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Mac Mini Released

notjustjay said:
You know, I don't really understand all these people with their "I can find a PC for cheaper than $499" posts.
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Then you're having trouble reading the posts in here (along with a few other people). One person posted a link to a $650 crap machine and compared that to the Mac mini. I pointed out that it's not a valid comparison because for $350, you could get a decent machine with a monitor, keyboard, and mouse included. Then I when on to say that I think the Mac mini will still compare well when people have a chance to use one at an Apple Store or CompUSA, etc.

And these aren't one day sales either. The day after I received the email and posted here, that same Dell offer was run several times on primetime television and prominently on the msn.com home page. Millions and millions of people have seen that offer now. $350 for a decent computer with a monitor, etc. included.

I don't think the Mac mini is really going to capture the budget computer buyer. PC's are going to continue to start at lower price points. For that reason, the Mac mini might miss out on first-time computer buyers. But... the Mac mini is priced low enough to entice people that have thought about buying a Mac in the past but didn't want to shell out an extra $700-1000 for an Apple monitor on top of the premium for the computer itself. Really we're talking about a computer that is priced to appeal to people that have a mid-range PC. There the specs are going to be slower than a PC, but people are going to fall in love with the OS and the software and buy one, or they're going to not like it and stay with a PC.

Mostly, I just have a pet peeve against the argument that the Mac mini is targeted at the low end of the market. It's not.

[Edited: I meant to say Mac mini throughout]
 
Weldon, I don't disagree with anything you're saying, although I can't tell from context whether you really meant to say "Mac mini" in your references to the iMac. I'll keep it at face value and assume you really did mean iMac.

I just think that regardless of whether you can get a Dell deal for $350 monitor included, the Mac mini still holds its own as a low-cost (if not low-end) Apple Macintosh computer system, with a superior software bundle, and that trying to compare it with that Dell or any other PC is, well, comparing apples to oranges.

I'm just saying it's pretty shallow to compare the Mini (or iMac, or whatever) to PC's based on price alone, and it's even dubious to compare it based on featuresets, because given the different processor architectures and different operating systems and software, they are fundamentally different machines.
 
notjustjay said:
Weldon, I don't disagree with anything you're saying, although I can't tell from context whether you really meant to say "Mac mini" in your references to the iMac. I'll keep it at face value and assume you really did mean iMac.

I just think that regardless of whether you can get a Dell deal for $350 monitor included, the Mac mini still holds its own as a low-cost (if not low-end) Apple Macintosh computer system, with a superior software bundle, and that trying to compare it with that Dell or any other PC is, well, comparing apples to oranges.

I'm just saying it's pretty shallow to compare the Mini (or iMac, or whatever) to PC's based on price alone, and it's even dubious to compare it based on featuresets, because given the different processor architectures and different operating systems and software, they are fundamentally different machines.
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Amen. Someone nail this thread's coffin shut!
 
Fan Noise

When comparing the Mini to a PC, you should add $150+ to the price of the PC to bring the noise output down to 20ish db.
 
I own a Dell Dimension 2350 Desktop, a Dell Inspiron 1150 Notebook, a Apple ibook and I just ordered the Mac Mini two weeks ago.

With that being said, I think looking at what you get on the hardware side is equal. Both have pros and cons.

On the software side, there is no comparing Windows XP to Mac Panther.

Once you set up your basic Dell PC, your left with the feeling, Oh I need to buy this or that. With Panter, everything is there, itunes and imove are state of the art, iworks is pretty good, especially since its basically free. You don't get that with a basic Dell system.

Oh and don't forget you have to have Norton Utilities for those system crashes that happen on the Microsoft operating system.

All in all, I'll take an Apple over a PC compatable any day of the week.

Pat
 
I picked up a Mini at my local Apple Store on Saturday. Excellent little machine and I really wanted a Mac at work. Strange issue I'm having with it, however, and I've posted this question to quite a few forums (include Apple's) is the keyboard I chose to use with it has no Windows or Command Key on it. Its an old IBM PS/2 clicky keyboard. I can find no documentation or webpage that tells me what I can use on this keyboard as a Command Key equivalent. I got one response on the Apple website saying it was the OSes job to read the keyboard but there isn't a "Use these keys for command" option in the System Preferences (that I've found). A alternate website said "Alt + Spacebar" was it but that doesn't function either. Any ideas, or am I just hosed on this one and have to get a newer keyboard?
 
Break down and fork out the $29 for a apple keyboard. plus its got a extra usb port on it. In fact i ordered my mini with the keyboard and mouse and Apple had them delivered a couple of days ago. Anything Apple just screams quality compared to the evil side doesnt it.
 
I'm obviously having a lot of trouble explaining myself to notjustjay, platform, neonart and others. Let me try to summarize to make my argument more clear. That way people can stop trying to reply to me, arguing about things that I am not saying...

1) There are really cheap PC's out there. They offer a decent value and include many options like software for DVD playback, antivirus, photos, home movies, and MP3's even at low price points. There is a segment that will buy purely on price and that segment is better served by the PC makers. The Mac mini isn't going to be successful if they try to focus on that market. They can't out-Dell Dell.

2) The Mac mini represents a great value that people will realize when they have a chance to use one and see how great the OS and included software really is. In order to capture customers that are currently using Windows XP, I think the Mac mini is going to most appeal to mid-range computer users that would normally spend $500-1000 to upgrade their computer every few years. They aren't overly concerned about having the latest and fastest, but are willing to spend a little to get something they like. They might be more focused on computer use and spend more time really using the computer as a productivity tool and an entertainment device. So here I see the Mac mini really competing with computers that are priced at $800-1000 or so. I would say that this is the middle of the market.

3) In summary, within the context of "switchers" I think the Mac mini is going to appeal to savvy computer users that are in the middle of the market and want to use their computer for home productivity, media and entertainment. The Mac mini really isn't appropriate for the low-end of the market that is primarily concerned about finding the lowest price. The real innovation isn't a low-cost Mac (because monitor and keyboard aren't included) but rather a lower price-point and a lower point-of-entry for switchers (because they can bring display and keyboard with them).

If it's still not clear, I think the Mac mini is great. I love it and would like to buy one. It's perfect for me and my family. I love the OS and the software. However, there is a set of consumers that doesn't care about those things and will gravitate to some really great deals from Dell and others that offers a decent computer at a much lower price point than Apple has with the Mac mini.
 
weldon said:
I'm obviously having a lot of trouble explaining myself to notjustjay, platform, neonart and others.
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Weldon, I don't know why you think you need to explain yourself to me, or why you think we disagree somehow. I agree with everything you've said. I don't think I've said anything differently.

We see the same way on this one. :)
 
jameskk said:
I got shipping confirmation on my Mini with BT and Superdrive last night.. coming direct from China or somewhere... est delivery Jan. 2!!!
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When did you order?
 
BowaSpam said:
When did you order?
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I ordered the day of the Keynote... also received the following email today:

To Our Valued Apple Customer:


* Thank you for your recent order!

* Apple is very excited about the popularity of the new Mac mini and we want
* every customer who ordered one to be absolutely satisfied.

* We want to clarify some confusion regarding the speed of the SuperDrive that
* comes with your computer. For a short time, the Apple Store online incorrectly
* referenced a SuperDrive burning speed of 8x. The actual recording speed is up
* to 4x for supported DVD recordable media on Mac mini. The drive writes to CD-R
* at 16x and CD-RW at 8x.

* Please contact us at the number below if you have any questions or concerns:

* 1-800-676-2775 Monday thru Friday 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. central time and Saturday
* and Sunday 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. central time.

* If, as a result of this information, you wish to cancel or return your order,
* please let our representative know when you call.

* We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

* Apple Customer Support
 
Potential Switcher here.

I have always used PCs for my computing needs. But when I bought a 3G iPod, I got interested in Macs (b/c I love my iPod). I'm seriously considering a mac mini 1.25ghz / 512 ram. My current PC is pretty powerful, so things like gaming, photoshop, and movie encoding I can do on that. And I already have mouse/monitor/keyboard so thats not an issue if I buy a mini.

The mini would just be a way for me to try out OSX I guess. I am concerned on a few things that may leave me dissatisifed with the mini and OSX, what do you guys think about the following points:

1. The old ATI video chipset, and the fact that it has only 32mb of ram. Isn't this almost inadequate for OSX? I understand that the GUI has a lot of animations, and animations being choppy or slow would really bother me. I would want the gui to look and feel very smooth. I know gaming is out of the question, because most current games require 128mb vid ram to run decent frame rates. So I won't be gaming.

2. I really dont want to put a $200 stick of 1gb ram in this thing because I'm not willing to spend that much on the mini. Just wondering if 512mb is enough. I will probably be running itunes/web browser/email/and maybe a video here and there. Nothing too intensive but I hear osx is a ram hog. And I know 256mb is not enough, so I wouldn't consider buying it with just that.

3. The HDD is a low speed laptop drive, which I feel is the biggest flaw of the mini. A slight increase in size to accomidate a 7200rpm 3.5" drive would have been nice. This is another concern because I just feel like I'll get this thing, become frustrated when install times and file transfer times take forever. I am accustomed to very fast computing so I just feel like I may be dissappointed and decide not to "switch" for good.

I realize the mini is not a super powerful machine, and I wouldnt expect it to be for such a low price. I just want to make sure, before Apple gets my $500+, that I will be happy with what I am buying.

So, in summary of all the above, does the mini accurately represent the world of Apple computing? I am definately a power user on a PC, so I am very aware of the things in the mini that could lead me to be dissatisfied. But like I said, Ill be nice and not run any excessivly intensive programs, such as photoshop, games, and encoding. Thanks for any advice or comments you can give. :cool:
 
damax452 said:
I have always used PCs for my computing needs. But when I bought a 3G iPod, I got interested in Macs (b/c I love my iPod). I'm seriously considering a mac mini 1.25ghz / 512 ram. My current PC is pretty powerful, so things like gaming, photoshop, and movie encoding I can do on that. And I already have mouse/monitor/keyboard so thats not an issue if I buy a mini.

The mini would just be a way for me to try out OSX I guess. I am concerned on a few things that may leave me dissatisifed with the mini and OSX, what do you guys think about the following points:

1. The old ATI video chipset, and the fact that it has only 32mb of ram. Isn't this almost inadequate for OSX? I understand that the GUI has a lot of animations, and animations being choppy or slow would really bother me. I would want the gui to look and feel very smooth. I know gaming is out of the question, because most current games require 128mb vid ram to run decent frame rates. So I won't be gaming.

2. I really dont want to put a $200 stick of 1gb ram in this thing because I'm not willing to spend that much on the mini. Just wondering if 512mb is enough. I will probably be running itunes/web browser/email/and maybe a video here and there. Nothing too intensive but I hear osx is a ram hog. And I know 256mb is not enough, so I wouldn't consider buying it with just that.

3. The HDD is a low speed laptop drive, which I feel is the biggest flaw of the mini. A slight increase in size to accomidate a 7200rpm 3.5" drive would have been nice. This is another concern because I just feel like I'll get this thing, become frustrated when install times and file transfer times take forever. I am accustomed to very fast computing so I just feel like I may be dissappointed and decide not to "switch" for good.

I realize the mini is not a super powerful machine, and I wouldnt expect it to be for such a low price. I just want to make sure, before Apple gets my $500+, that I will be happy with what I am buying.

So, in summary of all the above, does the mini accurately represent the world of Apple computing? I am definately a power user on a PC, so I am very aware of the things in the mini that could lead me to be dissatisfied. But like I said, Ill be nice and not run any excessivly intensive programs, such as photoshop, games, and encoding. Thanks for any advice or comments you can give. :cool:
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I think you should purchase a stock mini $499 or $599 and see what you think.. you can always add 512MB stick later on... I am using a $499 stock mini right now (bought it to hold me over until my superdrive model shipped)... and honestly the 256MB will do all that you need for now. Currently, I have 5 browser windows open, 1 file downloading, email going, and I am playing a Fleetwood Mac DVD in a Window and not a hint of a slowdown! Give it a try, you'll be surprised!

Also, I am running this on an Apple 20" Cinema Display at 1680x1050 full color... the graphics are awesome for a 32MB card!
 
damax452 said:
1. The old ATI video chipset, and the fact that it has only 32mb of ram. Isn't this almost inadequate for OSX?
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No. Choppiness occurs on my old 8 meg video card. Not remotely on the 32 meg one I'm using in this iBook.

I know gaming is out of the question, because most current games require 128mb vid ram to run decent frame rates.
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You know wrong. That 32-meg VRAM iBook? I play Halo and UT2k4 on it.

2. I really dont want to put a $200 stick of 1gb ram in this thing because I'm not willing to spend that much on the mini. Just wondering if 512mb is enough.
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Yes.

I will probably be running itunes/web browser/email/and maybe a video here and there. Nothing too intensive but I hear osx is a ram hog. And I know 256mb is not enough, so I wouldn't consider buying it with just that.
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For the applications you mention, you know wrong again. I'd recommend 512 anyway, but there's no reason what you describe (unless by "maybe a video here and there" you mean "maybe making a video here and there") would be intolerable on 256.

Edit: one caveat. eBay and Safari do not play nice together, at least not on my machine. Browsing around eBay can make Safari's memory usage spike to ~180 megabytes for no apparent reason. I submitted a bug report, but if you're a big eBayer, go with 512 at minimum.

3. The HDD is a low speed laptop drive, which I feel is the biggest flaw of the mini. A slight increase in size to accomidate a 7200rpm 3.5" drive would have been nice. This is another concern because I just feel like I'll get this thing, become frustrated when install times and file transfer times take forever. I am accustomed to very fast computing so I just feel like I may be dissappointed and decide not to "switch" for good.
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Filesharing is a nonissue, as the drive ought to saturate a 100baseT connection with ease. Installs should be a nonissue as well unless you decide your intended use has changed and you want UT2k4 and Final Cut Pro on there, but even then they shouldn't be painful (and would be one-time issues).

So, in summary of all the above, does the mini accurately represent the world of Apple computing? I am definately a power user on a PC, so I am very aware of the things in the mini that could lead me to be dissatisfied. But like I said, Ill be nice and not run any excessivly intensive programs, such as photoshop, games, and encoding. Thanks for any advice or comments you can give. :cool:
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The Mac Mini is specced like an iBook from about six months ago. While obviously today's stuff is more powerful, Apple has not had a leap such that the Apple experience is clearly different from what it was. Basically, it's the world of Apple computing but a little less so.

In other words, if you go into it expecting a lot of the problems you've outlined, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

~J
 
damax452 said:
1. The old ATI video chipset, and the fact that it has only 32mb of ram. Isn't this almost inadequate for OSX? I understand that the GUI has a lot of animations, and animations being choppy or slow would really bother me. I would want the gui to look and feel very smooth. I know gaming is out of the question, because most current games require 128mb vid ram to run decent frame rates. So I won't be gaming.
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dont let anyone fool you. 256MB is not enough ram unless you want to get frustrated with the spinning beach ball of death (sort of like an icon representing the computer is processing...please wait). you will need at least 512MB. thats what i have on my 667MHZ tibook and basic internet, email, itunes....even some photoshop and definetly web graphics is jusst fine. however window resizing will still be slow but its something that keeps getting better with OSX updates. other than that all animations are smooth.

512 MB will be fine. but again...just so you know what to expect, window resizing WILL be a bit choppy.
 
I take it you haven't actually used a system with 256 megs for the stated purposes anytime recently. I agree that 512 is better, especially since no matter how much the original poster says he'll just be doing web browsing, music, and movies he'll probably end up doing more, but don't try to pretend that 256 isn't perfectly adequate for something that low-impact.

~J
 
Kagetenshi said:
I take it you haven't actually used a system with 256 megs for the stated purposes anytime recently. I agree that 512 is better, especially since no matter how much the original poster says he'll just be doing web browsing, music, and movies he'll probably end up doing more, but don't try to pretend that 256 isn't perfectly adequate for something that low-impact.

~J
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listen here mister, if you have a problem, or simply disagree with what i posted you dont need to make assumptions or declare that i am making things up.

my girl just got an imac with 256MB of ram and we were both frustrated with the spinning beach ball of death. ive used macs all my life and dont want to ever have to use a PC so dont worry im not bashing a mac if thats what your assuming. take it easy and allow others their opinion with out being condescending or rude.


and if you still dont think my opinion is valid maybe you should read apples own recommendations. 256MB is MINIMUM for the OS ALONE. what does that tell you? here i'll spell it out for you...to run other apps especially at the same time, it is recommended that one buys more.
 
And how about I spell out for you that within the past two weeks I have used iTunes, Microsoft Office, and Mac OS X on the same machine at the same time without any meaningful beachballing?

I really don't think you grasp how low the requirements of this basic a level of functionality are. Right now the total real memory being used by processes important to a basic user for me is about 280 megs, and that's with five applications open (including the Finder, not including the RAM used by Activity Monitor or some background tasks that aren't part of a default or typical install). That small an overrun can easily be paged, and closing any two of those applications will drop it down to under 256 for no paging whatsoever.

And yes, before you ask, I am including root processes and not just user processes.

~J
 
weldon

im not going to continue arguing with this guy. for some reason i seemed to offend him with my opinion about the minimum requirements for OSX regarding ram.

you stated specifically that you didnt want to put up with a choppy or slow GUI. well with 256 that is what you will get occasionally. hell i get that with 512 in my laptop. actually the systems (dual G4s with 1gig of ram) will occasionally slow down during OS operations. anyway, you MUST :p get at least 512 :p of ram since you clearly stated that slow GUIs arent your type of thing ;) i know OTHERS are willing to put up with such trash :eek: but being a sophisticated computer user, as im sure YOU are, shouldn't have to deal with such incompetence :cool:

dont be sold on 256. just go and read it from apple first hand so i dont get bashed for simply stating that 256MB will cause slow performance. thats why my girl went and bought more ram. i guess others will disagree, some will even be rude and act as though you shouldnt have your own opinion but just shut them out.

i got a suggestion for you. go to an apple store and try one. its funny cause when the imac came out people were saying how slow the OS felt and most every competent macrumors member explained extensively how 256 is minimum and the general suggestion was to wait to judge the OS until they try a system with 512 and above.


ok i had my fun with this silliness :D
 
weldon said:
I'm obviously having a lot of trouble explaining myself....
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I think you're correct on all counts - but what it comes down to is marketing. I really have never understood why apple doesnt do more advertising. look at the phenomenal success of the ipod - a lot of that comes from brand awareness, and brand awareness comes from saturating the marketplace with ads. apple COULD position themselves in the segment that is concerned primarily with the bottom line dollar figure with some decent advertising. there are just so many people out there who WOULD by the dell for $350 because they dont know any better. marketing is how companies educate clients (or propagandize, depending on your perspective) about their products, and I just cant figure out why apple doesnt get this for it's computer division.
 
weldon said:
I'm obviously having a lot of trouble explaining myself to notjustjay, platform, neonart and others. Let me try to summarize to make my argument more clear. That way people can stop trying to reply to me, arguing about things that I am not saying...
Click to expand...

Got it!

We were on the same page, just different paragraphs.

All I was saying is that to a savvy, well educated consumer, the price is fair for what you get compared to cheap-as-free computers.

But I understand your point now. There are always going to be those REALLY cheap people who care only about price. And that's just dandy! Heck, someone has to receive all them viruses!
 
beatle888 said:
i guess others will disagree, some will even be rude and act as though you shouldnt have your own opinion but just shut them out.
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When dealing with facts (like the amount of RAM the system is taking up running certain combinations of programs that are above and beyond the stated application of the computer), no, you shouldn't have your own opinion. Neither of us should have an opinion, because it's not a matter of opinion.

But as previously mentioned, I still highly recommend 512. Even if the original purpose is served by 256, the nice thing about Turing-complete machines is that you can find new uses for them.

~J
 
Here is what my machine wants to use, given the option for even more. I'm running things how I normally do. iTunes playing, Safari with multiple windows/multiple tabs. Mail, calculator, ect. About 340MB! (Deduct about 19MB for Activity viewer)

I WOULD NEVER RUN OSX ON 256MB.

The hard drive is the slowest form of memory on a computer. The second you need to page out, your slowing things down.

BTW, what the heck is WindowServer and why does it use 70MB of RAM?
 

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