Mac App Store Very Promising But With Restrictions

[kingtj]

A couple thoughts, if I may?

1. The concerns that an App Store for OS X could cause a "race to the bottom" of software prices is unfounded, IMO. Haven't we seen that ALREADY with the advent of all of these "Mac bundles"? Essentially, they've taken a bunch of software packages prices at upwards of $20-50 each, and thrown them together for one low price (MacHeist, etc.) because they weren't selling well/quickly enough on their own. I'd say if anything, centralizing and giving new exposure to a bunch of submitted apps will mean maximizing revenue! Developers will quickly find out where to price a given program for optimal sales numbers/profits, instead of letting an overpriced app sit out there for years with excuses that "Well, it probably just needs more time to catch on. People aren't really aware it exists yet, or what it can do for them."

2. It would only be logical for Apple to place restrictions like no custom "haxies" allowed in apps sold on their integrated store. It wouldn't make any sense for apps purchased right from an Apple provided tool, built into the OS, to cause incompatibilities with other apps or destabilize parts of the system because they use unsupported system calls or work-arounds. That's why this won't be an appropriate sales channel for everyone. Most of the big, multi-player game titles would probably stick with sales via Steam too -- because the integrated chat system for matching people up to play the games and the "trophies" integrated with it are value-adds the App Store wouldn't offer. (Not to mention, at least with the Valve titles, it provides you with a license for both a Windows and a Mac version of the Steam games you buy.)

 

[Jack Dangers]

I think people need to relax about all this Apple locking down nonsense.
If apple ever decides to go that route, it will be suicide for them. The big software players (MS) will just go elsewhere than pay apple 30% to distribute their product. For example, if I didn't have MS office on my mac, I would not be able to work efficiently with my colleagues and clients who use windows. I've tried iWork and Open Office, but it's never fully compatible with Excel and Word. The first thing people ask when they switch is "can I run word"?


And the app store IMO will just become the apples official "versiontracker.com". Basically now you can get all the shareware and freeware for mac via the MacAppstore. But now small developers can collect money easily and not worry about paypall or getting a merchant account up to accept credit cards.
And for those who say that 30% is too much are pretty much clueless about running a business. 30% is nothing for the level of distribution apple is providing. Believe you me consumers will be more inclined to purchase your product via the app store than some website with just a link to a paypall account.

 

[pdjudd]

I agree - THe idea that somehow Apple is going to lock down the OS so that the App Store is the only vector for installation is somewhat nonsensical - there is always going to be a third party software installer system (you know for the OS) and there are lots of programs that simply cannot work with the self contained application system that the App Store relies upon. Not to mention the tons of companies that already have their own distribution channels (like the Apple endorsed Steam).

To do so would essentially remove the Mac from a large portion of mainstream software - its blowing off your foot with a cannon. And even worse - trying to rein in the horses out of a barn that has never had any doors. I seriously doubt that Apple would even want this.

Sure, it is possible that Apple may do this. Anything is possible. It is also entirely possible that Apple could just kill OSX in it's entirety and just sell Windows. Just because it is possible doesn't mean anything without significant proof to the contrary. Right off the bat Apple said that the App store was not going to be the only way to get apps. If the Mac App Store doesn't work (people don't embrace it) - Apple will change things. I don't see this horrible future of Mac App Store happening - they know that ship sailed 30 years ago. Apple knows that you cannot fit every possible program into one model of distribution - it just doesn't work that way.

The Mac App Store will be valuable to people who want to sell their apps with as little hassle as possible and not want to mess with setting up monolithic systems to do that - especially when it isn't necessary. Established developers are going to use it as an option when they can, but they are not going to replace one with another.

 

[MACWhite]

for all this "centeralized app" nonsense i'm reading..here is my rebuttal:

As long as Mozilla continues to make Firefox for the Mac, i'm pretty sure that they will eventually release Firefox for the Mac App Store. technically the apps you use today still open the files types you want to (Pages opening .pages files, VLC opening mkv files, etc.)...the only thing that's changed is the fact that all the apps you have (or want to look for) are in one place.

still it's too early to make assessments about the Mac App Stroe before its already even been released.

 

[Flitzy]

If this becomes the future of Mac OS, it will be time to pack it up and leave. For example, with this, developers could never offer a new beta or test version of a program, there could be no more open-source software, no software can be developed using cross-platform libraries and frameworks, no independent hardware devices, no root access, programs cannot be released, but instead must be submitted for blessing, etc...

On the plus side, your computer will be farting a lot more...and you might even be able to use the monitor as a flashlight.

How do you come to this conclusion? Nothing would change.

If people want to offer beta or test versions, they'll put it up for download in their site. Once a final version is released, they'll link to it on the App Store (just like they'd like to it in a custom shopping cart, if they were hosting it themselves).

If they wanted to use other libraries, then they'd just use another shopping cart solution.

So much doom, gloom, and overreacting in this thread. :/

 

[sullen]

full screen doodle jump

 

[vterm]

i couldn't agree more...

This is a very bad development indeed. This smells of the thin edge of the wedge of a closed ecosystem. I don't like this one bit. Hopefully Apple will not try to exercise more control down the road of non-appstore apps. Personally if I were a developer I'd be very very worried by these developments.

I couldn't agree with you more on that!
It's like you're in my head....
I mentioned this about a year ago to fellow Mac Users and all my friends
called me paranoid at that time!
I was always a Mac User (before it was cool), and a strong supporter of Apple and it's philosophy.
My first Mac OS was v6.0!
But taking an Open Source OS like Unix and turning it into iOS is unacceptable.
I want to be able to run EVERYTHING on my Mac.
And i want to be able to do EVERYTHING on my Mac.
Now, if a Mac App Store, suits some developers, because it's easier for them to promote or sell their software, i couldn't care less.
I am not a developer, i am an end user.
If a developer does not have the resources or the time to build and promote his software, then he should pursuit another carrier.
Imagine an OS that would let you install only Apple Approved Apps!!
(well, we're not there but Steve works methodically....)
Imagine an OS that you wouldn't be able to install Flash, just because Steve doesn't like it and has a grudge with Adobe!!
Seriously??
I don't like, where this is headed...
I don't believe that i am going to say this, but the day this'll happen, i'll switch to windows!

 

[elgrecomac]

A closed Ecosystem

Without jail breaking and Cydia, the iphone is a closed ecosystem. And now Apple is heading that way with Mac applications.

Perhaps its time to update the 1984 commercial.

 

[pdjudd]

Without jail breaking and Cydia, the iphone is a closed ecosystem. And now Apple is heading that way with Mac applications.

Perhaps its time to update the 1984 commercial.

No, they aren't. Read this carefully - this is an option.

Is it possible that this could happen. Sure. It's also possible that Jobs could shut down Apple tomorrow, Bill Gates can reveal himself to be a ralean, Steve Ballmer might be elected Pope. All of these things are possible. We also have as much proof of the likelihood of these things happening as the Mac App store being the only installation route.

In the real world, we describe outcomes as practical or plausible. Weather or not it is possible is kinda silly. Lots of things are possible, but weather someing is possible is kinda meaningless if the outcome is something that no serious person would rationally engage in.

To do this would mean the abandonment of Mac OS in total. Nobody is seriously nominating Ballmer to be Pope. Sure, such a thing is possible, but nobody is thinking such a thing is going to happen. Possible doesn't mean plausible.

 

[(marc)]

Ugh. All the devs will want to move into the App Store. This means more copy-paste-programmers' apps (like the iOS App Store) and less awesome apps. Sooo many apps (e.g. Things) use private APIs, just use FScript and see for yourself.

Whatever. Once I get Lion, I'll move the "App Store.app" into the trash as quickly as possible...

 

[firewood]

This is the 1st step.

2nd step: All software can be only be installed via this store.

Then your computer is 100% controlled by Apple. You can not install ANYTHING that they dont want you to. Your basically leasing a computer.

The end of all software piracy.

Then Microsoft copies it and we are doomed.

Not doomed. Just finally the year of Linux on the Desktop for all power users. (Assuming Intel or AMD still makes desktop CPUs). And developers, of course, will retain their ability to install any code under development, even on Macs and iPhones.)

So not a problem for Mac power users, as using the Terminal will allow them to easily brush up on their Unix command line skills.

And non-power-users will have greatly reduce opportunity to play their part in large scale organized crime (malware botnets, etc.).

 

[dgree03]

If apple removes all optical drives from pro laptops and Desktops, then can we say that there plan is to only provide apps through the mac app store?

Is it fair to say that the macbook air is the first(or next) step to them realizing and closed mac eco system?

How do you come to this conclusion? Nothing would change.

If people want to offer beta or test versions, they'll put it up for download in their site. Once a final version is released, they'll link to it on the App Store (just like they'd like to it in a custom shopping cart, if they were hosting it themselves).

If they wanted to use other libraries, then they'd just use another shopping cart solution.

So much doom, gloom, and overreacting in this thread. :/

Do developers current do that now? Offer beta programs OUTSIDE of the app store?

 

[Mal]

Do developers current do that now? Offer beta programs OUTSIDE of the app store?

What app store? I think you're a bit confused.

And yes, many developers offer free beta programs, and they are usually separated from the store where you would buy the full version when it's released, because they don't want just anyone getting a beta. They want the type of people that will find and report problems, with at least fairly intelligent comments so that they can find and fix the problems. I don't see that changing much.

jW

 

[firewood]

Software developers want to be paid a fair wage, this can't happen if the product price is too low.

A "fair wage" is a unfair illusion if you do it by locking other equally hard-working and skilled developers out of the major distribution channels. Not too different from anti-trust collusion to keep some commodity's price up.

 

[SMGreenfield]

Regarding DRM --

So Apple will provide an alternative DRM for those of us that use license management / copy protection?

No "license keys"? Doesn't Final Cut Pro use license keys? Is Apple not going to include its own Pro Apps in the App Store?

No license screen on launch, but what about "registration"? Or will Apple provide registration information for every purchase made on the App Store?

Regarding "Is This A Good Idea" --

Some of us have been around long enough to see the "channel" dry up. No more CompUSA. No more Circuit City. Extremely limited titles in Best Buy. (and remember "Egghead Software"?).

College Bookstores have drastically reduced shelf space, too.

Fry's is very, very difficult to deal with -- and get paid by.

Except for Amazon.com, there are no reliable large retailers of Mac OS software -- except the Apple Stores. But the amount of available space is quite limited there. We've had some titles bounced out for lack of space.

So I think Steve Jobs is seeing the future -- for a platform entirely controlled by Apple, it makes sense for Apple to provide a de facto software store.

It also reduces the costs of physically producing product (or will you be able to buy a physical version via the app store, like you can on the on-line Apple Store?)

Anyone who is complaining about 30% hasn't dealt with a major distributor.

Stephen

 

[dgree03]

What app store? I think you're a bit confused.

And yes, many developers offer free beta programs, and they are usually separated from the store where you would buy the full version when it's released, because they don't want just anyone getting a beta. They want the type of people that will find and report problems, with at least fairly intelligent comments so that they can find and fix the problems. I don't see that changing much.

jW

I am talking about the iOS app store? If similarities can be drawn as to how the Mac App store would be ran, I would want to know are iOS devs able to do beta programs outside the iOS app store?

 

[dejo]

I would want to know are iOS devs able to do beta programs outside the iOS app store?

Yes, they are.

 

[mdelvecchio]

I'm crossing my fingers you're right. I don't want to have to jailbreak my Macs, and quite simply if they do force people to do that to install arbitrary software, I'm off back to Windows. But until Steve actually says "We're locking this down", I'm going with the optimism.

that youre actually dedicating any brain cycles thinking (and posting) about this is whats really incredible.

 

[mdelvecchio]

Several people have said that the App Store is wonderful for developers too because it will make it easier for people to find your apps, install them, you won't have to deal with bandwidth. However, I think 30% is simply too much.

guess youve never worked with a publisher or label before.

30% for: hosting space, bandwidth, promotion, order fulfillment, credit card processing, gift card processing, distribution, reporting, backend systems to support all those, etc... its not bad. if it bothered you so much you are free to increase the price of your app, of course.

or do all that yourself. your choice. and thats what its about, isnt it? more choices for devs.

 

[mdelvecchio]

This is a concerning move on Apple's part. With a flip of a switch they can close the system and no software gets on a mac unless Apple gets paid through their distribution channel. If I were Adobe, or Autodesk, or any other major 3rd party mac software manufacturer I would be really nervous about the prospect of Apple taking 30% of my revenue. If I were Apple, I would be quite enticed about taking 30% revenue from major 3rd party developers.

Hmm. I think closing off the system will be my OSX exit cue.

god i cant believe im even replying to these mad delusions. ok last one.

PLATFORMS NEED DEVELOPERS. the platform (OSX) is not going to tell people they must buck the past 30 years of personal GUI computing (which apple introduced, mind you) and hand over 30%.

software titans like Adobe sure as sht arent going to be using MAS -- they already have their own distribution channels all over the world and dont need the services MAS offers. its not even a consideration.

this is for the unknowns, out there. not the giants.

get it? if not ask your economics prof to explain.

 

[jmor]

I really hope/and don't think that apple will make this a closed system eventually, I really don't want this to be the ONLY way to get apps. But besides that fear/paranoia this sounds great.

 

[dgree03]

god i cant believe im even replying to these mad delusions. ok last one.

PLATFORMS NEED DEVELOPERS. the platform (OSX) is not going to tell people they must buck the past 30 years of personal GUI computing (which apple introduced, mind you) and hand over 30%.

software titans like Adobe sure as sht arent going to be using MAS -- they already have their own distribution channels all over the world and dont need the services MAS offers. its not even a consideration.

this is for the unknowns, out there. not the giants.

get it? if not ask your economics prof to explain.

Why doesnt iOS developer have other channels to get software onto the iphone/touches/ipads?

Maybe I am being dumb, but I am failing to see the difference as to way it is SO IMPROBALE that apple would lock down OSX to only DL from the Mac App Store?

Are the naysayers in this thread saying that it is not at all possible for the Mac store to be the only means of installing software?

Is the Macbook air not a perfect example of the push towards that?

 

[eye]

If you can't download softwAre through other channels, this would be terrible. I don't know if they'd do that or not so don't yell at me. Just saying it would suck.

 

[usw]

The computer I'm currently using will probably be the last one I use from Apple...
I know they don't care for my little voice, fair enough : I don't really care for them either !

the only good things about apple are :

1 neutral/simple aesthetics (but I can already see the day when this apple logo will seem extremely common, if not vulgar)
2 unix architecture (there are a few others)
3 interface innovations (that they deprive of any interest by limiting them to entertainment gadgets only)
4 promises (that never come...)

Now, if they think they can sell the world for 99 cents, in small parts, garbages included, then they'll have to count on a few departures, including mine.

 

[BornAgainMac]

Will they have a fart app for the Mac App store?