with only five windows. When the windows moved, the resolution dropped significantly and it took a short while for it to catch up again after they had stopped working.

Also, the Air used about 150% CPU when something was animated on the screen (tested with testufo.com, for example), which is quite a heavy hit.

I really wanted this to work

Hold option when going in to preferences and you can set the bandwidth manually. See my previous posts.

 

[The_Martini_Cat]

Just tried this update on my M1M 16" and 2017 27" iMac as a second display. Pretty lackluster, even over a thunderbolt wire (manual 100KB/s/800kbps). Experience the usual lag/pixelation.

Would be fine for still content.

THANK YOU! ?? That answers exactly my question I want to know, for my 2017 iMac. All best && cheers ??

 

[4jasontv]

Show me this $5 display emulator on Amazon that supports 5k.

I’m sure whatever I share you will take issue with. Most people won’t see any value in 5k, so 4K would be sufficient. And no, that extra resolution isn’t worth a 26x markup.

 

[snyp1193]

I’m sure whatever I share you will take issue with. Most people won’t see any value in 5k, so 4K would be sufficient. And no, that extra resolution isn’t worth a 26x markup.

Luna display definitely saved me hundreds of dollars getting a monitor now that I WFH permanently and I also don't have to get rid of the iMac to make room for a dedicated monitor. I think its a pretty good value!

 

[jwhazel]

I’m sure whatever I share you will take issue with. Most people won’t see any value in 5k, so 4K would be sufficient. And no, that extra resolution isn’t worth a 26x markup.

I'm not sure what you're looking to get out of this thread. You started off with a question: "Also, I am sure it’s been mentioned here before but why is this a hardware solution?" You are correct, it has been discussed here before and it's also discussed on Astropad's website. The answer is that the dongle mimics a display. That is its primary purpose. It alleviates the use of software hacks to mimic an external display. It enables hardware acceleration of the extended display. Astropad designed it. They write and continue to update the firmware on it. They provide customer support for it. That's it. That's what it does. That's the answer. And despite your assertion, there are plenty of us with 5k imacs that find value in running it as a secondary display at native resolution.

If your sticking point is that it needs to be cheaper/open source and use a generic dongle, then I have good news for you. That product already exists: https://deskreen.com/lang-en

I don't normally recommend it because I've tried it (along with Duet, Air Display, and several other software only options). None of them work as well as Luna performance-wise. But they do work. Given that you don't seem to care about resolution, I doubt performance will be a deal breaker for you. Give it a shot.

 

[4jasontv]

I'm not sure what you're looking to get out of this thread. You started off with a question: "Also, I am sure it’s been mentioned here before but why is this a hardware solution?" You are correct, it has been discussed here before and it's also discussed on Astropad's website. The answer is that the dongle mimics a display. That is its primary purpose. It alleviates the use of software hacks to mimic an external display. It enables hardware acceleration of the extended display. Astropad designed it. They write and continue to update the firmware on it. They provide customer support for it. That's it. That's what it does. That's the answer. And despite your assertion, there are plenty of us with 5k imacs that find value in running it as a secondary display at native resolution.

If your sticking point is that it needs to be cheaper/open source and use a generic dongle, then I have good news for you. That product already exists: https://deskreen.com/lang-en

I don't normally recommend it because I've tried it (along with Duet, Air Display, and several other software only options). None of them work as well as Luna performance-wise. But they do work. Given that you don't seem to care about resolution, I doubt performance will be a deal breaker for you. Give it a shot.

It can’t be a good solution if has an unnecessarily overpriced hardware drm that inhibits me from using the software on multiple devices. Because when I buy software I own it. If I buy this I expect to be able to use any dongle I want. If the hardware is necessary than I should be able to use any hardware, if it’s not is borderline fraud. DRM is wrong, and needs to be destroyed. If the dongle is even a little bit drm it’s a bad product.

 

[Boomhowler]

Hold option when going in to preferences and you can set the bandwidth manually. See my previous posts.

Thanks for the tip! I increased the bitrate to 200 Mbps and it worked MUCH better. Still some compression artefacts when watching videos in full-screen and the choppy frame rate is not optimal.

It would be great to be able to increase the frame rate as well, at least from the debug-menu. I guess it won't be as stable, but it would at least be great to tweak the settings a bit more

 

[patsfan83]

Thanks for the tip! I increased the bitrate to 200 Mbps and it worked MUCH better. Still some compression artefacts when watching videos in full-screen and the choppy frame rate is not optimal.

It would be great to be able to increase the frame rate as well, at least from the debug-menu. I guess it won't be as stable, but it would at least be great to tweak the settings a bit more

I can get 60hz with my non-retina 27" and it's pretty darn close to replicating a standard display. Can't speak to Retina displays.

 

[Bandaman]

Apple really doesn't want you using Windows.

And we don’t care, which is why things like this exist.

 

[Bandaman]

Apple really should bring back Target Display Mode, especially since the new machines can't (currently) run Windows. I'm sure there are a large number of people with an iMac at home who would like to use as a monitor for their work computer when they're working from home.

The ARM version of Windows runs fast in Parallels on the M1, though there are some compatibility issues with certain apps.

 

[jwhazel]

It can’t be a good solution if has an unnecessarily overpriced hardware drm that inhibits me from using the software on multiple devices. Because when I buy software I own it. If I buy this I expect to be able to use any dongle I want. If the hardware is necessary than I should be able to use any hardware, if it’s not is borderline fraud. DRM is wrong, and needs to be destroyed. If the dongle is even a little bit drm it’s a bad product.

It doesn’t work with any dongle you want because no one makes a dongle that meets their specs. No one makes one that supports 5k (or 4k for that matter) that also uses the DisplayPort Alt Mode standard over usb-c. But you already realized that when I challenged you to post one of your claimed $5 ones from Amazon and then you realized you couldn’t find one.

If you really require the flexibility of being able to use generic hardware, I posted you a solution: Deskreen. But instead you seem to be more interested in arguing about a company that makes a vertically integrated solution. Which is ironic given you're in a forum dedicated to a famous computer company that does the exact same thing. Maybe take a step back and reassess your battle here.

 

[jwhazel]

Thanks for the tip! I increased the bitrate to 200 Mbps and it worked MUCH better. Still some compression artefacts when watching videos in full-screen and the choppy frame rate is not optimal.

It would be great to be able to increase the frame rate as well, at least from the debug-menu. I guess it won't be as stable, but it would at least be great to tweak the settings a bit more

How are the artifacts around scrolling text? This was a killer for me on the v.4 version as I'm a developer and trying to read blocky code as I scroll is a no-go. I noticed v.5 greatly improved this but it's still there and I didn't mess with bandwidth settings. Won't be able to try it out till next week, so curious if you have any results you could share now. Also did you notice increase in CPU consumption on either machine by bumping bitrate?

 

[snyp1193]

How are the artifacts around scrolling text? This was a killer for me on the v.4 version as I'm a developer and trying to read blocky code as I scroll is a no-go. I noticed v.5 greatly improved this but it's still there and I didn't mess with bandwidth settings. Won't be able to try it out till next week, so curious if you have any results you could share now. Also did you notice increase in CPU consumption on either machine by bumping bitrate?

I don’t see any artifacts in VS Code or IntelliJ. I have mine on default bandwidth setting so it automatically scales to 860Mbps over thunderbolt according to vitals chart. Takes a while though but then it’s fairly smooth and no artifacts. It does use a significant amount more video memory though. If you use teams or other video conferencing it’ll likely stay maxed out.

 

[patsfan83]

I don’t see any artifacts in VS Code or IntelliJ. I have mine on default bandwidth setting so it automatically scales to 860Mbps over thunderbolt according to vitals chart. Takes a while though but then it’s fairly smooth and no artifacts. It does use a significant amount more video memory though. If you use teams or other video conferencing it’ll likely stay maxed out.

I used to play a fullscreen video from YouTube after I connected which would get it to ramp up faster.

Hold option going in to preferences and you can set it manually and it will set it immediately.

 

[jwhazel]

I don’t see any artifacts in VS Code or IntelliJ. I have mine on default bandwidth setting so it automatically scales to 860Mbps over thunderbolt according to vitals chart. Takes a while though but then it’s fairly smooth and no artifacts. It does use a significant amount more video memory though. If you use teams or other video conferencing it’ll likely stay maxed out.

Greetings fellow VSC user. Do you happen to know of a trick to allow the secondary's mouse to control the cursor on the primary screen? I have searched for a way ever since purchase and haven't come up with anything. I've noticed that in v.5 the cursor will now bleed over onto the edge of the primary screen about 1-2px. But it still will not make the jump.

 

[4jasontv]

It doesn’t work with any dongle you want because no one makes a dongle that meets their specs. No one makes one that supports 5k (or 4k for that matter) that also uses the DisplayPort Alt Mode standard over usb-c. But you already realized that when I challenged you to post one of your claimed $5 ones from Amazon and then you realized you couldn’t find one.

If you really require the flexibility of being able to use generic hardware, I posted you a solution: Deskreen. But instead you seem to be more interested in arguing about a company that makes a vertically integrated solution. Which is ironic given you're in a forum dedicated to a famous computer company that does the exact same thing. Maybe take a step back and reassess your battle here.

See, you already added modifiers to my original statement about why I wouldn't link to one. I knew you would have some reason to argue it wasn't the same. All it needs to do is simulate a display at a select resolution is connected. It's not expensive to implement and you can pick up 4K HDMI and DisplayPort solutions for $5. Which I already mentioned. Since this thing isn't getting high refresh rates and since most displays are 4K, not 5K, there is no reason for all pushback, or spending so much. You can get a USBC to HDMI adapter for cheap as well, if your computer doesn't have HDMI.

Apple may be vertically integrated, but when I buy an app from the App store I can simultaneously use it will all supported devices.

 

[snyp1193]

Greetings fellow VSC user. Do you happen to know of a trick to allow the secondary's mouse to control the cursor on the primary screen? I have searched for a way ever since purchase and haven't come up with anything. I've noticed that in v.5 the cursor will now bleed over onto the edge of the primary screen about 1-2px. But it still will not make the jump.

I have two sets of magic keyboard and magic trackpad for this reason. One for my macbook and one for my imac. If I use my macbook (primary) set it will cross over to my Luna display and my iPad on sidecar. I haven't found a way to get the imac (secondary) set to cross over.

 

[snyp1193]

I used to play a fullscreen video from YouTube after I connected which would get it to ramp up faster.

Hold option going in to preferences and you can set it manually and it will set it immediately.

I used the manual one before but it only maxes out at 320Mbps. i don't know why it doesn't have the max option of 840Mbps...With the 4k enabled it's more choppy if i use the manual since its less than half the bandwidth.

 

[rawweb]

deleted, learned I was mistaken.

 

[snyp1193]

Wrong, it is the maximum....might want to edit your post.

View attachment 1922590

Uhhh what?......Mbps > Kbps

800 Kbps is 0.8 Mbps. More Mbps = higher the bandwidth..

 

[rawweb]

Uhhh what?......Mbps > Kbps

800 Kbps is 0.8 Mbps. More Mbps = higher the bandwidth..

OMG, you're right. Haha. I apparently became blind to that and just saw the lower numbers on the right side. Great Scott. My bad! I'll have to experiment with this again. Thanks for helping clarify what was right in my face.

 

[jwhazel]

See, you already added modifiers to my original statement about why I wouldn't link to one. I knew you would have some reason to argue it wasn't the same. All it needs to do is simulate a display at a select resolution is connected. It's not expensive to implement and you can pick up 4K HDMI and DisplayPort solutions for $5. Which I already mentioned. Since this thing isn't getting high refresh rates and since most displays are 4K, not 5K, there is no reason for all pushback, or spending so much. You can get a USBC to HDMI adapter for cheap as well, if your computer doesn't have HDMI.

Apple may be vertically integrated, but when I buy an app from the App store I can simultaneously use it will all supported devices.

Yeah exactly. In order to run the software from the App Store, you need to own the physical device it runs on. Want to run your app on 5 Macbook Pro's? Then you need to own 5 Macbook Pro's. Want to run Luna on 5 different external displays? Then you need to own 5 Luna dongles. There is literally zero difference.

I posted an alternative that meets the criteria you are looking for. It lacks the resolution support and low latency of Luna. But rather than accept it, you keep arguing that Luna needs to work the way you think it should rather than the way it actually does. You're entitled to your opinions, but I don't care to argue with you anymore.

 

[4jasontv]

Yeah exactly. In order to run the software from the App Store, you need to own the physical device it runs on. Want to run your app on 5 Macbook Pro's? Then you need to own 5 Macbook Pro's. Want to run Luna on 5 different external displays? Then you need to own 5 Luna dongles. There is literally zero difference.

I posted an alternative that meets the criteria you are looking for. It lacks the resolution support and low latency of Luna. But rather than accept it, you keep arguing that Luna needs to work the way you think it should rather than the way it actually does. You're entitled to your opinions, but I don't care to argue with you anymore.

No difference? Great, I have $20 here I should be able to grab 5 of them.

This isn't a topic where we can agree to disagree. DRM is bad. It harms innocent people and saying try an alterative misses the point.