Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) at WWDC

[Kelmon]

I hate to be pessimistic here but it's interesting to see many people declaring the new features for Leopard and that it's going to be great whereas in reality almost nothing is known about this release. Given this I'm withholding all judgement on this release until after the demonstrations and a feature list so that I can evaluate how this is going to help me get my work done.

On a side note, Tiger delivered a reasonable amount of new and useful features but came at the price (for me) of a slower system and more frequent screw-ups. I'm going to be buying a MacBook Pro later this year and therefore my wife will inherit my PowerBook that I will rebuild for her. As part of this rebuild I may put Panther back on again rather than Tiger since she's unlikely to have much need for the new features in Tiger and she may appreciate more the speed and reliability it delivered.

 

[DCBass]

Ummmm remember that Apple is dropping the word "Power" from their computers. The new PowerMac's will be called MacMac's.

Do you think? I bet the new powermacs will be called MacMacPro's.

Personally, I think it's really catchy. New owners will brag about their MacMacProooooooo'sssssssssss.... and all of you people here chomping at the bit to get one will be dreaming

"MacMac... MacMac... MacMacProoooo..... zzzzzzzzzz.........."

Oh, and no one will think that the name sucks this time.

 

[Lurch_Mojoff]

Yeah I'm super excited. I think the one thing that I would never be able to get over, and would completely surprise me, would have to be resolution independent UI. it's gotta happen sooner or later. man would that freak me out.

Well, I guess I'm getting too old for such excitement, but I would not be the least surprised (or sarcastic, I'm not quite sure if you're being serious here) to see resolution independent UI. The reason? There is such feature already in Tiger (kind of... sort of... maybe... probably you can call it that way... head... spinning... need... beer...) . It is surely not a complete subsystem. Heck, I'm not even sure if it is an early stage in the development of such subsystem at all or it is just a quick hack to make Quartz emulate future functionality. It is definitely not intended to be used in any way by the end user - it is there strictly for developers for test purposes. But it is right there in Quartz Debug (part of the developer tools). However, when Apple exposes something (API, subsystem, etc.) to developers, it is almost certain to appear as a standard feature in the next release.

edit: on second reading I had to correct a small brainfart

 

[aegisdesign]

I feel that Apple should not be charging us for all these "new" OSX. Honestly, comparing my wife's OSX 10.2 and my OSX 10.4, there isn't THAT much of a difference, mainly Dashboard, and Finder, which isn't really worth the price of two upgrades (10.3, 10.4). Maybe from 10.1 to 10.5 that might be worth the price of ONE upgrade. What do you people think?

And Spotlight, Expose, Safari 2.0, FontBook, iChatAV, working sync services... and lot's of speed increases.

If you don't use them though, don't upgrade.

It's not as if there's much visual or feature difference between Windows 95 and Windows 2000 either is there? And that costs a lot more than $129. Arguably, on the face of it, there's a lot less difference between Windows 95 and WindowsXP beyond the Fisher Price graphics than OSX 10.1 and 10.4.

 

[gkhaldi]

I'm all for the revamped finder and faster spotlight...but what is the random new feature that suddenly we all will "have to have"?

A Calendar function that integrates with Exchange and is compatible with OS X 10.5.x

 

[Maxiseller]

I'd love an updated GUI.

I remember the days being a WinXP user and staring at the Mac GUI in awe at how something so simple could look so beautiful. That was in the days of 10.2.

Now, the term "aqua" really doesn't bear any significance to the OS at all - we have three coloured blobs and the blue sidebar that remains...everything else is metal/plastic/random!

Tidy it up!!

 

[Photorun]

Yep, with the ability to boot Mac OS X on a PC!! (best.feature.ever.for.Windows.)

Best.undercut.ever.ruining.hardware.sales.ruining.Apple.

May OS X never be allowed to be a native option on FUGLY peecee! If you like peecees so much there's this crappy OS that works good (well, good for someone who likes peecees) called Windows. Too cheap to buy a Mac? Too bad.

 

[milo]

I feel that Apple should not be charging us for all these "new" OSX. Honestly, comparing my wife's OSX 10.2 and my OSX 10.4, there isn't THAT much of a difference, mainly Dashboard, and Finder, which isn't really worth the price of two upgrades (10.3, 10.4). Maybe from 10.1 to 10.5 that might be worth the price of ONE upgrade. What do you people think?

If you don't think it's worth it, just don't upgrade. Keep using the old version. And if you want to go from 10.1 to 10.5, just don't buy the upgrades in between. OSX upgrades don't actually require any previous version of OSX, so skip as many as you want.

So I guess it looks like 10.5 will ship almost exactly the same time as Vista? Late 2006/early 2007? It will be weird having the OS release so close to the iLife/iWork releases, I'm sure there will be complaining about so many paid upgrades so close together. A discounted bundle of all three would be nice.

 

[jonharris200]

Ummmm remember that Apple is dropping the word "Power" from their computers. The new PowerMac's will be called MacMac's.

MacMacs... kinda cute, but probably more 'Kid' than 'Pro'.

Reminds me somehow of the April Fools rumour that the next version of OS X was actually gonna to be called Felix.

 

[milo]

What about a new version of bootcamp that supports linux? Is that a possibility?

I think people have done it already. It's not a big deal, you just need to find linux drivers.

With "PowerBook" changing to "MacBook" they weren't so much dropping "Power" as adding "Mac". It's marketing 101 - Brand re-enforcement.

Therefore, Apple may leave the "PowerMac" as the "PowerMac".

However, I believe that Apple will call it the "MacPro" or "MacintoshPro" (not likely) to align itself with other "pro" hardware (MacBookPro) and software (Final Cut, etc.) and seperate it from consumer hardware (iMac) and software (iLife etc).

Jobs said himself, "we're done with Power". Mac Pro it is.

On a side note, Tiger delivered a reasonable amount of new and useful features but came at the price (for me) of a slower system and more frequent screw-ups. I'm going to be buying a MacBook Pro later this year and therefore my wife will inherit my PowerBook that I will rebuild for her. As part of this rebuild I may put Panther back on again rather than Tiger since she's unlikely to have much need for the new features in Tiger and she may appreciate more the speed and reliability it delivered.

Wow, Tiger was slower for you? For me, every new release of OSX has been snappier, that's the case for most people since they continue to optimize the code. If it's slower, there's probably something wrong with your install, I'd try installing again. Honestly, I think the oldest, slowest machines are the ones that benefit the most from the new versions of OSX. I wish I could easily put tiger on my beige g3.

I do agree that I have yet to see a list of features that get me excited, at this point I assume the biggest benefit of 10.5 will be stuff under the hood.

 

[AidenShaw]

maybe Jobs will say "64-bit" again

Nobody at Apple has said much about "64-bit" since last June, for some reason .

WWDC would be a good time for Apple to say

- 10.5 x64 will be true 64-bit for the new Merom/ Conroe/ Woodcrest chips

- all APIs will be 64-bits, so you won't have to re-architect your application to use the extra memory and speed of x64

- existing 32-bit applications will be fully supported (except for drivers and kernel extensions)

- 32-bit and 64-bit applications can run together

- there's no need to port your app to 64-bit, unless you want the extra speed of x64 or unless you need more than 4 GiB of RAM per application
_____________________________________

But of course, that sounds just like the feature set of Windows XP x64 Edition - and Apple wouldn't be caught copying Windows, would they?

 

[adamfilip]

My Leopard Predictions:

-New Finder (YAY!)
-totally resolution independant UI (vector everything thats possible)
-built in virtualization for windows, linux.. etc.
-Front Row with Tuner ability (if hardware exists)
-ability to use PC based Video cards (with no flashing)
-Bootcamp intergrated
-revised Dock with 3d desktop
-improved and working Windows printing support!
-full 64bit support
-Safari 3.0
-ilife '07
- Spotlight 2.0 - much faster and can identify photos by content (limited ability)
- New Backup Utility

 

[kretzy]

I'll be very, very surprised if it has inbuilt Windows virtualisation. I just don't see Apple wanting to make it easy for people to use Windows. Boot Camp involves effort, and because of this it will keep people using OS X most of the time which is what they want.

 

[JFreak]

May OS X never be allowed to be a native option on FUGLY peecee!

Never? Like in "Apple will never use Intel processors" or "Apple will never sell multi-button mice"?

 

[MacsRgr8]

Best.undercut.ever.ruining.hardware.sales.ruining.Apple.

May OS X never be allowed to be a native option on FUGLY peecee! If you like peecees so much there's this crappy OS that works good (well, good for someone who likes peecees) called Windows. Too cheap to buy a Mac? Too bad.

That smiley tried to indicate sarcasm....

I have had a couple of builds of 10.4.x on my NEC PeeCee just before it died, and you bet ya it was horrid. It was fun getting it running, but I would never want to use it as my main computer...

Got a Quad for that.

 

[milo]

If apple's going to update the OS for 64 bit, I wonder if they could take a couple minutes and update apps like Logic to notice that the Quad actually has two more processors. It's only been what, six months?

I'd also love to see them enable their pro apps to be able to see more than 4 gigs of ram (even on the PPC macs), but that's probably total fantasy world.

Never? Like in "Apple will never use Intel processors" or "Apple will never sell multi-button mice"?

That's actually one that I think WILL be a never. You really think they'd be willing to kiss most of their hardware sales goodby?

 

[JFreak]

Leopard will be released in late 2006/early 2007, and iLife '07 will be released in the beginning of 2007.

Leopard will _NOT_ be released in 2006, that's a given. Steve most likely wants to take as much as possible away from the Vista hype Microsoft is trying to generate; so Leopard _WILL_ be released shortly after Vista, if it's not to be once again delayed -- therefore early 2007 is pretty good estimate.

--> Leopard will include iLife'07 versions of downloadable iApps (iWeb and iPhoto, perhaps even iMovie).

 

[generik]

Best.undercut.ever.ruining.hardware.sales.ruining.Apple.

May OS X never be allowed to be a native option on FUGLY peecee! If you like peecees so much there's this crappy OS that works good (well, good for someone who likes peecees) called Windows. Too cheap to buy a Mac? Too bad.

Need validation for your existence? Too bad!

Anyway Macs are low quality hardware and overpriced, I wouldn't mind paying $500 if MacOS for PCs are ever released, and I am sure quite some will do so too, however at that kind of "predatory" pricing it is not going to get very far in the marketplace.

All I want is to run MacOS on top quality PC hardware.

 

[Symtex]

First we had Intel chipset, then we got bootcamp, Do you think apple with ship their new PowerMacPro with Windows Vista/Mac OS pre install ?it's next logical step. Eventually Apple might only become an hardware company like Dell. I hope not.

 

[MacsRgr8]

If apple's going to update the OS for 64 bit, I wonder if they could take a couple minutes and update apps like Logic to notice that the Quad actually has two more processors. It's only been what, six months?

I'd also love to see them enable their pro apps to be able to see more than 4 gigs of ram (even on the PPC macs), but that's probably total fantasy world.

Most apps only use one or two CPU's.
But allowing more apps use more than one CPU is quite cool....

Too bad games hardly ever use more than one CPU

 

[Analog Kid]

I'm surprised by how few rumors we've had about what's in 10.5. The biggest question I'll have is stability-- did they rush it to beat Vista?

It would be great to see Apple really drive home the security issue here, given that Vista will probably go down within days. Better Spotlight integration would be nice too. I'm probably the only one who thinks it's a bit slow, but I don't think I'm the only one who thinks it's hiding most of its power.

Finder could use some work too. I'm happy with it in general, but there's just a little inconsistency-- particularly in the sidebar. Better Spotlight integration here would be nice too.

Better speech interface would be nice-- I've always wanted to use Speakable Items, but get tired of it not recognizing my commands and a little nervous that it's going to do something stupid so I turn it back off.

There's just not much more that I need in OS X-- Tiger would keep me happy for quite a while, I think. I'm curious to see where it goes. I guess I'd be happiest to see more business features-- I'm not sure what those would be though. Something to grease the skids on getting better corporate market share...

 

[kalisphoenix]

I'm hoping for:

New Finder -> Apple just decides to use Path Finder and validate that chap's time and effort, perhaps with a lot more options to simply browsing for those who don't need the options.

Boot Camp incorporated into the OS at a basic level -> Pretty much a gimme, I think.

Xen integration to allow for fast switching between full-screen, fully-accelerated operating systems.

Integrated Deep Freeze 8) -> Okay, maybe this is just something that only I, a computer obsessive-compulsive, could really get thrilled by. But I get severely disturbed by cruft. And you can't kill it all! Not all of it! There are little bits of cruft all over your computer... slowing performance... taking up disk space... why, they may even be talking to your children. Das ist auch dein Geld! And so on. Anyway, it'd be pimp to install OS X on my computer, have all of my stuff on a Firewire/USB2 hard drive, and if the computer is reset, it just goes back to where it was -- chillin' with all of my essential applications and a more-or-less clean slate. Fantastic. Appliance.

 

[Symtex]

I've said it before and I will say it again : If Apple wants any chances to gain market shares, they need improve gaming performance under MacOS X. It's the onlly reason why apple is still being consider as a niche market.

I love MacOs X. I think it's the best operating system ever. It is stable and comes with all the application you need for a home users but it lacks something : Good gaming performance. It's the only thing missing. The OpenGl subsystem under the MacOs X is suffering from low framerate. The reason why PC are so popular it's because of games.

 

[Sunrunner]

I don't think we'll see BootCamp integrated to run XP in OS X just yet. Remember, BootCamp is currently in beta, not alpha. Beta stage usually indicates that major development is basically completed, it just has some bugs that need to be worked out.

Bootcamp is the interim solution for users who dont have 10.5 (so everybody atm). I expect similar functionality in 10.5, but a different implementation. Virtualization is almost a given at this point.

 

[Sunrunner]

My Leopard Predictions:

-New Finder (YAY!)
-totally resolution independant UI (vector everything thats possible)
-built in virtualization for windows, linux.. etc.
-Front Row with Tuner ability (if hardware exists)
-ability to use PC based Video cards (with no flashing)
-Bootcamp intergrated
-revised Dock with 3d desktop
-improved and working Windows printing support!
-full 64bit support
-Safari 3.0
-ilife '07
- Spotlight 2.0 - much faster and can identify photos by content (limited ability)
- New Backup Utility

I bet we will get at least 80% of the items on your list. I think the technologies are ripe for those items to be feasible.