Does anyone anticipate any physical improvements, aside from the new SoC, such as ports on the front? 28 pages of doom and gloom, aside from a couple of people cheerful that less aluminium will be used and the packaging can shrink a tad too.
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M4 Mac Mini to Become Apple's Smallest Ever Computer With Complete Redesign
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Erm, you do understand they’re the same chip right? I don’t know what nonsense you’re looking at but any slight variation in performance will not be perceivable by a person using it. Again, the main difference in experience here is going to be the OS.
Well I guess I better congratulate you on retirement. Things have changed since your day.
In workloads that tax the CPU for an extended period of time (20 minutes, say), the Air's lack of fan will require it to throttle.
I do understand that but my original comment was related someone stating they needed their Mac Mini to have ‘max performance’ and getting precious about people accepting iPad performance in a desktop machine. I do understand there are variations in performance specifically over prolonged periods but, my argument is that almost no one using it will know. And, if your workflow is hindered by the lack of a fan, you’ve under spec’d it because it will make that minute of a difference.
People here seem to think there is a significant change in performance for say an M2 chip in an iPad or a MacBook Air and a Mini with a fan. I’m just saying there isn’t.
People here seem to think there is a significant change in performance for say an M2 chip in an iPad or a MacBook Air and a Mini with a fan. I’m just saying there isn’t.
🤦♂️ Do a cursory Google before criticising someone. Without active cooling the same M series chips cannot maintain the same sustained performance. The difference can be quite significant, not 'slight'!
…which is accurate.
That I agree with. If the difference matters to you, perhaps you're actually in the market for an M4 Pro.
What I take issue with is you attacking people for having an accurate opinion. Yes, the difference won't affect most users, but it absolutely exists.
Q: Can it be used in a server stack?
-> At this point in time, with vast data devouring tech-of-the-day systems demanding seemingly endless computing power (crypto, "AI", surveillance...) the way to gather in the cash is to sell quick and easy units ready to stack, network and crunch. Apple has consistently failed in that department. Teeny with BIG POWER and reliable cooling in QED interleaved piles, vs the old server blade system, could tip that table.
Q: Could M4 SOCs relieve the GPU drought created by the above?
-> At this point in time, with vast data devouring tech-of-the-day systems demanding seemingly endless computing power (crypto, "AI", surveillance...) the way to gather in the cash is to sell quick and easy units ready to stack, network and crunch. Apple has consistently failed in that department. Teeny with BIG POWER and reliable cooling in QED interleaved piles, vs the old server blade system, could tip that table.
Q: Could M4 SOCs relieve the GPU drought created by the above?
absolutely no. the best thing with the mini is that it has a built in PSU
Maybe not the best thing, but I agree with you that desktops should have built in PSUs.
AppleTV went slightly smaller and a lot lighter between second and third generation 4k models. I don't think it affected retail price so it's definitely cheaper for Apple - maybe not so cheap for the consumers
Best we can hope for here is no price increase to absorb the cost of the redesign
Improved WiFi and Bluetooth reception. A sore point in the current design.
Attacking is a strong word and if you look back, I wasn’t the only one throwing stones, but I get your point.
Oh sorry, I thought we were just making incorrect assumptions about each other 😉
I get that when you look at benchmarks it appears significant, but in real world use it isn’t. Please do not make an Apple computer purchase decision based on a fan. If you feel you need more power than the new iPad Pro, prolonged or not, you’ll likely need a machine with a pro chip in or higher.
The USB-A ports serve a purpose; they make adding a wide selection of wireless keyboards and mice with a USB receiver (I like Bluetooth, but the receiver-based are popular), and one of the benefits of the Mini originally was that it could be used with peripherals many people already had lying around (which also includes those old USB-A thumb drives). A USB-C keyboard and mouse might charge faster, I imagine, but otherwise making them USB-C adds nothing for most people.
I imagine wireless will be all the more popular if it's very small, light and slides around easily - so wired keyboards and mice might move a tiny Mac Mini around.
Notebook users may be somewhat used to dongles, adapters and hubs; desktop users are less so. Adding these could easily more than defeat any size reduction in the Mini itself. If a smaller Mini has significantly reduced ports of whatever types, I imagine many users will buy hubs or docks to add ports just as some Mac notebook users do...which will reverse the benefit of lower material usage and packaging for the Mini itself.
On the issue of desirability of miniaturization 'because they can,' yes, for applications like packing a number of them into a small space (e.g.: a rack) it might be nice, but what % of the Mac Mini market is that relevant for? If really small, it may slide around easily (not a huge issue, but irksome to some).
Another downside of a tiny Mini is it would fit easily into a coat pocket, small bag, etc... Workplace theft could be a problem. If small and unobtrusive is the minimalist goal, I can imagine one with a Kensington port cable securing it to the desk.
The idea came up of a 'mini-Mini' one could stick to the back of a monitor, all the better if powered by USB-C PD since a very short Thunderbolt cable to a Thunderbolt monitor and BAM, DIY iMac (with option for non-Apple monitor!). Yeah, but from the side or rear that thing will look like a robo-parasite on the monitor. People will do it, but I doubt Apple will push it. And the ports back there will be inconvenient (like my iMac's).
While we may debate the desirability of reducing the size, this is already modeled for us in the PC world - there are 'nano' PCs, small/medium tower units and large towers. Perhaps things have changed; I've historically thought the nanos were a small niche in the market, and most people chose larger desktops (if they didn't opt for notebooks), and the option to add in HDD, SSD, RAM and PCI graphics cards was a big draw (though Apple, and I think the new Snapdragon ARM-based PCs, take RAM and non-integrated graphics expansion off the table).
Since PC users have a lot more choice, how many opt for the tiniest PC possible? What do the people who have cost-effective choices do?
The question becomes, is the Mini a headless (and keyboard less) notebook or desktop? Functionally, it appears to be the former.
I imagine wireless will be all the more popular if it's very small, light and slides around easily - so wired keyboards and mice might move a tiny Mac Mini around.
Notebook users may be somewhat used to dongles, adapters and hubs; desktop users are less so. Adding these could easily more than defeat any size reduction in the Mini itself. If a smaller Mini has significantly reduced ports of whatever types, I imagine many users will buy hubs or docks to add ports just as some Mac notebook users do...which will reverse the benefit of lower material usage and packaging for the Mini itself.
On the issue of desirability of miniaturization 'because they can,' yes, for applications like packing a number of them into a small space (e.g.: a rack) it might be nice, but what % of the Mac Mini market is that relevant for? If really small, it may slide around easily (not a huge issue, but irksome to some).
Another downside of a tiny Mini is it would fit easily into a coat pocket, small bag, etc... Workplace theft could be a problem. If small and unobtrusive is the minimalist goal, I can imagine one with a Kensington port cable securing it to the desk.
The idea came up of a 'mini-Mini' one could stick to the back of a monitor, all the better if powered by USB-C PD since a very short Thunderbolt cable to a Thunderbolt monitor and BAM, DIY iMac (with option for non-Apple monitor!). Yeah, but from the side or rear that thing will look like a robo-parasite on the monitor. People will do it, but I doubt Apple will push it. And the ports back there will be inconvenient (like my iMac's).
While we may debate the desirability of reducing the size, this is already modeled for us in the PC world - there are 'nano' PCs, small/medium tower units and large towers. Perhaps things have changed; I've historically thought the nanos were a small niche in the market, and most people chose larger desktops (if they didn't opt for notebooks), and the option to add in HDD, SSD, RAM and PCI graphics cards was a big draw (though Apple, and I think the new Snapdragon ARM-based PCs, take RAM and non-integrated graphics expansion off the table).
Since PC users have a lot more choice, how many opt for the tiniest PC possible? What do the people who have cost-effective choices do?
The question becomes, is the Mini a headless (and keyboard less) notebook or desktop? Functionally, it appears to be the former.
I’m way out of the loop on Mini’s . Any chance for 10 Gbe port and user expandable memory and storage?
Or did that ship sail already? My last Mini was a 2018 Intel.
Or did that ship sail already? My last Mini was a 2018 Intel.
First no one really knows, we are all just guessing. But this is a rumor site
10 GBe, strongly doubt it would be part of the default entry configuration. Perhaps as an option. Possibly not at all.
User expandable memory or storage. That would be a wonderful surprise but I strongly doubt Apple would change course and offer such an option. Especially with the Mac mini getting miniaturized. Not really a valid excuse (especially for storage), but I doubt Apple will change their current trend of soldering it all down. Even replaceable SSD modules (like in a Studio) would be nice but I doubt apple would even do that for an entry level product like the Mac mini.
Heck adding an NVMe slot would be very unlikely Apple design variation but a wonderful surprise if it happened.
The current Mac mini base model has 10 gigabit Ethernet for $125CAD.
Mac mini comes as standard with Gigabit Ethernet networking. For faster network connections, Mac mini can be configured with 10Gb Ethernet, which supports 1Gb, 2.5Gb, 5Gb and 10Gb link speeds. With 10Gb Ethernet, Mac mini will provide higher connectivity bandwidth for sharing files and working with high-performance network storage.
Upgrading a very old Mac mini —
I have decided I will return my brand new M2 Mac mini to Costco to future proof for OS X updates. I heard base model rumours of 12GB of Ram - I was going to upgrade it to 16 GB for $250. This will save me money with my use case. I already purchased a thunderbolt 4 external enclosure to run a 4TB M.2 NVMe.
Ethernet
Mac mini has some of the most versatile ports and connectivity options of any Mac, allowing it to serve and adapt to a wide variety of situations and workflows.Mac mini comes as standard with Gigabit Ethernet networking. For faster network connections, Mac mini can be configured with 10Gb Ethernet, which supports 1Gb, 2.5Gb, 5Gb and 10Gb link speeds. With 10Gb Ethernet, Mac mini will provide higher connectivity bandwidth for sharing files and working with high-performance network storage.
Upgrading a very old Mac mini —
I have decided I will return my brand new M2 Mac mini to Costco to future proof for OS X updates. I heard base model rumours of 12GB of Ram - I was going to upgrade it to 16 GB for $250. This will save me money with my use case. I already purchased a thunderbolt 4 external enclosure to run a 4TB M.2 NVMe.
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Of course we predict doom and gloom, because that's what has happened in our recent experience when Apple made a product smaller. And I'm not only talking about the emoji keyboard laptops which were a disaster, but also about the mac minis that now have an extra power brick with the ethernet port on it ?!? What's the point of an all in one if you have boxes hanging off it?
Do you see anything possibly beneficial for users in that rumor? Like more speed, more default ram, MORE PORTS?
No, I expect Apple to make it worse in almost every way too (SoC aside)- an exercise in pushing more people to the Studio. I hope I'm proven wrong.
Having mulled this for a few days, I think my answer would be something like this:
The new mini will have an iMac-style power brick with Ethernet. This will be standard across most minis.
But it will also be usable on USB-C-only power. Though with limits on the power that can be delivered by its own USB-C sockets. If you carry your mini around, you can get by using any USB-C power supply of sufficient wattage and Wifi/Bluetooth so long as you minimise peripheral usage.
For racks, let several minis daisychain using USB-C/Thunderbolt for power and connectivity with only one in four, or six, or eight actually needing power brick Ethernet. (Obviously, feasibility depends on what their function is.) If an M4 mini requires under 70 watts, two minis could be daisy-chained with the second getting power as well as connectivity from the first - assuming the power brick is 143W. This also suggests minis destined for racks should be available without power supply bricks.
I can see them removing it, arguing that if you need that, the Studio exists.
Heck, they might make Ethernet an option altogether. The MBPs don't have it either. In that case, it's largely because of space constraints, but many home setups just work with Wi-Fi.
Yep, that ship has sailed.