Mac App Store Very Promising But With Restrictions

[MACWhite]

OK...i like this Idea!!! for one it keeps me from searching macupdate and other websites to find the .DMG files needed to install apps, but i see one potential flaw...

Like the iPod touch and iPhone, you can easily just "transfer" your apps, videos, etc to iTunes, but let's say you wanted to do a hard drive refresh and re install Mac OS X....will you have to rebuy the apps you bought from the Mac App Store?

 

[Bernard SG]

Like the iPod touch and iPhone, you can easily just "transfer" your apps, videos, etc to iTunes, but let's say you wanted to do a hard drive refresh and re install Mac OS X....will you have to rebuy the apps you bought from the Mac App Store?

Time Machine is your friend .

BTW, I think those who are terrified about Mac OS X heading to an iOS-like locked model need to chill out. In my opinion it will NEVER happen, unless Steve Jobs is gone and replaced by an ex-Microsoft executive. The way applications are installed by a simple file copy is at the core of the Mac OS architecture. Changing that would basically account for changing the system from the ground up. Not mentioning how it would piss-off the Mac user-base in a way that would spell disaster for Apple.

 

[cwrm72]

Go back to windows

This is a very bad development indeed. This smells of the thin edge of the wedge of a closed ecosystem. I don't like this one bit. Hopefully Apple will not try to exercise more control down the road of non-appstore apps. Personally if I were a developer I'd be very very worried by these developments.

because apple exercise more control over the software and apps, apple is more reliable that PC, in a PC Microsoft does not care if the programs don't work, as a consumer i ma 300% in favor of apple maintaining full control of what goes to their hardware. I say, people that thinks like philosopherdog may stay with windows based computers, crashing all the time and getting viruses every 10 seconds. I find a great advantage out of relying on Apple expertise of this matter.

 

[QuarterSwede]

Like the iPod touch and iPhone, you can easily just "transfer" your apps, videos, etc to iTunes, but let's say you wanted to do a hard drive refresh and re install Mac OS X....will you have to rebuy the apps you bought from the Mac App Store?

1) Time Machine or your backup app of choice
2) You don't have to re-buy apps from the iDevice app store. You just tap Buy, it sees you've already bought the app and asks if you want to re-download it. I'd imagine the Mac App Store will do the same thing if you don't have a backup already.

 

[angelneo]

If you think you can sell the over 70% as many of your apps from your own web site as from the App store, then go ahead with the marketing model that's more appropriate for you.

For some small developers, Apple will be doing over 90+% of the work just by sticking the app's icon on iTunes, because a lot of customers would never hear about or buy an app from an unknown developer with an unknown web site.

If that's you, that means that Apple's less than 30 seconds of work plunking it in their store is far more valuable than your weeks of work in terms of actually creating revenue. Deal with it.

That's the problem, once Appstore is the de-facto installation in Mac, you will have no choice but to go to Apple for distribution, and 30% for a publishing deal with no commitment to marketing is just too much. Other than the Approval process, the whole thing is fully automated. The only fee I can think of is administrative and storage charges (if any). Furthermore, you will be at the mercy of their approval team.

What would Apple do if lets say another company decided to create their own store, and give something like 88 - 95% of the profits to the developers? Lets say it becomes more successful. Would Steve want to block them out of OSX?

He don't have to. All Macs will have the Appstore preinstalled. Remember the IE (Microsoft) antitrust fiasco?

 

[Reef555]

This is the 1st step.

2nd step: All software can be only be installed via this store.

Then your computer is 100% controlled by Apple. You can not install ANYTHING that they dont want you to. Your basically leasing a computer.

The end of all software piracy.

Then Microsoft copies it and we are doomed.

 

[coolfactor]

This is a very bad development indeed. This smells of the thin edge of the wedge of a closed ecosystem. I don't like this one bit. Hopefully Apple will not try to exercise more control down the road of non-appstore apps. Personally if I were a developer I'd be very very worried by these developments.

I think this is a welcome development. Application distribution needs a good kick in the butt. Developers are not restricted to using Apple's store, but it'll be one proven method to get sales. Big difference from iOS.

 

[HLdan]

....but let's say you wanted to do a hard drive refresh and re install Mac OS X....will you have to rebuy the apps you bought from the Mac App Store?

I don't mean to be rude but some of you guys just don't check Apple online do you?

 

[blastair]

Individual Apple apps?

Did anyone else notice that screen shots of the Mac App Store showed that you could buy individual elements of iWork or iLife for $15? That rocks! Just pick and choose one app without having to pay for all of them; I never use Numbers or Keynote!

 

[Master Exploder]

All the people who are hitting the panic button and proclaiming the end of open OSX development are severely underestimating Apple's intelligence.

Is it possible that Apple could make the App Store the sole outlet for OSX software? Sure, but it's also possible that Steve Jobs wakes up tomorrow and decides that Mac OS is a waste of time and announces that all Macintosh computers will ship with Windows 7. Or he decides Apple will immediately begin working on the iCar to compete with Google's self-driving vehicles. However, all of these things are also highly unlikely, and highly stupid.

Look, if Jobs had his way, Mac OS probably would be a locked down, walled garden like iOS; however, the Mac, and its user-base, has depended on an open development environment for nearly 30 years. Apple could get away with locking down iOS due it being a completely new platform, with absolutely no expectations. However, to suddenly close down the OSX now would be pulling the rug out from millions of users who rely on openly distributed applications would do irreparable damage to the platform.

While Mom and Pop probably wouldn't even bat an eyelash at a closed platform as long they could still play Farmville, valuable sectors that Apple has depended on for years, like the creative and education industries, require the specialized software that the Mac App Store wouldn't carry. If Apple suddenly tells them "Too bad, so sad," they're taking their business elsewhere, and with them goes a heavy chunk of Mac revenue.

Apple can be described in many different ways : colossally stupid isn't one of them. Until they decide to kill it completely, OSX development will remain open.

 

[pdjudd]

It's a big deterrent to trying to distribute your App both on the Apple app-store and any other channel because those who have purchased outside the app-store won't have access to your updates.

What do you mean? You can still update apps outside of the Mac App store - sure you will have to maintain multiple builds depending on distribution, (such is the nature of application distribution on repository systems) but distributing apps on your own in no way prohibits you from distributing updates for those products the same way. I see nothing that prohibits 3rd party (non app store) software from having their own auto-update features

Arguably though this won’t be much of a problem anyway - if you are successful distributing software online already chances are you aren’t moving toward the app store anyway. The app store is going to be real popular with software that doesn’t have established distribution channels and probably are not in the position to set up the infrastructure to do so.

 

[GregA]

We've heard that Mac App Store Apps are restricted from installing kernel extensions (kexts) that are frequently used to provide system level functions in these utilities. Apps, as well, must be self contained and avoid use of undocumented APIs.

So.. apps that I could let any friend install on my machine without worrying about what sneaks into my system.

Do you use any OS X system utility? Chances are they break Apple's rules, they are unbelievably restrictive.

Yes system level tools won't happen through the app store.

They said the app store apps woukd be licenced to all of your personal machines.

So anywhere I login, it'll let me install the same apps
I suspect they'll be in my personal application folder too, not in the main application folder.

If you read the Mac App Store rules, applications like Office 2011, Parallels 5, VMware Fusion 3 would all be rejected. I'm curious to see how this works.

This is a problem. Especially Office, or CS4. BIG apps will need to be installed through regular means.

Those that are laughing with the tin hat people have to keep in mind that this is Apple we're talking about. They already have 2 platforms with a closed App Store and no other way to install applications. I'm not saying it will happen, but knowing Apple they could certainly try.

They will start to push this. They might even make lighter versions of Lion (closer to iOS) that only run App Store apps - which might run faster on a MacBookAir.

Mostly it'll be so convenient to use Mac App Store apps for anybody on multiple Macs, that they won't leave it.

Like the iPod touch and iPhone, you can easily just "transfer" your apps, videos, etc to iTunes, but let's say you wanted to do a hard drive refresh and re install Mac OS X....will you have to rebuy the apps you bought from the Mac App Store?

I'm convinced this is all about their new data centre.

All your data, music, applications etc will be synced online. Log into ANY Mac and get all your data, music, applications etc. Until now, you couldn't just copy your app from one Mac to another (though many work that way.. not the system utilities or the biggest apps though...).

Every app on the Mac App Store will be portable.

I look forward to swearing at my Mac when it's crashing badly - then just reinstalling Lion, logging in with my AppleID, and letting it reinstall all my apps and documents and music on a clean OSX. I just hope it'll take my music etc from my iPhone if it's there rather than downloading everything from MobileMe.

 

[ipodtouch-user]

App store

If it uses iTunes(apple) id this can be very good. Many don't want to use credit cards or don't have one. Now they can go buy an iTunes card and use that to buy software. Aslo they can feel safer using a credit card since apple is trustworthy.

Let's just hope it doesn't stink as much as the current iTunes app store.

 

[heisetax]

Why would you then use the Mac app store

No PathFinder, FruitMenu, Window X, or iStat Menus allowed...pretty much all the OS X utilities I use.

If you & many other people out there will find out that need & want programs that will not be allowed on the Mac app store why would you even think about using the Mac app store? I have no plans of ever using the Mac app store. The only way that I would use it would be if there absolutely was no other way to purchase a program that I thought I needed or wanted. There usually is enough choices that we will be able to find most programs elsewhere.

The app store is one reason that I purchased a smart phone from Sprint. No Apple restrictions for me. That is also a drawback for the iPad.

 

[Bolteh]

While I realize the appstore is an addition and not a change, I still can't help but feel worried.

This entire event didn't feel like "Back to the Mac" at all.. I expected innovative features that really boost the performance of OSX, I expected clever features that enhance the great workflow OSX has, I expected something more than Apple catering to the Facebook-crowd that doesn't want to be productive.

The sneak peak of Lion felt as if they desperately tried to find a reason for people to buy the new Macbook Air, seeing as it's now a slightly more expensive iPad that can run OSX (a iOS-ified OSX, because nobody would get an Air to run OSX at its full capabilities, so funtime stuff is a requirement).


Yes, it's great for the tech-savvy people that get a Mac because they supposedly don't have any viruses or because Macs are trendy and hip. Yes, it's great for indie developers to get exposure without selling their soul to publishers. But I seriously hope they have a lot more in store for Lion than just having a bastard child of the incestuous union between OSX and iOS. I'm hoping for proper useful features for anyone who actually uses Macs for work and pretty much any task other than sitting on Facebook and playing apps all day.

Now don't get me wrong, I'll most likely keep using Macs because OSX is still my OS of choice, the only OS that lets me work without grunting and sighing every 5 clicks. The only requirement is that OSX remains OSX, and doesn't turn into iOSX.

 

[heisetax]

Go elsewhere then

The question is, for how long? Once they start to centralize apps around the new store, they might gradually make it more and more inconvenient to install apps other ways, and one day they just stop supporting it. I mean, it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

If Apple does that then we can just go elsewhere. By then Google will have an OS that willl allow us to still stay away from MS.

 

[Cougarcat]

If you & many other people out there will find out that need & want programs that will not be allowed on the Mac app store why would you even think about using the Mac app store?

App store apps are easier to keep updated and install.

 

[heisetax]

No changes for the future

Aside from the new MBA's.... is the Mac App Store the only revelation from today? That and a new Expose?

Hopefully Apple is keeping lots and lots of things under wraps to prevent the competition from getting a head start. I was massively underwhelmed with the presentation today.

That's the way the Ma OS demos have been going for a while now. The featureless OS 10.6 Snow Leopard is our prime example. What good does it do your us. I haven't felt or seen anything new or better.

 

[Bolteh]

I don't hold high hopes for the Chrome OS. Yet another attempt by Google to reinvent something that already works.

And I still don't know why people think Chrome is so great. I'd actually use IE and Opera over Chrome.

 

[Bernard SG]

What do you mean? You can still update apps outside of the Mac App store - sure you will have to maintain multiple builds depending on distribution, (such is the nature of application distribution on repository systems) but distributing apps on your own in no way prohibits you from distributing updates for those products the same way. I see nothing that prohibits 3rd party (non app store) software from having their own auto-update features

Arguably though this won’t be much of a problem anyway - if you are successful distributing software online already chances are you aren’t moving toward the app store anyway. The app store is going to be real popular with software that doesn’t have established distribution channels and probably are not in the position to set up the infrastructure to do so.

OK, I didn't think about the option of making/maintaining different builds (whatsoever, I find that to be a convoluted way of doing development business, but to each his own).

And I agree 1000% with your last paragraph. If an app is already established and commercially successful, it makes little sense moving it to the Apple app-store, unless you're confident that such a move would hugely boost your audience and then, you may as well be done with self-ran distribution.

On the other hand, for something totally new, it's a no-brainer, IMO.

 

[batchtaster]

So... then they should sell it the way they always have. This is just another option, not a walled garden.

Presumably the "Mac OS X Software..." item in the Apple menu will be redirected to open the Mac App Store.

 

[heisetax]

Some haven't allowed it

They said the app store apps woukd be licenced to all of your personal machines.

Does that also mean that if you bought GarageBand on there today which is only listed as GarageBand not '11' you would get a free upgrade to GarageBand 13 or whatever?

That would not work for apps like Adobe CS5, MS Office for Mac 2011 & others that control the number of users that can use the program. Apple tries to without restricting one from not following their rules. Remember the Family Pacs?

 

[heisetax]

More power for the ordinary Mac User!

Since I am "power user" and have never heard of any of these apps, I'd say that you are actually praising the default install of Mac OS for its completeness.

Sounds like you are just a self proclaimed "power user!" I have even heard of some of these & have found them to be very useful. But I am just an ordinary business Mac User. My Mac with the various different programs that the many third party developers give the non-power User's more power than the so called "Power User."

 

[adztaylor]

I like this idea. It gives the average Joe Mac user a chance to find a app that they know is 100% safe. It would be handy too as sometimes I have trouble finding a Mac app online that I need. So long as this ONLY stays as an option to find apps then I'm fully onboard.

 

[knightlie]

The question is, for how long? Once they start to centralize apps around the new store, they might gradually make it more and more inconvenient to install apps other ways, and one day they just stop supporting it. I mean, it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

This kind of knee-jerk, nonsense reaction is incredibly frustrating. People will be scared of Apple dictating their breakfast cereal before long.

You really think Apple are going to "make it more and more inconvenient to install apps other ways?" Seriously??