Mac Mini Released

[Misplaced Mage]

no monitor i understand, but no keyboard or mouse? It's cool to me, but I wonder how other potential switchers feel about it.

If they're switching from a PC purchased in the last couple of years (e.g., a Dell system), the system probably came with a USB keyboard and mouse in addition to the monitor. They thus just unplug the PC from all its peripherals, and plug in the Mac mini instead.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Two things. First. Is this thing core image capable? I have to imagine it is. Apple wouldn’t be stupid enough to release a product, albeit a low end product, less then 6 months from the release of Tiger. Even if it isn’t it wouldn’t be a deal killer. Its $599 for god sake.
Secondly upgrades. I’ve heard hearsay, rumors and general speculation on what actually voids the warrantee on this device. Someone said (www.arstechnica.com) simply cracking the case voids it. Someone else said that only if you damage something it voids the warrantee. Another said that an Apple store will do any upgrade for you for $50. Does anyone know for sure? Why do I care? $433 for 1GB is freaking asinine esp when you can get it for half that price in other locations. Why they didn’t design it like a laptop mobo with the memory slot on the bottom of the board? *shrugs* At any rate I won’t pay $433 for 1GB. And pride prohibits me from going to an Apple store for an upgrade. For god sake I can practically field strip a laptop, blindfolded, hanging upside down. I shouldn’t need to go into any tech store for a bloody RAM upgrade!

Then there is the hard drive. Looking at the tiny pictures on Apple’s site:

It looks like they aren’t using a desktop hard drive. If that is the case then the likelihood of an actual upgrade to a higher capacity 7400RPM drive (If there is even a 7200 drive in the thing to begin with?!?) is nil or at the very least unlikely. I personally would want at the minimum a 100GB drive in this thing. 43GB of music + another 6GB of photographs + applications. I wouldn’t define it as tight but in a year? Heh by that time I’ll probably have my G5 PowerBook with a 100GB drive and it will be a moot point

All of the above are nit picks. Nothing in the Mac Mini is a deal killer but t would be nice to get some of my questions answered. Time for a trip to the Apple store this weekend.

 

[SiliconAddict]

If they're switching from a PC purchased in the last couple of years (e.g., a Dell system), the system probably came with a USB keyboard and mouse in addition to the monitor. They thus just unplug the PC from all its peripherals, and plug in the Mac mini instead.

I personally don't care. Since I'm prob going to go Bluetooth on the Mini's *** it works out better this way. Even more so since I don't have to throw out the one button mouse which I would assuredly do if it came with one. Well I'd throw it out after running it over with my car.

 

[SiliconAddict]

The eMac is still a better deal. For $300 more one gets a 17' monitor, keyboard and mouse.

Hmmm

lets see:

Mouse....own one.
Keyboard...own one.
20" Monitor...own one.


Where is this deal you speak of?

 

[SiliconAddict]

Would you pay $300 for CRT monitor, keyboard and mouse?

Esp considering you can get a 20" CRT for $300 now a days. Not a good deal at all AFAIC.

PS- And yes I'm on a posting bender.

 

[mouchoir]

what a joke.

this is a potential pr nightmare, especially where switchers are concerned.

no monitor.

no mouse or keyboard.

if you walked into an apple store and saw this as a pc user, and then found that the cheapest display in the store is $999, and the thing doesn't even have a mouse or keyboard, you're gonna leave and tell your mates what a rip off this thing is.

did no-one learn from the cube fiasco...

 

[gwangung]

what a joke.

this is a potential pr nightmare, especially where switchers are concerned.

no monitor.

no mouse or keyboard.

if you walked into an apple store and saw this as a pc user, and then found that the cheapest display in the store is $999, and the thing doesn't even have a mouse or keyboard, you're gonna leave and tell your mates what a rip off this thing is.

did no-one learn from the cube fiasco...

PUH-leaze. They obviously did.

As a PC user, you CAN TAKE YOUR OLD KEYBOARD, MOUSE and MONITOR WITH YOU. Just like you did with your old PC.

 

[rdowns]

All of the above are nit picks. Nothing in the Mac Mini is a deal killer but t would be nice to get some of my questions answered. Time for a trip to the Apple store this weekend.

Probably a waste of time. They won't have the units on hand until end of next week. At least that is what I was told by 2 different people when I called my local Apple Store.

 

[retrospek]

As a Windows user, I'm very happy they didn't include the screen, mouse and keyboard.

I already have these things. This is why I haven't bought the iMac G5 because I'm not interested in another screen on my desk.

 

[SiliconAddict]

what a joke.

this is a potential pr nightmare, especially where switchers are concerned.

no monitor.

no mouse or keyboard.

if you walked into an apple store and saw this as a pc user, and then found that the cheapest display in the store is $999, and the thing doesn't even have a mouse or keyboard, you're gonna leave and tell your mates what a rip off this thing is.

did no-one learn from the cube fiasco...

*Sighs* Mac users really need to stick with what they are good at. Mac systems. You guys are so use to the all in one system. (well iMac users at any rate.) You simply miss the fact that, pay attention here this is the important part:

PC USERS ALREADY HAVE A MONITOR, A KEYBOARD, AND A MOUSE!

More often then not when someone is looking for a PC upgrade on, as an example, Dell's site; they simply get the computer and dump their old one. They don't replace the monitor. Honestly this is NOT a big deal for existing PC users. The only issue is the fact that Apple isn't taking into consideration that MANY PC users are still using PS/2 keyboards and mice. Apple didn't provide an adapter for these devices and consequently many will have to buy a new mouse and keyboard. Oh god no!?!? What is that? $50 minimum for a good keyboard and optical mouse??

 

[mleok]

The disposable Mac

Since I have a 15" 1.25 AlBook, and a 12" 1.2 iBook, I find the discussion of the new Mac mini being underpowered to be somewhat amusing. As a person who uses PCs extensively, one thing I find truly amazing about Mac OS X is its ability to scale depending on the hardware it runs on. With an adequate amount of RAM, it runs quite decently even on legacy equipment like my iMac G3 350.

PCs don't fare anywhere as well in this regard, and a rash of upgrades typically ensues whenever a major Windows upgrade is released.

So the ATI Radeon 9200 doesn't support pixel shading and as a consequence doesn't support CoreImage, without a doubt if the G4 isn't up to picking up the slack from the GPU, Tiger will simply turn off the fancy special effects, not a big deal.

Perhaps the reason why so many Mac users are up in arms about the new Mac Mini is that caters to a different purchasing mentality, one which is perhaps more common in the PC community. The majority of PC users do not hold on to their machines for as long as Mac users, this is in part a consequence of Windows not scaling well on legacy equipment, but also because of the relatively high cost of an entry-level Mac. This difference in culture explains to some extent the high resale value of used Macs, and the huge cottage industry for third-party CPU upgrades.

What the Mac Mini represents is the first disposable Mac, at these prices why worry about expandability and upgradability, just toss the box in two years, and buy a new one. At these prices, most people can afford to do so.

The Mac Mini does present some challenges to the Mac enthusiast, since the real challenge is to order only what you need. So for example, it only costs an additional $100 to up the CPU by 10%, and double the HDD, but if you won't really need that until a year from now, you might want to just get the base unit with 512MB of RAM, and put the $100 towards a new Mac Mini. After all, $100 is 20% of the price of a new machine.

There is some truth to the contention that the Mac Mini pricing can really nickel and dime you, and all I can say to people whining about the cost of the Mac Mini is, check out eBay, and see what $500 gets you on the used Mac market... not too much. I just sold my iMac G3 350, 768MB of RAM, 7 GB HDD, CD-ROM for $220 on eBay in anticipation of the Mac mini, and I'll be hooking it up to my current 17" LCD (which I got for $200), and an IOGear KVM switch which I share with the PC laptop on my desk.

Having said that, if you are new to computers in general, then a refurbished eMac for $650 might not be a bad deal.

 

[tutubibi]

Unfortunately, a lot of even most recent PCs from Dell and other brand names includes PS/2 only keyboard and mouse. How obsolete.

Still, I think it's excelent idea not to include K/M with Mac mini. If you need one, you can always add it to your order. I wish it's same with eMac and iMac.

 

[jer2eydevil88]

My Mac Mini

I bought a Mac Mini, I had to! How could I pass on this? I have been trying to get a good deal on ebay for a year now.

Cost me $750 with student discount and I got a Superdrive .

Now then debian people how long do you expect a build to take for this machine?

 

[12thgear]

what a joke.

this is a potential pr nightmare, especially where switchers are concerned.

no monitor.

no mouse or keyboard.

if you walked into an apple store and saw this as a pc user, and then found that the cheapest display in the store is $999, and the thing doesn't even have a mouse or keyboard, you're gonna leave and tell your mates what a rip off this thing is.

did no-one learn from the cube fiasco...

No monitor? Good, a switcher can keep his. Or buy alternatives. And if said shopper actually bothers to talk to the store employees (and if I was spending $500+ I'd bother to ask questions and do research), they'd learn that Apple's Cinema Displays are targeting the high end. If the employee was doing his job he'd also point out that Apple sells cheap displays online: Cheap CRT.

No mouse and keyboard? Apple sells their own and also offers ones from other vendors at various price points. Or people can bring their own. Apple's diagram of a Mac mini setup on their own page clearly shows the mini being used with a different vendor's mouse, keyboard, and display.

I would love to see the Apple Store have a Mac mini on demo plugged into Apple gear, and then next to it have a Mac mini on demo plugged into that cheap Mitsubishi CRT I linked to and a Logitech mouse/kb combo hooked up. Clear way to point out how the mini can be used in a clearly obvious manner.

 

[Buggy]

Can everybody stop with the Keyboard/Mouse thing!

How many of us toss our Apple mouse as soon as we get it. At my work we use nothing but 3 button mice. I have a box of optical apple mice collecting dust. Huge waste of money!

Good move Apple!

I now have more freedom to choose what I want in a computer.

 

[MacUser4Life1]

I don't get it...

...sure, the switcher might bite. But why not spend $1900 on an iMac 20" complete - faster computer with everything.

Na, this is cute, but it will, along with the "random" iPod, fail miserably.

 

[nagromme]

Go with the mini. The 20" stand-alone display is reported to be much better than the one included with the iMac. Of course the iMac is a bit faster now. But as you can keep everything besides the actual mini box you will probably get a faster mini after MWSF '06. With the iMac you are "stuck" performance wise for its lifetime...

Buying a Mini and getting a $500 upgrade every couple years is indeed an interesting strategy that makes it worth looking at even if you CAN afford an iMac. You'll start out slower but end up faster! Food for thought as I advise my friends. Also: the Mac Mini can be transported easily to give presentations, or to set up at someone else's screen while on a trip. SOME of a laptop's benefits.

Now that we know all the fact about the new Mac mini

1. How would a
...

Do performance wise and what can it be used for

2. Since it comes with the 9200 with 32MB VRAM, and apple has said that the lowest card supported for core image is the gfx5200, will this be able to run Tiger with core image(apple will make some sort of a tweak to enable the 9200 for core image)

3. I have a Pentium 4 2.8Ghz
...

Could the Mac mini replace/be on the same level of computing as it(OK slower cpu but less ram so would it compensate for that, and it would offcourse run OS X and i really hope Tiger too )

1. What can it be used for? Anything. I do high-end graphics and sound editing on my 1.25 Ghz G4, and play UT2004. The performance of the Radeon 9200 is a mystery to me, though--people say it's quite good for a PC in this price range, but I can't compare it to what you're used to. Try a game in a store before you buy?

2. Will it run Tiger? Absolutely, in all its glory. Specific Core Image features of high-end video apps are just that: high-end, for high-end machines. You probably won't get those, and won't ever want them either. Tiger supports high-end hardware--but it does not require it. It even runs on a G3 last I heard!

3. It's a different machine from your PC on every level from CPU to OS. So so some things will be--or feel--faster, while others will be slower. And each Mhz on a Mac is faster than each MHz on a PC--because a PowerPC processor gets more DONE in each cycle. Plus the G4 has Velocity Engine (excellent vector processor) which really speeds up certain things. But regardless, you're in for a treat--the OS gets our of your way and lets you do your thing. The learning curve is short, and the rewards are great! And it will get along well with your old PC, so hang onto that for a while and have the best of both worlds: the familiar and the new. One of which will be virus-free

Excellent solution: A 149$ XBOX plays Halo, as well as Halo 2 Very well, no dropped frames. Surround sound, HDTV output. Bigscreen capable.

A console's a great option, and one I respect. But there's a flipside. I like gaming on TV from my PowerBook (which the Mac Mini can also do), but I could never have a console as my main game machine. A console has low pixel detail and a blurry picture--that's the nature of a TV. I'm spoiled by LCD sharpness, and that's what I want most of the time. And a console doesn't let you download thousands of free maps, mods, demos, and entire games--something I demand. I've downloaded so much great stuff for UT2004, I've gotten 10 times more than I paid for! All free and legal. And I like having multiplayer on my regular Internet connection. Lastly and most importantly... trying to aim in Halo on X-Box was absolutely maddening. You can learn to do it, but aiming with a MOUSE is SO much easier. And a keyboard may not look "cool" but it has a LOT more buttons for weapons and things. So mouse+keyboard--or mouse+left-hand-pad (there are some cool ones) is the only way I would enjoy a 3D game. Few console titles allow mice. Halo does not!

That doesn't mean a console doesn't have its place--not everyone wants what I want--but that's the flipside.

Also, one reason consoles can play faster is that they run at low-res (640x480) to a TV. TV blurriness hides the defects of a lower-quality image. You can do the same trick with a Mac! Run your Mac Mini or laptop (or iMac, or eMac...) to TV at 640x480! Once you get past the blurriness of a TV, it looks really good! You can "get away" with 640x480, and get higher framerates that way.

So I do enjoy playing UT04 on TV sometimes.

 

[nagromme]

...sure, the switcher might bite. But why not spend $1900 on an iMac 20" complete - faster computer with everything.

Na, this is cute, but it will, along with the "random" iPod, fail miserably.

Why not? Because the Mac Mini is $1400 cheaper That matters to some. If it doesn't matter to you, the iMac G5 is a better machine in most ways.

It's not just switchers who already have a display, keyboard, and mouse... A great many Mac users do too. And if you don't... the Mac Mini lets you choose any display you want--even inexpensive ones.

That is the point of a low-end headless Mac: the screen is not built in, and you pay less. There might be a FEW people who want those things

 

[SiliconAddict]

Probably a waste of time. They won't have the units on hand until end of next week. At least that is what I was told by 2 different people when I called my local Apple Store.

DOH! Yah just called the Mall. They aren't going to have them in til 22nd. FYI Don't call them the minis. They will assume you are talking iPod Minis.

Seems a little odd since from the picts I saw they had demo units at Macworld. You'd think if they had them there they should be able to handle the 101 stores in the US. LOL Apple must have JUST gotten them in this week. Maybe a security measure to ensure that a REAL elevator picture didn't occur.

 

[wowser]

How does it work with say, a Microdoft Office keyboard? Is there an eject button on the actual Mac, and how do you alter the volume controls? And so on and such like...

 

[SiliconAddict]

I don't get it....

Obviously.

 

[BillD222]

Price?

...sure, the switcher might bite. But why not spend $1900 on an iMac 20" complete - faster computer with everything.

Na, this is cute, but it will, along with the "random" iPod, fail miserably.

Probably b/c one could buy 2 full mac mini setups 4 the price on the iMac 20. MacMall has 19" LCDs in the $300 range and tey're giving away free k/m and even a Wireless-G router! Oh, and 1 GB RAM for 2 something. I'm sure they'll soon have free ram upgrades, too.

Apple Store is nothe only game in town - especillay with only a $20 ed. discount.

 

[awesomebase]

Excellent System

Apple definitely needed something like this. I know there are going to be a lot of complaints over RAM, the video card, etc. etc. but lets face it, the vast majority of people do only these things with their computers:
1) email
2) chat
3) word processing
4) listen to music
5) upload and manage home video/photos
6) banking, financial software
7) games
8) printing docs, photos, etc.
I think this new system definitely covers the first 6 items without fail. As for the seventh, even the PC is having a difficult time making a case for being a "game" machine when the likes of Sony and Microsoft are producing game machines for $149. Printing depends more on how good a printer you have and the paper. Apple has the software area completely covered. For anybody, this is an incredible deal for an extremely well-built system. Remember, we're not talking about a system that is a good 30 times larger, requires you to go inside it and add huge cards or anything. This is a very elegantly design home system that weighs less than 3 pounds! You can get flat panels very cheap and being able to take it with you on a trip say with your projector for a presentation even is very reasonable and easy.
I'm not sure if the memory is the same as a laptop, but judging from the hard drive sizes, I would say that they are of the 2.5" variety. Otherwise I could see them offering 160GB and 250GB options. It would be doubtful if a 3.5" hard drive was included with this type of weight for the system, but, not impossible I suppose.

 

[SilentBen]

For all the people on this forum who like to disect the Mac Mini and say that there are better deals, there are more powerful machines, etc..

The Mini is for one niche, if you can call it that. It's for PC users. They expect bare bones, the average PC user does not even care about internal expansion. They care that it's cheap and things plug into it. The Mini hits right on both accounts.

It is still a Mac though, and mac users are going to be confused as to where it fits in their lives. Apple has a history of offering one product per segment. Powerbook, iBook, eMac, Powermac, iMac... where does the mini fit.

The answer. Right next to your TV.
Think of this as the Mac OS Media Center.

or take it from place to place as a luggable.

It's not an iMac, it's not an eMac, and it's certainly not a Power Mac. It's for people who know it's limitations and are not going to try and do Final Cut Pro HD on it (although I plan on using it as a Logic Head).

Terrac

I don't know if I'd use the word luggable. What would you call a powerbook that weighs more?

 

[Jetson]

Will There Be a New eMac Soon?

This mini Mac is a wonderful innovation. Apple and Steve Jobs continue to please and amaze us Apple customers. I'm so happy that Jobs is back at Apple!

Apple could really hit a home run with the mini Mac if they provided a RGB or S-video jack so that you could use your television as a monitor. The tiny size of this new Mac makes it a perfect TV set top box. I bet it would be a knockout competitor to the comparatively weak Microsoft WebTV product.

This new mini Mac is almost 50% faster than the 1ghz eMac that I bought last year. I hope that Apple is planning to release a new eMac with some REAL horsepower under the hood - a G5 perhaps. And not a wimpy version of it either.

I love the eMac. I know some of you consider it the "red-headed stepchild" of the Macintosh line up. But you're so wrong! It's a great machine for many of us and I would definitely be looking to upgrade if Apple gave me compelling reasons to do so.