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Yeah, quite a niche which I don't think will be able to support the product in the recent future.

I still have my 2011 with me!
Doesn't work anymore, but it's one hell of a good looking piece of decor!

I honestly agree.
The Mac Studio ended up being the computer most people wanted, and from what I was able to gather it seemed to have been quite a success (I have an M1 Ultra myself).
The Mac Studio as it has been thought so far, it's not really a relevant product anymore.

Would be cool to have the 2 lineups compiled into a new product, hopefully with a radical new design (for one thing, I think the Mac Studio looks very boring and uninspired).
That said, the mac studio has been such a success I don't see Apple dropping it anytime soon.
Apple silicon design killed almost all of the Mac Pro traditional advantages (or the possibility of offering those)

It is what it is, the fact is there are several trade off advantages that do show up in all other product lines.

The Mac Pro has always been niche and never sold enough to make a profit. What I seem to be reading in all these these comments is..

“I don’t need or want it, so Apple should bin it”

I’m not sure when the entire world got so binary. Apple can have a product for sale that doesn’t suit your needs. It’s ok. For the people that want it, it’s there. For everyone else there’s the Mac Studio.
I don't mind niche products quite the opposite. But before Apple could offer niche advantages. Now there really isn't almost nothing.
 
I hope Apple has made progress on previously rumoured "Extreme" chip, and release a Mac Pro with a M3/M4 Extreme chip: with 4 Max chips fused together. That Extreme chip will probably, finally justify the tower form factor and be the "real" Mac Pro.
There's no technical limitations stopping Apple from putting any never-seen-before-beyond-Ultra chip in a Mac Studio. And, conversely, there's no benefit to putting said "Extreme" chip in the big tower form-factor that we get with the Mac Pro.

Look at the specs and configurations Apple will let you put in the current M2 Mac Pro and Mac Studio. It's all the same apart from the extra ports and slots you get on the Mac Pro.

-How much more clearly do they need to spell out that the big PC tower form-factor of the Mac Pro is redundant in the Apple Silicon era?
 
What Apple should be doing with the MacPro is for an M# SoC each generation and update the body every other generation. People should be able to drop the new SoCs in their existing MacPro bodies. Then again, I think Apple made a mistake by not offering a way to support dual SoCs in the MacPro.

That really wasn't true for the Intel Mac Pro's for the iteration cadence that Apple was on for over a decade. Intel switched sockets at the end of every tick-tock iteration during the hey-day of Intel Macs. The 'new CPU' also brought a new socket about every two years (around 36 months 2-2.5 years) ... so no you couldn't drop a 'new' CPU because the socket changed.

Not only the socket but the PCI-e and other I/O elements were changing over time also.

A socket is more so that you can by older stuff ( either at 'used' prices or at 'mature' now more discounted prices). It is not to keep up with the leading edge over an extended period of time. If the objective is to buy up 'scrapped' server room cast offs CPUs at cheaper prices , then yeah.... it is a match.


A highly proprietary daughter cards aren't going to necessarily do it either ( The pins on the daughter cards are off to I/O which is moving also). The Mac Pro 2009-2012 got no new daughter cards.

Doing a relatively ginormous SoC is expensive to create ( R&D costs , very very low userbase to apply the amortization rate , etc. ) . Folks expecting the Mac Pro's to iterate at anything like yearly rates a likely pretty misguided. The Mac Pro is missing something that is bigger than an Ultra. Not necessarily a 'quad' but something incrementally more than just a laptop optimized die pretending it is a 'chiplet' (when it is not).

The volume that made the Intel Xeon workstation class CPUs used in the the older Mac Pros work was entirely based upon non Mac sales. Completely!!!!! Decoupled from those the new SoC rate is not going to increase. What have is a completely different sized ecosystem. There is no viable buying loosey, new CPU only off the shelf market.
 
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I am confused why this article insists that an Ultra chip based on N3E would have to be called an M4 Ultra... It would still be an M3 if it is based on the same core designs.

I am not familiar enough with the details of the processes to know how much design work is required to migrate the M3 Max from N3B to N3E... but it would still be an M3, either way.
 
More and more convinced that my M1M Studio will be my main machine until it no longer gets updates. There's just no compelling reason to upgrade it. I don't use it to make money so the processing power is irrelevant. Bought it because of the ports and the display support. And not replacing my ASDs any time soon either!
 
Apple's Mac Pro product cycle is as follows:

  1. Release redesigned Mac Pro at 10 times the price of the previous one
  2. Let it go obsolete in one month
  3. Wait 10 years
  4. Do not, under any circumstance, update it or drop the price
  5. Repeat
 

While all this seems completely logical and I never understand the need for any Silicon Mac Pro that didn’t include support for 3rd party GPU PCI card. The very limited [some what outdated] Apple sales numbers present a paradoxical view [that I still don’t understand]. Specifically the Mac Pro units out sold the Mac Studio and the Mac Mini units combined!?! This was supposed to have been based on sales September 2022 quarter (M1 generation).

View attachment 2333031


I mean, yeah, those numbers seem implausible.
 
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The Mac Pro is dead. My guess is that some engineers working on the Mac Pro left the company when Apple decided that the Mac Pro would just be a Mac Studio with PCI-E, that’s why it took so long. The current Mac Pro won’t sell enough to make a profit from, so they’ll axe it. Just like they did with Xserve: blame the buyers, not themselves.
It's such a niche product, and Apple Silicon doesn't scale to the levels necessary to support the massive amounts of RAM that the Intel model did. It's not necessarily that Apple couldn't produce a specific chip (the rumor was two fused Ultra chips), but since Apple is the only "customer" for such a chip, it doesn't make economic sense to produce.
 
It seems weird to have to wait this "long" (relatively) for Apple to drop the M3 Max in the Studio when the chip is already available in the high-end MBP - it makes buying a Studio M2 Max/Ultra nonsensical and forces those buyers to wait around.

Make the M3 Max version of the Studio available right away, and release the M3 Ultra Studio and Pro later?
 
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....​

The report comes from Taiwanese research firm TrendForce citing ICsmart. The current Mac Studio, which contains M2 Max and M2 Ultra chip options, was introduced at WWDC in June 2023. With TrendForce forecasting another mid-year update for the Mac Studio, a repeat appearance at WWDC seems likely this year.

The Mac Pro is the only other Mac model that contains an "Ultra" Apple silicon chip, so its absence from today's report discussing the M3 Ultra is noticeable.

The Mac Mini Mx and Mx Pro ( two SoCs)
The Mac Stutdio Mx Mac and Mx Utlra ( two SoCs)
The MBP 14"/16" Mx Pro and Mx Max (and Mx for the 14" )

Mac Pro just one Mx Ultra

That is the odd part. The Mac Pro should have a something 'more than Ultra'. ( it doesn't have to be a 'quad' but should be at least incrementally more at the top end configuration. For example Can see it in the asymmetrical PCI-e backhaul of x8 and x16 PCI-e 4.0 of the current MP 2023. Where the MP 2019 had two x16 PCI-e v3.0 . )

The M3 Max showed up in late 2023 but the M3 Ultra isn't coming until mid-2024 . About 6 months later. So why would it be surprising if a 'more than Ultra' showed up 4-5 months after the Ultra does? If there is any reused subcomponent here in the SoC Apple is likely going to push out the high volume one first before the low volume one on a pretty common basis.

And if the Mac Pro is iterating substantively slower than others than might make sense to wait for an 'early' M4 option. ( and skip 'odd numbered' M-series generations). M2 , M4 , M6 , etc. ( doesn't always have to be smallest die first if rolling to a more incremental fab iteration (or no fab iteration). )

The larger (and more expensive to develop) the SoC is the more likely it is going to iterate substantively slower than the small die SoCs. The market is relatively much smaller so it takes longer to re-coup the costs. The last three Mac Pros iterated design on 3 , 6 , and 4 year cycles. If Apple dropped to a 2-2.5 year iteration cycle that would be significantly faster than over anything for a decade.

The expectation that Mac Pro are going to iterate every year is likely delusional. Really has nothing to do with the CPU/SoCs at all. It didn't iteration that way on Intel for last decade either.
 
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Looked like the Cube was coming back from the looks of the graphic?! 😆
It makes the Mac Pro looks so small... or the Studio so big! 🤔

There, I helped...

M3-Mac-Pro-and-Studio-Feature copy.png
 
I bought the 2019 Mac Pro along with a W6800X Duo. Worst money I ever spent – could barely give it away when I switched to a top-of-the-range M2 Ultra Mac Studio. I'll be ordering the top-end M3 Ultra the moment it's announced.

The only reason for buying a Mac Pro now would be to stuff it full of storage, which is inherently better than external enclosures (as I've had to do with the Studio). But frankly the price differential makes that a non-starter.
Why, there are enough good USB-C raid enclosures. The OWC thunderbay4, fill it up with SSD's and run Softraid. It's rock solid!
 
Mac Pro seems like a fairly pointless product given that Apple doesn’t seem like they want to compete with Nvidia and AMD when it comes to ultra high end GPUs and that most actual “professionals” who use Macs just use MacBook Pros. The popularity of MBPs in software development and other fields means that there are more pros using Macs now than there ever were during the heyday of the Mac Pro. If the Mac Pro isn’t going to have the GPU performance to keep up with rivals for things like AI then there isn’t much purpose for it.
 
Mac Pro seems like a fairly pointless product given that Apple doesn’t seem like they want to compete with Nvidia and AMD when it comes to ultra high end GPUs and that most actual “professionals” who use Macs just use MacBook Pros. The popularity of MBPs in software development and other fields means that there are more pros using Macs now than there ever were during the heyday of the Mac Pro. If the Mac Pro isn’t going to have the GPU performance to keep up with rivals for things like AI then there isn’t much purpose for it.
And yet, Apple is expanding to game, 3D, AI, and research where high GPU performance is required from last event. Even for video, you will need high GPU performance for graphic or even 3D in videos. Beside, Apple SIlicon's GPU performance is barely close to RTX 40 series while taking advantage with 3nm as Nvidia is still using 5nm.
 
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Why is no one talking about how Macrumors is insisting that the M4 chips are launching mid year. Yes the space between the M2 Pro and M3 Pro is 10-months, but are we really going to be seeing two chip generations in the same year?
 
Annual spring updates for the Studio makes sense given past updates. And if Apple goes to the trouble of designing new A-series silicon every year there's no reason they can't do the same with M-series silicon, seeing as how they use the same microarchitecture, so an M4 in the fall with further incremental updates is perfectly reasonable and in line with how Intel and AMD release their products. It would be nice to get back on the wagon of Apple updating their core Mac lineup on an annual basis even if it's just a spec bump between major revisions.

As for the Mac Pro, I'd be curious to see if there are any rumors of the Jade 4C dies being resurrected (essentially four Max chips stitched together), or some other form of silicon that can differentiate the Pro from the Studio aside from PCIe slots. That could account for the Pro not being upgraded to the Ultra if Apple has something else in mind. I highly doubt it, but it was on Apple's radar at one point.

Hopefully it means they the Mac Pro will actually get a valid update.

The whole apple silicon timescale is a bit weird I think. Because the chips are staggered the Max then performs similarly to the Ultra and then you get a portable laptop thats as quick as a desktop like the Mac Pro.

IMO, this has been due mostly to production scale issues. When M1 launched, we had the base SoC and then months later the PRO/MAX and months after that the ULTRA. TSMC and Apple were probably having issues scaling production of these new SoCs so they staggered them. We saw much the same with M2.

Now M3 launches with base, PRO and MAX at the same time. Yet Apple did not move the MacBook Air to the M3 at launch, as that model makes up the significant bulk of Mac sales. One reason is probably the high cost of N3B (relative to N3E) would have eaten into margins (assuming Apple had kept the MacBook Air price the same) and another could be that the lower production volume of the M3 MacBook Pro family meant they could meet demand while working on scaling 3nm production.

As such, it makes some sense to move M3 MAX fabrication from N3B to N3E first (and might be why PRO and MAX now have different internal structures with the M3 generation) to lower the cost and increase the yields to allow two being used to make an ULTRA.

M4 might very well release all four SoC models at once as N3E should be at scale and with sufficient yield quality to support making all four SoCs.


I am confused why this article insists that an Ultra chip based on N3E would have to be called an M4 Ultra... It would still be an M3 if it is based on the same core designs.

I think MacRumors is just conflating "N3E equals M4" because M4 is expected to be fabricated on the N3E process.

The release of N3E in june might explain the mac mini macbook air delays

Agreed. N3E will be cheaper to manufacture and probably will have higher yields to support MacBook Air demand and profit margins at the same base price.


And yet, Apple is expanding to game, 3D, AI, and research where high GPU performance is required from last event. Even for video, you will need high GPU performance for graphic or even 3D in videos. Beside, Apple Silicon's GPU performance is barely close to RTX 40 series while taking advantage with 3nm as Nvidia is still using 5nm.

Historically, dedicated GPUs have always crushed integrated GPUs.

What I find exciting and hopeful is that Apple is the first company who is making integrated GPUs that are not crushed by dedicated GPUs. Yes, the dGPUs still hold an advantage (and in some areas and configurations, a substantial one), but for so many purposes, Apple's iGPUs are now not just "good enough", but "more than good enough" and in portable applications provide this power paired with exceptional battery life.
 
The ASMacPro is a slap in the face to Apples Pro users, (not both cheeks, just one). At least if they could use eGPU that would open a lot of avenues for users without have a huge impact on Apples own software?
Thinking they'd make more on hardware sales if it supported AMD, and (shock horror), NVidia than they would on sales of the relevant software that they develop in house for the M2/M3.
Surely more of the Mac Pro users now have just left the platform completely?
 
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