M5 gaming

[maflynn]

we were talking about the iPad Pro

I was actually responding to a member (look above) who was talking about a Mac, and that's when I mentioned how Apple prefers quieter computers - not sure how you missed that, but its right there, especially given that this thread is in the Mac and PC games forums

 

[Queen6]

No question, and the lack of thermal headroom on the M4 Pro Mini, was one of the major reasons why I returned it in lieu of a M4 Max Studio - the other reason was the poor gaming performance of the m4 Pro.

While some folks have an issue of my running crossover and complaining about the M4 performing poorly, the M4 Max performs great and running crossover is really the only way to play AAA games on the mac. So seeing the M5's GPU performance increase as much as it is, bodes well for people wanting to game with Crossover.

This is why I came to the conclusion that a Max would be currently minimum (M4). To game or run other Windows focused apps you have to factor in the additional headroom. For me the systems need to be portable which ramps up the pricing significantly.

While mostly a retro gamer I still like some newer titles. I think it's not unreasonable to expect 60 FPS or more across the board, that or live with the compromises. Is certainly encouraging to see Apple's progress with M5, if not impressive given the power budget.

Competition is always good, others too have seen the light AMD's Ryzen 9 9955HX3D offers desktop performance with a power envelope that can live in a notebook chassis with very significant performance. Close to 40K out the box on Cinebench R23 is not to be sniffed at with more to come...

Q-6

 

[Plutonius]

You will have difficulties gaming on any passively cooled notebook. Buying a Mac to game is questionable, buying an Air pointless. Design is a factor whether you like it or not, if the cooling solution is incapable (as was the case on many Intel based Mac's) active or passive the only recourse is for the system to throttle... Therefore physical design is a major factor.

Cyberpunk 2077 Raytracing Ultra @ 2560x1600
View attachment 2571965
Right tool for the right job and all, or maybe design isn't a factor...

You need Max spec for modern AAA a 16" MBP or a Studio. M5 when it comes will be better, equally not going to deliver massive gaming performance. I looked; it is what it is.

As for M1 being garbage you might want to revisit some of the Intel MBP's. M1 was a revelation on launch, and they remain very capable for most common tasks today. It's not like they got slower with age. I game on mine with ease, equally my expectations are balanced playing older titles under modern source port engines.

Those that opt to try Macs Fan Control will likely benefit, as their MPB will remain cooler and less likely to throttle down.

Q-6

It depends what you expect from it and I don't consider it pointless..

When I'm not at home and want to game, I enjoy gaming on my m3 MacBook Air.

 

[keksikuningas]

I was actually responding to a member (look above) who was talking about a Mac, and that's when I mentioned how Apple prefers quieter computers - not sure how you missed that, but its right there, especially given that this thread is in the Mac and PC games forums

Where do you see Mac being mentioned? I was talking about 120 FPS Genshin on iPad Pro and the user replied to me lamenting the thermal performance of iPad Pro that is preventing it from maintaining the FPS number. and then you jumped out, talking about fan noise

 

[maflynn]

ok

That still doesn't change the fact that apple prefers a quiet mac

 

[maflynn]

It’s official – the M5 MacBook Pro is class-leading in one key area, and that bodes well for the M5 Pro and M5 Max

As the article states, the M5 will really shine when the Pro and Max come out. I'm unsure if apple will roll out the studio next year - some rumors point to yes, others point to no

 

[FrostLK8]

Not a solution, more of a workaround. Take manual control of the fans, stock fan curve is very conservative. Fans will barely move until 85C-90C. By this point while playing a game heatsoak is well under way. Mac's have a complex monitoring system with multiple flags to reduce SOC performance.

Key is to prevent the overheat in the first place, increasing baseline fan speed goes a long way. You can try and see, costs nothing.

Q-6

Oh, I'm talking about the iPad though - so no fans in this instance. It seems like the sustained performance differences between M4 and M5 while both are throttled are absolutely minimal, to put it lightly, from what other people have found after throttling them in games.

 

[diamond.g]

Oh, I'm talking about the iPad though - so no fans in this instance. It seems like the sustained performance differences between M4 and M5 while both are throttled are absolutely minimal, to put it lightly, from what other people have found after throttling them in games.

It should mimic the performance degradation we see in the MacBook Air during long gaming sessions.

 

[yellowhelicopter]

Some days you gotta play a top-5-graphically-intensive-game on the smol iGPU you have in front of you.

Well, but I already play top graphically intensive games on the smol iGPU Mac Mini M4 in front of me. Like Cyberpunk 2077, Red Dead Redemption 2, The Callisto Protocol, Silent Hill 2, Alan Wake 2 etc.

 

[Queen6]

It depends what you expect from it and I don't consider it pointless..

When I'm not at home and want to game, I enjoy gaming on my m3 MacBook Air.

Is a generalisation as the Air being passively cooled will throttle down when subjected to heavier loads such as 3D games. I know you can play as I do on my base model M1 MBP which being actively cooled can sustain performance, equally expectations are in line with the hardware's limits.

Q-6

 

[M4pro]

Well, but I already play top graphically intensive games on the smol iGPU Mac Mini M4 in front of me. Like Cyberpunk 2077, Red Dead Redemption 2, The Callisto Protocol, Silent Hill 2, Alan Wake 2 etc.

Yep. Gamers play games.

 

[MayaUser]

You will have difficulties gaming on any passively cooled notebook. Buying a Mac to game is questionable, buying an Air pointless. Design is a factor whether you like it or not, if the cooling solution is incapable (as was the case on many Intel based Mac's) active or passive the only recourse is for the system to throttle... Therefore physical design is a major factor.

Cyberpunk 2077 Raytracing Ultra @ 2560x1600
View attachment 2571965
Right tool for the right job and all, or maybe design isn't a factor...

You need Max spec for modern AAA a 16" MBP or a Studio. M5 when it comes will be better, equally not going to deliver massive gaming performance. I looked; it is what it is.

As for M1 being garbage you might want to revisit some of the Intel MBP's. M1 was a revelation on launch, and they remain very capable for most common tasks today. It's not like they got slower with age. I game on mine with ease, equally my expectations are balanced playing older titles under modern source port engines.

Those that opt to try Macs Fan Control will likely benefit, as their MPB will remain cooler and less likely to throttle down.

Q-6

Exactly my point written in a shorter post

 

[MayaUser]

ok

That still doesn't change the fact that apple prefers a quiet mac

Is not quiet under load..in maya projects and probably aaa games the fans are going full blown
And windows laptops are running , as you probably already know over 90c as the macs
Apple is offering a quiet mac at idle or medium load yes

 

[maflynn]

Is not quiet under load..in maya projects and probably aaa games the fans are going full blown

That wasn't my experience playing games on a M4 pro Mini, with temps hitting 90c. Did my fans increase, yes, were they full blown, absolutely not. I had to use Macs Fan Control to get the temps down under 90c.

 

[MayaUser]

Yep. Gamers play games.

Yes, for me even a person who plays hours of solitaire or chess daily, is a gamer
Some think only those who plays aaa heavily graphics games are gamers

That wasn't my experience playing games on a M4 pro Mini, with temps hitting 90c. Did my fans increase, yes, were they full blown, absolutely not. I had to use Macs Fan Control to get the temps down under 90c.

mac mini m4 pro? Strange , i think mac mini also has one fan. My laptops has 2 fans also a battery that also heat up the device and ramp up the fans at max
When you are doing something heavy and reach over 102c then the fans are going to the max

 

[yellowhelicopter]

mac mini m4 pro? Strange , i think mac mini also has one fan.

It has. The thing is that Apple thinks it's nice to let it work at 90C+. I don't think so, so I've been using iStat Menus to keep it nice and cool in games. Now SoC is at maximum 85C, about like my PS4's APU. Of course there is fan noice ocassionaly but at least I don't worry about overheat/throttling/possible overheat glitches.

PS: I have base MM M4, not Pro. So even it can get very hot in games if you don't use some utility.

 

[diamond.g]

Yes, for me even a person who plays hours of solitaire or chess daily, is a gamer
Some think only those who plays aaa heavily graphics games are gamers

The person that plays solitaire/chess doesn't care about upscaling or frame interpolation. They don't care about GPTK, or that Metal is now feature competitive with DX/Vulkan. They are not going to gain anything by all the advancements in the GPU hardware since M1.

 

[maflynn]

mac mini m4 pro? Strange , i think mac mini also has one fan

Yes,
This is why:

The thing is that Apple thinks it's nice to let it work at 90C+

Which is why I mentioned about apple's fan curve is such that they value quieter running then cooler running.

The studio has a more robust cooling solution, and thus it has more thermal head room. My mac easily sits at 35c for light work, where as the Mini was in the 50 range if memory serves me. Playing games, I'm seeing something in the neighborhood of 70. 50c . I'll edit this post, once I finish playing a session of Fallout 76

Edit, only it the 50c range - FO76 isn't the most graphically demanding games

 

[Queen6]

It has. The thing is that Apple thinks it's nice to let it work at 90C+. I don't think so, so I've been using iStat Menus to keep it nice and cool in games. Now SoC is at maximum 85C, about like my PS4's APU. Of course there is fan noice ocassionaly but at least I don't worry about overheat/throttling/possible overheat glitches.

PS: I have base MM M4, not Pro. So even it can get very hot in games if you don't use some utility.

90C or even more isn't the problem. The problem with gaming on a Mac is Apple puts silence above everything else, so the chassis heat-soaks as there's not enough air flow. As temperature builds the system ultimately throttles as multiple sensors trigger over-temp for their specific areas.

Systems can run for days if not weeks on end at maximum capacity, equally they need adequate cooling something Apple has notoriously disregarded. Think the pinnacle of such idiocy was the Intel i9 equipped MBP. The notebook carried a hefty premium, however left much of the CPU's performance on the table due the cooling solution being barely capable of cooling the lesser Intel hex core i7.

Thankfully Apple has moved on with their own silicon I also think Apple is now more aware, if you were to purchase a top tier 16" MBP for professional purpose, it throttling down due to over-temp out the box is simply a bad look.

Portables will always have compromises; however, the gaps are closing in some areas and good to see Apple being part of this.

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

It has. The thing is that Apple thinks it's nice to let it work at 90C+. I don't think so, so I've been using iStat Menus to keep it nice and cool in games. Now SoC is at maximum 85C, about like my PS4's APU. Of course there is fan noice ocassionaly but at least I don't worry about overheat/throttling/possible overheat glitches.

PS: I have base MM M4, not Pro. So even it can get very hot in games if you don't use some utility.

No doubts. The heaviest game I play on my base model 13" M1 MBP is Doom 3 with updated source port game engine & graphics. Without the use of Macs Fan Control the MBP slowly becomes a space heater and ultimately throttles. Setting the app to trigger fan speed from the performance cores temp the MBP remains cool and quiet.

The notebook's cooling solution is clearly more than capable; Apple's algorithm is far too limited to a single aspect, resulting in excessive temperature across the system under sustained heavy loads.

TLDR: It's far easier to keep a system cool than cooldown an already overheated system.

Q-6

 

[M4pro]

Lies of P
3024x1890 - MetalFX: Highest Performance setting

M5 MBP: 35-40fps

From Tommy Doan (a content creator)

 

[M4pro]

Black Myth Wukong (Crossover)
1512x982 - Low preset

M5 MBP: 30-35fps (w/o frame gen)

From Tommy Doan (a content creator)

 

[M4pro]

From Axis-Intelligence (an AI consulting firm. They basically say they data-scraped and summarized M5 gaming benchmarks from public web sites, socials, and YouTube. Hopefully most of these are not hallucinations).

Research Methodology Note: This analysis incorporates data from …independent benchmark testing from reputable publications, …and hands-on testing of production M5 hardware. Performance claims are validated against multiple sources and real-world application testing rather than relying solely on manufacturer marketing materials.

Native Mac Gaming Performance​

AAA Titles with Native Metal Support:

Resident Evil Village:

• 1440p High settings: 82 fps average (M5) vs. 51 fps (M4)
• 4K Medium settings: 48 fps average (playable)

Baldur’s Gate 3:

• 1440p Ultra settings: 68 fps average (M5) vs. 43 fps (M4)
• 4K High settings: 42 fps average
• Complex battle scenes: Minimum 38 fps (no stuttering)

No Man’s Sky:

• 1440p High settings: 76 fps average (M5) vs. 48 fps (M4)
• 4K Medium settings: 52 fps average
• Procedural generation: Consistent frame pacing

Death Stranding Director’s Cut:

• 1440p High settings: 89 fps average
• 4K Medium settings: 58 fps average
• DLSS-equivalent upscaling: 4K Performance mode at 72 fps

Game Porting Toolkit 2.0 Performance​

Apple’s Game Porting Toolkit 2.0, shipping with macOS Tahoe, enables running Windows DirectX 12 games on M5 Macs with minimal performance penalty.

Emulated DirectX 12 Performance:

• Cyberpunk 2077: 45 fps average at 1440p Medium (playable)
• Elden Ring: 52 fps average at 1440p High
• Hogwarts Legacy: 48 fps average at 1440p Medium
• Starfield: 38 fps average at 1440p Low-Medium

 

[diamond.g]

Capcom enabled RT in RE:Village for macOS?

 

[M4pro]

Capcom enabled RT in RE:Village for macOS?

Nah. So I’ve removed that from Axis list of AI-compiled results.