I agree, but only because we know the prices of new laptops. I've found that there are a lot of people on Craigslist that will pay $250-350 for a working laptop regardless of specs, as long as it's in decent physical condition.
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Mac Haters
- Thread starter ThirtyThr33
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I agree, but only because we know the prices of new laptops. I've found that there are a lot of people on Craigslist that will pay $250-350 for a working laptop regardless of specs, as long as it's in decent physical condition.
So... you're saying the screen size has a direct negative effect on the performance? Just because the laptop has, instead of a 17 inch screen, a 13 inch screen then it's a problem right?
Your logic is flawed. I understand where you're coming from but you don't know how to make logical, rational arguments. Bashing something because you can't find the rationale for that product is ignorant.
Apple has brainwashed you into thinking they actually care about you. They care about your money. That's it. That's why they have 52 BILLION dollars in CASH (as in, not stocks and whatnot). They love money. Your money, my money, all of our money. If they have to make us think that they care, they'll do it.
Now of course I"m glad they offer all of these services but ultimately what are they doing? Making it easier for us to SPEND MONEY for Apple products.
"Hey Jim, I love Apple. Great customer service, great build quality, the experience is just great".
"That's awesome, I love not having to go to Geek Squad and wait a week to get a diagnosis on an obviously broken laptop. I'll go buy a Mac now."
That's what happens. I'm not saying it's bad because I love having a physical store where I'm treated like a king, but just be AWARE of what's going on; going along isn't all that bad when you fully know the implications and the reasons as to why you're doing it.
All businesses care about the bottom line. If Apple didn't, they would offer free repairs, free software upgrades, and they wouldn't charge an arm and a leg for marginal upgrades NOR require (as previously mentioned here in this topic) 400 bucks to move up 2 inches of screen and to have a dedicated GPU.
They have the money, they could spend more on the machines and make them BETTER for the price. Completely decimate the opposition. But they don't. Because people keep buying Apple products.
Free repairs? They do. It's called the Genius Bar.
Free software upgrades? I don't believe I'm paying a cent for iOS 5 or any of the software updates thus far.
An arm and a leg for marginal upgrades? How about $30 for OS X Lion?
How much do you think Windows 8 will cost you?
Yes, Apple is a business, and businesses exist to make a profit. However, Apple realizes that a great user experience translates to more sales. They care deeply about their customers and their experience.
I watched Steve Jobs' Keynote from 1997 today. All of these developers were calling him out for pulling the plug on elements that had been important to what they had been working on. They blasted the guy in the question and answer time and said he didn't know what he was talking about. Often times Steve knows more about what's better for you than you do. He's a genius, but you are Mactared.
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Free repairs? They do. It's called the Genius Bar.
Free software upgrades? I don't believe I'm paying a cent for iOS 5 or any of the software updates thus far.
An arm and a leg for marginal upgrades? How about $30 for OS X Lion?
How much do you think Windows 8 will cost you?
Yes, Apple is a business, and businesses exist to make a profit. However, Apple realizes that a great user experience translates to more sales. They care deeply about their customers and their experience.
They do because customers = money. Listen, I'm all for Apple, I have a blackbook right now WITH upgraded internals. I'm planning on selling this so I can get the next gen MBA AND Lion when it comes out. I'm just making a point here. Every company does that. If they sell laptops and one has a faulty HDD out of the box, is it my fault? Heck no it isn't. Any company that doesn't fix things like this isn't going to last long. As for "any and all non user damages? They don't. It's called Apple Care. 100+ for that service after the first year. I just read a topic about a guy who's graphic's card is causing screen flickering. Know what they told him? Can't help you.
Here's the actual topic
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1180709/
Arm and a leg for INTERNAL upgrades. RAM, HDD, the fact that you CAN'T install your own harddrive in the new iMacs? That's as greedy as you can get.
I'm not referring to outside sources here, I'm strictly stating what I see and what Apple COULD DO if they actually "cared" about the customer. They do a lot to make it seem like they do, of course to US, that's awesome. To the average consumer, that's awesome.
Apple is a 90/90 company. What 90 percent of the people want, 90 percent of the time. Why do you think Final Cut X is getting so much backlash? They simplified it, made it easier for the average person to use. To maximize sales. That's why they're actually offering refunds for it. People don't like it. Now their own feelings about the product isn't the main topic here, the fact that they took what was a great program and simplified it while cutting backwards compatibility? Removing key features? They want money. It's blatantly obvious.
Again, I like Apple. I used to hate them before I actually matured and tried out a Mac before bashing it like most PC users do. I love them now. Never going back. BUT I am aware of what Apple is doing. They're making money.
If they really cared for "us", they'd make things at least somewhat cheaper; requiring an extra 200 for an extra TB of storage is crazy. Simply ludicrous when you can just get the 2TB and install your own 2TB drive and have 5 total TBs for LESS than the Apple 3 TB.
I could go on.
Looking at things from a common perspective, the majority of average PC users hate on Macs because of a simple issue of how much machine you get for a given price.
The majority of PC haters that are on Macs hate PC's based on outdated information and people repeating stuff on the internet without really knowing what they're saying.
All in all if you like using a Mac, then who cares as long as you're happy. If you're the type who's always concerned about what others think about you because of what you use, then you got some serious issues and need to grow up. I'm PC-biased and a proud owner of my 13in MBP. I enjoy showing what's cool to my PC friends and I equally enjoy showing Mac users how awesome Win7 really is.
If you're a PC user who blindly hates on Mac, remember it's not your money, if you don't like Macs then don't ever buy them, let those who're happy with Macs be. If you're a Mac-cultist and hate on PC's because you think it's cool, just remember that there's folks like me that can make your Mac and OSX look like a fool's choice, so watch what you say around people.
The majority of PC haters that are on Macs hate PC's based on outdated information and people repeating stuff on the internet without really knowing what they're saying.
All in all if you like using a Mac, then who cares as long as you're happy. If you're the type who's always concerned about what others think about you because of what you use, then you got some serious issues and need to grow up. I'm PC-biased and a proud owner of my 13in MBP. I enjoy showing what's cool to my PC friends and I equally enjoy showing Mac users how awesome Win7 really is.
If you're a PC user who blindly hates on Mac, remember it's not your money, if you don't like Macs then don't ever buy them, let those who're happy with Macs be. If you're a Mac-cultist and hate on PC's because you think it's cool, just remember that there's folks like me that can make your Mac and OSX look like a fool's choice, so watch what you say around people.
I could go on.
So pretty much you can't afford what you want to buy so you have become a hater.
So did you just sign up today to troll or what?
Please make my Mac look like a fool's choice.
The fact that you can't afford one, so therefore they are too expensive is not a valid argument.
Reading's not a strong point for you it seems. I'm typing on this on my 13inch MBP like I mentioned earlier, one of the key things I look at with any computer regardless of what platform it's based on is how the keyboard feels, this means I have my preferences when it comes to certain "brands" as I don't enjoy using ALL PC's. I'm used to using a sep mouse on PC's so I find it kind of refreshing to see that the MBP's trackpad works well enough where I really don't miss having a mouse.
I'm not here to blurt out every little thing differentiating OSX and Windows, Macs and PC's so give me something to respond to if you think Macs/OSX are all that. Granted I can come up with a ton of stuff about Windows/PC's as well, but since I appear to have you all bent out of shape over my comment...
Another thing I like about my 13" MBP & OSX is I can surf the net (with Flashblocker) and not have it roast my nu.z
With Windows just having it turned on was enough to get the fans running. Just piss poor power management.
Flash is just a pig on any OS.
With Windows just having it turned on was enough to get the fans running. Just piss poor power management.
Flash is just a pig on any OS.
I was in the PC camp many years ago when I did a lot of gaming on the PC (Games that only ran on Windows for the OCD'ers out there ) , my trip back to the Mac all began with a new dual USB iBook G3 that I bought on eBay.
I loved it's look and feel, not to mention the performance (for it's time). That little 500Mhz G3 was keeping rather decent pace with my self built rig running Windows XP when it first shipped.
Comparing the look and feel of the OS designs was a no-brainer. I never did like the Luna Blue default theme. OS X on the other hand looked wonderful but was slow to refresh window sizes and other UI elements. Knowing that the design of Aqua was new and a work in progress, dealing with 10.1 was tolerable. Despite the slow UI, my iBook smoked my Athlon in mp3 encoding and I fell in love with iTunes.
Fast forward to today, the Mac and PC's have very much in common under the hood and behind the scenes in the operating systems being Snow Leopard and Windows 7.
I don't have the most modern top end computers like I felt I had to have years back to get the most out of a game.
I still have my late '10 MacBook Pro (13" model), and upgraded it to fit my needs with more memory and a larger HDD. If I run into a situation where I need Windows, I bought Parallels which I can run both operating systems without a hitch or a reboot.
The hardware still sells me on Apple. When buying a new laptop, I considered many different models of PC's with Windows 7 but almost all of them creaked when opening or closing the display or just felt of cheap plastics. If you spent in a higher bracket, you still get the same build quality of many models but they diid have some nice hardware that I wished my 13" MacBook Pro should had have
What I did buy however, was a precision built notebook with a sturdy build quality and Snow Leopard ran like a dream without all the shovelware stuffed on all of the PC's.
I did pay a premium for minimal hassle and have no regrets. I pull out my laptop and it fires right up with no fuss. Getting around the small display on the 13" model, I spent big and bought the 27" Apple Cinema Display which while expensive, was a perfect match for the MacBook owner in mind providing not just a display connector, but USB and a MagSafe power connector as well.
It's those small details that make me love my Mac and I will never go back.
) , my trip back to the Mac all began with a new dual USB iBook G3 that I bought on eBay. I loved it's look and feel, not to mention the performance (for it's time). That little 500Mhz G3 was keeping rather decent pace with my self built rig running Windows XP when it first shipped.
Comparing the look and feel of the OS designs was a no-brainer. I never did like the Luna Blue default theme. OS X on the other hand looked wonderful but was slow to refresh window sizes and other UI elements. Knowing that the design of Aqua was new and a work in progress, dealing with 10.1 was tolerable. Despite the slow UI, my iBook smoked my Athlon in mp3 encoding and I fell in love with iTunes.
Fast forward to today, the Mac and PC's have very much in common under the hood and behind the scenes in the operating systems being Snow Leopard and Windows 7.
I don't have the most modern top end computers like I felt I had to have years back to get the most out of a game.
I still have my late '10 MacBook Pro (13" model), and upgraded it to fit my needs with more memory and a larger HDD. If I run into a situation where I need Windows, I bought Parallels which I can run both operating systems without a hitch or a reboot.
The hardware still sells me on Apple. When buying a new laptop, I considered many different models of PC's with Windows 7 but almost all of them creaked when opening or closing the display or just felt of cheap plastics. If you spent in a higher bracket, you still get the same build quality of many models but they diid have some nice hardware that I wished my 13" MacBook Pro should had have
What I did buy however, was a precision built notebook with a sturdy build quality and Snow Leopard ran like a dream without all the shovelware stuffed on all of the PC's.
I did pay a premium for minimal hassle and have no regrets. I pull out my laptop and it fires right up with no fuss. Getting around the small display on the 13" model, I spent big and bought the 27" Apple Cinema Display which while expensive, was a perfect match for the MacBook owner in mind providing not just a display connector, but USB and a MagSafe power connector as well.
It's those small details that make me love my Mac and I will never go back.
Oh my, please tell me you're joking. Or that you aren't that stupid. Seriously.
*looks around at other members here* He is joking right?
... is that seriously your reply to what I just posted?
I was in the PC camp many years ago when I did a lot of gaming on the PC (Games that only ran on Windows for the OCD'ers out there
I loved it's look and feel, not to mention the performance (for it's time). That little 500Mhz G3 was keeping rather decent pace with my self built rig running Windows XP when it first shipped.
Comparing the look and feel of the OS designs was a no-brainer. I never did like the Luna Blue default theme. OS X on the other hand looked wonderful but was slow to refresh window sizes and other UI elements. Knowing that the design of Aqua was new and a work in progress, dealing with 10.1 was tolerable. Despite the slow UI, my iBook smoked my Athlon in mp3 encoding and I fell in love with iTunes.
Fast forward to today, the Mac and PC's have very much in common under the hood and behind the scenes in the operating systems being Snow Leopard and Windows 7.
I don't have the most modern top end computers like I felt I had to have years back to get the most out of a game.
I still have my late '10 MacBook Pro (13" model), and upgraded it to fit my needs with more memory and a larger HDD. If I run into a situation where I need Windows, I bought Parallels which I can run both operating systems without a hitch or a reboot.
The hardware still sells me on Apple. When buying a new laptop, I considered many different models of PC's with Windows 7 but almost all of them creaked when opening or closing the display or just felt of cheap plastics. If you spent in a higher bracket, you still get the same build quality of many models but they diid have some nice hardware that I wished my 13" MacBook Pro should had have
What I did buy however, was a precision built notebook with a sturdy build quality and Snow Leopard ran like a dream without all the shovelware stuffed on all of the PC's.
I did pay a premium for minimal hassle and have no regrets. I pull out my laptop and it fires right up with no fuss. Getting around the small display on the 13" model, I spent big and bought the 27" Apple Cinema Display which while expensive, was a perfect match for the MacBook owner in mind providing not just a display connector, but USB and a MagSafe power connector as well.
It's those small details that make me love my Mac and I will never go back.
I hear you on the variation of build quality of some PC's. Not to knock on Toshiba users but I find them cheaply built, some of the keys in odd places and the chassis creaking when I use them. Sony used to be on top of things until they had to cut a few corners to reach a certain price point on their line of computers.
For PC notebooks I prefer Thinkpads, they test their hinges 30,000 times as shown here. I like the feel of the keys, the unit doesn't creak, the keyboard area is very stiff despite being a plastic chassis.
I too enjoy the MBP line of notebooks, they feel solid and like you said they appear to be precision built, the unibody design is definitely a plus. I have some gripes about it but that's for another thread. I miss having my usual PC-keys like PrtScn, Home, seperate DEL, End and Backspace keys (I can hit them without taking my eyes off the screen on my Thinkpads) however that's just me being picky about things.
Both use outdated arguments.
Why macs suck - elitist ignorant community who are disillusioned by the religion that is Apple; overcharges for everything
Why pcs suck - community full of 10-15 year old pre pube teens who live life by the clock cycle; their notebooks breaks and blue screens and gets viruses every 30 minutes
Both arguments are played out and stupid. Mac haters are moronic. PC haters are moronic. Truthfully, Macs suck. PC's suck. Give me something with PC performance, Mac styling, and PC BUSINESS LINE build quality (A MBP is really nothing to write home about when compared to professional PC lines). Minus the childish PC community, minus the ignorant Mac community.
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I know someone is going to suggest a customized version of Linux.
I'd say you want a nice, high end ThinkPad running OS X. I'd love that. Or PC internals inside a MBP. I'd love that just as much.
Seriously I agree with you though. It doesn't help us that a large majority of people think exactly as you stated. However it also hinders us when we have people Pro-Mac saying things like "it doesn't get viruses, the OS is cleaner, the OS is smoother, the OS is simpler", just to name a few.
"Better" is completely subjective. Everyone should know this. It isn't until people realize this that they find that, unfortunately, a lot of the things they say are highly biased and have no basis.
What do I argue? Long battery life, great build quality, in-house repairs and service. I take not to say what I think is "long, great, convenient", not better.
That in house convenience isn't so convenient for everyone, especially when people don't have an Apple store near them.
I've never been the type where I felt I had to hate Macs because I prefer PC's and am quite surprised that some PC users have this need to feel hate towards Mac owners and vice versa.
I don't agree about how PC's and Mac's suck, I think they're both great in their own ways, l prefer to appreciate each one's unique qualities to their fullest.
To build on that a little bit: the stereotypes are not without merit though. See here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1180087/
Ignorant #1, 2, and 3 all begin to knock on two things that the MBP is supposed to be better than PCs at: build quality and customer service, without any facts to back it. Just the past delusions of what "was".
I know all Thinkpads have to go through a series of vigorous torture tests to ensure their systems can withstand the most extreme environment (liquid spills, drop tests, rigidity, shock tests, etc). I know some of HP's business lines even come with internal roll cages. Dell has similar specifications for their business line.
I remember back in my freshman year of college, I accidentally bumped my roommate's Thinkpad (back when it was still IBM) and knocked it off his desk. He heard the noise and came into the room, looked at me, then at the notebook on the ground. Without saying a word, he went ahead and picked it up, went up to his top bunk, and dropped it to the ground. He repeated this multiple times, as I just stood there, half in horror, half just utterly confused at what was going on. About a minute later, he went back to his desk, turned on his Thinkpad and just laughed.
These Mac "worshippers" don't realize their beloved MBP has good quality, sure, especially compared to your average $500 HP Pavilion or Dell Inspiron at Costco or whatever, but against true high quality notebooks, they stand no chance. They can't hold a candle to the likes of Elitebooks, Precision, Vostro, Thinkpads, Tecras, etc.
And customer service? I love how they bring that up. There are so plenty of topics that show up every day criticizing the "idiocy" of Apple "geniuses". Plus, they fail to realize that once again, business lines have completely different treatment with regards to customer service. They paid for an elite notebook, and they're getting first class customer service. Why? Because they can afford it. The reps they hire don't have to deal with teens, but mature (at the very least, a college student) individuals who either at least know a thing or two about how certain things work, or have the polite nature to go ahead and conduct things in a proper matter. And until one's experienced it, I don't think he's in any position to judge.
Likewise, if you visit a PC forum, you'll see recommendations cementing the idea that specs = everything. They completely look past the simple things that us Mac users have simply come to love and can't live without. Keyboards are great (albeit Thinkpads have awesome keyboards too), and the huge glass trackpad is something that's still only exclusive to Macs. One of the first to implement backlit keyboards properly (NOT alienware-like), and the chiclet-style is quite eye catching. Plus, while performance isn't the greatest, it comes in a nice little <1" package, something no PC can match.
So how can something be "overpriced" if there's no PC equivalent to even consider? How is one to say something like a Bugatti Veyron is... overpriced? What's the alternative? What if I don't want to sacrifice performance and the same 1" chassis?
But again, you see all these posts about people carrying 15 lb "notebooks" to class and "not caring". Well, that's just ignorance. Of course it's a hassle. I don't care if something has 8 cores and 4 nvidia GTX 580s, you're not convincing me that thing's portable. And there's a complete neglect of things like keyboard and trackpad "feel". All the discussions are about the latest and greatest GPUs, about how one has a 5% improvement over the other and is therefore worth an extra $200.
Blah, I'm just ranting now.
None of that was addressed to you. If only you'd click that link. It's blue not a la [color], but . I was agreeing with you. Cheers mate.
Pot, meet kettle.
No you obviously mistook my comment. I meant the screen size of that size needs a good graphics card and GPU in order to fully and efficiently use that big screen space and resolution. Which it didn't. What's the point of a large screen with a small processor? Maybe it's fine for word processing and farmville but it's still a waste if you ask me. The company seemed to be going for form over function.
Picture a hummer with an engine from a smart car. It just doesnt mesh.
The resolution makes the difference, not the size. Many 17" laptops have 900-line screens, which is the same as the 13" Air.
What's kind of what I was pointing at. Just because it's a large screen doesn't mean it needs all of that power behind it. Screen size is pure preference. That's it. It's whatever the user want; most of the time this correlates with higher specs but that isn't always the case.
You're thinking in terms of the way the way they sell us MacBooks; more money gets you a bigger, "better" MB; in reality there's no reason they can't just sell a 17 inch for 1500 with 13 inch specs. They're selling "bigger is better".
I mean I'm just playing devil's advocate here but pretty much any computer with a dual core processor can play 1080p video, everything else under that is what 90 percent of the people buying computers actually do. 17 inch screen? Home laptop for the family.
High end graphics cards and processors aren't always needed.
In relation to the links in one of my previous posts, the TDL-4 botnet has been incorporating UAC bypass exploits to be able to bypass the implementation of DAC when infecting Windows 7.
http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/tdl4-rootkit-now-using-stuxnet-bug-120710