Mac Mini 2018 (re)design: what you would have done differently?

[russell_314]

Got one.
Relax security theater: What is point of asking for password every time I move something in or out of Apps folder?
That's not usually my stuff. The stuff that needs to be kept secure is in docs and pix folders. Apple doesn't ask for pw then. The scheme is set up more to irritate than to secure. Change an AppleScript App? Sorry, you'll have to reauthorize thru security prefs. It a dumb set up, that annoys, but doesn't really protect the things that most usually need protecting.
I don't wan to be "impressed", I want to be protected. Maybe T2 will do that, but it looks to me like it blocks me off from access to the metal; a process that's gone too far already.

There's no reason for iTunes to try to push me into cloud every time I open. I got fed up enough with that that I'm running iTunes 10.4 under Mojave. It lets me listen to the music I want to hear, without suggesting what to play next, or trying to get me to surrender my version of a piece of music to their version of the music, that goes away when I leave WiFi or cell range. These are MY Macs, not some funny little clone pieces of a corporations garden. I want to do with them as I bloody well please, not as Some guy with bad mechanical and software engineering skills, and his giant corporation please.

These days I'm moving more towards Raspberry pi/Debian than Windows. Lots of pinouts, and very few "I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that". Be nice to have USB 3, but if I can get the hardware to do what I want without triggering "Hackerzzz!!! Alerts!!!! from Hell" I am happy.

Regardless if you understand why there's a reason for the security measures you complain about. You're right about they're your Macs so you can do what you want to them. The software to include the operating system isn't yours. You're just licensed to use it. It's the same with Windows BTW. Macs aren't for everyone and maybe they're not for you. Some people are happier with Windows and others with Linux. That's why we have choices. What works great for me could be terrible for you.

 

[Partron22]

Regardless

I've been using Macs since 84', when I traded in my Apple III For 128K memory and 400k 3.5" floppies. Immediately broke warrantee by upgrading to 512K ram.
I get cranky when Apple does things that I don't like. The 90's were a horror story.
I think the company may settle down in another 5 years or so, They have managed to avoid bankruptcy.
I started on Macs using 68000 assembly. Sold some stuff and decided maybe Consulair C would let me use the goodies in "Inside Mac I-III" more easily. That worked. asm was my favorite statement. I like being close to the metal. Most folks don't. IOW ignore me unless you share a similar bent.

Raspberry Pi

The Raspberry Pi store is much cooler than an Apple Store

 

[Hater]

Moved the PSU externally so they can be interchanged easily and used an MXM slot for the GPU, with the more powerful GPU options requiring a bigger PSU, kind of like iPod and iPad power packs.

4x SO-DIMM slots
2 or 4x NVMe slots (heh good luck with that)

2x normal mini PCI-E slots, like old Airport cards, so you can run a GSM card if you want, upgrade to newer and better AirPort as they become avaliable etc

Ah I can dream...

 

[pl1984]

I've been using Macs since 84', when I traded in my Apple III For 128K memory and 400k 3.5" floppies. Immediately broke warrantee by upgrading to 512K ram.
I get cranky when Apple does things that I don't like. The 90's were a horror story.
I think the company may settle down in another 5 years or so, They have managed to avoid bankruptcy.
I started on Macs using 68000 assembly. Sold some stuff and decided maybe Consulair C would let me use the goodies in "Inside Mac I-III" more easily. That worked. asm was my favorite statement. I like being close to the metal. Most folks don't. IOW ignore me unless you share a similar bent.

I'm right there with you. Currently writing a 6502 assembly program to perform a memory test for one of my Apple IIc system (Auxiliary RAM appears to be bad on it). Since it has the original FF ROM it doesn't include the built in memory test. Love playing around in assembly with this older hardware (especially because pretty much anything and everything you want to know about it has been published by Apple...sigh, long for the "good ol days"...lol)

 

[Tinmania]

I would like something in-between the Mac Pro and the Mac Mini. Some kind of small form-factor desktop with maybe half-tower size so that you could add a video card to it. The only additional option that I'd like from the Mini is a discrete video option - doesn't have to be a high-powered option - but just something. And there's not enough airflow for it in the current packaging.

I was in the same boat and finally just a bought a smallish win 10 desktop that was on sale at Best Buy for $540. It's actually sold as a gaming desktop, but I'd put it at low-to-mid range in that arena.

It has:
AMD Ryzen 5 2400G CPU (upgradable
AMD Radeon RX 580 video card/GPU (upgradable)
Bluetooth, a/c wifi, GB Ethernet
2 USB 2.0 Ports (rear)
4 USB 3.1 Ports (rear)
2 USB 3.1 Ports (front)
1 USB C 3.1 Port (front)
sd reader (front)
DVD writer (front)
128 GB NVMe boot drive
1TB hard drive (3.5" 7200rpm)
8GB RAM (one stick, one ram slot open)
Keyboard and mouse (both rather crappy)

I spent an additional $125 for an extra 8GB ram (the same as the existing stick) and to replace the 128GB m.2 drive with 500GB instead. I considered building my own but couldn't beat the price. With win 10 authorization burned into the m/b I simply downloaded a fresh copy of win 10 from microsoft and fresh installed without any HP bloatware (there wasn't as much as I remembered from the past). Win 10 immediately activated and that was it.

The performance is excellent. It runs an Oculus Rift without issue, and Fortnite on epic settings (you know, just for testing ). This is the first PC I have purchased in over a decade, buying several mac minis and macbooks over that time. I just don't think I could have gotten anything close to it from Apple, certainly at this price-point. And I have to say the current version of win 10 is not bad at all. For me size was not much of an issue as it sits behind the monitors (next to the mini). Others might need something smaller.

Disclosure: Wife thinks I am full of crap and was only looking for a reason to buy a PC to justify buying a Rift, two weeks after buying an Oculus Go.



Mike

 

[FreakinEurekan]

■ move the internal PSU outside, for obvious "more space" and "less EM interference" reasons (optional)

Nope. No external PSUs, please. Pain in the neck.

■ leave the case WIDTH and DEPTH the same, but instead of the round opening on the bottom make the whole bottom panel full size near-square, with 4 screws providing easy access to MEMORY and two 2.5" SSDs/HDDs (and to other user upgradeable components)

What, SATA SSDs? Please. We have the 2012 for that. Give me FAST storage.

■ increase the case HEIGHT 1,5 to 2 times in order to accommodate two standard internal 2.5" SSDs side-by-side, and provide easy access to SSD bays and memory slots

Nope. Many, many Mac Minis are rack-mounted and need to fit in a 1.75" tall enclosure. Don't screw with that.

■ user upgradeable memory - the only change here is that I would make it easy to access memory slots, by opening the bottom MM2018 panel and nothing else

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ okay, if they can do it without sacrificing performance or features. I'd guess they can't, or they would have.

■ keep SD card slot, and add microSD card slot

Why? For the small number (percentage-wise) of users who need it, it's a $10 adapter. What if I want CF? Or MemoryStick? Or a DVD drive? Physical media is on the way out, there's no need to support it by default.

■ increase USB 3.0 ports number

Four Thunderbolt 3 and two USB 3.0 and still you want more?

 

[ixxx69]

I wish the 2018 mini had a dGPU option similar to the 15" MBP.

Just to give it a little more "oomph" for graphics without the current size & additional complexity of an eGPU.

I think someone else also mentioned this as well, but I've been hoping Apple/AMD/Nvidia develop more of a "dongle" type eGPU - about the size of an iPhone, and based on lower powered GPUs that are still more powerful than Intel's iGPU. Just plug it into a TB3 port.

 

[mzs.112000]

I wish the 2018 mini had a dGPU option similar to the 15" MBP.

Just to give it a little more "oomph" for graphics without the current size & additional complexity of an eGPU.

I think someone else also mentioned this as well, but I've been hoping Apple/AMD/Nvidia develop more of a "dongle" type eGPU - about the size of an iPhone, and based on lower powered GPUs that are still more powerful than Intel's iGPU. Just plug it into a TB3 port.

That might work, Apple themselves could design an eGPU, that works directly over TB3/PCIe...
Since Apple produces their own chips, they could take the A12X GPU architecture(A12X is a SoC, includes CPU, GPU, RAM, and Modem, for a Mac, we just need the GPU portion), and increase the core count from 7 cores to 28 cores(it would work since they would be getting rid of the CPU, Modem and RAM portions, increasing chip area that's usable for GPU compute cores, in addition, they are removing the screen, battery and speakers from the iPhone-sized case, making more room for a bigger chip and heatsink).

Actually, I think that if Apple could build a small(iPhone XS Max sized) eGPU, that works via industry standard TB3, and sell it for a low enough price, it would sell like hot-cakes, especially if Apple released drivers for all platforms(macOS, Linux and Windows). I could buy one to extend the lifespan of my Core2Quad laptop(I have an ExpressCard slot, which is based on PCIe, in theory if such a GPU existed, all a company needs to do is release a ExpressCard that exposes the 2x PCIe lanes over USB-C. It would even work on ancient MacBook computers that have crappy GMA(Intel Graphical Media Decellerators), but also have ExpressCard.

 

[russell_314]

Actually, I think that if Apple could build a small(iPhone XS Max sized) eGPU, that works via industry standard TB3, and sell it for a low enough price, it would sell like hot-cakes

I would buy it for around $300 if it could play modern games on medium settings with decent FPS. Maybe a mobile GPU chip to keep power consumption and heat down.

 

[pl1984]

What, SATA SSDs? Please. We have the 2012 for that. Give me FAST storage.

I would hazard a guess the 99% of Mini owners won't be able to tell the difference between a SATA SSD.

Nope. Many, many Mac Minis are rack-mounted and need to fit in a 1.75" tall enclosure. Don't screw with that.

I'd rather have the extra room for expansion over retaining the same form factor merely because "many, many Mac Mini's are rack-mounted".

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ okay, if they can do it without sacrificing performance or features. I'd guess they can't, or they would have.

They could, they just didn't.

Why? For the small number (percentage-wise) of users who need it, it's a $10 adapter. What if I want CF? Or MemoryStick? Or a DVD drive? Physical media is on the way out, there's no need to support it by default.

My Z440 has all of those options and I use them all the time. Physical media may be on the way out for you but for many others it's still useful.

Four Thunderbolt 3 and two USB 3.0 and still you want more?

Apparently he does.

You appear to have forgotten the question was "What would you have done differently". The person you responded to answered what they would have done differently. The fact you wouldn't have done these things is irrelevant. They're important to the person you responded to.

 

[mzs.112000]

I would buy it for around $300 if it could play modern games on medium settings with decent FPS. Maybe a mobile GPU chip to keep power consumption and heat down.

Yes, that was my point. A mobile-derived chip, 28 GPU cores instead of 7.
iPad Pro only has 7 because the CPU has to do other things as well besides GPU workloads, and iPad also has to have a screen and a battery and other internals. My hypothetical iPhone-sized GPU doesn't have any of those requirements, literally, it just has to be a PCB with a GPU chip and a PCIe/TB3 controller chip, we can make the case out of aluminium for cooling, and it connects to the computer.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

I would hazard a guess the 99% of Mini owners won't be able to tell the difference between a SATA SSD.

I'd guess 1%, which apparently includes you The truth is probably in the middle somewhere, but my guess is that 1% is closer to the truth than 99%.

I'd rather have the extra room for expansion over retaining the same form factor merely because "many, many Mac Mini's are rack-mounted".

Then it wouldn't be a Mini any more. When I say "Many" are rack mounted, I'm not kidding - my guess is that it's the vast majority, maybe I'm wrong and it's just a slight majority

Physical media may be on the way out for you but for many others it's still useful.

It's not "on the way out", it's ancient history for me and most others. That's why you have USB adapters. If you need that sort of storage externally, use your Z440. Or you can have around 8 Mac Minis with the external adapters, in the same cubic space.

You appear to have forgotten the question was "What would you have done differently". The person you responded to answered what they would have done differently. The fact you wouldn't have done these things is irrelevant. They're important to the person you responded to.

And the changes that would affect me negatively (slowing down storage, putting in an external power supply, enlarging the enclosure, wasting money & space on sockets that are as useless as a floppy drive to most of the users) are important to me.

 

[pl1984]

I'd guess 1%, which apparently includes you The truth is probably in the middle somewhere, but my guess is that 1% is closer to the truth than 99%.

I disagree, I think it's considerably closer to 99%. Why? Because those high performance numbers people keep referring to are for sequential disk access. They do not apply to random access. It's my opinion the majority of Mini owners do not spend their computing time copying larger files. Instead they start their computer, load applications, work with moderately sized files, etc. The bulk of that is primarily random in nature.

This is the reason why replacing a spinning disk with a SATA SSD results in a noticeable improvement in disk related responsiveness. It is also the reason why replacing a SATA SSD with an NVMe based solution doesn't yield significant, if any, noticeable improvement in disk related responsiveness.

Then it wouldn't be a Mini any more. When I say "Many" are rack mounted, I'm not kidding - my guess is that it's the vast majority, maybe I'm wrong and it's just a slight majority

I'm not interested in how many are rack mounted. If rack mounting is important than Apple needs to bring back the Xserve which used standard rack mounting specifications.

As for it no longer being a Mini well, we'll have to disagree there too. Increasing the height by the suggested 1.5 times would change it from 1.4" to 2.1", and increase of .7", hardly what I would consider "wouldn't be a Mini any more".

It's not "on the way out", it's ancient history for me and most others.

Which is why I said:

Physical media may be on the way out for you...​

That's why you have USB adapters. If you need that sort of storage externally, use your Z440. Or you can have around 8 Mac Minis with the external adapters, in the same cubic space.

I am using my Z440 and not one of my Macs. None of my Mac Pros (2006, 2008, 2010, and 2013) permit the mounting of a CF card within the enclosure. The same goes for the Mini. CF card support is important for me as my camera, a Canon 1Dx, utilizes them. This is why I immediately followed the above statement with:

...but for many others it's still useful.​

It's a shame that Apple doesn't even offer a solution to meet my, and others, needs in this area.

And the changes that would affect me negatively (slowing down storage, putting in an external power supply, enlarging the enclosure, wasting money & space on sockets that are as useless as a floppy drive to most of the users) are important to me.

Again it's not about you but what the person you responded to wants. You don't like his suggestions? Fine, you're entitled to dislike them. But the person you responded to was offering their opinion of what they'd like to see different. IOW he was answering the question asked and not answering the question "What does FreakinEurekan want in a Mini".

 

[russell_314]

I'd guess 1%, which apparently includes you The truth is probably in the middle somewhere, but my guess is that 1% is closer to the truth than 99%.


Then it wouldn't be a Mini any more. When I say "Many" are rack mounted, I'm not kidding - my guess is that it's the vast majority, maybe I'm wrong and it's just a slight majority

It's not "on the way out", it's ancient history for me and most others. That's why you have USB adapters. If you need that sort of storage externally, use your Z440. Or you can have around 8 Mac Minis with the external adapters, in the same cubic space.


And the changes that would affect me negatively (slowing down storage, putting in an external power supply, enlarging the enclosure, wasting money & space on sockets that are as useless as a floppy drive to most of the users) are important to me.

I wish I could give this a thousand likes. I think people are wanting something from the mini that it's not. They want a Mac pro. The thing that makes the mini a mini is its small form factor, low price, and it's still powerful enough for most tasks. Most of the things people want out of the mini would drive up the price to more than its intended market is willing to pay. The original intent of the mini was to make the Mac accessible to those who otherwise couldn't afford a Mac

 

[pl1984]

I wish I could give this a thousand likes. I think people are wanting something from the mini that it's not. They want a Mac pro. The thing that makes the mini a mini is its small form factor, low price, and it's still powerful enough for most tasks. Most of the things people want out of the mini would drive up the price to more than its intended market is willing to pay. The original intent of the mini was to make the Mac accessible to those who otherwise couldn't afford a Mac

Or they're asking for the return of things that existed on previous Mini's:

• External PSU: Mini already had that
• Two intenal SATA HDs: Mini already that
• Easy access to upgrade memory: Mini already had that
• SD card slot: Mini already had that
• USB ports: Mini already had four of them. I assume the OP meant more Type-A ports as the TB3 ports can function as USB 3.0 ports.

IOW there's not a thing on the list that FreakinEurekan responded to that hasn't already existed on the Mini. Certainly none of those items I would consider professional level requests.

 

[philipma1957]

Apple killed the sata drive. I have no removable upgrade able options Just a soldered in nvme ssd.

I have zero need for a mobile pc. The mac mini desktop is a perfect size for my needs.

Since I am going to plug this into the wall bring back the brick. No none should dislike the brick (let see how many say I am wrong). Do all the same give me a brick and an internal ssd slot.

I plug the brick in to the same plug the mini plugs into now.
and I add this 8tb ssd www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1Z4-00CB-00016

I plug in a nas out of site and out of mind for backup I use blue tooth mouse keyboard.
same wire foot print.
1 eth cable
1 power cord
1 monitor cable

and I have an 8tb unit with speeds that work for me.

those that don't want the sata order it empty
those that don't want the nvme order it empty

an 8tb ssd would be overkill for my needs .

2tb ssd works. but to lock me into a soldered nvme apple lost me.

the nice shape of the mini is lost to addons if I want a large boot drive.

to those that say just have a small boot drive and an external work drive. I say a work a round for an apple f u we are apple , design flaw

 

[F-Train]

to those that say just have a small boot drive and an external work drive. I say a work a round for an apple f u we are apple , design flaw

If people want to set up their computer that way, who are you to tell them that they are wrong and/or victims of a design flaw? I have an original 11” MacBook Air, maximum 128GB internal flash drive. It was, and is, a great little computer. Your problem with the 11” Air is what, exactly?

In my 2018 mini, I have a 512GB internal drive, used solely as a workspace, and I just set up a 1TB external NVMe that will be used for easily moveable storage and in some cases for work: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/samsung-t5-x5-equivalents.2167739/page-4#post-27103227

Do you have a problem with that too?

 

[pl1984]

If people want to set up their computer that way, who are you to tell them that they are wrong and/or victims of a design flaw? I have an original 11” MacBook Air, maximum 128GB internal flash drive. It was, and is, a great little computer. Your problem with the 11” Air is what, exactly?

I didn't see him make any statement about the 11" MBA.

 

[russell_314]

Or they're asking for the return of things that existed on previous Mini's:

• External PSU: Mini already had that
• Two intenal SATA HDs: Mini already that
• Easy access to upgrade memory: Mini already had that
• SD card slot: Mini already had that
• USB ports: Mini already had four of them. I assume the OP meant more Type-A ports as the TB3 ports can function as USB 3.0 ports.

IOW there's not a thing on the list that FreakinEurekan responded to that hasn't already existed on the Mini. Certainly none of those items I would consider professional level requests.

I find much of your "mini had that" was removed because it's obsolete.

• External PSU: Mini already had that (Maybe this could have made easier access to memory so I can see the point. I prefer not having another brick in exchange for a one time memory upgrade but I can see how someone would want this)
• Two intenal SATA HDs: Mini already that (It's 2019, spinning drives are becoming obsolete. You can get a 2 TB SSD now)
• Easy access to upgrade memory: Mini already had that (I'll give you that one but the memory is still upgradable unlike the last model mini)
• SD card slot: Mini already had that (mini also had a CD drive and that's gone as well. With wireless data transfer it's becoming obsolete and Apple is quick to cut obsolete tech)
• USB ports: Mini already had four of them. I assume the OP meant more Type-A ports as the TB3 ports can function as USB 3.0 ports. (The 2018 mini has six USB ports, four USB C and two older USB A type. To be honest I'm surprised Apple gave it any USB A ports.)

 

[pl1984]

I find much of your "mini had that" was removed because it's obsolete.

Obsolete? Power supplies are obsolete? Upgradeable memory is obsolete? USB ports are obsolete?

• External PSU: Mini already had that (Maybe this could have made easier access to memory so I can see the point. I prefer not having another brick in exchange for a one time memory upgrade but I can see how someone would want this)

How is having an external PSU obsolete?

• Two intenal SATA HDs: Mini already that (It's 2019, spinning drives are becoming obsolete. You can get a 2 TB SSD now)

OP mentioned SATA SSD so it's not a matter of spinning drives.

• Easy access to upgrade memory: Mini already had that (I'll give you that one but the memory is still upgradable unlike the last model mini)

Which is why the OP specifically called out "easy".

• SD card slot: Mini already had that (mini also had a CD drive and that's gone as well. With wireless data transfer it's becoming obsolete and Apple is quick to cut obsolete tech)

Don't care. This medium continues to enjoy wide spread use. Nothing simpler than pulling the card and inserting it into a slot. You may not want it but the fact is the Mini had it and I cannot see any technical reason for removing it.

• USB ports: Mini already had four of them. I assume the OP meant more Type-A ports as the TB3 ports can function as USB 3.0 ports. (The 2018 mini has six USB ports, four USB C and two older USB A type. To be honest I'm surprised Apple gave it any USB A ports.)

Which is why I said:

I assume the OP meant more Type-A ports as the TB3 ports can function as USB 3.0 ports.​

Was there a reason you basically said what I said?

 

[SpacemanSpiffed]

I've done this thought exercise a couple times here in past posts, but missed this thread until today:

From memory:

Changed the CPU offerings to include Iris Plus 655 options
- Note - the way Intel redesigned their EDRAM interface, the EDRAM/L4 cache size is tied to the number of cores, (64MB dual/128 quad) which is why we've not see any 6+ core CPU with EDRAM. The 6-core CPUs would need 192MB EDRAM

Offered a version with the i7-8706G, or it's successor - CPU - 65W with RX Vega M GPU & 4GB HBM VRAM
- Apple had no problem with multiple motherboard designs with the 2011 mini... just saying

Allow for 1 or 2 standard 2280 NVMe drives internally - make the T2 chip do encryption, but make the drives (re)moveable and solve the problem of what happens to your data when something else kills the motherboard. Perhaps even a socketed T2/master key chip that could be transplanted by apple repair techs. I still think the loss of data on the drives when the Mini's MB dies is going become an ongoing issue.

Add a small panel to the front - put a USB 3.1 type-A charging jack in the center. To the sides, put dual pinhole mics, like the Intel NUCs have, so the Mini's can support "Hey Siri".

I'm torn on adding the card reader back.

I used to want to see space internally for 2.5" drives, but a while back I made a post here titled "What OWC needs to make next" which was a new Mini-Stack with space for 2.5" drives and a MXM card eGPU, via TB3 links. With 2x 2280 Drives in the mini, you could get 4TB internally, so a majority of needs/use cases would be covered. New mini-stacks, connected by TB3 links, would allow for people wanting more serious and flexiable expansion options with minimal footprint impact on their desks.

 

[scottsjack]

Yes. All of mine are full. Four USB ports would have been really nice to have. An internal SD card reader would have freed up one TB or USB port.

 

[Photoshopper]

Definitely better cooling. I could fry an egg on my i7 when I'm cutting video. Shudder to think what it will be like on a warm summer day...

 

[FreakinEurekan]

Or they're asking for the return of things that existed on previous Mini's:

DVD-ROMs, Core 2 Duo processors, FireWire ports...

If you were right, I'd agree with you.

 

[pl1984]

DVD-ROMs, Core 2 Duo processors, FireWire ports...

If you were right, I'd agree with you.

Your agreement, or not, is irrelevant to the validity of my argument. If you've got a point state it, otherwise don't make us guess.