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Mac and iOS Writing App 'Ulysses' Transitions to Subscription Model
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You're not a writer, I take it. When you spend hours a day in one app, you want the best one for the job. That's why.
Could you technically write in Notes or Pages? Sure. You could compose your whole novel in the body of an email if you wanted. That doesn't make it a good idea.
Something like Ulysses offers a host of organizational features you wouldn't even think of needing until you start writing something long or complicated.
And no, I'm not defending the subscription thing here. I think it's a garbage move on their part.
I'm not a writer either. Though I do use Ulysses. It was and still is great software. I'm incredibly sad they've gone down this route. I won't sugarcoat my opinion. They need money to stay afloat and aren't willing to do something like offering an upgrade path for 1-2 years.
This should be a wake up for Scrivener developers. This is your time to regain the lead again. As I said, I'm not a writer, but both these software provide a fantastic way to gather and write your thoughts down in one central location. Plus, a lot of other features.
This should be a wake up for Scrivener developers. This is your time to regain the lead again. As I said, I'm not a writer, but both these software provide a fantastic way to gather and write your thoughts down in one central location. Plus, a lot of other features.
One thing that’s wrong is that once you stop paying, you usually lose access to your work stored in a proprietary format.
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Btw, what a coincidence! I recently stopped using Ulysses and started using ...a pen.
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My only Software as a Service experiences are with Evernote, 1Password for Families and Ulysses; with Evernote you get fewer features but can continue adding / editing new content and export all of it, and with the other two you retain read access to your content and have export tools available when your subscription lapses. That's still just three examples so I can't claim to know how things "usually" go when you stop paying a subscription, but I can say that in my experience loss of access to my content has not been an issue.
That is, of course, an important thing to keep in mind - you do want a way out should things go pear shaped somewhere down the line.
Outrages, right? I mean how could those people in the old days use paper and pen to craft masterpieces that they did ...
Wait til you're old enough to get your drivers license and buy a car... You pay for registration, they give you a plate, card & tags, then they make you keep paying for it every year even though you already paid for the car, the plates, the tags.
Welcome to life. Grow up.
I hate subscriptions for these smaller apps, but if you make a living using an app, these prices we're talking about are cheap. I use Adobe Creative Cloud to make a living and I hate paying $50 per month—but I cover the $600 per year in a few hours of work. It's a cost of doing business.
You're right, if this was an essential app for all of us I imagine this would be a different story. I guess an app moving to subscription only means that the people you describe will want to keep using the app. For more casual users this is quite unattractive and a bad value proposition.
This isn't even moving to a system where by you get extra features for being a subscriber, at least 1password had bolt ons like the cloud and family accounts (now all gone to one system sadly). Does 1password need 80 odd employees for a password app? I'd like to see the balance sheets that demonstrate this is the only viable model to maintain applications of this scope.
At least this guy demonstrated why it wasn't working for him, and now offers a nice optional alternative:
https://marco.org/2016/09/09/overcast-ads
There is no option here, its sub or get out. They can claim its the only way if they want, but its not and paying customers from their previous models (especially ones that got in recently on multiple platforms) are not all going to be singing their praises after this shift. For some this app is a vital part of their workflow, for others its a nice app to have for those odd long form writing projects. The latter will now have to move on.
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1password7 for Windows will offer a standalone license again and maybe this means they'll keep the other versions around too for non sub purchase, if that's the case then it's a very good move and recognition of the needs of their users.
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There's a difference though. You have to buy registration, yes, but you get the value of continuing to drive.
It's all about value for most of the people here I think.
If you use Ulysses night and day and you make a living writing, then you probably don't mind. If you causally used it a few times a month, you probably resent this model.
I hate that I only got 7 months out of my $60 purchase for both mac and iOS. Yes, my apps will work for now, but I'm not going to continue to invest time and energy into an app I know won't last.
I don't see value because I personally love Scrivener. I wasn't 100% happy with Ulysses, but it was a refined and modern app with seamless iOS integration, but Scrivener works here too. I'm surly not going to pay monthly for an app that I like, but don't love.
I probably would pay a subscription for Scrivener though.
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Make a living, or just love an app.
If you're a huge Ulysses fan, I'm sure you don't mind that much. If you were just a content user, you're probably annoyed
"Sheets" is the The Soulmen's parlance for what L&L calls "Scrivenings" in Scrivener, which support card view and list view. You can also merge them into a single document view, like Ulysses' "glue" feature. The list view has additional columns for the word count of each item, the status ("First Draft", "Done", "To Do"), and an optional label (tag).
Ulysses has a better UI, and I prefer its foundation in plain text rather than Scrivener's RTF, but i dislike the modal fields Ulysses throws up when trying to write in Markdown (I can't simply type my MD link without the interface calling up an overlay to enter a URL), which I find extremely distracting. It's a small "feature" to complain about (that can't be disabled), but it's the main reason I've stuck with Scrivener—besides their commitment to the paid upgrade model over subscription pricing.
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I find L&L's slow roadmap frustrating myself. I particularly want to see Scapple for iOS. But all things considered, I respect their fiscal conservatism. Having worked at a software company with about a dozen employees, I've concluded that most small software startups that switch to a subscription model probably expanded too fast, hiring one or two developers for each platform, and two or three full time support agents. This seems fine, and even necessary, when you're growing—and who doesn't think growth will last forever? As soon as your growth flattens out, you're saddled with making payroll each month, and relying on sales spikes from major updates every two or three years is a huge risk. Adobe and Microsoft have industry standard, lynchpin titles on every platform, but niche "writing studio" apps like Ulysses probably lack the critical mass of users to sustain their subscriptions more than a few months.
L&L wasted two or three years hiring a full time iOS developer who never shipped. The founder had to learn iOS development himself and start from scratch, which he probably should've done in the first place, since he didn't have to learn the macOS version's codebase. At least he didn't overextend himself with additional frivolous hires, and he learned from his mistake. I'm willing to wait for new releases to trickle out slowly if that's the price of sustainability.
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Not defending the switch to subscriptions, but Ulysses uses plain text, Markdown, or TextBundle formats, none of which are proprietary.
Scrivener’s response about Ulysses:
https://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog/?p=1032#comments
To get a bit Sean Connery on you, I’ll never say “never”, purely because I don’t know what the future will bring. For instance, if I say that I’ll never go subscription-only and then Apple changes the App Store model so that it is subscription-only, then it will be out of my hands and I’ll have promised something I had no control over to stay competitive. Likewise, if the entire industry moves to a subscription model and we are left an outlier, it might be something we have to do one day. Or maybe one day it will be the only way for us to survive, who knows? I can say that Scrivener 3 will be a one-time paid update, though, and that we have no plans to move to a subscription model. I’m not a fan of subscription models myself. If we used that model, I think I would feel as though I had to add big features or changes regularly just to justify the subscription fee, whereas a lot of my work is often on stability or refining what’s there. We’re fortunate in that our current model works well for us and has so far been very sustainable. Right now, were we to change to a subscription model, I can’t see how we wouldn’t be a lot worse off. But of course, all businesses are different, and the Ulysses guys have to do what is best for them – I wish them all the best with it, because they’re nice guys who make good software and keep us on our toes.
https://www.literatureandlatte.com/blog/?p=1032#comments
Yeah, I hear you brother. Scrivener just doesn't work for me, that way. Each to their own, I guess. But the structure of Ulysses just speaks to me.
The thing is, to writers, and I write content for a living, and blog, it is that "glorification" that matters most. Ability to publish drafts to Medium and WordPress is a glorification that is great. Markdown support is excellent. Word statistics is an important feature and reminders towards word goals with an ability to customise the goals in a myriad of ways to suit your current requirement is a glorification that is needed when you are dealing with words.
A text editor vs a note-taking app are different beasts and requirements.
If Evernote or Apple Notes never supports the above, the apps will still retain their note-taking character and goodness.
Bear is a great in-between where it functions as simply and unobtrusively as a note-taking app and slaps on great glorifications that make it a more handy and useful "text editor". It then takes on a different role when you try to use it for other things and can export in myriad of formats if needed, write in different formats and languages, get useful metadata about your writing, etc.
Ulysses and Scrivener are apps that are geared at long-form writing. The kind of writing that has layers and a complex structure. Ulysses is a smart prosumer app in that regard, in way of supporting Medium and WordPress publishing direct from the app. It even lets you export ePub format. So, yes, it is a very potent tool in the hands of those people who need those set of features. Scrivener at this moment is totally geared for the professionals.
Scrivener 3 might bring support for publishing, and when it does that, it would be interesting to see how the battle between subscription vs one-time pans out when there is enough feature-parity between Ulysses and Scrivener for Scrivener to become usable by the prosumer instead of only the special niche of professionals.
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No typewriter. Typewriter does not even have the Ulysses's feature-set.
Scrivener is not only for professionals. It can be used very widely and anyone. Support for publishing is a minor nuance.
I agree.
I used Scrivener for academic writing, personal journaling, story writing, etc.
It's very flexible and I like that I can have separate project files. I didn't love Ulysses' "one library" approache. I don't want my personal journal to be mixed with academic research.
A few days ago, Ulysses was my favorite and most-used app. Today, I'm migrating back to Scrivener. Sad.
Agreed.
I completely understand why developers are making the switch in hopes of becoming more financially viable, and I understand why some customers would decide that the payment model doesn’t suit their needs. What I dont understand is the vitriolic reactions that we see every time a developer makes the switch.
So, you deleted a fully functioning app that you paid for to replace it with a subscription based app? I’m not clear what message you’re trying to send exactly.
I started using Scrivener shortly after it first came out and struggled with it for years. Its structure and interface are not a good fit for the way I work and think. Once I started using an iPad as a primary writing tool (several years ago) I ditched Scrivener permenently.
I am happy for those who love Scrivener but it is not for me.
I adopted Ulysses and love its interface and flexibility and its seamless iOS integration. It is both gorgeous and a joy to use. I have happily signed up for a $30 per year subscription.
I am happy for those who love Scrivener but it is not for me.
I adopted Ulysses and love its interface and flexibility and its seamless iOS integration. It is both gorgeous and a joy to use. I have happily signed up for a $30 per year subscription.
I'm sorry, but the excuses and whining about this topic (not just this thread, but any thread about this topic) is just childish and absurd. I've been using computers since before the GUI was mainstream... I'm used to paying (steep prices) for software. Somewhere along the way we got used to discounted apps. And then heavily discounted apps. Then free apps. Now we're expected to pay for apps every month, forever.
I absolutely HATE paying for software subscriptions. It's the world we live in, though.
But the idea that you're going to pay next to nothing for a quality app, pay nothing for upgrades, and still expect bug fixes, updates, upgrades, tech support... that's just insane, and I'm quite certain that NOBODY actually believes these arguments they make. If they do, I'm sure that believe only applies to other people, because I know they won't work for free.
If you're a casual user, find another app. Nobody is forcing you to use it. I certainly wouldn't pay a subscription price for something I only casually use.
But this isn't the fault of the developer. They are a company. They have employees to pay. People make the arguments I'm seeing in this thread and it makes me laugh. It's no different than you actually saying with a straight face that you believe you should be able to go into a restaurant and pay for breakfast once, but be able to go back to the restaurant and have breakfast provided for free simply because you ordered the same food and sat in the same seat.
And in this case, you get the value of continuing to use the software. And you get the value of continuing to receive bug fixes. And you get the value of receiving new features. That's the most ridiculous argument I've seen in quite a while.
If this is the case, then you should find a new app—your Mac ships with two free word processors already—and there are tons more. You certainly don't NEED this particular app.
I absolutely HATE paying for software subscriptions. It's the world we live in, though.
But the idea that you're going to pay next to nothing for a quality app, pay nothing for upgrades, and still expect bug fixes, updates, upgrades, tech support... that's just insane, and I'm quite certain that NOBODY actually believes these arguments they make. If they do, I'm sure that believe only applies to other people, because I know they won't work for free.
If you're a casual user, find another app. Nobody is forcing you to use it. I certainly wouldn't pay a subscription price for something I only casually use.
But this isn't the fault of the developer. They are a company. They have employees to pay. People make the arguments I'm seeing in this thread and it makes me laugh. It's no different than you actually saying with a straight face that you believe you should be able to go into a restaurant and pay for breakfast once, but be able to go back to the restaurant and have breakfast provided for free simply because you ordered the same food and sat in the same seat.
Are you a developer? An owner of a similar tech company? Please give us a breakdown of all your experience that leads to these assumptions.
Yes, that is correct. Just like when you buy a car. You pay, or you don't get to keep driving the car.
And I'm sure the devs will say "sorry, but don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on the way out." See above for reason.
I'm going to guess that moving on won't be very difficult for them.
AgileBits has always offered a standalone license... for Mac as well as Windows—and they still do. This probably won't change for another year or two.
And in this case, you get the value of continuing to use the software. And you get the value of continuing to receive bug fixes. And you get the value of receiving new features. That's the most ridiculous argument I've seen in quite a while.
If this is the case, then you should find a new app—your Mac ships with two free word processors already—and there are tons more. You certainly don't NEED this particular app.
Eh, not really. As I said in an early post it's all about value and each user has to determine that.
I don't get $40 a year of value from Ulysses. I like Scrivener more and will play the upgrade price for Ulysses. Heavy bloggers or writers love Ulysses and will find value. Just because it has value for you doesn't mean it does for me.
Evaluating personal cost-benefit is a ridiculous argument?