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My experience is that BT audio has a slight lag, it is fine if you are listening to music but is can be a bit annoying for movies, video and some games. So better off with wired audio.
I agree with that, but this tiny omnidirectional speaker resembles an ornament on the desk and can be placed anywhere, yet it still delivers crisp stereo sound. It’s loud enough, although I don’t tend to listen to anything at high volumes these days. Naturally, I could connect the computer to the LG sound system as well, which is about 3 metres away, using Bluetooth. The Bluetooth connection doesn’t lag, or at least I don’t notice any delay.
While many appear disappointed with the front audio jack on the new mini, I think plugging speakers into primary monitor works great.
Oh, most people seem dissatisfied with just about everything. Yes, plugging the speakers into the primary monitor should work best.
 
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I can say one thing - the cooling system is not successful and not thought out. There will be mixing of air streams. The aerodynamics is just screwed up.

Which university gave you your doctorate in fluid dynamics? I presume you have one in order to make such a confident statement.
 
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Apple’s tech specs list max continuous power for the mini at 155W. The MBP 14” with the same chip makes do with a 96W adapter (same adapter for the Max chip too). In the past they haven’t drastically changed the power consumption between m-series chips between laptops and desktops, so it’s reasonable to guess that 155W is at least twice what the mini itself could actually use. This leads me to assume they are leaving more headroom for powering usb-c devices. I can’t think of where else all that power would be going.
Ooh, great correction.

I forgot that Apple also lists the maximum power usage of its computers in a support document too. The M2 in the Mac mini is 50 W maximum and the M2 Pro in the Mac mini is 100 W. The M2 Max in the Mac Studio is 145 W. I wonder if there are real processes that can pull that much power.

And yes, they need to leave room for USB/TB port power. Out of the 155 W, 3 TB5 ports at 15 W and 1 USBC bus gets 10 W, which leaves about 100 W for the SoC. Need about 10 W for 8 TB NAND?
 
but are only giving us 3 Thunderbolt 4 ports on the Mac mini. How are the two front USB 3.2 Gen 2 being implemented?

Most likely the same way they did 2 'plain' USB-C ports on iMac

Step 10 iMac M1 teardown
e1SyUWhu5CCZOInO.large



the red square ASMedia ASM 3142 discrete USB controllers. Since the M1 there has been around four x1 PCI-e v4 (for stuff like Ethernet. Wifi-Bluetooth , audio , etc. ).



Similar issue with Studio Max configuration...
" ... WHOA! There are 2 issues here. The first is the major degradation in speeds compared to the intel mac mini. Something is wrong with the Studio M1 Max front ports. They are degraded. Issue 2 is that both ports seem to be run off a single USB controller so that the max bandwidth is 10Gbit COMBINED from the front 2 ports! ..."

Just buy an off the shelf USB controller that they pragmatically need to support in nominal driver support anyway ( as it will appear in some Thunderbolt devices. Same reason easy way to provision two USB-C ports with just a one x1 lane) )

If they found a newer discrete USB controller that takes x1 PCI-v4 as input perhaps it performs better provisioning both sockets concurrently. [ The ASM 3142 has two inputs but Apple only hooks up one. They'd need a x1 v4 -> x2 v3 switch to do both lanes but that would be more money. ]


One PCI-e lane off the SoC is going to take up substantively less edge space than trying to do 'optional front port' on the SoC die (i.e., trying to move yet another discrete USB controller's logic onto the main die. )
 
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Ooh, great correction.

I forgot that Apple also lists the maximum power usage of its computers in a support document too. The M2 in the Mac mini is 50 W maximum and the M2 Pro in the Mac mini is 100 W. The M2 Max in the Mac Studio is 145 W. I wonder if there are real processes that can pull that much power.

And yes, they need to leave room for USB/TB port power. Out of the 155 W, 3 TB5 ports at 15 W and 1 USBC bus gets 10 W, which leaves about 100 W for the SoC. Need about 10 W for 8 TB NAND?
I could be wrong but I think the power bus is shared between USB ports, maybe 65W total or something in this case? And there are some tech blogs that have measured power consumption of past chips—I think I remember one pushing an M3 Max up to 140W in a short burst of combined CPU and GPU stress. I don’t think anything is going to burn that much continually. Even machines that don’t ever “throttle”, like the Mac Studio, still don’t typically max out all frequencies on all cores at the same time.
 
Don't get me wrong, I want it to succeed, as the Pro chip makes more sense for my audio/music work. Maybe Apple did some engineering "magic" on the new Mac Mini, but that seems unlikely given the limitations of heat transfer mechanics
Isn't this question answerable by just waiting until we have benchmarks of sustained performance between the M4 Pro MacBook Pro models and the M4 Pro Mac mini? If there's a noticeable, consistent difference in favor of the MacBook Pros, there's an argument that the mini's weaker cooling system hurts its performance. If not, the argument is disproved.
 
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Apple clearly laid out their primary chassis development objective. .... use less Aluminum.

They have gone from TWO down to one air vent. ( the input air shares a bottom vent with the output air). That means to move the same amount of air through the Mini chassis that it would need to move faster. Faster velocity air isn't likely going to produce more quiet.

The old mini had more capacity, but they are tossing low velocity flow capacity by 'halving' the air for air to flow through.
You don't know that.

You'd need to know the airflow capacity of the vents on each model, how inflow/outflow is segregated on the new Mini (you make a good point about the old nMP), etc. We don't even know if the fan is larger or smaller on the new mini. (Or if there are two?)

Chances are the new unit is slightly less capable than the old one, but the old one was probably significantly overengineered.

Most people here (probably not you) seem to think that having a big volume of dead space inside the box will improve cooling. They don't understand physics. You could build a Mini with no airspace at all with good cooling, and some have done something like that in the industrial PC arena (couple everything direct to the case, case is a big heatsink with fins).

Yes, we won't know for sure until it's out, but all this worrying is nuts. If there's one thing Apple's been 100% consistent about since they started making their own chips, it's that they care about power, heat, and noise.

How are the two front USB 3.2 Gen 2 being implemented?
Could be everything hangs off one of the TB controllers, but more likely a couple of PCIe4/5 lanes. One v4 lane is good for nominally 2GBps (16Gbps).

Honestly I've been a bit surprised that they haven't built their own mini-PCH-like chip, driving USB & Ethernet, already. Perhaps that's all waiting on the development of their in-house WiFi and Bluetooth.
 
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...Unless Apple has pulled off some engineering marvel, there's simply no way to effectively offload the necessary heat from the M4 Pro chip during sustained high CPU loads. There is a heat pipe there, but that's pretty much it.

...They could easily have made the new Mac Mini 30-40% larger, and it would still be small and portable, but with more beefy cooling for a silent experience, and non-throttling CPU.

Hi. I contribute to a distributed computing project called World Community Grid. I have 15 Mac Mini Mx machines (all base models) in use...5 M1 machines and 10 M2 machines.

These 15 machines run at full throttle 24x7 and have been since the day they were plugged in. These Minis:

1)They are all still deathly silent and I don't hear any fans (if they are running)
2)They are barely (and I mean barely) warm
3)They use about 25 watts of power
4)They produce about 80% the crunching power of my older Intel Core i9-9900 vPro Windows machines, which, are quite loud with fans running, give off a lot of heat, and use about 100 watts of power.

If the M4 model is anything like the M1 and M2 models, you shouldn't have any complaints about heat or noise. Again, mine have been running for years (literally) 24x7 with the CPU pegged.

I'm looking forward to seeing performance/heat/power reviews of the Mini M4 over the next few days.
 
The reviews have already started to come out.

Base M4 is silent. Pro can be heard, but I haven't yet seen any quantitative information. So far reviews suggest you'd have to do something really extreme to get noise, like running continuous benchmarks. The use case of the OP is unlikely to be a problem, but again, we still don't know yet.
 
Seems like apple is aware that the m4pro cooling is problematic in the small mini housing when the cpu runs at limit. To avoid much noise you can switch to low power mode, see https://www.macrumors.com/2024/11/07/high-power-mode-for-m4-pro-macs/. Form limits function.
No. The cooling is perfectly fine, quiet and is working as designed. That’s what the linked reviewer said.

Apple offers a high power mode where the fan will be ramped up to provide the extra few percent for sustained loads, like a compute server. Otherwise, a user can’t tell the difference between regular and high power modes, and therefore doesn’t need high power mode.

None of Apple’s coterie of reviewers and 99% of its users are in HPC and therefore don’t need the mode. Yes, the videographers are not high performance compute users. Neither are gamers nor programmers.
 
I've seen some of the early videos about the Mac Mini, with the M4 Pro chip - not really proper reviews, but they are stating that under heavy loads (like exporting 4K videos) the fans will ramp up and make quite a bit of noise. Nothing about temps though. This is still kinda unspecific tbh.

A more relevant question is how it works while doing heavy photo or video editing, or working on a large, demanding Logic Pro project or something - will it stay silent then? We'll probably know in another day or two...
 
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I've seen some of the early videos about the Mac Mini, with the M4 Pro chip - not really proper reviews, but they are stating that under heavy loads (like exporting 4K videos) the fans will ramp up and make quite a bit of noise. Nothing about temps though. This is still kinda unspecific tbh.

A more relevant question is how it works while doing heavy photo or video editing, or working on a large, demanding Logic Pro project or something - will it stay silent then? We'll probably know in another day or two...
I use an M2 Pro for large, demanding Logic Pro projects and it has always been dead silent, even with the cpu pegged for extended periods. Just saying…
 
Isn't this question answerable by just waiting until we have benchmarks of sustained performance between the M4 Pro MacBook Pro models and the M4 Pro Mac mini? If there's a noticeable, consistent difference in favor of the MacBook Pros, there's an argument that the mini's weaker cooling system hurts its performance. If not, the argument is disproved.
@Peter_M

As I said, benchmarks answer this question, and seem to cast doubt on your claim. https://wccftech.com/m4-faster-in-mac-mini-than-macbook-pro-in-premiere-pro-4k/

The Mac mini is faster than the MacBook Pro with fans (but 5 seconds slower in Premiere Pro 4K than the iMac).
 
Another look at the innards

Thanks!

Apple always has very interesting packaging, thermal, speaker and antenna design. Very unique antenna and thermal design here. Speaker seems to have a reverb chamber. The thermal design is excellent. A 3rd or 4th try at thermal design for a squarish box of a computer, and this one looks very good, very refined.
 
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I use an M2 Pro for large, demanding Logic Pro projects and it has always been dead silent, even with the cpu pegged for extended periods. Just saying…
Different form factor with more room for airflow and cooling. That is the entire point of this discussion.
 
I’m starting to get the feeling that fan noise is only triggered by the High Perf mode.
The fact that the Mini gets warm is not a deal breaker. But as an audio engineer, the noise is a bit more worrying.
Will have to wait for some more reviews before pulling the trigger, tho.
 
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