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Fomalhaut

macrumors 68000
Oct 6, 2020
1,918
1,639
They can cool an M2 Pro in a laptop. Thus I would expect them to be able to cool an M4 Pro in a Mac super mini.
I tend to agree. The fans in the MBP with M2/M3 Pro are not that big and not positioned over the SoC, instead using the "heat pipes" to remove hot air. I would think that a "mini Mac-Studio" type design that is somewhere between the Apple TV and the current Mac Mini in size should be easily able to cool an M4 Pro to prevent throttling.

My concerns would be:

(a) That they don't offer an M4 Pro option at all, forcing buyers to the Mac Studio, or
(b) They reduce or remove ports, e.g. removing 1/10Gb Ethernet, SD card reader, or cutting down to 3 x USB-C/Thunderbolt ports.
 

ric22

macrumors 68030
Mar 8, 2022
2,677
2,774
Does anyone anticipate any physical improvements, aside from the new SoC, such as ports on the front? 28 pages of doom and gloom, aside from a couple of people cheerful that less aluminium will be used and the packaging can shrink a tad too.
 

b.la

macrumors member
Oct 19, 2021
75
82
Extended benchmark tests on the M2 Mini vs M2 iPad Pro do not support your statement at all. Heck, benchmark tests on the M2 Mini vs M2 MacBook Air even show a marked difference as a result of the active cooling.

Not sure why you imagine the M4 iPad will perform the same as an M4 desktop with active cooling.
Erm, you do understand they’re the same chip right? I don’t know what nonsense you’re looking at but any slight variation in performance will not be perceivable by a person using it. Again, the main difference in experience here is going to be the OS.
 
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b.la

macrumors member
Oct 19, 2021
75
82
I'm a developer for probably more years than you have been an adult. So yes, I know exactly how it works and your misconceptions are mighty, but then again that is the value of Apple marketing.
Well I guess I better congratulate you on retirement. Things have changed since your day.
 
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chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,843
11,745
Erm, you do understand they’re the same chip right? I don’t know what nonsense you’re looking at but any slight variation in performance will not be perceivable by a person using it.

In workloads that tax the CPU for an extended period of time (20 minutes, say), the Air's lack of fan will require it to throttle.
 

b.la

macrumors member
Oct 19, 2021
75
82
I do understand that but my original comment was related someone stating they needed their Mac Mini to have ‘max performance’ and getting precious about people accepting iPad performance in a desktop machine. I do understand there are variations in performance specifically over prolonged periods but, my argument is that almost no one using it will know. And, if your workflow is hindered by the lack of a fan, you’ve under spec’d it because it will make that minute of a difference.

People here seem to think there is a significant change in performance for say an M2 chip in an iPad or a MacBook Air and a Mini with a fan. I’m just saying there isn’t.
 

ric22

macrumors 68030
Mar 8, 2022
2,677
2,774
Erm, you do understand they’re the same chip right? I don’t know what nonsense you’re looking at but any slight variation in performance will not be perceivable by a person using it. Again, the main difference in experience here is going to be the OS.
🤦‍♂️ Do a cursory Google before criticising someone. Without active cooling the same M series chips cannot maintain the same sustained performance. The difference can be quite significant, not 'slight'!
 

chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,843
11,745
I do understand that but my original comment was related someone stating they needed their Mac Mini to have ‘max performance’

…which is accurate.

if your workflow is hindered by the lack of a fan, you’ve under spec’d it because it will make that minute of a difference.

That I agree with. If the difference matters to you, perhaps you're actually in the market for an M4 Pro.

People here seem to think there is a significant change in performance for say an M2 chip in an iPad or a MacBook Air and a Mini with a fan. I’m just saying there isn’t.

What I take issue with is you attacking people for having an accurate opinion. Yes, the difference won't affect most users, but it absolutely exists.
 

derek

macrumors member
Aug 3, 2001
73
102
Syracuse, NY
Q: Can it be used in a server stack?
-> At this point in time, with vast data devouring tech-of-the-day systems demanding seemingly endless computing power (crypto, "AI", surveillance...) the way to gather in the cash is to sell quick and easy units ready to stack, network and crunch. Apple has consistently failed in that department. Teeny with BIG POWER and reliable cooling in QED interleaved piles, vs the old server blade system, could tip that table.
Q: Could M4 SOCs relieve the GPU drought created by the above?
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,266
1,588
It requires less aluminum and other materials to make it smaller. Apple saves on the cost of building them and maybe even more on the cost of shipping them from China. Being thinner saves money for Apple.
AppleTV went slightly smaller and a lot lighter between second and third generation 4k models. I don't think it affected retail price so it's definitely cheaper for Apple - maybe not so cheap for the consumers :(

Best we can hope for here is no price increase to absorb the cost of the redesign
 
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b.la

macrumors member
Oct 19, 2021
75
82
…which is accurate.



That I agree with. If the difference matters to you, perhaps you're actually in the market for an M4 Pro.



What I take issue with is you attacking people for having an accurate opinion. Yes, the difference won't affect most users, but it absolutely exists.
Attacking is a strong word and if you look back, I wasn’t the only one throwing stones, but I get your point.
 

b.la

macrumors member
Oct 19, 2021
75
82
🤦‍♂️ Do a cursory Google before criticising someone. Without active cooling the same M series chips cannot maintain the same sustained performance. The difference can be quite significant, not 'slight'!
I get that when you look at benchmarks it appears significant, but in real world use it isn’t. Please do not make an Apple computer purchase decision based on a fan. If you feel you need more power than the new iPad Pro, prolonged or not, you’ll likely need a machine with a pro chip in or higher.
 

chucker23n1

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2014
8,843
11,745
I get that when you look at benchmarks it appears significant, but in real world use it isn’t. Please do not make an Apple computer purchase decision based on a fan. If you feel you need more power than the new iPad Pro, prolonged or not, you’ll likely need a machine with a pro chip in or higher.

I lean towards agreeing with this.
 

drrich2

macrumors 6502
Jan 11, 2005
292
219
The USB-A ports serve a purpose; they make adding a wide selection of wireless keyboards and mice with a USB receiver (I like Bluetooth, but the receiver-based are popular), and one of the benefits of the Mini originally was that it could be used with peripherals many people already had lying around (which also includes those old USB-A thumb drives). A USB-C keyboard and mouse might charge faster, I imagine, but otherwise making them USB-C adds nothing for most people.

I imagine wireless will be all the more popular if it's very small, light and slides around easily - so wired keyboards and mice might move a tiny Mac Mini around.

Notebook users may be somewhat used to dongles, adapters and hubs; desktop users are less so. Adding these could easily more than defeat any size reduction in the Mini itself. If a smaller Mini has significantly reduced ports of whatever types, I imagine many users will buy hubs or docks to add ports just as some Mac notebook users do...which will reverse the benefit of lower material usage and packaging for the Mini itself.

On the issue of desirability of miniaturization 'because they can,' yes, for applications like packing a number of them into a small space (e.g.: a rack) it might be nice, but what % of the Mac Mini market is that relevant for? If really small, it may slide around easily (not a huge issue, but irksome to some).

Another downside of a tiny Mini is it would fit easily into a coat pocket, small bag, etc... Workplace theft could be a problem. If small and unobtrusive is the minimalist goal, I can imagine one with a Kensington port cable securing it to the desk.

The idea came up of a 'mini-Mini' one could stick to the back of a monitor, all the better if powered by USB-C PD since a very short Thunderbolt cable to a Thunderbolt monitor and BAM, DIY iMac (with option for non-Apple monitor!). Yeah, but from the side or rear that thing will look like a robo-parasite on the monitor. People will do it, but I doubt Apple will push it. And the ports back there will be inconvenient (like my iMac's).

While we may debate the desirability of reducing the size, this is already modeled for us in the PC world - there are 'nano' PCs, small/medium tower units and large towers. Perhaps things have changed; I've historically thought the nanos were a small niche in the market, and most people chose larger desktops (if they didn't opt for notebooks), and the option to add in HDD, SSD, RAM and PCI graphics cards was a big draw (though Apple, and I think the new Snapdragon ARM-based PCs, take RAM and non-integrated graphics expansion off the table).

Since PC users have a lot more choice, how many opt for the tiniest PC possible? What do the people who have cost-effective choices do?

The question becomes, is the Mini a headless (and keyboard less) notebook or desktop? Functionally, it appears to be the former.
 

jagooch

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2009
801
246
Denver, co
I’m way out of the loop on Mini’s . Any chance for 10 Gbe port and user expandable memory and storage?

Or did that ship sail already? My last Mini was a 2018 Intel.
 

Chuckeee

macrumors 68030
Aug 18, 2023
2,635
7,474
Southern California
I’m way out of the loop on Mini’s . Any chance for 10 Gbe port and user expandable memory and storage?

Or did that ship sail already? My last Mini was a 2018 Intel.
First no one really knows, we are all just guessing. But this is a rumor site

10 GBe, strongly doubt it would be part of the default entry configuration. Perhaps as an option. Possibly not at all.

User expandable memory or storage. That would be a wonderful surprise but I strongly doubt Apple would change course and offer such an option. Especially with the Mac mini getting miniaturized. Not really a valid excuse (especially for storage), but I doubt Apple will change their current trend of soldering it all down. Even replaceable SSD modules (like in a Studio) would be nice but I doubt apple would even do that for an entry level product like the Mac mini.

Heck adding an NVMe slot would be very unlikely Apple design variation but a wonderful surprise if it happened.
 

gulu23

macrumors newbie
Feb 23, 2010
3
2
The current Mac mini base model has 10 gigabit Ethernet for $125CAD.

Ethernet​

Mac mini has some of the most versatile ports and connectivity options of any Mac, allowing it to serve and adapt to a wide variety of situations and workflows.
Mac mini comes as standard with Gigabit Ethernet networking. For faster network connections, Mac mini can be configured with 10Gb Ethernet, which supports 1Gb, 2.5Gb, 5Gb and 10Gb link speeds. With 10Gb Ethernet, Mac mini will provide higher connectivity bandwidth for sharing files and working with high-performance network storage.

Upgrading a very old Mac mini —
I have decided I will return my brand new M2 Mac mini to Costco to future proof for OS X updates. I heard base model rumours of 12GB of Ram - I was going to upgrade it to 16 GB for $250. This will save me money with my use case. I already purchased a thunderbolt 4 external enclosure to run a 4TB M.2 NVMe.
 
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nottorp

macrumors 6502a
May 12, 2014
505
614
Romania
Does anyone anticipate any physical improvements, aside from the new SoC, such as ports on the front? 28 pages of doom and gloom, aside from a couple of people cheerful that less aluminium will be used and the packaging can shrink a tad too.

Of course we predict doom and gloom, because that's what has happened in our recent experience when Apple made a product smaller. And I'm not only talking about the emoji keyboard laptops which were a disaster, but also about the mac minis that now have an extra power brick with the ethernet port on it ?!? What's the point of an all in one if you have boxes hanging off it?

Do you see anything possibly beneficial for users in that rumor? Like more speed, more default ram, MORE PORTS?
 

ric22

macrumors 68030
Mar 8, 2022
2,677
2,774
Of course we predict doom and gloom, because that's what has happened in our recent experience when Apple made a product smaller. And I'm not only talking about the emoji keyboard laptops which were a disaster, but also about the mac minis that now have an extra power brick with the ethernet port on it ?!? What's the point of an all in one if you have boxes hanging off it?

Do you see anything possibly beneficial for users in that rumor? Like more speed, more default ram, MORE PORTS?
No, I expect Apple to make it worse in almost every way too (SoC aside)- an exercise in pushing more people to the Studio. I hope I'm proven wrong.
 

polyphenol

macrumors 68020
Sep 9, 2020
2,006
2,389
Wales
The idea came up of a 'mini-Mini' one could stick to the back of a monitor, all the better if powered by USB-C PD since a very short Thunderbolt cable to a Thunderbolt monitor and BAM, DIY iMac (with option for non-Apple monitor!). Yeah, but from the side or rear that thing will look like a robo-parasite on the monitor. People will do it, but I doubt Apple will push it. And the ports back there will be inconvenient (like my iMac's).
Having mulled this for a few days, I think my answer would be something like this:

The new mini will have an iMac-style power brick with Ethernet. This will be standard across most minis.

But it will also be usable on USB-C-only power. Though with limits on the power that can be delivered by its own USB-C sockets. If you carry your mini around, you can get by using any USB-C power supply of sufficient wattage and Wifi/Bluetooth so long as you minimise peripheral usage.

For racks, let several minis daisychain using USB-C/Thunderbolt for power and connectivity with only one in four, or six, or eight actually needing power brick Ethernet. (Obviously, feasibility depends on what their function is.) If an M4 mini requires under 70 watts, two minis could be daisy-chained with the second getting power as well as connectivity from the first - assuming the power brick is 143W. This also suggests minis destined for racks should be available without power supply bricks.
 
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