I`d rather have no front ports at all, but they will be advantageous for many. Don`t know how the TB/USB controllers are set up but I imagined 1 controller for 2 ports. Might be that the 2 front USB and one TB in the rear share one controller who handles both. Assume Cost/RRP/Profitmargin is the reason for it, but there also might be technical limitation - i.e. max 2 controllers and max 2 TB each controller. It also might be that the total transfer capacity and bandwidth will be thrown off balance with 5 or 6 TB ports. Speculation.
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M4 Pro Mac mini - form over function?
- Thread starter Peter_M
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Jumping into this thread. I think thermal properties of this enclosure is something to watch and get out of the reviews. That said, it still is a pretty big square and volume compared to a laptop. And Apple is putting an M4 Max into a laptop. So this should be fine. Though maybe the much larger surface area of a laptop helps on the thermals. I'm not sure. But if the mini doesn't have excellent thermal properties, then we can say that Apple went too far in making it mini.
I'd love to see a more detailed description of how everything in the Apple Silicon macs, past and present, is connected.
What we do know is that M1-M3 had 2 TB/USB4 controllers on the regular, 4 on the Pro and Max and 8 on the Ultra (on the Mac Pro - "rationed" to 6 on the Studio Ultra). Whether those ports were "TB/USB4" or full "TB 4" seemed to depend mainly on how many displays the particular chip could support via TB, since TB4 branding requires at least 2.
We also know that the M1 and M2 Mac Minis managed to offer the full complement of USB4/TB ports (2 on the regular, 4 on the Pro) and still offer HDMI, up to 10G Ethernet, and at least one extra USB controller for the two USB-A ports.
Meanwhile, the M1/M2 Max Studio supported the full 4 TB4 ports and HDMI and 10G Ethernet and at least one up-to-10Gbps USB3.2 controller (for the extra USB-A and front USB-C ports) and a PCIe-driven SD card reader.
Point being - it looks like the M1-M3 chips had "spare" USB and/or PCIe lines apart from the USB4 controllers and could support the "extra" ports on Minis and Studios without sacrificing a full-blown TB/USB4 controller - and indeed the 10 core M4 iMac offers the full complement of 4 TB4 ports - plus an internal display (in lieu of HDMI) and internal ethernet controller (the controller chip shows up in teardowns - the "ethernet" power supply is just providing the socket) plus a webcam (presumably USB internally).
So it seems pretty likely that the "missing" TB4 on the Mini is down to space and cost (for Apple, not us!) savings (cuts out a socket and a TB re-timer chip).
That's maybe not so bad on the base Mini - which still gets an extra TB port overall vs M2 - but a bit shabby on the M4 Pro Mini when the M2 Pro had the full 4 sockets. OK, so TB5 vs 4, which is nice - but 80/120Gbps on 3 ports vs. 40Gbps on each of 4 ports is only really going to be a gain for a few users with 8k and/or HFR 5k displays or ridiculously fast storage arrays - and at best will need a TB5 hub to share the bandwidth amongst multiple TB3/4/5/USB3 devices (there's no advantage for USB devices alone - it's effectively just a USB 3.2 hub - unless it's shared with TB or displayport devices).
As someone else already pointed out, the M4 Pro Mac mini gets copper cooling, whereas the M4 Mac mini gets aluminum. This is similar to the Mac Studio where the Mx Ultra gets copper cooling, but the Mx Max gets aluminum.
It would appear Apple believes the same form factors of the Mac mini and Mac Studio can both accommodate two different classes of chips in terms of power consumption and heat dissipation, but require different cooling methods to accomplish this.
The good news that outside the quiet whine with the M1 series Mac Studio, very few people complain about noise with the Mac Studio even under moderate to relatively heavy load, whether it's Mx Max or Mx Ultra. I would hazard to guess that Apple has engineered the Mac mini with somewhat similar noise level targets, for both M4 and M4 Pro.
In contrast, the 2017 iMac Core i7 I bought was as loud as a vacuum cleaner after 30 s of full load. It was a disaster. I returned it and bought the mid-tier i5 (not even the fastest i5) and it was silent. It was awesome in comparison. Interestingly, the iMac Pro, released the same year and in the same form factor, was silent under similar loads despite running much hotter CPUs. Apple redesigned the cooling to accomplish this. Too bad they didn't use this cooling in the i7 model.
Yes, I was overjoyed to see 5 ports on the M4 Mac mini. I was hopeful for that, but was not expecting it all, especially since there are only Thunderbolt 4 controllers in M4 and because Gurman said there existed a 3-port version in the labs.
I was fully expecting the M4 Pro to get 5 USB ports, but yes it's a downer that it's fewer than before. OTOH, those three Thunderbolt ports are Thunderbolt 5. Maybe they will better support high bandwidth Thunderbolt hubs... well maybe 2 years down the line when they actually exist.
The US$400 price premium for the M4 Pro in the Mac mini is irritating though. It's only $200 in the MacBook Pro. If the M4 Pro had been only $200 more, I probably would have bought it, even though I don't need it. You lost an upsale here Apple!
No, its not $200 in MBP. Its also $400.
As someone else already pointed out, the M4 Pro Mac mini gets copper cooling, whereas the M4 Mac mini gets aluminum. This is similar to the Mac Studio where the Mx Ultra gets copper cooling, but the Mx Max gets aluminum.
It would appear Apple believes the same form factors of the Mac mini and Mac Studio can both accommodate two different classes of chips in terms of power consumption and heat dissipation, but require different cooling methods to accomplish this.
The good news that outside the quiet whine with the M1 series Mac Studio, very few people complain about noise with the Mac Studio even under moderate to relatively heavy load, whether it's Mx Max or Mx Ultra. I would hazard to guess that Apple has engineered the Mac mini with somewhat similar noise level targets, for both M4 and M4 Pro.
In contrast, the 2017 iMac Core i7 I bought was as loud as a vacuum cleaner after 30 s of full load. It was a disaster. I returned it and bought the mid-tier i5 (not even the fastest i5) and it was silent. It was awesome in comparison. Interestingly, the iMac Pro, released the same year and in the same form factor, was silent under similar loads despite running much hotter CPUs. Apple redesigned the cooling to accomplish this. Too bad they didn't use this cooling in the i7 model.
Yes, I was overjoyed to see 5 ports on the M4 Mac mini. I was hopeful for that, but was not expecting it all, especially since there are only Thunderbolt 4 controllers in M4 and because Gurman said there existed a 3-port version in the labs.
I was fully expecting the M4 Pro to get 5 USB ports, but yes it's a downer that it's fewer than before. OTOH, those three Thunderbolt ports are Thunderbolt 5. Maybe they will better support high bandwidth Thunderbolt hubs... well maybe 2 years down the line when they actually exist.
The US$400 price premium for the M4 Pro in the Mac mini is irritating though. It's only $200 in the MacBook Pro. If the M4 Pro had been only $200 more, I probably would have bought it, even though I don't need it. You lost an upsale here Apple!
It's a $400 difference with the MBP because the M4 Pro comes with 24 GB RAM, whereas the M4 comes with 16 GB RAM. If you spec both with 24 GB RAM, the difference is only $200.
In contrast, it's a $600 difference between the Mac mini M4 Pro 24 GB / 512 GB vs. the M4 16 GB / 512 GB. If you spec both with 24 GB RAM, the difference is $400.
Actually for the Mac mini, the base model M4 is only $599 vs. $1399 for the M4 Pro, which is an $800 difference, but that's because the base model M4 only comes with 16 GB / 256 GB vs 24 GB / 512 GB for the M4 Pro.
Right, I see how you look at it. Yeah, that would be better if it was consistent for sure
In addition to mac mini, I also have a gaming PC that I built (as I'm sure others here have). In a standard mid-tower case, you typically configure your side and bottom fans for intake, and your rear and top fans for exhaust. So, for example I have a case fan exhaust at rear and 3 exhaust fans on top for the CPU AIO cooler (as well as the heat coming from the video card from below).
Having heat exhaust on the bottom of the mac is...interesting. I'm not sure why you would go against physics and channel hot air down when it could have been channeled to the sides through some attractive meshes. Anyway, I guess I will see how it goes.
Having heat exhaust on the bottom of the mac is...interesting. I'm not sure why you would go against physics and channel hot air down when it could have been channeled to the sides through some attractive meshes. Anyway, I guess I will see how it goes.
The M2 Max Studio weighs 5.9 lbs. The M4 Pro Mini weighs 1.6 lbs. The 4.3 lbs weight differential appears to come from the aluminum enclosure and the thermal system in each. I'm very interested in how the M4 Pro Mini operates under heavy load.As someone else already pointed out, the M4 Pro Mac mini gets copper cooling, whereas the M4 Mac mini gets aluminum. This is similar to the Mac Studio where the Mx Ultra gets copper cooling, but the Mx Max gets aluminum.
It would appear Apple believes the same form factors of the Mac mini and Mac Studio can both accommodate two different classes of chips in terms of power consumption and heat dissipation, but require different cooling methods to accomplish this.
The good news that outside the quiet whine with the M1 series Mac Studio, very few people complain about noise with the Mac Studio even under moderate to relatively heavy load, whether it's Mx Max or Mx Ultra. I would hazard to guess that Apple has engineered the Mac mini with somewhat similar noise level targets, for both M4 and M4 Pro.
In contrast, the 2017 iMac Core i7 I bought was as loud as a vacuum cleaner after 30 s of full load. It was a disaster. I returned it and bought the mid-tier i5 (not even the fastest i5) and it was silent. It was awesome in comparison. Interestingly, the iMac Pro, released the same year and in the same form factor, was silent under similar loads despite running much hotter CPUs. Apple redesigned the cooling to accomplish this. Too bad they didn't use this cooling in the i7 model.
Yes, I was overjoyed to see 5 ports on the M4 Mac mini. I was hopeful for that, but was not expecting it all, especially since there are only Thunderbolt 4 controllers in M4 and because Gurman said there existed a 3-port version in the labs.
I was fully expecting the M4 Pro to get 5 USB ports, but yes it's a downer that it's fewer than before. OTOH, those three Thunderbolt ports are Thunderbolt 5. Maybe they will better support high bandwidth Thunderbolt hubs... well maybe 2 years down the line when they actually exist.
The US$400 price premium for the M4 Pro in the Mac mini is irritating though. It's only $200 in the MacBook Pro. If the M4 Pro had been only $200 more, I probably would have bought it, even though I don't need it. You lost an upsale here Apple!
99% of the heat transfer is from the fan blowing across the heatsink, the finned piece of metal (aluminum or copper) that the fan blows air over.
Where this exhaust goes out of the box doesn’t really matter save for a direction that blocks the flow, which can reduce the amount of air going over the heat sink. The flow is directed out the side of the foot in the Mac mini. It’s fine. It is basically the same as your AIO CPU cooler.
For your gaming rig, you can take your AIO liquid cooler and just run it outside and pointing down. It will be fine. Those 3 “exhaust” fans aren’t exhaust fans per se. They are blowing air across a heat sink, which is the cold side of the heat pipe connected to the CPU. The blowing of air across the finned heat sink is moving the CPU’s heat out of your gaming box.
Blowing air out of the box, exhaust yes, but the heatsink is downstream of those fans and it is the process that moves heat out of box.
This is probably the most confusing part of the original post. Not only is it a generalization, it makes little sense. The Mac mini isn't remotely comparable to an iPad.
- It has no built in monitor or input mechanism (touch screen).
- It does not run iPad OS.
- It has multiple external ports (esp. compared with an iPad)
- It has a fan (the iPad doesn't)
- It has no Touch ID or Face ID.
- It has no cameras
- It has no built in speakers.
My best guess is that OP is also disdainful of the iPad and decided to lump it together with the Mac mini as what the OP perceives as the epitomes of "form over function".
Use an audio interface with USB-C. You’ll get better quality and features than built in audio interface the Mac.
I use a Rode AI-1 with JBL 305 Mk2 powered speakers via balanced audio outputs - sounds really good and not too $$
Overall I agree but the previous (and probably the new) mini does have a speaker. It is small, tinny and practical useless (except for start up tone) but it does exist
With this compact omnidirectional bluetooth speaker, that issue can be easily resolved...😊
My experience is that BT audio has a slight lag, it is fine if you are listening to music but is can be a bit annoying for movies, video and some games. So better off with wired audio.
While many appear disappointed with the front audio jack on the new mini, I think plugging speakers into primary monitor works great.
The Mac mini is basically a "Mac Studio" designed for an M4 and M4 Pro, even down to using an aluminum heatsink for the lower end SoC and a copper heatsink for the higher end SOC. This new Mac mini's design is going to have the same noise requirements as the Mac Studio, if not better. It may have coil whine and unforeseen noises that they could not fix in time for the first production run, but they will get to it.
It's going to be quiet just like any other Mac. It will output some heat when it is fully loaded on combined CPU+GPU loads, like exhaust temps in the 120 °F range. All the way to human touch requirements, which is about 120.
This 5x5x2 Mac mini will not run a M4 Max. The power supply is in the Mac mini. Just look at the size differences between Apple's 70 W, 96 W and 140 W external power bricks. You have to stuff those power supply internals into the Mac mini, and remove the commensurate heat from them. So, it probably has something like a 90 W power supply in it. An M4 Max will need about 50% more. The fans and heat sinks will need to be bigger to remove the additional heat, and it is already use copper for an M4 Pro. Not enough volume in a 5x5x2 box.
One thing I've thought about them doing is to just repurposing the MBP motherboards for the Mac mini. It would basically be a slab about 11x5x0.5 inches. Wanting an internal power supply always nukes that. If you don't want to have certain compromises, it always drives you to custom design.
I fully agree that "The use cases are so different" however I can "imagine how anyone could equate the two" because IMO it comes directly from Apple's misleading iPad Pro marketing.
Wow, talk about being pedantic to the point of absurdity. I obviously ment some people just want a minimalist desktop computer that's cheap and affordable, to the point they don't mind notable compromises in terms of temps and cooling (for the sake of being as small as possible), which I've seen again and again on this forum.
In a few days the first reviews should be out, and we'll see then. Let's hope this new Mac Mini will work well for DAW work without throttling and annoying fan noise. Fingers crossed...
It will probably be good, because Apple usually gets this stuff right (but not always, the coil whine you mentioned and the Trashcan Mac Pro are two examples). I will say that my M2 Pro mini has amazing thermal properties resulting in dead silent fan noises during anything short of gaming. And some of those properties I attribute to the use of the large legacy form factor which is frankly cavernous compared to what is inside it.
Also consider a Mac Studio if you need the additional ports. I use both USB-A ports on my M1 Ultra Mac Studio and really hope they continue to provide those ports (or USB-C) in future versions. I might consider a M4 Ultra as an upgrade, but honestly the M1 Ultra handles everything I throw at it.
This whole power button on the bottom is really not that huge of an issue, seriously. A lot of people use their Macbook Pro's in clamshell mode. The button is inside! You don't hear people complaining about wanting the button on the outer shell?!?
Exactly, and you shouldn't really switch off the computer anyway as that damages it more than the sleep mode.
People really need to stop whining about nonsense.
Power button is totally fine especially with this form factor. You will most likely use it once a year or so anyway
People really need to stop whining about nonsense.
Power button is totally fine especially with this form factor. You will most likely use it once a year or so anyway
You mean the elephant that you will probably touch once every 3 months??? The one that you have to use your pointer finger to apply 0.004lbs of upward pressure to get under the heavy Mini frame and press the button? FFS...
Apple’s tech specs list max continuous power for the mini at 155W. The MBP 14” with the same chip makes do with a 96W adapter (same adapter for the Max chip too). In the past they haven’t drastically changed the power consumption between m-series chips between laptops and desktops, so it’s reasonable to guess that 155W is at least twice what the mini itself could actually use. This leads me to assume they are leaving more headroom for powering usb-c devices. I can’t think of where else all that power would be going.