Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard - What, Where, When, Why & How much

[Catfish_Man]

Any examples? As far as I can tell everything in SL is fully supported on any unibody MBP.

64 bits of kernel virtual address space is not going to be especially helpful with only two ram slots and no upgradeable GPU (some posts on arstechnica discussing the topic indicated that VAS exhaustion wasn't much of an issue for Linux machines until they hit ~32GB of ram).

That said, I misread his post and didn't notice the specific model 🙂

 

[MikhailT]

I read the link to the apple site about SL's new processing capabilities. What I came away with was:

1) Current macbook pros can only run 32 bit applications because the laptop can only carry 4 GB of RAM.

2) With SL, 64 bit applications can be run which accesses more RAM.

So does this mean that old unibody macbook pros cannot run 64 bit applications at this time because of their 4 GB RAM limit? Also, since I don't know the intricacies of what 64 bit applications actually are, what would the consequences be of not being able to run them?

Memory has nothing to do with 64bit. Get that out of your head, because it is the wrong thing to assume.

It has to do with the CPU and its ability to process 64bit instructions which is twice the size of 32bit instructions.

You can have same 2GB of RAM in a 32bit or 64bit machine. it has nothing to do with memory again. What you can't have is 32bit processor in a 64bit machine. Therefore everything is related to the CPU.

If you have an Intel Core 2 Duo or above, you already have a 64bit processor and can run Snow Leopard just perfectly fine.

The only issue with memory is that memory address space itself can be larger than a 32bit instruction can handle, thus a 64bit machine is needed to be able to handle the address of any memory size larger than 3.2GB.

Snow Leopard is not about 64bit, it is more than that. You are going to get more benefits from GCD/OpenCL than you will from 64bit CPU.

The reason Apple HAS to do a 64bit OS as soon as possible is because typical memory capacity is going to increase for all computers over time. Remember, it was only 2-3 years ago the typical memory usage is only 2GB. Now all desktop and laptops' default size is 4gb. 2-3 years from now, we should see 8GB as default. The only way to use that is to use a 64bit OS.

Leopard right now can do 4gb or more by using a hack called PAE, Physical Address Extension. Look it up yourself to use how it works.

 

[MikhailT]

Either that page is wrong or the page I read a while ago is wrong. I heard it at 16 TB.

No you confused it with another software or hardware limitation, NTFS has a max of 16TB IIRC and MBR itself is maxed out at 2TB, google 16TB and you'll see all kinds of hardware limitation not related to 64bit.

Look here for 16 exabyte conversions which is 16.8 million TiB and 17.2 billion GiB.
http://www.unitjuggler.com/convert-memory-from-EiB-to-GiB.html

Even Apple's 64bit Snow Leopard site said the same thing, 16 Billion GB = 16 Exabyte. What they said is that SL has a limit of 16TB, which is most likely because of the limitation of the HFS+, not 64bit again.

 

[Slightly Hyphy]

Memory has nothing to do with 64bit. Get that out of your head, because it is the wrong thing to assume.

It has to do with the CPU and its ability to process 64bit instructions which is twice the size of 32bit instructions.

You can have same 2GB of RAM in a 32bit or 64bit machine. it has nothing to do with memory again. What you can't have is 32bit processor in a 64bit machine. Therefore everything is related to the CPU.

If you have an Intel Core 2 Duo or above, you already have a 64bit processor and can run Snow Leopard just perfectly fine.

The only issue with memory is that memory address space itself can be larger than a 32bit instruction can handle, thus a 64bit machine is needed to be able to handle the address of any memory size larger than 3.2GB.

Snow Leopard is not about 64bit, it is more than that. You are going to get more benefits from GCD/OpenCL than you will from 64bit CPU.

The reason Apple HAS to do a 64bit OS as soon as possible is because typical memory capacity is going to increase for all computers over time. Remember, it was only 2-3 years ago the typical memory usage is only 2GB. Now all desktop and laptops' default size is 4gb. 2-3 years from now, we should see 8GB as default. The only way to use that is to use a 64bit OS.

Leopard right now can do 4gb or more by using a hack called PAE, Physical Address Extension. Look it up yourself to use how it works.

Sorry I am still learning about computers and have a long way to go. I'm having a tough time understanding some of the lingo on the apple site. I'm confused on what this means:

"Today’s Mac computers can hold up to 32GB of physical memory, but the 32-bit applications that run on them can address only 4GB of RAM at a time."

From this link: http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/

 

[Tallest Skil]

Sorry I am still learning about computers and have a long way to go. I'm having a tough time understanding some of the lingo on the apple site. I'm confused on what this means:

"Today’s Mac computers can hold up to 32GB of physical memory, but the 32-bit applications that run on them can address only 4GB of RAM at a time."

From this link: http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/

Today's Macs can hold far more than that; it's just not "economically feasible" yet, so Apple ignores it... for everything but benchmarks. 😉

32-bit processes can't "see" more than 4GB of RAM. Think of it that way. It's a limitation of the file address size of 32-bit computing.

 

[MikhailT]

Sorry I am still learning about computers and have a long way to go. I'm having a tough time understanding some of the lingo on the apple site. I'm confused on what this means:

"Today’s Mac computers can hold up to 32GB of physical memory, but the 32-bit applications that run on them can address only 4GB of RAM at a time."

From this link: http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/

There's nothing to apologize for. Unlike other people, you are taking the time to learn and understand.

Each 32bit application or process can only read up to 32bit address space of memory, so 4GB of RAM for each application. It is part of the PAE, it can give 64GB of RAM for the OS which uses a mapping table to give each application its own "virtual" address block which points to another memory block that can go up to 4GB. Which is why Leopard can have 32GB of physical memory but only 4GB logical memory block for each application or process. A 64bit OS doesn't need to have the PAE hack to switch out 4GB of logical memory block for each application. Each application can have as much as it wants.

Read more at this wikipedia article.

 

[t0mat0]

Will be interesting to see how this pans out - Webkit 3D CSS transforms - will they come only to Snow Leopard (they're currently in the mobile Safari version)

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...sforms-coming-to-snow-leopard-not-leopard.ars

Apple has added 3D position and transform capabilities to WebKit, along with the 2D CSS-based transform abilities added some time ago. However, Apple allows access to these advanced 3D abilities only via Mobile Safari. If Apple enables the features on the desktop, they could kickstart the development of a whole new class of visually rich web applications... without Flash.

QuickTime X
Macrumors front page story - but they edited the post it seems due to Apple intervention.

The introduction of QuickTime X in Snow Leopard brings a streamlined interface lacking some of the functionality found in QuickTime 7. It has been reported that earlier Snow Leopard builds would prompt the user to install QuickTime 7 and automatically do so upon command when attempting to open a file supported only by QuickTime 7. The QuickTime 7 functionality, however, was reportedly incomplete in earlier builds. Build 10A394 now permits full installation of QuickTime 7 in this manner and offers the full suite of QuickTime 7 Pro features that currently require a separate paid license on Leopard and Tiger.

64 bit iTunes/iLife suite?
Will we see a 64-bit iTunes in Snow Leopard? Thread here discussing the possible scenarios

 

[danny_w]

The introduction of QuickTime X in Snow Leopard brings a streamlined interface lacking some of the functionality found in QuickTime 7. It has been reported that earlier Snow Leopard builds would prompt the user to install QuickTime 7 and automatically do so upon command when attempting to open a file supported only by QuickTime 7. The QuickTime 7 functionality, however, was reportedly incomplete in earlier builds. Build 10A394 now permits full installation of QuickTime 7 in this manner and offers the full suite of QuickTime 7 Pro features that currently require a separate paid license on Leopard and Tiger.

Remember that this is a beta, so any functionality that is in the beta may not be in the final product. I suspect that the Quicktime Pro features may well be for the beta only, and may not be present in the final version.

 

[Ironduke]

I see finder is still dumb in snow leopard, in 10.5 if I move a folder to the finders toolbar thats on a timecapsule it will change to a question markicon during general usage and it wont turn back until you click the said icon.

same in snow leopard, crap

 

[macintoshtoffy]

There's nothing to apologize for. Unlike other people, you are taking the time to learn and understand.

Each 32bit application or process can only read up to 32bit address space of memory, so 4GB of RAM for each application. It is part of the PAE, it can give 64GB of RAM for the OS which uses a mapping table to give each application its own "virtual" address block which points to another memory block that can go up to 4GB. Which is why Leopard can have 32GB of physical memory but only 4GB logical memory block for each application or process. A 64bit OS doesn't need to have the PAE hack to switch out 4GB of logical memory block for each application. Each application can have as much as it wants.

Read more at this wikipedia article.

Just a side note, Intel EMT64 has a 43bit address space 🙂 the problem start to get a little tricky with the pre-Santa Rosa which had a 32bit chipset with a 64bit processor.

IIRC PAE has a 36bit address space and uses bouncing to address the higher amounts of memory but the limitation is that it isn't transparent to applications or drivers and hence they need to be modified to support it.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Just a side note, Intel EMT64 has a 43bit address space 🙂 the problem start to get a little tricky with the pre-Santa Rosa which had a 32bit chipset with a 64bit processor.

IIRC PAE has a 36bit address space and uses bouncing to address the higher amounts of memory but the limitation is that it isn't transparent to applications or drivers and hence they need to be modified to support it.

Interesting info - good to know! That doesn't mean future implementations of EM64T are limited to 43 bits of address space, does it?

 

[macintoshtoffy]

Interesting info - good to know! That doesn't mean future implementations of EM64T are limited to 43 bits of address space, does it?

There is no limitation to Intel wishing to increase it; it was capped at 43bits to simplify and keep costs low; I can't think of a 64bit processor out there that implements full 64bit addressing.

 

[MikhailT]

Just a side note, Intel EMT64 has a 43bit address space 🙂 the problem start to get a little tricky with the pre-Santa Rosa which had a 32bit chipset with a 64bit processor.

IIRC PAE has a 36bit address space and uses bouncing to address the higher amounts of memory but the limitation is that it isn't transparent to applications or drivers and hence they need to be modified to support it.

Yes PAE is 36bit address space, thus 64GB limit.

As for EMT64/AMD64 address space, it's 40bit, not 43bit which is 1TB max per 64bit process. Source

 

[NathanCH]

I read yesterday on some forums that no FTP clients are working on the latest Snow Leopard build. Including: Espresso, Coda, CyberDuck, Transmit, and Forklift.

 

[MikhailT]

I read yesterday on some forums that no FTP clients are working on the latest Snow Leopard build. Including: Espresso, Coda, CyberDuck, Transmit, and Forklift.

They all need to be updated for SL. CyberDuck has alpha versions ready for SL.

 

[Jesse Smith]

On the Folders, to the left of every thing there is the

> Devices
> Places
> Search For

Does SL provide a way to get rid of those?

 

[MikhailT]

On the Folders, to the left of every thing there is the

> Devices
> Places
> Search For

Does SL provide a way to get rid of those?

Go to Finder Preferences, SideBar, uncheck all the options under Devices, Places, Search For and it'll disappear.

 

[glasserp]

On the Folders, to the left of every thing there is the

> Devices
> Places
> Search For

Does SL provide a way to get rid of those?

yes, there is a way in snow leopard.

 

[Jesse Smith]

Go to Finder Preferences, SideBar, uncheck all the options under Devices, Places, Search For and it'll disappear.

In 10.5 that only lets you get rid of the shortcuts, not the actual

> Devices
> Places
> Search For

which I don't use at all.

yes, there is a way in snow leopard.

Good. It's about time they added this!

 

[MikhailT]

In 10.5 that only lets you get rid of the shortcuts, not the actual

> Devices
> Places
> Search For

which I don't use at all.



Good. It's about time they added this!

I meant that's how you get rid of it in Snow Leopard. I was assuming you were asking in Snow Leopard since this is a SL Topic.

 

[glasserp]

Good. It's about time they added this!

agreed. never used the search for smart folders.

 

[ColinM]

I read yesterday on some forums that no FTP clients are working on the latest Snow Leopard build. Including: Espresso, Coda, CyberDuck, Transmit, and Forklift.

Coda works just fine for me in SL.

 

[elppa]

Small Tip, which I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere: In Dock Exposé, command clicking on an app adds its windows to the display.

Here's an example:
If you have Terminal Windows open in Dock Exposé, command clicking on the Finder shows Terminal + Finder windows, but not the Pages, Mail and Safari windows you also had open. Command click again on Pages to add the Pages windows. Command option click to remove an item you have added to the selection (Finder or Pages).

As usual, the shift key works to invoke slow motion mode.

The major flaw is if you want to remove the windows from the app you invoked Dock Exposé with, you can't, so in the above example you can't remove the terminal windows because you invoked Dock Exposé with terminal.

As far as I am aware in every previous version of Exposé you could only see windows from all application or windows from one application, so this is a nice addition.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Small Tip, which I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere: In Dock Exposé, command clicking on an app adds its windows to the display.

Here's an example:
If you have Terminal Windows open in Dock Exposé, command clicking on the Finder shows Terminal + Finder windows, but not the Pages, Mail and Safari windows you also had open. Command click again on Pages to add the Pages windows. Command option click to remove an item you have added to the selection (Finder or Pages).

As usual, the shift key works to invoke slow motion mode.

The major flaw is if you want to remove the windows from the app you invoked Dock Exposé with, you can't, so in the above example you can't remove the terminal windows because you invoked Dock Exposé with terminal.

As far as I am aware in every previous version of Exposé you could only see windows from all application or windows from one application, so this is a nice addition.

Wow. That does sound like a nice change.

 

[Peace]

When I hit cmd click it just opens the finder no matter what app is open.