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No way I'm buying Lion on anything but DVD (or maybe a thumbdrive)...

Call me apocalyptic, but someday, something, is going to hit the oscillating motor in my ceiling, and that day will be much more manageable if I have a physical copy of my OS
 
Where can I read more about this?

Maybe it just the Australian situation but this story is a reasonable look at the situation here. A quick google and all but one of the major ISP's in OZ have iTunes in their "freezone". Admittedly the Australian situation is a little different as all Overseas content has to come down very narrow pipes, so our internet caps have generally been about access to those pipes.

everyone-needs-to-calm-down-about-internet-caps/
 
Thats all well and good and I'ma let you finish, but that doesn't stop the worldwide market share from being 4% at the moment.

True, global market share is low. Is it 4%; I think it is a little over 5% now. Just pointing out that trends tend to originate in certain markets then transition to being global. iDevices are selling well globally so that may help drive the trend as well.

The "worldwide market share" includes places like India and China, where Windows dominates... but doesn't actually sell any copies of Windows.

I never thought about how piracy impacts Mac OS X market share. Obviously, building a Hackintosh is possible but not really a motive of most that resort to piracy.

The impact of piracy on Microsoft is pretty unreal. http://www.geek.com/articles/news/m...kes-a-beating-due-to-massive-piracy-20110527/

This must be a limiting factor in the growth of Mac market share given that Mac OS X piracy is less prevalent. Piracy is less relevant for Apple's profit margins as well given that more revenue comes from the sale of hardware.

I wonder how much piracy (less developed nations) and the growth of Mac market share (more developed nations) is affecting Microsoft; not that it is enough of a chunk to matter. Is piracy driving MS's move into the ad revenue game with Bing and teaming up with Baidu?

I think in markets, such as China, India and Brazil, that users looking for an alternative to Windows at the moment will switch to Linux rather than OS X for many obvious reasons. Does hardware coming preinstalled with Linux in these regions drive Windows piracy?

It is good to see Linux evolving as an alternative in many government settings given that it has greater compatibility with OS X in terms of porting software and open source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_adoption#Government
 
Apple have iStore content caching deals with a lot of ISP's these days.

As KnightWRX said:

That's what Akamai is for. ;)

Akamai puts caching servers at the ISPs - your ISP probably has a box that Akamai maintains, and that reduces any upstream bandwidth at your ISP's site.


You wouldn't be relying on the speed of the Internet at large.

Most of the time the bandwidth problem isn't on the Internet, but on the "last mile" - the connection from your local ISP hub to your house.


Where can I read more about this?

Just Yahoo! for "akamai".
 
Once again, the developer builds are not current builds. They only release a new developer build when something changes that affects developers. The internal builds are far ahead of what we have now.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but Lion is nowhere near ready for release.

The betas are flaky at best.

No developers have had time to build against Lion for testing.

If Apple released Lion without going through normal development cycles it would be suicide.

Look, I teach CS and Software Engineering outlines development cycles for a reason. I want Lion as much as everyone else but I was a STABLE version that runs all my software. Not a version that is riddled with bugs because Apple is so secret that don't even let developers test their software on the new OS.

Finally, at the risk of being hated, I sure hope Lion doesn't disappoint. Nothing I seen so far in Lion makes me go "Wow!" like previous full versions have (SL does not count).

Oh, and I too would like a DVD...

Cheers!
-P
 
I don't think piracy is a concern if OSX Lion will cost the same as Snow Leopard.. I know tons of people who've actually bought Snow Leopard instead of downloading it..
 
I don't think piracy is a concern if OSX Lion will cost the same as Snow Leopard.. I know tons of people who've actually bought Snow Leopard instead of downloading it..

Agreed. $29 is definitely a sweet spot. I'm pretty sure Leopard cost $29 from my university's bookstore but having the retail price for Snow Leopard be $29 was a good move by Apple. I'd even pay more (say... $39) to get Lion on DVD, while a cheaper version was offered via the Mac App Store (at say, $29).
 
Heres what happens when you install Lion. It creates a partition on your mac for recovery. So when you click the installer in snow leopard, before you ever reboot that partition is there. So on the reboot you boot up to that recovery partition. It's just like having a cd in. You can then still choose disk utility and wipe the snow leopard partition if you want or just upgrade.

Well for one thing, I already know from this forum thread that the disk image within the DP can be made in to a bootable installation DVD. (But it took a few pages of comments before someone came out with that information.)

And if for a fresh install I had to start with my system restore disk, yes the physical media would be worth much extra.

I never said I was afraid of anything. I was replying to a suggested scenario by someone pointing out that it was stupid.

There has been a lot of useful information from various people in this thread and a bunch of stupid ideas. Sometimes the stupidity needs to be pointed out.

Oh as for a "clean user experience", the more steps it takes to restore a system from a clean install, the less clean it is, especially if some of those steps takes hours. And the post I was replying to was suggesting a long time consuming scenario.
 
Heres what happens when you install Lion. It creates a partition on your mac for recovery. So when you click the installer in snow leopard, before you ever reboot that partition is there. So on the reboot you boot up to that recovery partition. It's just like having a cd in. You can then still choose disk utility and wipe the snow leopard partition if you want or just upgrade.

What is interesting is the Lion recovery 'partition' isn't a normal partition. I can't see it from SL's Disk Utility when booted into my 10.6.7 partition on the same drive yet I can from Lion's Disk Utility when booted into 10.7.
 
As KnightWRX said:

Akamai puts caching servers at the ISPs - your ISP probably has a box that Akamai maintains, and that reduces any upstream bandwidth at your ISP's site.

Most of the time the bandwidth problem isn't on the Internet, but on the "last mile" - the connection from your local ISP hub to your house.

Just Yahoo! for "akamai".

He did indeed, he said while I typing. Then I read what he wrote after posting and thought "that makes a lot of sense" indeed what you say makes more sense.

Yes the last mile is going to be the issue if the data isn't to far away.
Move the data across an ocean to say Hawaii or Australia and the trip in the middle starts to be the issue. So akamai have made a business out not relying so much on those long under water/ground runs. It's enough of an issue that I notice a difference in speed between popular media and more obscure or alternative media.
 
Finally, at the risk of being hated, I sure hope Lion doesn't disappoint. Nothing I seen so far in Lion makes me go "Wow!" like previous full versions have (SL does not count).
Brace yourself for disappointment then. What you've seen is the bulk of it.
 
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but Lion is nowhere near ready for release.

The betas are flaky at best.

No developers have had time to build against Lion for testing.

If Apple released Lion without going through normal development cycles it would be suicide.

Look, I teach CS and Software Engineering outlines development cycles for a reason. I want Lion as much as everyone else but I was a STABLE version that runs all my software. Not a version that is riddled with bugs because Apple is so secret that don't even let developers test their software on the new OS.

Finally, at the risk of being hated, I sure hope Lion doesn't disappoint. Nothing I seen so far in Lion makes me go "Wow!" like previous full versions have (SL does not count).

Oh, and I too would like a DVD...

Cheers!
-P

I share your thoughts exactly

The Apple of just a few years back would never release it early. However I have lost my confidence in them, based on their cavalier attitude and questionable actions since then.

For example, the Pro Apple Wall St Journal even admitted that Jobs was told six months before he released iPhone 4, that there was a serious problem with the antenna.

However the much bigger problem, was the fact that the style and location of said antenna was Jobs idea and he is never wrong. Just ask his worshipers. Ship it, he barked, and ship it they did.

Then to show off his power and supreme ego, he talked down to all that bought one saying the now famous "You're holding it wrong" comment.

At that moment while holding my iP4 in hand, the one that DID have problems, my respect for Apple & years of trust vanished.

I still enjoy my Apple computers and all, but now I approach my purchases differently and very carefully. I no longer tell people who ask for guidance, to buy from them. I'm not willing to take what has now become a huge risk.
 
For example, the Pro Apple Wall St Journal even admitted that Jobs was told six months before he released iPhone 4, that there was a serious problem with the antenna.

However the much bigger problem, was the fact that the style and location of said antenna was Jobs idea and he is never wrong. Just ask his worshipers. Ship it, he barked, and ship it they did.

According to Jobs, that story is "a total crock."
 
No physical media, no update from me.I have no desire to wait for a huge download on clogged servers.
 
^ how big will it be, Xcode is already 4GB, it takes awhile. I also would want a USB version so I can install on my MBA's.

I had my first run in from MacDefender last night, some how it was linked from a twitter feed. Anyhow, it got nuked, I ended up force quitting Safari so I would not click on anything, and delete what it downloaded from downloads. Glad :apple: is addressing this malware. My Father in Law fell for the whole story in his email, and now is infected, Apple gave him a link to the support page for removal, he is on 10.4.11.
 
No physical media, no update from me.I have no desire to wait for a huge download on clogged servers.

Unless your internet is really really terrible, it'll be faster than shipping. Just let it sit overnight if you have to.


^ how big will it be, Xcode is already 4GB, it takes awhile. I also would want a USB version so I can install on my MBA's.

~3.5 GB. You can restore it to a USB drive.
 
I really want to buy Lion through the App Store as soon as it comes out, but I wonder if we'll be able to burn a Lion DVD, using the downloadable version.
There are occasions when a bootable OS DVD is the only way to format your Mac and I really don't want to install Snow Leopard and then upgrade to Lion every time I decide to format my HDD.

I'm sure it will be a dmg. You have to burn a DVD and have it at hand for an emergency. A Mac App from the store installs via a script. A system disk, or a disk restore, would run from a script and ask if you want a DVD of it.
 
Quick question, if I buy a Mac before its release will I get a free upgrade?

Two possibilities:

1) You have to buy it AFTER the final Lion release is announced to have a chance to get a free upgrade to Lion upon its release. This meets Apple's requirements from an accounting perspective; they cannot offer you a "free" upgrade unless the final shipping version was already announced prior to your purchase of the Mac.

2) You buy it BEFORE they announce Lion and you MAY qualify for a deeply discounted upgrade like $29 vs full disc at $119 or something.
 
What? I was aleviating munkees' fears that they wouldn't be able to get Lion onto a usb drive. What does this have to do with 3 TB drives from newegg? :confused:

Munkee's question was "how big will it be?" - therefore the fact that 3 TB drives are cheap is relevant.

It will fit.
 
Munkee's question was "how big will it be?" - therefore the fact that 3 TB drives are cheap is relevant.

It will fit.

Ah. I think he was concerned with download time. Obviously it'll fit. ;)


Two possibilities:

1) You have to buy it AFTER the final Lion release is announced to have a chance to get a free upgrade to Lion upon its release. This meets Apple's requirements from an accounting perspective; they cannot offer you a "free" upgrade unless the final shipping version was already announced prior to your purchase of the Mac.

2) You buy it BEFORE they announce Lion and you MAY qualify for a deeply discounted upgrade like $29 vs full disc at $119 or something.

They've never done #2 before, and they only sell full disks, not upgrade disks. #1 is likely, though Apple charges $10 for shipping. Hopefully they'll give people a free redeem code for the App Store instead.
 
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