Mac Mini Released

[SiliconAddict]

Actually my biggest concern about the mini is the amount of RAM in the thing. People are going to simply purchase the default 256MB, open up the box when it arrives on their doorstep, start up the system, and complain about the speed.
Sorry, but every Mac user I've ever known has told me 512MB as minimum. Whether this is overstating the specs I don't know but they are my Apple geek friends and I am the PC geek (The yang to my yin .) and I trust them when they say 512. Consequently I'm somewhat concerned that Apple and OS X might get a bad rep because the anemic amount of RAM. And its not as if an average user can crack the case and easily upgrade the memory later...hmm

 

[raeble]

What's to be confused about. Get a hub or get a mac keyboard. You gave the solution yourself.

Yes but then you are starting to spend extra money on something. The whole point of this is that you have spare keyboards and mice you don't need to buy new ones. Once you start having to buy bits it makes it more expensive.

most people have a usb hub already and if theyre upgrading their bondi imacs they can just keeep the keyboard

oh and on ebay you can find mac keyboards and mice for 30 bucks...

I don't agree with that. I'd say that most people don't, most pc's come with at least four usb ports. My two year old pc came with six as standard.

I live in the uk, I'd have to add extortionate shipping and customs duties to that price. As I said most people do not have macs.

 

[BlackDan]

You guy's think this might handle DOOM3? I know it is not a gaming machine but the ATI 9200 in this mini is not bad. Way to GO Apple.

P.S Allready ordered one.

It will definitely NOT handle Doom 3 at its highest settings, but then again, which PC does?

I hear Doom 3 scales well to lower specced HW (with some eye-candy turned off of course). If this is what you wanna buy the Mini for, don't, get a ful spec G5 with a decent Gfx card. You'll only be disappointed in the mini otherwise. The 9200 has only 32Mb Ram which is way too little for any decent games that were recently released...

 

[topofthawoz]

Just a query:

Mac mini has 2 Usb Ports
Most PC users have a Ps2 keyboard

Therefore, most Pc users will have to buy either
1. an apple kboard or
2. a non apple usb keyboard and a usb hub, as a keyboard and a mouse, both usb, would use all the ports on the mini

This seems to be quite annoying as the latter would set you back say an easy Au$100

Thoughts?

 

[BillD222]

huh??

Graphics card is plenty powerful for 2D apps. Although the Mac mini video card wont be able to handle core image functions in Tiger. Pity though. Perhaps another update in 6 months?

How wouold you know? Alos, even if it did not fully support core image or even some Tiger functions (I run Panther on my old Rev A iBook (my wife's now) and it works fine for what she does) it would be fine for whom it is designed!! . Basic users!! BTW it is a 3D accelerator card! It may not handle as many high powerd games, but most out know only require 32 MB. If u r that in 2 gaming get an iMac or better, a PowerMac.

U know-nothings crack me up!!!!

It is to help those holding out on upgrading due to cashflow to buy imacs or powermacs and maybe even some PC newcomers or switchers. That's all it's for.

 

[Yvan256]

The eMac is still a better deal. For $300 more one gets a 17' monitor, keyboard and mouse.

So what? I already have a 15" monitor, keyboard and mouse. Why would I spent 360$CAN extra on stuff I don't need?

Now, does anyone want to buy an Athlon XP 2400+ with 512MB DDR400, Western Digital 80GB 7200 RPM HD, a Plexwriter 8/4/32A, Creative 2x DVD-ROM and GeForce 4 MX 440 64MB for... oh.... 600$US?

 

[maxterpiece]

Its highly likely the Mac mini will be a flop. You can't judge initial fan reaction and come to the conclusion this thing will sell. You only need to look at the G4 Cube to see the same thing. Initial reaction for it was positively overwhelming, but it ended up not selling because of price.

For the mini, the opposite is true, the price is right, but the performance suffers. And as a result, I am certain, even with all the adulation it is receiving, the mini will flop magnificently.

weren't you banned like 2 or 3 weeks ago? how can you still post?

Also, this is marketed to people who have 0% interest in specs and 100% interest in size, how the thing looks, how it fits into their lifestyle. Mac Mini scores an A+ on all of these categories. The cube had the design for a consumer but the specs and price for a pro. This now has been corrected and Apple has put the specs and price for a consumer in a package similar to the cube. Let apple's stock fall for until just before they announce earnings, then drop a pretty penny in and you will make some good cash.

 

[BlackDan]

I for one am glad Apple didn't include a keyboard and mouse. I dont like either of them anyway. The keyboard is at a crazy, NON-ADJUSTABLE angle the one button/no scroll wheel mouse sucks! If not including them helps keep the price down then thats great. I think they should make the mouse and kb optional on all macs!

I agree. Well the keyboard is Ok, but the mouse please Apple: 2 buttons and a scroll wheel. It's not THAT hard!

I for one use a Microsoft optical Notebook mouse on my iBook and I would NEVER trade it for a Apple mouse not even one with Bluetooth that connects seamlessly to my iBook.

 

[maxterpiece]

In my office several of our PC-based IT guys said that they would be placing orders for the new Mac - these are guys who are always slamming Apple and everything Mac. I have also had 4 PC-based friends call to ask me about the new Mac - they'll all be buying them.

Whatever the drawbacks of these machines may be the intended effect of switching PC users and gain of market share is working - way to go Apple!!

This computer makes no attempt to replace a PC user's PC. Instead it offers an opportunity to buy a computer that is perfect for everything that is annoying about PCs. This puts an end to the whole PC vs. Mac battle and allows a PC user to buy a Mac to Manage her/his media while keeping the PC for playing games and working with whatever proprietary software their work requires them to use. Even more importantly, ending the idea that macs and pcs are mutually exclusive allows a PC user to open his/her eyes to all the wonderful things that mac has to offer. Once they try a mac and see how great OS X is then I think they will slowly be converted away from dealing with their Windows boxes.

 

[Agathon]

I was thinking about this. What struck me most about the mac mini was its packaging. The box that Jobs showed off is not much bigger than most things you'd get from a nice gift shop. I've seen women carrying perfume boxes that are bigger.

People tend to associate the significance of a purchase not only with price, but also with the size of the item. Psychologically speaking, a mac mini appears less of a major purchase than an equivalently priced Gateway with its titanic cow-splotched box. Hell, the mac mini doesn't cost much more than a nice ipod. If people are prepared to impulse buy an ipod (and I have seen this happen, it is amazing) in part because they can just stick it in their bag and carry it away with little effort (rather than lugging an enormous computer box to their car), I can see the same thing happening with the mac mini.

It doesn't look like a fully featured computer, but like a small appliance. I imagine that Apple is betting on people being pleasantly surprised once they see how powerful it is.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I was thinking about this. What struck me most about the mac mini was its packaging. The box that Jobs showed off is not much bigger than most things you'd get from a nice gift shop. I've seen women carrying perfume boxes that are bigger.

Actually the box isn't much bigger then an iPod box!

People tend to associate the significance of a purchase not only with price, but also with the size of the item. Psychologically speaking, a mac mini appears less of a major purchase than an equivalently priced Gateway with its titanic cow-splotched box.

I wouldn't say that. We aren't talking SUVs here. In tech there is a trend that smaller is better. (Well at least in the realm of reason.) Small = High tech = cool. When I whip out my IBM T31 and show people the size they are all oooo its soo small and lite. Ditto with my 60GB iPod. When I tell people that it holds 60GB there is that wow factor. I think since the mini is going to be able to fit in the corner of your desk and do everything that big junker of a desktop can do short of anything graphic intensive, its going to hit home how cool this device is going to be. Now all someone needs to do is slap some velcro onto the back of a flat screen and put the mini on there and you will have a poor man’s all in one iMac

 

[FoxyKaye]

Just a query:

Mac mini has 2 Usb Ports
Most PC users have a Ps2 keyboard

Therefore, most Pc users will have to buy either
1. an apple kboard or
2. a non apple usb keyboard and a usb hub, as a keyboard and a mouse, both usb, would use all the ports on the mini

This seems to be quite annoying as the latter would set you back say an easy Au$100

Thoughts?

Non-Apple Keyboards work fine on OSX - we've used the USB M$ contour keyboard on a number of iMacs at work. The key-mapping is almost the same, just substitute the "Windows flag" for the "Open-Apple/Command" key and you're in business.

As far as the PS2-connector on a lot of PC keyboards and mice, there are a number of PS2 to USB adapters on the market that are pretty cheap. OSX, in my experience, will still find the keyboard and mouse if it is connected that way.

I for one am glad there's no keyboard or mouse with the MacMini -- I haven't used a single button mouse since like 2000 on a Mac, and the anti-ergonomics of Mac keyboards hurt my fingers. Sometimes I wonder if Steve actually has *used* the stuff he designs -- hockey-puck mouse, for example...

 

[swissmann]

I'm not sure this comparison is really valid. Ok, I agree you get a better CPU, better GPU, bigger HDD, ... BUT a 20" cinema display can be "recycled" when you buy your next Mac, whether it's a PowerpC G5 or a next-gen Mac Mini. The iMac's display however... (plus the new iMac is b***t-ugly)

The display costs double what the mini costs and is the only reason why your Mac mini is as expensive as your iMac.
I think it's safe to say it is meant to be hooked up to a cheaper display, say a 350€ 17" TFT. or even your TV.

On a different note:
the design rocks. It's a cube, but stackable (think cluster ) and less plasticky...
The added software is a real plus too, I'm just wondering why they didn't throw in iWork (instead they give a test version of office ).

You have a very good point about the monitor moving with you to the next computer. That has a lot of unseen value in my opinion. As far as clustering is concearned would you connect it via Ethernet. The mini only has a 10/100BASE Ethernet. But again I don't know hardly anything about clustering.

 

[Yvan256]

My brother just ordered his last night, he ended up getting a pretty loaded 1.42 GHz. Apple charges a fortune for the 1GB memory upgrade, but they insisted that the memory is not user upgradable. I'm sceptical on that...

That's one of the two questions I have about the Mac mini. Is the memory really not user upgradable? I've read there's a single DIMM socket, but aside from that, would one void his warranty by replacing the installed DIMM?

I just checked a local store's prices, and a 512MB PC2700 Kingston ValueRAM costs 97$CAN (256MB costs 59$CAN). Now, the upgrade to 512MB on apple.ca is also 97$CAN, but you lose the installed 256MB (which I could sell back if I installed the 512MB DIMM myself). I wish that box had two DIMM slots...

To people that complain about the video card: Yes, it's a little weak, but it's better than the integrated shared memory crap a lot of Wintel boxes have.

That may be, but still, 32MB is a bit low. The Radeon 9200 is already weak, they should at least have made it 64MB VRAM. That's gonna be for the next rev, I guess (along with the FX 5200 Ultra).

If you want to do Halo, get an iMac or Powermac. This machine is not meant for Halo. But it will be great for iLife, surfing the net, watching DVDs AND playing Powermac G4-era games like RtCW etc.

Not to contradict you, but if someone wants to play Halo, he should get/keep a cheap PC. Or even better, an Xbox. Sure, there's a few games out there for the mac, but you can't beat a cheap PC or consoles for gaming, especially for exclusive titles such as Zelda and Metroid.

Expect Apple to update this machine with a 5200 at some point in the future, when the iMac G5 gets a better card. Halo-heads who want a Mac mini must wait till then.

It sucks that Apple puts such weak GPUs in their computers in the first place that the lower models get something that's almost 3 years old.

Anyway, the real question is: will the Radeon 9200/32MB allow for stuff like the water ripples effect with Tiger? What will Radeon users miss, besides the GPU helping the OS with graphics processing?

And last, the Mac mini will ship with iLife '05 (hurray) and Panther (doh). Should we wait until Tiger is out before purchasing? I mean, Panther currently costs 179$CAN (single user license), it would suck to buy a 629$CAN computer only to have to pay 179$CAN for an OS upgrade in less than 6 months... and I'm sure lots of people will also be angry at that fact.

Sure, not everyone will upgrade, but for people finally making the switch, and seeing an OS upgrade not even 6 months later won't show up as "Apple are cool" in their book. Especially not when the OS costs almost 30% of the cost of their computer.

Will Mac mini buyers get a free Tiger upgrade? (Steve said nothing of the sort, so I'm assuming the answer is no) How about a less expensive upgrade?

Yes, I've seen the "family pack" (and it ends up at about 55$CAN for each user, which is nice), but what are the requirements to purchase a family pack? Do the computers need to be on the same LAN or something? Because the maximum number of people I know in my town who have a Mac would be myself and my brother, if we both purchase a Mac mini...

Unless our local stores suddently start selling Apple computers (because of the Mac mini), there's pratically 0.0001% Mac users where I live.

 

[swissmann]

I'm not sure this comparison is really valid. Ok, I agree you get a better CPU, better GPU, bigger HDD, ... BUT a 20" cinema display can be "recycled" when you buy your next Mac, whether it's a PowerpC G5 or a next-gen Mac Mini. The iMac's display however... (plus the new iMac is b***t-ugly)

The display costs double what the mini costs and is the only reason why your Mac mini is as expensive as your iMac.
I think it's safe to say it is meant to be hooked up to a cheaper display, say a 350€ 17" TFT. or even your TV.

On a different note:
the design rocks. It's a cube, but stackable (think cluster ) and less plasticky...
The added software is a real plus too, I'm just wondering why they didn't throw in iWork (instead they give a test version of office ).

You have a very good point about the monitor moving with you to the next computer. That has a lot of unseen value in my opinion. As far as clustering is concearned would you connect it via Ethernet. The mini only has a 10/100BASE Ethernet. But again I don't know hardly anything about clustering.

 

[Yvan256]

If Apple had packaged this with a KB and mouse, we'd be reading complaints about why am I buying items that I already have? They should have left them out and sold it to me $50-$100 cheaper.

I had already mentionned such an idea in previous forums. Something along "I wish the damn keyboard and mouse were optionnal, I'll end up selling them on eBay anyway".

I, for one, am quite surprised (and glad!) that Apple went that route!

 

[notjustjay]

server

I'm seriously considering getting one of these as a basement file server for the house. Prior to this, what options would I have had? I can't afford to "waste" a whole laptop like that, plus I'd have reseverations about running an iBook or PowerBook 24/7 as a server, especially with the LCD closed (or leave it open, where it attracts dust..) The iMac is a no-go (don't want to spend all that money on an LCD I'll never touch) and the eMac is too bulky. The obvious choices for headless Mac servers -- the Xserve, and the PowerMac G5 towers -- are way beyond what I'm willing to spend.

In fact, prior to last month, I was figuring on going into the local refurbished PC place, picking up an old PC for about $200, installing Linux on it, and going with that.

But this, wow, this will even fit inside my structured-wiring closet. I'll be able to run an iTunes music server, web server, file server, X10 home automation controller, talking caller ID, and all the rest.

I'm excited.

edit:
Well, realistically, I'm going to wait a little bit first. When they ship Tiger with these babies, I'll buy one.

 

[Anticipat3]

This is a perfect box for Power Users to get to play with the Mac...

I have a lot of Computer-Loving friends that would love to play with OSX, but couldn't justify shelling out $1500+ for a G5 Powermac. iMac and eMac were poor options, because they didn't have room for them and/or didn't want to have extra monitors. Even a $800 eMac is a very high entry point for a spare machine to use to play with the OS, and as we all know, Macs on eBay are far from cheap, as well.

Now for just $499 they can pop this thing onto their KVMs and play with OSX. Beautiful!!!!

 

[fflipper]

Getting one

So i have read most of this thread and the one thing that pops out to me is that this box is absolutly perfect to replace my ailing HTPC windows box. I am so tired of having to deal with the virus and spyware issue. one of these and the m-audio transit things to hook up to my preamp plug in my fireware drives that house my movies and music and run it straight into the tv. Perfect new media computer. Now all i need is a good piece of software similar to cinemar's mainlobby suite, or myhdtv and we are really in business.

 

[swissmann]

Why add an Apple monitor to this? It would be far cheaper to buy a 19" LCD from elsewhere (if you need that size) that would be decent for half the price. That would reduce what you have above by $500 which would make for a decent tradeoff for price vs the imac G5. I realize that the Apple monitors have the cool factor going for them and have excellent features/specs, but do you really need them for an entry level computer? Like other people have said on here anyway, the people who are targeted by this computer likely have a monitor already and/or are interested in the low cost (and thus not the high priced Apple monitors). You could also reduce your price above by taking out the keyboard/mouse set. I know that I have both at home already. What do I need new ones for? Unless I spill coke on my keyboard again that is.

I took the cheaper monitor route and bought Dell monitors. They were much cheaper and when I put them next to an iMac G5 20" they really show how poor they are. Obviously you could get a Mac mini, cheap monitor, and cheap keyboard and mouse and only be out about $600 or $700 whereas the iMac would cost you about $2000. Yes it's an easy/cheap way to get a mac but for an additional $1,300 you are getting a lot more value per dollar because the increase is so much more. Mac Mini = great value and perfect for what it is intended for. iMac G5 also great value (a little more so in my opinion) and perfect for what it is intended for. I think Apple is winning with both computers for sure.

 

[Yvan256]

Its highly likely the Mac mini will be a flop. You can't judge initial fan reaction and come to the conclusion this thing will sell. You only need to look at the G4 Cube to see the same thing. Initial reaction for it was positively overwhelming, but it ended up not selling because of price.

For the mini, the opposite is true, the price is right, but the performance suffers. And as a result, I am certain, even with all the adulation it is receiving, the mini will flop magnificently.

Yeah, whatever.

Before the Mac mini, my only real choice was between the eMac or the 12" iBook. About the same specs as the Mac mini.

What did I lose with the new, cheaper, Mac mini choice, exactly?

My only complain is that I wish Tiger was ready and shipping with the Mac mini, I don't want to pay 180$CAN in less than 6 months to get Tiger, which means I'll be waiting to buy the Mac mini. It's gonna be on massive backorder anyway, so no big loss there.

 

[numediaman]

Hmm, how many Mac users will be upgrading from macs with ADB keyboards and mice? Are there ADB --> USB adapters.

The iMate from Griffin is an ADB > USB adapter. I looked into it, but decided it would be a waste. For one thing, the price is almost four times that of the PS/2 > USB adapter already mentioned -- and for another, buying a real good mouse and keyboard won't break the bank.

If you really need a free keyboard and mouse, buy from Mac Mall -- as someone already mentioned, this their one incentive right now. I'm sure they will consider other add-on incentives soon.

 

[Yvan256]

Incredible yeah, but is the performance enough to justify your friends switching? I will have to say no. Mac mini is a lame duck out of the starting gate, I'm afraid. Perhaps in 6 months when Apple intros the same computer with a G5 and 2 RAM slots will your friends consider actually opening their wallets.

If you think everyone is running Athlon systems, maybe. But the reality is, a lot of people still are running >1GHz Celeron systems, and a lot of those are Windows 98. The Mac mini will obliterate those old systems, which could account for at least 50% of the switchers market. The other 50% will just be glad to be rid of Windows and its problems.

As for the next rev. of the Mac mini, bring it on. Current owners of the Mac mini will simply upgrade, selling their previous Mac mini to others, hence making new switchers.

 

[ccrandall77]

Disappointing

I was really hoping this would be more of a media center PC. But at this price, and with the price to upgrade it with airport, extra memory, etc., it's really not a very good deal.

I've been comparing this to a refurbished iMac (1.8GHz/SuperDrive/17") and the iMac is BY FAR a much better deal. A refurbished, mid-range iMac-G5 is $1299. For $45, YOU can upgrade the memory to 768MB. With the Mac mini, the higher-end unit with a factory 512MB upgrade, and superdrive is going to run almost $800, now add speakers, a monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc.. And the iMac also already has a nice widescreen 17" LCD, is going to perform more than 2x as fast as the mini, etc.

While I think the Mac mini will still sell well, because a lot of Mac fans are going to buy this for a second machine, this isn't going to be a cross-over success. A lot of people on here think it's going to appeal to people with older Win9x machines and it's just not going to happen because....

1.) Most of those older machines won't have USB keybd/mice, and they'll have an older CRT

2.) The Dell special for $499 is going to be more expandable, faster, and will come with a new LCD, keyboard, mouse, AND PRINTER.

3.) This just isn't inticing enough to get someone off of the old familiar Windows platform and on to something completely different... esp, if they don't bother to advertise this machine like they don't do with the rest of their machines.

This is just a niche machine for Mac fans and for a few others that just happen to have the rest of the components to make this a complete system and are willing to try something new... and that's not going to be too many people.
Now, if they'd lowered the price a little more (per Cringley's predictions) or made this machine with better specs (better graphics card, faster CPU, second memory slot that user upgradable, then I think it would sell better.

 

[ccrandall77]

Server Busy?

"The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later."

I keep getting this message when I try to post or view. Are they running this site on a Mac mini?