You didn't notice the numbers that were included in the post.
Mac - 1299 (new), 700 (sold), 54%.
PC - 1249 (new), 400 (asking price but not sold), 32% at the most; less if asking price has to be reduced to sell.
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Mac Haters
- Thread starter ThirtyThr33
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You didn't notice the numbers that were included in the post.
Mac - 1299 (new), 700 (sold), 54%.
PC - 1249 (new), 400 (asking price but not sold), 32% at the most; less if asking price has to be reduced to sell.
How are people coming up with these numbers?
Anyone, you're a fool if you pay retail for a PC. Apple users generally have no say in this matter. If you know what you're doing, PC laptops are sold for at least 30-40, even 50% off retail. You guys have your pricing all messed up.
Hence, PC's do have the advantage of "covering" up cost because of the sheer discrepancy of the pricing from person to person. Ever try haggling with an Apple sales rep? Doesn't work, does it?
Anywho, real world examples:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-XPS-15-L50...tops_Nov05&hash=item35b3556b34#ht_2195wt_1139
Would've sold for ~$850 new (could be even less, specs aren't impressive at all; you can generally max new Dell XPSes for about $950 shipped, $850 as a refurb), maybe $950 post-tax/shipping. Line was already refreshed, so it's oudated and the major "hit" as been taken. $730, bidder already. Drop? About $200, all things considered, and bidding's not even over yet. Post tax, that's about a 25% drop. Pre-tax values, only a 15% hit.
You guys bring in $2000 PC notebooks all you want, but it makes very little sense to do so. $2000 for a PC notebook is far on the upper 99th percentile of PC pricing, hence you're paying a huge premium for newest technology. So these PC notebooks tank both the "1 year drop" and the "newest tech drop", a double whammy. It makes far more sense to compare it to a "modestly" equipped, mid-range PC.
This would've retailed for over $2000, WITHOUT tax. WITH student discount/whatever deal they get.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...888295&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
didn't sell
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...828395&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
did sell, $1350, reserve not met. pre-tax hit, 30%. post-tax, over 35%.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...816919&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
did sell, anti glare too, $1400. pre-tax hit, over 30%. post-tax, pushing 40%.
Drop offs? Pretty similar I'd say. If you buy retail, then Macs will hold their value. If you come across a modest 20-25% coupon, it'll be the same 65%ish value. If you come across a great sales rep or an amazing stackable offer, then the PC will hold their "value" longer, looking at 70%+ after a year.
If anyone wants to keep track, currently some deals to consider:
HP DV6t - i5-2410m, 6770m, 6gb, 1080p screen - $770
HP DV6tqe - i7-2630qm, 6770m, 6gb, 1080p screen - $930
Dell XPS 15 L502x - i7-2630qm, 540m GT, 8gb, 1080p RGB screen - $850
MBP 15" - i7-2630qm, 6490m, 4gb, hi-res ag - $1850 with student discount + worthless $100 gift card = $1750
MBP 15" - i7-2720qm, 6750m, 4gb, base screen - $2000 with student discount - $100 gc = $1900
Prices pre-tax
Check ebay in a year to see what they're worth.
Anyone, you're a fool if you pay retail for a PC. Apple users generally have no say in this matter. If you know what you're doing, PC laptops are sold for at least 30-40, even 50% off retail. You guys have your pricing all messed up.
Hence, PC's do have the advantage of "covering" up cost because of the sheer discrepancy of the pricing from person to person. Ever try haggling with an Apple sales rep? Doesn't work, does it?
Anywho, real world examples:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-XPS-15-L50...tops_Nov05&hash=item35b3556b34#ht_2195wt_1139
Would've sold for ~$850 new (could be even less, specs aren't impressive at all; you can generally max new Dell XPSes for about $950 shipped, $850 as a refurb), maybe $950 post-tax/shipping. Line was already refreshed, so it's oudated and the major "hit" as been taken. $730, bidder already. Drop? About $200, all things considered, and bidding's not even over yet. Post tax, that's about a 25% drop. Pre-tax values, only a 15% hit.
You guys bring in $2000 PC notebooks all you want, but it makes very little sense to do so. $2000 for a PC notebook is far on the upper 99th percentile of PC pricing, hence you're paying a huge premium for newest technology. So these PC notebooks tank both the "1 year drop" and the "newest tech drop", a double whammy. It makes far more sense to compare it to a "modestly" equipped, mid-range PC.
This would've retailed for over $2000, WITHOUT tax. WITH student discount/whatever deal they get.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...888295&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
didn't sell
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...828395&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
did sell, $1350, reserve not met. pre-tax hit, 30%. post-tax, over 35%.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...816919&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
did sell, anti glare too, $1400. pre-tax hit, over 30%. post-tax, pushing 40%.
Drop offs? Pretty similar I'd say. If you buy retail, then Macs will hold their value. If you come across a modest 20-25% coupon, it'll be the same 65%ish value. If you come across a great sales rep or an amazing stackable offer, then the PC will hold their "value" longer, looking at 70%+ after a year.
If anyone wants to keep track, currently some deals to consider:
HP DV6t - i5-2410m, 6770m, 6gb, 1080p screen - $770
HP DV6tqe - i7-2630qm, 6770m, 6gb, 1080p screen - $930
Dell XPS 15 L502x - i7-2630qm, 540m GT, 8gb, 1080p RGB screen - $850
MBP 15" - i7-2630qm, 6490m, 4gb, hi-res ag - $1850 with student discount + worthless $100 gift card = $1750
MBP 15" - i7-2720qm, 6750m, 4gb, base screen - $2000 with student discount - $100 gc = $1900
Prices pre-tax
Check ebay in a year to see what they're worth.
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Just ask any of them how much ram/cpu hogging garbage they have running in the background JUST to get windows to run the way its advertised without being plagued by viruses, spyware, malware, spam, etc.
Then ask how much time they WASTE on nannying the Windows OS for maintenance?
The entire Windows experience is a joke and one consistent headache.
Overpriced? Hell yeah macs are overpriced. But for the price you pay you don't end up dealing with system maintenance bull***t.
This thread just keeps getting worse. The bottom line on price is this: If you can afford to buy whatever kind of computer you want, then price is irrelevant. If you can't afford a Mac, then you have to use whatever kind of cheap and lame plastic Windows generic Wal-Mart PC you can get. If you are more concerned with having a great user experience then buy a Mac. There is no use in comparing the prices of PC's versus Macs. That is like comparing the price of a Kia to the price of a Lexus. Yes, the freakin' Lexus costs more. Deal with it. If you can't afford it, just shut up and drive your ugly little Kia that is going to crap out on you sooner, have terrible resale value, and not be nearly as enjoyable to drive. What's that you say? You won't get the fun of working on the Lexus because it doesn't break down all the time like a Kia? Does that make you sad that you won't get to fix the nice car? Then shut up and drive your crappy little Kia and quit trying to tell me that it is better than my Lexus because it cost you less. A cheap piece of crap is still a cheap piece of crap. The fact that it costs less than something else does not mean it is better. 
This thread just keeps getting worse. The bottom line on price is this: If you can afford to buy whatever kind of computer you want, then price is irrelevant. If you can't afford a Mac, then you have to use whatever kind of cheap and lame plastic Windows generic Wal-Mart PC you can get. If you are more concerned with having a great user experience then buy a Mac. There is no use in comparing the prices of PC's versus Macs. That is like comparing the price of a Kia to the price of a Lexus. Yes, the freakin' Lexus costs more. Deal with it. If you can't afford it, just shut up and drive your ugly little Kia that is going to crap out on you sooner, have terrible resale value, and not be nearly as enjoyable to drive. What's that you say? You won't get the fun of working on the Lexus because it doesn't break down all the time like a Kia? Does that make you sad that you won't get to fix the nice car? Then shut up and drive your crappy little Kia and quit trying to tell me that it is better than my Lexus because it cost you less. A cheap piece of crap is still a cheap piece of crap. The fact that it costs less than something else does not mean it is better.
My parents Infiniti G35 breaks down more often than my 1999 Honda Accord.
Your analogy sucks.
You're wrong and ignorant. About both OSs.
This thread just keeps getting worse. The bottom line on price is this: If you can afford to buy whatever kind of computer you want, then price is irrelevant. If you can't afford a Mac, then you have to use whatever kind of cheap and lame plastic Windows generic Wal-Mart PC you can get. If you are more concerned with having a great user experience then buy a Mac. There is no use in comparing the prices of PC's versus Macs. That is like comparing the price of a Kia to the price of a Lexus. Yes, the freakin' Lexus costs more. Deal with it. If you can't afford it, just shut up and drive your ugly little Kia that is going to crap out on you sooner, have terrible resale value, and not be nearly as enjoyable to drive. What's that you say? You won't get the fun of working on the Lexus because it doesn't break down all the time like a Kia? Does that make you sad that you won't get to fix the nice car? Then shut up and drive your crappy little Kia and quit trying to tell me that it is better than my Lexus because it cost you less. A cheap piece of crap is still a cheap piece of crap. The fact that it costs less than something else does not mean it is better.
You're wrong and ignorant. About a lot more than computer OSs.
That's because Infiniti is made by Nissan. I didn't use an Infiniti or a Honda in my analogy. The same analogy could be used in a Honda versus a Kia with the Honda being the Mac. I drive an Acura which is a Honda with more bells and whistles. It never breaks down on me. I once owned a Hyundai (basically the same thing as a Kia...cheap Korean car). It had all kinds of problems at 80,000 miles so I sold it. The resale value was crap. I paid more for the Acura MDX, but have put 150,000 miles on it with no problems at all. If I wanted to sell it, the resale value is excellent. The same holds true for my Toyota 4 Runner with over 150,000 miles. No problems...still going strong...resale value still high. As for the Infiniti...I don't buy or recommend those. My analogy is still correct. You could replace Lexus with Toyota, Acura, or Honda and it would still ring true. Buying a PC is like buying a Kia or a Chevy at best.
That's because Infiniti is made by Nissan. I didn't use an Infiniti or a Honda in my analogy. The same analogy could be used in a Honda versus a Kia with the Honda being the Mac. I drive an Acura which is a Honda with more bells and whistles. It never breaks down on me. I once owned a Hyundai (basically the same thing as a Kia...cheap Korean car). It had all kinds of problems at 80,000 miles so I sold it. The resale value was crap. I paid more for the Acura MDX, but have put 150,000 miles on it with no problems at all. If I wanted to sell it, the resale value is excellent. The same holds true for my Toyota 4 Runner with over 150,000 miles. No problems...still going strong...resale value still high. As for the Infiniti...I don't buy or recommend those. My analogy is still correct. You could replace Lexus with Toyota, Acura, or Honda and it would still ring true. Buying a PC is like buying a Kia or a Chevy at best.
Please stop posting.
Enlighten me, oh great one.
I have neither the time nor patience to write up an elaborate post detailing the many ways you are wrong. You're obviously opinionated, ignorant, and, psychologically speaking, in the face of arguments against Apple products you will only believe in your beliefs stronger.
If you disagree with any of that then you further prove my point.
Read more. And when i say read I don't mean only posts on an Apple forum.
Yeah, I don't know anything at all. I managed to start 2 successful companies without ever reading anything but an Apple forum that I joined last month
I have never used computers at all. My 5 Windows Machines and my 4 Macs (one of which is a server and another runs Windows 7 via VMWare Fusion) are pretty much just there for decoration. My 3 web sites built themselves, and my server configured it's self by utilizing the principals of Darwinism. You should do humanity a favor and do likewise.
Yeah, I don't know anything at all. I managed to start 2 successful companies without ever reading anything but an Apple forum that I joined last month
I have never used computers at all. My 5 Windows Machines and my 4 Macs (one of which is a server and another runs Windows 7 via VMWare Fusion) are pretty much just there for decoration. My 3 web sites built themselves, and my server configured it's self by utilizing the principals of Darwinism. You should do humanity a favor and do likewise.
And yet you post this:
This thread just keeps getting worse. The bottom line on price is this: If you can afford to buy whatever kind of computer you want, then price is irrelevant. If you can't afford a Mac, then you have to use whatever kind of cheap and lame plastic Windows generic Wal-Mart PC you can get. If you are more concerned with having a great user experience then buy a Mac. There is no use in comparing the prices of PC's versus Macs. That is like comparing the price of a Kia to the price of a Lexus. Yes, the freakin' Lexus costs more. Deal with it. If you can't afford it, just shut up and drive your ugly little Kia that is going to crap out on you sooner, have terrible resale value, and not be nearly as enjoyable to drive. What's that you say? You won't get the fun of working on the Lexus because it doesn't break down all the time like a Kia? Does that make you sad that you won't get to fix the nice car? Then shut up and drive your crappy little Kia and quit trying to tell me that it is better than my Lexus because it cost you less. A cheap piece of crap is still a cheap piece of crap. The fact that it costs less than something else does not mean it is better.
Furthermore, posting those achievements in life continues to stronger validate my post. You are missing the point and digging a hole. Both at the same time. Think about what I said; you aren't fully comprehending my previous post and the point I was making.
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Anyone can plainly understand your lame and unfounded assertion that I am so caught up in my opinions about Macs that opposing viewpoints simply reinforce and enlarge said opinions. I do not need to repeatedly review your posts to discern their meaning. They are transparent and sophomoric at best. It is obvious that you fancy yourself an intellectual of sorts. Pity your arguments are not as intellectual as you consider yourself to be. The last resort of a sad argument is an ad hominem attack. My opinions regarding the supremacy of Apple vs. PC is based on years of personal experience using both types of machine. I stand by my analogy that merely citing a lower purchase price for a PC does not mean that it is a better machine. The "Macs are too expensive to be better than pc's" argument is just foolish. Please feel free to continue your pathetic ad hominem/that just proves my point bs. Don't forget to de-frag your hard drive.
Just explain to them why you choose a mac. That should suffice. I was in your shoes in september. Everyone in my computer class would hate. I didn't really have a good argument for them because have the time I was in bootcamp for VB.
Initially I thought I was going to program for iOS. Turns out I hate programming. Regardless, the biggest linux fanboy I know would chirp me. next thing you know he picks up an old iBook and original iPhone. He was instantly hooked and started telling everyone how great macs are. He now also owns an iPad and will get an iMac over the summer.
Long story short use what you like let the haters hate. They only hate because they have never tried a mac, have no money to buy one or work for microsoft. 
Initially I thought I was going to program for iOS. Turns out I hate programming. Regardless, the biggest linux fanboy I know would chirp me. next thing you know he picks up an old iBook and original iPhone. He was instantly hooked and started telling everyone how great macs are. He now also owns an iPad and will get an iMac over the summer.
Long story short use what you like let the haters hate. They only hate because they have never tried a mac, have no money to buy one or work for microsoft.
I wonder how many used PC laptops come with the master boot record preloaded with TDL-4?
Here are some numbers to consider:
HP EliteBook 8560p = $2118
- i7-2630QM (2.00GHz)
- 15.6 LED display (1600 x 900)
- 4GB DDR3 SDRAM
- 320GB 7200 rpm HDD
- AMD Radeon HD 6470 (1GB GDDR3)
- DVD SuperMulti
- 62 Wh Li-ion battery
- 1 year warranty
MacBook Pro = $1999
- i7-2630QM (2.00GHz)
- 15.4 LED display (1680 x 1050)
- 4GB DDR3 SDRAM
- 500GB 7200 rpm HDD
- AMD Radeon HD 6490 (256MB GDDR5)
- DVD SuperMulti
- 77.5 Wh Li-ion battery
- 1 year warranty
Here are some numbers to consider:
HP EliteBook 8560p = $2118
- i7-2630QM (2.00GHz)
- 15.6 LED display (1600 x 900)
- 4GB DDR3 SDRAM
- 320GB 7200 rpm HDD
- AMD Radeon HD 6470 (1GB GDDR3)
- DVD SuperMulti
- 62 Wh Li-ion battery
- 1 year warranty
MacBook Pro = $1999
- i7-2630QM (2.00GHz)
- 15.4 LED display (1680 x 1050)
- 4GB DDR3 SDRAM
- 500GB 7200 rpm HDD
- AMD Radeon HD 6490 (256MB GDDR5)
- DVD SuperMulti
- 77.5 Wh Li-ion battery
- 1 year warranty
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Just explain to them why you choose a mac. That should suffice. I was in your shoes in september. Everyone in my computer class would hate. I didn't really have a good argument for them because have the time I was in bootcamp for VB.
Initially I thought I was going to program for iOS. Turns out I hate programming. Regardless, the biggest linux fanboy I know would chirp me. next thing you know he picks up an old iBook and original iPhone. He was instantly hooked and started telling everyone how great macs are. He now also owns an iPad and will get an iMac over the summer.
Long story short use what you like let the haters hate. They only hate because they have never tried a mac, have no money to buy one or work for microsoft.
Yeah thats kinda how I got started LOL.
What I don't get is why everyone hates on Apple but then buys an iPod, saying "it's just better than zunes and other mp3 players, but Apple computers are a different story" <-- OH really? Cuz Apple's been making computers longer than theyve been making iPods. Oh and telling PC fanboys that Apple (pretty much) was the first computer to use a mouse and graphic display pisses them off. Apple paved the way for Windows but most people just don't know it or refuse to know it.
Because Apple computers cost a lot of money. That AND the fact that they're advertised as being simple to use and easy to understand. What I think Apple should do is devote a corner or so of their store to advanced users, showcasing what Apple laptops can actually do.
if you walk into an Apple store and play with the machines, yes you're definitely going to think it's an overpriced toy. With only about 12 applications in the toolbar, one or two you can readily use (photobooth and safari), it's quite baffling to anyone who's experienced with windows machines as to why anyone would buy that very simple 1.xk computer.
In the end, just buy whatever the hell you want. Who cares if the cool kids like or don't like it. Or even if your friends hate it too. The majority of my friends don't like Macs and never want to use one. I don't really care. Why should I have to justify to THEM why I used MY money to buy what I wanted?
Don't you just hate it when some freaking prejudice judges Macs for being too expensive without even having to use one for at least 2 weeks?
That's exactly why they don't know why Macs are worth it.
That's exactly why they don't know why Macs are worth it.
Just get one. Stroll into work, sit at you desk, get out your new MacBook Pro and fire it up whilst lighting a cigar and putting your feet up on the desk.
You just entered another level of coolness.
cigar is not cool.
Don't you just hate it when people bump year-old threads for no apparent reason?
Fanboys from either side of the aisle are irritating. To ignore good qualities just because you have some strange emotional connection to a logo is foolish.
I use what I like and what ime works better or has better build quality. the other OS likely does well for other people, it jut hasn't for me personally. Plus, customer support and durability mean a lot in my eyes.
I use what I like and what ime works better or has better build quality. the other OS likely does well for other people, it jut hasn't for me personally. Plus, customer support and durability mean a lot in my eyes.
Not many people I know hate on Macs, but there are a few... I actually enjoy getting them worked up about it
Corrected it
Macs = no viruses
No viruses = porn
Porn = Well.....
Well..... = no teen pregnancies and angry conservative Christians
Sooo, macs = no teen pregnancies and angry conservative Christians