Mac Mini vs Mac Pro?

[N9JIG]

I recently replaced my Late 2014 iMac 5K with a fully tricked out 2018 Mac Mini. I had been waiting for the 2019 version of the Mac Pro but started having issues with the iMac 5K so bit the bullet and sprung for a new Mini instead.

Coincidentally two weeks before that I also bought a Hades Canyon NUC and installed 16GB of RAM and a 1TB NVME SSD, then installed Windows 10 Pro. While intended for a different purpose it really is a worthy competitor to the Mac Mini and has pretty similar processor specs etc. The form factors are pretty similar size wise but the NUC has more ports.

This weekend I was thinking that if I had an issue with my Mac Mini (my daily driver for my work at home job) I could use the NUC so I set it up to do so. I installed Opera, Chrome and Firefox since I use different browsers for different tasks as well as our phone system software (Windows only, I use Parallels on the Mac to run this). Everything seemed to work just fine. It turns out that I could just pretty much unplug the Mac Mini and plug most of the cables directly into the NUC save for the power cord and the backup hard drive. I use 3 identical monitors so 2 use DP-TB cables and the third a straight HDMI on both computers. All my devices (web cam, studio mic, iPhone and Watch cables and UPS monitor) all just plug right into either computer via a powered hub. The only thing I would not share would be the external hard drive as I use it as a TimeMachine.

While I am a diehard Mac guy and much prefer the Mac platform over Windows, Windows 10 has impressed me greatly with its ease of use and stability. It is much better than its predecessors and I have not had any issue with it other than a few minor annoyances. I would survive nicely with it if needed. The Mac Migration utility is fantastic however.

There are a few things that I prefer from each platform. I love the fact that the NUC comes with a bracket to allow one to mount it to the back of a monitor's VESA mount, effectively making it an all-in-one like the iMac and that it is easily set up and upgradable. I hate to say it (and remember this is coming from an over 30 year Mac guy...) but Windows 10 was easier to install from a thumb drive to a virgin SSD than installing MacOS. I still prefer the look and feel of a Mac and the hardware that Apple provides. I could go out and buy a VESA bracket for the Mac Mini if needed but since i use monitor arms it really isn't needed.

I am not a big Photo or Video editor, most of my work is pretty much platform agnostic (browser based stuff for work as well as MS Word, Filemaker and Acrobat) so I could easily switch OS's at whim. This weekend's trial proved that I could use either Windows or Mac and stay productive. I plan on staying with the Mac and might still end up with a Mac Pro if the new one blows me away but at least I know I have plenty of options.

 

[F-Train]

There are now 55 posts in this thread. By a quick count, 41 of them, including this one, have nothing to do with the substantive questions that were raised in the first post. These were:

I use Photoshop in a heavy way. Files are between 4GB and 20GB.

I’m worndering if a 2018 Mac Mini i7 6 core 3.2GHz, 64GB ram 1TB ssd would be any better [than my 2010 and 2013 Mac Pros]?

Photoshop doesn’t really make use of GPU but the internal graphics on the Mini seems to be pretty rubbish. Will it be good enough?

A large number of posts completely ignore the statement by the person who started this thread, way back in post #32, that he has no interest in using Windows and essentially asking people to stop hijacking the discussion.

The latest is a post, just above, that runs no less than six paragraphs, which presumably took a fair bit of time to write, and that could have been written by someone who has never even read the post that started this thread.

Because this thread has been hijacked quite enough, notwithstanding the fact that both the person who started it, and a few of the people who are following it, are interested in responses to the actual questions, I'll pass on asking for a response to this simple question, and suggest that people might just think a bit about it: Why?

 

[tpivette89]

Because the people who have derailed this thread into what it is now have no interest in actually answering the question, but instead like to start conflict and see the pot stirred. Most people who have responded, however, have probably just looked at the last few posts and responded due to the recent conversations.

To stay on topic, here's my take on the Mini vs 6,1 Mac Pro:

CPU: Mini will have better single-core performance, but the Mac Pro will have better multi-core performance if equipped with a 10 or 12 core CPU. Not to mention Xeon processors are more geared to continuous use vs the i7 in the Mini.
GPU: out of the box, the Mac Pro has the advantage. However, with an eGPU attached, in either case, the Mini pulls ahead due to it's TB3 interface vs the Pro's TB2
RAM: Mac Pro can utilize 128GB, but at a 1866mhz speed. The Mini can use 64GB but at a faster 2666mhz speed
Storage: Mac Pro is upgradeable, but the Mini's internal storage performance will be quicker. If going external... again, the Mini's TB3 will outperform the Mac Pro's TB2.

As far as actual comparison specs (real world usage in Photoshop) I cannot provide this information, as I only own a 2018 Mini.

 

[N9JIG]

The point of my diatribe was that I too was considering a Mac Pro, pending release of confirmed info on what we will see with the new one but then I couldn't wait. As others had also, I did branch off into other things hoping that insights into various alternatives would be useful. Apparently you did not think it was.

As for the original topic, until we know more about the supposedly upcoming Mac Pro 2019(?) the only question that really can be answered is whether the Mac Mini is sufficient for his needs. That question needs to be answered by the OP, hopefully some of the free-ranging discussion will help.

 

[F-Train]

To stay on topic, here's my take on the Mini vs 6,1 Mac Pro:

CPU: Mini will have better single-core performance, but the Mac Pro will have better multi-core performance if equipped with a 10 or 12 core CPU. Not to mention Xeon processors are more geared to continuous use vs the i7 in the Mini.
GPU: out of the box, the Mac Pro has the advantage. However, with an eGPU attached, in either case, the Mini pulls ahead due to it's TB3 interface vs the Pro's TB2
RAM: Mac Pro can utilize 128GB, but at a 1866mhz speed. The Mini can use 64GB but at a faster 2666mhz speed
Storage: Mac Pro is upgradeable, but the Mini's internal storage performance will be quicker. If going external... again, the Mini's TB3 will outperform the Mac Pro's TB2.

As far as actual comparison specs (real world usage in Photoshop) I cannot provide this information, as I only own a 2018 Mini.

I think that this is a good analysis. I continue to believe, as I suggested in post #34, that @pierre1610 should get advice on the graphics card issue from people who have hands-on experience working with Photoshop files that are as large as 30GB (the number that he uses in post #32). But as you say, an external card can address that.

 

[pierre1610]

@F-Train @tpivette89 thatsfor your help getting the thread back on track. I'd all but abondoned it.

I may just buy a 2018 mini and try it for 14 days. Anyone know what the deal is with replacing the RAM and the 14 day return policy? I need 64GB but don't want to pay applueprice for that.

 

[russell_314]

@F-Train @tpivette89 thatsfor your help getting the thread back on track. I'd all but abondoned it.

I may just buy a 2018 mini and try it for 14 days. Anyone know what the deal is with replacing the RAM and the 14 day return policy? I need 64GB but don't want to pay applueprice for that.

You would have to replace the factory RAM then reinstall it before returning. I'm sure they wouldn't know unless you damaged something. I thought it was a bit tricky and I was nervous just doing it once. If my return required me to replace the RAM twice I would be worried.

 

[The_Interloper]

It might be better to just run it with the stock RAM during the 14-day return period to see how you get on with it, safe in the knowledge more RAM will improve performance. If you decide to keep it, then perform the upgrade.

 

[shaunp]

Windows 10 was written by engineers, with not much user input. That means that lots of valuable features a hidden away in dialogs that don't seem to fit what you want to do.
Took me a couple hours yesterday to find that drive sharing over Ethernet is hidden in a right-click contextual menu that pops up when you select a drive. There's lots of stuff like this. Makes me think spaghetti code was the design paradigm followed during implementation. Why am I still using a Windows 8 utility to back up my stuff?
Once you find the things you need, Windows 10 is great; at least until you realize that there some other setting you need to change. Mac is considerably neater about this stuff, although they've been slipping on their adherence to "Human Interface Guidelines" these last several OS updates.

I agree it can be confusing to find things in Windows 10 at first - MS have a habit of oversimplifying the interface yet at the same time make it harder to use because they have hidden stuff. That said, once you have found your way around it generally just works and most people tend to do the same tasks over and over so the learning curve isn't that steep.

None of this would be required however if Apple actually paid attention to the Mac and kept it up to date and relevant.
[doublepost=1552306052][/doublepost]

I see you defending and recommending Microsoft/Windows on this, which is a Mac forum. It's quite curious. That's the last thing I'll say about it. Have a good day.

It was about lack of performance hardware, and suggesting perhaps a PC would be a better alternative for the OP's needs - Lightroom and Photoshop - given the lack of development on the Mac.

 

[pl1984]

There are now 55 posts in this thread. By a quick count, 41 of them, including this one, have nothing to do with the substantive questions that were raised in the first post. These were:



A large number of posts completely ignore the statement by the person who started this thread, way back in post #32, that he has no interest in using Windows and essentially asking people to stop hijacking the discussion.

The latest is a post, just above, that runs no less than six paragraphs, which presumably took a fair bit of time to write, and that could have been written by someone who has never even read the post that started this thread.

Because this thread has been hijacked quite enough, notwithstanding the fact that both the person who started it, and a few of the people who are following it, are interested in responses to the actual questions, I'll pass on asking for a response to this simple question, and suggest that people might just think a bit about it: Why?

The question was asked and the answer given:

OP has no alternative but to buy a top processor spec'd Mini​

There's nothing left to discuss regarding the original question so why complain (and contribute) about off topic posts?
[doublepost=1552306700][/doublepost]

@F-Train @tpivette89 thatsfor your help getting the thread back on track. I'd all but abondoned it.

I may just buy a 2018 mini and try it for 14 days. Anyone know what the deal is with replacing the RAM and the 14 day return policy? I need 64GB but don't want to pay applueprice for that.

I don't see that you have any choice but to buy a Mini:

• You need a new computer
• You cannot wait for a new model
• You are currently using the high end Macintosh which, according to bullet one, is insufficient and needs to be replaced
• You are not interested in a headless system (correct me if I'm wrong, this was an inference of mine since you are posting in the Mini forum)
• You want to remain on the macOS platform

Given the above you have no other options. The Mini is the only system which meets those criteria.
[doublepost=1552307016][/doublepost]

I agree it can be confusing to find things in Windows 10 at first - MS have a habit of oversimplifying the interface yet at the same time make it harder to use because they have hidden stuff. That said, once you have found your way around it generally just works and most people tend to do the same tasks over and over so the learning curve isn't that steep.

None of this would be required however if Apple actually paid attention to the Mac and kept it up to date and relevant.

My point exactly. I didn't recommend the OP investigate alternative platforms because I have a particular fondness for a particular platform (or hate for Apple). I did it because Apple has gaping hole in their product line (if I am generous and count the Mac Pro as high end these days).

 

[russell_314]

It might be better to just run it with the stock RAM during the 14-day return period to see how you get on with it, safe in the knowledge more RAM will improve performance. If you decide to keep it, then perform the upgrade.

That's probably the best advice!

 

[Reality4711]

For The OP.

Try a Mac mini in the configuration that will hurt the least financially but give a good and face to face indication to you of it's performance.
If it is OK? My suggestion is 6core i7 + 1TB storage. Keep the ram low (unless you can afford it of course).
Run some stuff that you are used to using with a previously worked project (s) and decide for yourself if this machine is what you want it to be (or close-reference ram).
Make a mature guess (most of us do) from what you learn whether or not to confirm the purchase, upgrade the ram (carefully & your choice again). Move on.
Or; on completing your tests return the Mac mini within the appropriate period unharmed and I will buy it off the refurb list.
Rather than try and second guess Apple, wait, like we who want to stay withem do and when new stuff comes out repeat the test yourself.
Mature, immature, trolling, whatever in the end only you can decide.
It must be wonderful to able to work with all the different platforms mentioned on this thread but I cannot and therefor stick as best I can with what I KNOW works for me.
As an aside - my very old base 'trashcan' has been sitting on my desk for close to six years now and each of the pros I have owned (laptops included) have all done a minimum of four years before the dreaded software improvement (Adobe etc.) forced my hand. I retrospect I could still be churning out my 50Mb images on a G5 but where would the fun of discovery been then?
Five PC manufacturers passed through my office before the 12"mbp..Just a memory
[doublepost=1552309820][/doublepost]

That's probably the best advice!

They got there before me - but mine was longest

 

[opeter]

We have several PCs and they run Photoshop slower than a 10 year old Mac Pro. Must be windows

The you are doing something wrong.

I have here a PC with AMD Ryzen 2600 (6 real core/12 threads) and NVMe SSD and the PC is definitely faster in many operations in comparison to my Mac mini i3 (4 real cores).

 

[eoren1]

@F-Train @tpivette89 thatsfor your help getting the thread back on track. I'd all but abondoned it.

I may just buy a 2018 mini and try it for 14 days. Anyone know what the deal is with replacing the RAM and the 14 day return policy? I need 64GB but don't want to pay applueprice for that.

I came to the Mini forum direct from digilloyd (Lloyd Chambers) after reading his thoughts on the new mini. He actually puts it well ahead of the Mac Pro when you opt for the i7 processor and add aftermarket RAM (64gb from OWC is half the Apple price). Still a pricey machine when go i7 and 64gb at about $2500 but seems to be very good option these days - surprisingly so based on how the mini started off.

I am still running on a 5k iMac but am curious about the mini now when I get the itch to upgrade...

 

[WrightBrain]

@F-Train @tpivette89 thatsfor your help getting the thread back on track. I'd all but abondoned it.

I may just buy a 2018 mini and try it for 14 days. Anyone know what the deal is with replacing the RAM and the 14 day return policy? I need 64GB but don't want to pay applueprice for that.

I like buying from Expercom.com. They will install Apple RAM OR lower cost RAM by request at time of order. Check them out.

 

[Reality4711]

I like buying from Expercom.com. They will install Apple RAM OR lower cost RAM by request at time of order. Check them out.

Thats a service I would love to see here!

Wonder if they deliver to Scotland?

 

[F-Train]

I like buying from Expercom.com. They will install Apple RAM OR lower cost RAM by request at time of order. Check them out.

Never heard of these people before. Just checked out their site, and it looks good. Will keep them in mind. Thanks for the reference.

 

[smetvid]

Photoshop is not a resource heavy application. A MP seems like massive overkill for Photoshop use.

Has the OP considered the iMac? It has a pretty good GPU and the 5k display is a darn good visual display for color and clarity. The display will likely make a huge impact in photo work a lot more than the CPU or GPU would.

Another option is to add a eGPU to a Mac Mini. Likely vastly cheaper than a new MP and you can choose the exact GPU you can afford/need.

Limit the internal storage on the mini since it’s easy to add an external drive to a desktop computer. If a good 4k monitor is good enough for you then this is a much cheaper option vs the iMac Pro. You can setup a 6 core CPU, Vega 64 GPU and 64GB of ram 3rd party for $1,200 + $500 + $300 + $689 = $2,689. You can also save a ton by only getting 32GB for now and upgrade to 64GB later. A 32Gb setup will run you $2,230 minus the monitor, keyboard and mouse of course. I personally prefer to use two 4k monitors vs one 5k monitor for greater horizontal workspace. You can save a few more bucks if you find a refurb Mac Mini from Apple. The above prices also include the 10bg Ethernet for future fast storage options. You can shave off another $100 by just getting the defaul 1gb Ethernet or if you exclusively use WiFi at home and never bother with Ethernet. 10gb storage can be really good for video editing but for photos I’m sure a HDD or SSD hooked up to the USB3 ports on the Mac Mini would be more than enough.

 

[Reality4711]

Never heard of these people before. Just checked out their site, and it looks good. Will keep them in mind. Thanks for the reference.

Photoshop is not a resource heavy application. A MP seems like massive overkill for Photoshop use.

Has the OP considered the iMac? It has a pretty good GPU and the 5k display is a darn good visual display for color and clarity. The display will likely make a huge impact in photo work a lot more than the CPU or GPU would.

Another option is to add a eGPU to a Mac Mini. Likely vastly cheaper than a new MP and you can choose the exact GPU you can afford/need.

Limit the internal storage on the mini since it’s easy to add an external drive to a desktop computer. If a good 4k monitor is good enough for you then this is a much cheaper option vs the iMac Pro. You can setup a 6 core CPU, Vega 64 GPU and 64GB of ram 3rd party for $1,200 + $500 + $300 + $689 = $2,689. You can also save a ton by only getting 32GB for now and upgrade to 64GB later. A 32Gb setup will run you $2,230 minus the monitor, keyboard and mouse of course. I personally prefer to use two 4k monitors vs one 5k monitor for greater horizontal workspace. You can save a few more bucks if you find a refurb Mac Mini from Apple. The above prices also include the 10bg Ethernet for future fast storage options. You can shave off another $100 by just getting the defaul 1gb Ethernet or if you exclusively use WiFi at home and never bother with Ethernet. 10gb storage can be really good for video editing but for photos I’m sure a HDD or SSD hooked up to the USB3 ports on the Mac Mini would be more than enough.

The PS usage of GPU is as I understand it not high and from the descriptions I've read the relative minor GPU in the 2018 MM can handle most things thrown at it.
My wife i5 with just base ram is running Adobe cc stuff pretty well up to about 20Gb Raw files. Not a lot of editing but she finds it considerably more agile than her 2015 mbp i5 with 16 gb of ram..
A few of my contacts are running the top end mm with an eGPU setup very successfully however they are using Affinity products Photo/Designer.
The MM+eGPU looks on the surface a damned good option for our OP. Good call. Very flexible and plug&play in most cases with Mojave.

Sounds like good advice F-Train & smetvid.

Regards All.

 

[WrightBrain]

Wonder if they deliver to Scotland?

I just checked and I'm afraid they can't. Sorry about that.
[doublepost=1552402542][/doublepost]

Photoshop is not a resource heavy application. A MP seems like massive overkill for Photoshop use.

Has the OP considered the iMac? It has a pretty good GPU and the 5k display is a darn good visual display for color and clarity. The display will likely make a huge impact in photo work a lot more than the CPU or GPU would.

Another option is to add a eGPU to a Mac Mini. Likely vastly cheaper than a new MP and you can choose the exact GPU you can afford/need.

Limit the internal storage on the mini since it’s easy to add an external drive to a desktop computer. If a good 4k monitor is good enough for you then this is a much cheaper option vs the iMac Pro. You can setup a 6 core CPU, Vega 64 GPU and 64GB of ram 3rd party for $1,200 + $500 + $300 + $689 = $2,689. You can also save a ton by only getting 32GB for now and upgrade to 64GB later. A 32Gb setup will run you $2,230 minus the monitor, keyboard and mouse of course. I personally prefer to use two 4k monitors vs one 5k monitor for greater horizontal workspace. You can save a few more bucks if you find a refurb Mac Mini from Apple. The above prices also include the 10bg Ethernet for future fast storage options. You can shave off another $100 by just getting the defaul 1gb Ethernet or if you exclusively use WiFi at home and never bother with Ethernet. 10gb storage can be really good for video editing but for photos I’m sure a HDD or SSD hooked up to the USB3 ports on the Mac Mini would be more than enough.

How reliable IS an eGPU? I saw a review where theirs kept disconnecting and wasn't recognized by the Mini sometimes.

 

[dimme]

How reliable IS an eGPU? I saw a review where theirs kept disconnecting and wasn't recognized by the Mini sometimes.[/QUOTE]
I am also think of a mini and eGPU to replace a 2015 iMac 5K. But I would likr to know about the eGPU process. Does the OS see the eGPU as part of the computer like in the MacPro or iMac?

 

[F-Train]

I am also think of a mini and eGPU to replace a 2015 iMac 5K. But I would likr to know about the eGPU process. Does the OS see the eGPU as part of the computer like in the MacPro or iMac?

You can tell macOS to prefer the external graphics card over the internal card on an app-by-app basis.

This current thread, with over 47,000 views, has a lot of info on using an external GPU with the 2018 mini: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/external-gpu-egpu-resources.2154653/

 

[dimme]

You can tell macOS to prefer the external graphics card over the internal card on an app-by-app basis.

This current thread, with over 47,000 views, has a lot of info on using an external GPU with the 2018 mini: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/external-gpu-egpu-resources.2154653/

Thanks for the info. I looked over the form and it was very interesting, Now I an weighing getting a mini with a eGPU and a iMac. For me right now the iMac is a better value, but I sure like having individual components.

 

[phrehdd]

We have several PCs and they run Photoshop slower than a 10 year old Mac Pro. Must be windows

Looks like a user based problem. Over the years, many tests have been done showing that Windows does in most cases beat Mac on various scores where Photoshop is concerned. This may not have anything to do with either operating systems or near equivalent hardware but how Adobe optimized for Mac and Windows.

I happen to prefer OSX/MacOS over Windows since "Vista" reared its ugly face and underpinnings.
[doublepost=1552413477][/doublepost]

I’m in need of a new machine. I can’t wait any longer. I use Photoshop in a heavy way. Files are between 4GB and 20GB

I currently use the following
2010 Mac Pro 6 core 3.46GHz, 64GB ram, 1TB SSBUX SSD
Or a
2013 Mac Pro 6 core 3.5GHz, 64GB ram, 1TB ssd

There isn’t much in it between these machines.

I’m worndering if a 2018 Mac Mini i7 6 core 3.2GHz, 64GB ram 1TB ssd would be any better?

Photoshop doesn’t really make use of GPU but the internal graphics on the Mini seems to be pretty rubbish. Will it be good enough?

This might be a worthwhile read for you. My fear is one of heating up and ability to keep them in a temperature safe margin.

https://macperformanceguide.com/MacMini2018-diglloydBenchmarks.html

 

[jdiamond]

I’m in need of a new machine. I can’t wait any longer. I use Photoshop in a heavy way. Files are between 4GB and 20GB

I currently use the following
2010 Mac Pro 6 core 3.46GHz, 64GB ram, 1TB SSBUX SSD
Or a
2013 Mac Pro 6 core 3.5GHz, 64GB ram, 1TB ssd

There isn’t much in it between these machines.

I’m worndering if a 2018 Mac Mini i7 6 core 3.2GHz, 64GB ram 1TB ssd would be any better?

Photoshop doesn’t really make use of GPU but the internal graphics on the Mini seems to be pretty rubbish. Will it be good enough?

Don't discount an iMac as the most cost effective option. Once you are talking about adding an eGPU to the Mac Mini, the prices are suddenly VERY competitive, despite the fact you're getting another monitor you probably don't need on the iMac. (The high end 4.2 GHz quad core i7 on the iMac actually out performs the 6-core i9 on the Mac Mini in both single and multicore and has an RX580 GPU already in it, which has higher performance than the eGPU version with the TB3 bottleneck.) The iMac is actually more upgradeable than the Mac Mini because you can also upgrade the hard drives in it. (Although to be fair, any desktop machine can just use external disk storage.) Plus the iMac still has USB-C ports, although only half as many.

My honest advice would be once your Mac Mini setup exceeds $2K, better to go with a 2017 iMac, even if you don't need the display.