M5 Apple Silicon Chip Reportedly Enters Mass Production

[lilkwarrior]

The introduction of mini-LED launched displays like the TCL 8-series which had tens of thousands of LEDs in about 1000 zones, and this thousand(s) of dimming zones became one of the defining features of mini-LED.

In contrast, high end FALD TVs of the same time frame were in the hundreds of dimming zones. The Pro Display XDR, which came out around the same time frame as the first mainstream retail mini-LED TVs, had far fewer dimming zones than those mini-LED TVs, again measuring in the hundreds like other FALDs. To be fair, the Pro Display XDR was never marketed as a mini-LED display, and press did not refer to the Pro Display XDR as a mini-LED display either.

So you may think this is an arbitrary distinction and you would be right about that, but again based on numbers of dimming zones, all mini-LED is FALD but not all FALD is mini-LED. The Pro Display XDR falls into FALD category but misses out on the mini-LED subcategory.


I have no idea where you're going with this. Tandem OLED means 2 or more OLEDs stacked. In Apple products this only exists in the iPad Pro. Better tandem OLED in the future will also be tandem OLED, but better.

OTOH, yes the Pro Display XDR has more dimming zones than early FALD displays, but does not have as many dimming zones as the early mini-LED displays. Thus, it has never been categorized in the mini-LED category.

As far as Tandem OLED, earlier OLED panels prior to the ones used by the iPad Pro actually stack OLED panels as well but not as elaborate as the ones branded by LG Display / Samsung today after certain breakthroughs of execution.

Same thing you’re suggesting with particular full array local dimming (FALD) displays being distinctly dense than others to more appropriately be branded the distinction of being Mini-LED FALD but not the ones less dense (Pro Display XDR including the very same trade-offs having one and other FALD more agreeably to you branded as MiniLED such as Asus Pro Art monitors) due to a particular amount of zones possible by modern breakthroughs of execution of the process.

 

[EugW]

As far as Tandem OLED, earlier OLED panels prior to the ones used by the iPad Pro actually stack OLED panels as well but not as elaborate as the ones branded by LG Display / Samsung today after certain breakthroughs of execution.

Yes, there are prior tandem OLEDs as well. However, none were ever used in even iPhones. I don't recall any being used in laptops or tablets either before the iPad Pro, although I could be wrong about that. (There are some now in laptops though.) The technology already existed, but a big change here is the fact it was brought to mass production at pricing suitable for mainstream tablets, with reduced power consumption too. To be specific, the term "tandem OLED" here refers to two full RGB stacks.

If you are talking about OLED TVs with stacked layers, that's different. A TV might have two stacked blue emitting layers plus single red plus single green, but not two full RGB stacks. Those are not called "tandem OLED".

 

[throAU]

The real question is:

Will M5 Pro be faster than M1 Max?

probably. m4 pro is pretty close or even achieves that depending on the workload. cpu wise it does.

 

[EugW]

probably. m4 pro is pretty close or even achieves that depending on the workload. cpu wise it does.

M4 non-Pro is faster than M1 Max for CPU already.

Remember, for the M1 generation, the Pro and Max had the same CPU performance.

 

[throAU]

M4 non-Pro is faster than M1 Max for CPU already.

Yeah figured that would be close too.

There’s been a large amount of IPC and clock speed gain since M1, and teh M1 generation Max only had the same core count as the Pro on the CPU side.

 

[EugW]

Yeah figured that would be close too.

There’s been a large amount of IPC and clock speed gain since M1, and teh M1 generation Max only had the same core count as the Pro on the CPU side.

Also, according to people who have both, M4 non-Pro actually feels faster than M1 Max in every day type usage like surfing, mainly because of the massively improved single-core speed. I can personally vouch for that speedup with M4 non-Pro vs. M1 non-Pro, but I don't have an M1 Max for comparison.

 

[throAU]

Also, according to people who have both, M4 non-Pro actually feels faster than M1 Max in every day type usage like surfing, mainly because of the massively improved single-core speed. I can personally vouch for that speedup with M4 non-Pro vs. M1 non-Pro, but I don't have an M1 Max for comparison.

Definitely.

I’ve had M1 Pro, M1 and M4 max and without being loaded, just general snappiness the M4 generation is much quicker. Also, in line with that - in lightly loaded scenarios, the A15 in my iphone 13 and ipad mini sometimes feels snappier than the m1 (A14 generation cores) in my ipad air.

Because of exactly what you mention above - improved single core performance. More cores are great for heavy duty workload, but there’s no replacement for high throughput single core performance for lightly loaded scenarios.

 

[switz]

I see quicker responses in single core mode for the M4 Pro Mac Mini (64GB & 8TB SSD) when compared to my M1 Ultra Mac Studio (128GB & 8 TB SSD) for starting up. The Ultra multi pound copper heat sink allows for less fan noise as contrasted to the Mini with the same load.

I see similar boot up times comparison between my M1 Max MacBook Pro and my M4 Max MacBook Pro.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I see quicker responses in single core mode for the M4 Pro Mac Mini (64GB & 8TB SSD) when compared to my M1 Ultra Mac Studio (128GB & 8 TB SSD) for starting up. The Ultra multi pound copper heat sink allows for less fan noise as contrasted to the Mini with the same load.

I see similar boot up times comparison between my M1 Max MacBook Pro and my M4 Max MacBook Pro.

Holy smokes 🔥💨

I gotta' ask -- do you have a business use case that justifies and utilizes the "full boat" Mac Mini Pro?

Or perhaps you only upgrade somewhat infrequently?

Holdover until a Studio update perhaps?

 

[switz]

We both jumped from the last 16" Intel powered MacBook Pro laptops to M4 Max MacBook Pros as soon as they were released. She has a 14" (64GB and 4 TB SSD) which covers her uses in spades and I got the 16" (128GB and 8 TB SSD). I will be 80 in April and figure this is probably my last Apple updates. These should easily last seven years and by then I probably won't care. Some other family members were moved to M series devices as well with hand me downs or even new M4 based devices.

Never seen a U-Haul behind a hearse, so I won't be taking it with me.

 

[turbineseaplane]

We both jumped from the last 16" Intel powered MacBook Pro laptops to M4 Max MacBook Pros as soon as they were released. She has a 14" (64GB and 4 TB SSD) which covers her uses in spades and I got the 16" (128GB and 8 TB SSD). I will be 80 in April and figure this is probably my last Apple updates. These should easily last seven years and by then I probably won't care. Some other family members were moved to M series devices as well with hand me downs or even new M4 based devices.

Never seen a U-Haul behind a hearse, so I won't be taking it with me.

I love it!
Ok, it makes even more sense now

I'm glad you went "ALL IN"

 

[Bregalad]

I wonder if the M5 fixes the SLAP and FLOP vulnerabilities. If not, I'll continue to wait.

 

[UltimaKilo]

The new stacking tech could be huge. There’s a real possibility the M5 series could be the biggest leap since the M1.

Too bad the MacBook Air is so incredibly behind on the upgrade schedule.

 

[EugW]

The new stacking tech could be huge. There’s a real possibility the M5 series could be the biggest leap since the M1.

Too bad the MacBook Air is so incredibly behind on the upgrade schedule.

The MacBook Air is not the pro Mac. It doesn't need to have cutting edge SoCs to sell well, because most of the target market doesn't actually care.

 

[throAU]

The MacBook Air is not the pro Mac. It doesn't need to have cutting edge SoCs to sell well, because most of the target market doesn't actually care.

So much this.

The MacBook Air processor/gpu from 10 years ago is more than capable for most MacBook Air users. For basic stuff that the MBA is aimed at, a core2 or sundry bridge core i5 from 10 years ago with sufficient RAM is enough.

I'm not saying that's where apple should have stopped, but seriously, any M series part from the past 5 years is plenty for the MacBook Air for 90% of its users. Upgrades to things like the display, speakers, storage, RAM, wireless networking, etc. are far more noticeable and relevant to that demographic. The SOC has been fast enough for years at this point.

 

[EugW]

The MacBook Air processor/gpu from 10 years ago is more than capable for most MacBook Air users. For basic stuff that the MBA is aimed at, a core2 or sundry bridge core i5 from 10 years ago with sufficient RAM is enough.

I'm not saying that's where apple should have stopped, but seriously, any M series part from the past 5 years is plenty for the MacBook Air for 90% of its users. Upgrades to things like the display, speakers, storage, RAM, wireless networking, etc. are far more noticeable and relevant to that demographic. The SOC has been fast enough for years at this point.

Yeah, any Apple Silicon CPU is fine for most of this market, but just a nitpick - personally I wouldn't recommend anything before Apple Silicon.

The reason we're upgrading my wife's 2017 Broadwell MacBook Air this year is largely specifically for hardware h.265 HEVC acceleration. My kids are in dance, and the some of the organizations holding the competitions have started releasing the video recordings only in HEVC format. This means we can't view the videos on that Broadwell MacBook Air at all. It's basically a slide show.

Sandy Bridge is earlier than Broadwell, and thus also has the same problem. Skylake would probably work, but Skylake has hardware acceleration only up to 8-bit HEVC, and Apple never released Skylake MBAs anyway. For 10-bit HEVC, you need Kaby Lake or later, meaning a 2018 MacBook Air or later. However, both the 2018 and 2019 MBAs are butterfly, so those are out too, meaning the only viable options are 2020 or later.

I looked at getting a cheap used 2020 Intel MacBook Air after Apple Silicon came out, but everyone here advised me against it. While the speed of the 2020 Intel models is usable, the power usage is not well-managed. Battery life is mediocre, and fan noise can be significant. In contrast, speed of Apple Silicon is much, much faster, and the AS MacBook Airs are fanless.

So IMO realistically, the recommended MacBook Airs for even just more mainstream users are Apple Silicon only. Even if we ignore the slower Intel speeds, everything before Apple Silicon can be a problem even for some light users, because of the butterfly keyboard, fan noise, or lack of hardware HEVC support.

 

[chars1ub0w]

The MacBook Air processor/gpu from 10 years ago is more than capable for most MacBook Air users. For basic stuff that the MBA is aimed at, a core2 or sundry bridge core i5 from 10 years ago with sufficient RAM is enough.

I dunno. I had to toss a beloved 12" MacBook as it was unusably slow.

Beautiful little machine for travel, wish they made it in an Apple Silicon version, but since they're not going to, the 13" MBAir is the closest we'll get to that ultimate portability (unless Apple relents and permit macOS on iPad). Then the only issue really for work is RAM. If they permit 32GB, 48GB or 64GB, the MBAir with Thunderbolt 5, that's the ultimate travel machine again. Then one can also stick a maxed out 256GB RAM M4 Ultra Studio into the checked luggage for when compute power is required on the road. A Thunderbolt 5 cable to connect the two for fast transfers. Data on bus-powered external Thunderbolt 5 SSDs. HDMI cable to the hotel room 4K resolution big screen for additional screen space. My dream. Doable within $10K I think.

 

[picpicmac]

The new stacking tech could be huge. There’s a real possibility the M5 series could be the biggest leap since the M1.

I'm sort of doubting that.

Remember, the base M chip is meant to be produced many more times than the higher end SoCs, as it will find its way not only into MacBooks but iMacs, Minis, iPads, probably some Vision thingy, possibly a Home Controller, etc.

The M4 is already more than capable for all of those use cases.

I can see that for Max/Ultra product sectors that Apple will go all out to produce a big leap.

Yet, I still think core count is pretty much now played out.

What is needed for high-end use cases is more memory. LLMs and generative AI can take hundreds of gigabytes to terabytes of volatile memory.

 

[green_diyos]

M5 is likely be released after WWDC 2025 in June.

 

[throAU]

I wonder if the M5 fixes the SLAP and FLOP vulnerabilities. If not, I'll continue to wait.

There will always be hardware vulnerabilities at this point, modern processors are just way too complicated now to try and get the performance. Buy what you need when you need it and keep up to date with security patches.

 

[rivendells]

How to make the M5 iPad Pro launch a huge success:

1. Discontinue the iPad OS. Seriously Apple, no one needs it, no matter how hard you try and want it.

2. Make a clean 2025 Apple Silicon macOS Snow Leopard, even call it macOS Winter Leopard.

3. Make the iPad Pro the first device to run it with the slogan "back to the old but golden times".

We get a good useful working device without bloatware, and Apple gets even more money.

It's a win win for everyone. How about that Apple? Or will you continue pushing iPad OS?

 

[Chuckeee]

So this means the move to 2 nm won’t happen until the M6. So I guess that means I’ll wait till at least the M7.

 

[chars1ub0w]

So this means the move to 2 nm won’t happen until the M6. So I guess that means I’ll wait till at least the M7.

Like with cars, it's almost always better use of one's dollars to wait. If you need more RAM, that's time to upgrade. If you need more cores, upgrade. In other words, whenever your requirements outgrow the computer. Even the M1 generation is pretty fast. SSD, no. External SSD is pretty fast.

If work is paying for it, that's a different matter. Upgrade whenever you can.

 

[eldho]

So this means the move to 2 nm won’t happen until the M6. So I guess that means I’ll wait till at least the M7.

M8 feels about right for me to start considering it. I imagine that my M1 will still be fully adequate by then so I will probably just consider, but who knows, the lure could be enough.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

That Macbook M4 max sitting in ordered… Looking kind of… hmm, cancel? Or let it go through? A new Macbook pro M5 comes out when?

Nothing hmm about an M4 Max MBP with adequate RAM. The M4 MBPs came out in November 2024, so M5 MBPs will be about a year later. If you have use for it now you should buy it now.