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Because the Install DVD will check your Hard Disk for 10.5 or 10.6, much like the 10.5 Drop-in DVD does.

If you have 10.5 installed, and you boot from the 10.6 DVD, it sees you're running 10.5 and gives you the normal options: Upgrade, Archive or Erase.

If you have 10.6 installed, and you boot from the 10.6 DVD, it sees you're running 10.6 and gives you two options: Archive or Erase.

What if you've got to wipe your drive?


Am I the only one who thinks the new QuickTime icon is horrible?

No, I dislike it as well. It would look good if they changed to current one from blue to black.
 
I honestly don't think this deserve to be called 10.6. More like 10.5 R2.

That's crazy. Much of the code has been completely rewritten. Many significant new technologies are being added. The OS is going from 32-bit with PAE to 64-bit. Apple does not need add a ton of new visual features to justify making it a full point release.

S-
 
I'll be surprised if there's a big performance improvement on dual cpu systems.

There's already a thread on here that speaks favorably on the WWDC preview running well on a MBA. That's very encouraging.

When I think about my experience with Leopard and a Core Duo I think overall the performance is good but the beachballs do not signify a lack of processing power on my end but a systemic issue with stalls.

I'm getting that Snow Leopard eradicates many of these stalls so my perception of a faster computer will be the end result even if the statistical benchmarks fail to denote a huge change.
 
A couple questions:

Does Snow Leopard still run Rosetta?
Does Snow Leopard still run Carbon code?
Does Snow Leopard still use the Extras2.rsrc file to draw the scrollbars and progress bars?

It's been almost 10 years since they've introduced Mac OS X and the scroll bars STILL have yet to change!
 
A couple questions:

Does Snow Leopard still run Rosetta?
Does Snow Leopard still run Carbon code?
Does Snow Leopard still use the Extras2.rsrc file to draw the scrollbars and progress bars?

It's been almost 10 years since they've introduced Mac OS X and the scroll bars STILL have yet to change!


Keeping in mind we are not seeing the final release yet.

Rosetta is an optional install. So far.
There is still carbon code. A lot less that 10.5 though. So far.
The Extras2.rsrc file is still there. So far.
 
That's crazy. Much of the code has been completely rewritten. Many significant new technologies are being added. The OS is going from 32-bit with PAE to 64-bit. Apple does not need add a ton of new visual features to justify making it a full point release.

S-

Thus the R2 not SP2, not the same thing. R2 is Release 2, meaning the same codebase has been rewritten with new technology and so on without any major changes in terms of productivity, GUI, and front end. Apple won't do that, so they'll just give it a full major release with its own name, Snow Leopard which is basically calling it R2 of Leopard.

Overall in my opinion they could wait another year to complete the OS. This is a stopgap release from 10.5 to 10.7. Apple probably wants to beat W7 and decided to focus on the first stage of 10.7, which is all the technologies that needs to be worked into so that the second stage of 10.7 which contains a lot of features can become possible.

If we can look at all of those new technologies and predict what kind of features it can bring to us, we can definitely come up with the original idea that Apple had for the real 10.6.
 
I wouldn't go that far. The addition of a 64-bit kernel is enough in my opinion to warrant the designation of 10.6.

Exactly. Calling it 10.5 R2 vs 10.6 is largely a case of semantics. Apple could call it OS X Tinkerbell if they wanted but the reality is consumers are easily confused and you don't want a situation where they have to differentiate between 10.5 and 10.5 R2.

Adding

64-bit
OpenCL
Grand Central Dispatch

as well as "removing" PPC support made it mandatory that they not call it 10.5.x.

Yet I get the feeling that statements like the above are more "civil protest" in nature rather than being earnest.
 
Exactly. Calling it 10.5 R2 vs 10.6 is largely a case of semantics. Apple could call it OS X Tinkerbell if they wanted but the reality is consumers are easily confused and you don't want a situation where they have to differentiate between 10.5 and 10.5 R2.

Adding

64-bit
OpenCL
Grand Central Dispatch

as well as "removing" PPC support made it mandatory that they not call it 10.5.x.

Yet I get the feeling that statements like the above are more "civil protest" in nature rather than being earnest.

Guys, I am not protesting in any way. I am merely expressing my opinion of what 10.6 is to me and what it feels like to me in my time with it (2 full days).

I don't honestly care what Apple calls it. I am happy they are getting rid of all the PPC code, making it pure x86 OS x and making the OS slimmer, faster, slicker and better before doing another release that's purely based on features.

Based on what Apple is doing with 10.6, I am setting my exceptions pretty high for 10.7 release. As I have some feeling that they have been working with 10.6/10.7 in parrallel track of development.
 
Apple wants to get OpenCL and Grand Central out in developers hands, not delay it another year or two. Also, they want to make sure all of these massive under the hood changes get done CORRECTLY before they start building extra features on top of them.
 
Thus the R2 not SP2, not the same thing. R2 is Release 2, meaning the same codebase has been rewritten with new technology and so on without any major changes in terms of productivity, GUI, and front end. Apple won't do that, so they'll just give it a full major release with its own name, Snow Leopard which is basically calling it R2 of Leopard.

Overall in my opinion they could wait another year to complete the OS. This is a stopgap release from 10.5 to 10.7. Apple probably wants to beat W7 and decided to focus on the first stage of 10.7, which is all the technologies that needs to be worked into so that the second stage of 10.7 which contains a lot of features can become possible.

If we can look at all of those new technologies and predict what kind of features it can bring to us, we can definitely come up with the original idea that Apple had for the real 10.6.


Really the designation of Snow Leopard as 10.6 or 10.5 R2 is just a bunch of semantics/opinions. Adding the 64-bit kernel and exchange support leads me to say 10.6 is applicable, but I totally agree with why you would call it 10.5 R2.

The thing of it is that outside of Apple, no one knows the roadmap/blueprint for OSX. It may have been intended that Leopard added 32-bit with PAE and then Snow Leopard would add 64-bit.

I tend to think that Leopard, not Snow Leopard, was the "rush" job. I use that term loosely because it was delayed, but I still remember the reports that Leopard programers had been pulled to assist with the original iPhone. Leopard at first seemed very "unpolished" at best.
 
Overall in my opinion they could wait another year to complete the OS. This is a stopgap release from 10.5 to 10.7. Apple probably wants to beat W7 and decided to focus on the first stage of 10.7, which is all the technologies that needs to be worked into so that the second stage of 10.7 which contains a lot of features can become possible.

I expect, though, that within a year we will see new systems with four or more cpu threads and higher powered graphics processors. Snow Leopard is intended to get the performance out of those systems, and releasing it now gives Apple time to get it really solid by the time the new designs come out.
 
Guys, I am not protesting in any way. I am merely expressing my opinion of what 10.6 is to me and what it feels like to me in my time with it (2 full days).

MikhailT - I've read your posts and you're a level headed guy. I really meant those who resort to saying "well I don't think I should pay because Snow Leopard is really 10.5.x).

I think Apple made the very wise decision to charge $29 for Snow Leopard. Makes a purchase for Intel Mac users (in particular multiple Intel Mac dwellings) a no brainer but much like Leopard was a bit anti-climatic for me after upgrading my tiger I expect Snow Leopard to be even more anti-climatic. Sure the UI tweaks will be there but as you state 10.7 will likely have some big features where it feels like you've punched through and have something new.

I tend to think that Leopard, not Snow Leopard, was the "rush" job. I use that term loosely because it was delayed, but I still remember the reports that Leopard programers had been pulled to assist with the original iPhone. Leopard at first seemed very "unpolished" at best.


Yes! Have we had an OS that we could say is truly polished and, for a consumer OS, bulletproof? I think we're finally on the doorstep.
 
I expect, though, that within a year we will see new systems with four or more cpu threads and higher powered graphics processors. Snow Leopard is intended to get the performance out of those systems, and releasing it now gives Apple time to get it really solid by the time the new designs come out.

It would be totally nice to see better graphic cards in all of the Macs. Hopefully enough that it could convince several of the recent new iPhone developers to develop games on the Macs. It may not happen but with the Apple's now 75 million user base, it can be possible. We can only hope.
 
There's already a thread on here that speaks favorably on the WWDC preview running well on a MBA. That's very encouraging.

When I think about my experience with Leopard and a Core Duo I think overall the performance is good but the beachballs do not signify a lack of processing power on my end but a systemic issue with stalls.

I'm getting that Snow Leopard eradicates many of these stalls so my perception of a faster computer will be the end result even if the statistical benchmarks fail to denote a huge change.

This one? We still await quantitative benchmarks, but it's good to get some useful general first hand estimates
MBA on 10A380 Snow Leopard:
Start up: 42 seconds
Shut down: 4 seconds

Apple:
Snow Leopard is up to 75 percent faster when shutting down, twice as fast when waking from sleep with screen locking enabled

Automator on Snow Leopard article, info from Apple:

One of the refinements listed was that Mac OS X Services would now be a feature of Automator. Services let you use features of one application while you are inside of another. In the Automator instance, you would be able to use workflows while you are inside of any Mac OS X application that supports the use of Services.

New starting points for Automator. It’s easier to create workflows using Automator with new starting points for Applications, Services, Folder Actions, iCal alarms, and more.
 
This one? We still await quantitative benchmarks, but it's good to get some useful general first hand estimates
MBA on 10A380 Snow Leopard:
Start up: 42 seconds
Shut down: 4 seconds

Yes and there was a posting on Ars Technica Mac Achia from a guy who wasn't even running the WWDC build and he stated he didn't want to go back to 10.5.7 because he was already used to the speed. Granted he had a Mac Pro.

I think this bodes well for even the basic dual core owner. After all I've seen people obsess over the decision to buy a 2.0Ghz or a 2.26Ghz and that's what a sub 10% speed difference between the two?

If Snow Leopard is perceptibly faster in many areas my 2Ghz computer now feels like a 2.26Ghz for 30 bucks. I like.
 
Yes and there was a posting on Ars Technica Mac Achia from a guy who wasn't even running the WWDC build and he stated he didn't want to go back to 10.5.7 because he was already used to the speed. Granted he had a Mac Pro.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a noticeable performance increase with 4 or 8 cpus.

I think this bodes well for even the basic dual core owner. After all I've seen people obsess over the decision to buy a 2.0Ghz or a 2.26Ghz and that's what a sub 10% speed difference between the two?

Isn't 2.26 a 13% increase over 2.0? ;)
 
It'll be interesting to see what difference Snow Leopard will make on my mid-2007 MBP. Though I do plan on upgrading to the newest MBP next summer. My feeling is that there may be a few "Adobes" with regards to third party software being written to 64-bit cocoa and we may not see that much of a performance boost for another year. Actually, I would be surprised if this didn't happen.
 
Thus the R2 not SP2, not the same thing. R2 is Release 2, meaning the same codebase has been rewritten with new technology and so on without any major changes in terms of productivity, GUI, and front end. Apple won't do that, so they'll just give it a full major release with its own name, Snow Leopard which is basically calling it R2 of Leopard.

Overall in my opinion they could wait another year to complete the OS. This is a stopgap release from 10.5 to 10.7. Apple probably wants to beat W7 and decided to focus on the first stage of 10.7, which is all the technologies that needs to be worked into so that the second stage of 10.7 which contains a lot of features can become possible.

If we can look at all of those new technologies and predict what kind of features it can bring to us, we can definitely come up with the original idea that Apple had for the real 10.6.
The fact that 10.6 does not run on PPC means you cannot call it 10.5R2. Even if the UI was exactly the same and there were no new core technologies included, considering that the code was changed from PPC/Intel to Intel only and the kernel was changed from 32-bit to 64-bit would justify a version number of 10.6.

The fact is that the underlying code in 10.6 is significantly different than 10.5.7. There are multiple new core technologies and many enhanced existing core technologies.

The "real" 10.6 was always going to be what it is today. The groundwork for many exciting features to come down the road. You have to plow the field before you plant your corn....

S-
 
I don't recommend pressing 64 on boot to enable 64bit kernel, it bricked my MBP. had to install SL again.
 
I don't recommend pressing 64 on boot to enable 64bit kernel, it bricked my MBP. had to install SL again.

Can developers use a FW drive or similar, and install Snow Leopard onto that, and keep their Leopard drive alone? Sorry to hear it bricked your MBP.
 
Can developers use a FW drive or similar, and install Snow Leopard onto that, and keep their Leopard drive alone? Sorry to hear it bricked your MBP.

I didn't even lose any files. It only ate like 30 min of my time. Everything was restored exactly it was before I managed to brick it.

Yes Firewire external drive is commonly used among developers. I just wanted to use SL as main OS to feel it on my internal SSD.
 
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