Mac OS X Lion Notes: iOS Scroll Bars, Any Corner Resizing, Dock Changes

[kernkraft]

Now THIS is a non-issue. Will cmd+Tab still work? Or hot corners and finger gestures? All of them show running apps better, at least for me.

This is a 1000 parts puzzle and now we have about 10 pieces. Troll geeks already make insane assumptions. Pathetic.

Just out of curiosity - what do you base your assumptions about 10 out of 1000? It sounds insane.

 

[Philotech]

The indicator currently shows exactly whats running at any one time at an INSTANT glance - it does what it says on the tin ... how the **** then can taking this away and re-creating a new approach improve things?

I leave my Mac on standby overnight with several apps running, e.g. a word document ... so without word illuminated, how do I know if my document is open or not????? (not word, the document itself). Apple seem to be needlessly changing things just for the sake of change!!!!!

(1) Right now you wouldn't know because the blue dot only tells you that Word is running, but not that a document is open.
But (2) why would you want to know? If you open Word tomorrow, it opens where you left it, ie with the document if you left it with it or without otherwise. It just doesn't matter if this is "the same" document or a "reopened" document.

 

[Takeo]

So making the scroll bars smaller and harder to grab is a good idea?

Good point. In a touch-based OS where you always just touch anywhere to scroll... the scrollbar as disappearing indicator (and only an indicator) makes sense. In a mouse-based OS it might not make as much sense. Maybe Apple is assuming that all Max OS X users scroll using either a scroll wheel or magic mouse / trackpad now and never actually grab the scrolling thumb. I don't think that's a safe assumption.

 

[KnightWRX]

Maybe you have a good example, but I can't think of a specific situation where I need to know exactly where I am in a document 100% of the time. The only one that I could think of is if you are tremendously zoomed into a document where you can't recognize where you are by the content of the document vs. the scrollbar. In which case you would need to scroll anyway because you would be navigating somewhere else (because you are done with the section).

GL

Horizontal scrolling is one example. Do you think of scrolling horizontally all the time ? What if there is more content there ? Is there even more content there ?

As for vertical scrolling, I use it as an indicator of how much there is left to read. Do I stop at this paragraph to go do something or can I easily finish reading the entire page ? Again, just a nice quick visual indication of how much there is left.

It is a step backwards as far as usability goes, I didn't say it was a show stopper. Same for the lights. It's a step backwards in visual cues, doesn't mean it's a showstopper problem.

Windows, Linux have all had usability problems all these years, even OS X and no one died because of it. It just seems counter-intuitive to introduce new ones for no good reason.

 

[MrCrowbar]

Soo... I don't know where in my document I currently am unless I place the mouse on the scrollbar area os scroll around?

I don't know whether the big apps are already running or if I have to wait 2 minutes for them to start before I can edit files with them?

 

[Philotech]

Noone said it would be faster. Faster is not a conceptual issue but a question of hardware and optimizing the system.

This is about the conception of apps retaining their state.

So programs (such as MS Word, Photoshop etc) are now considered Apps are they!!!! Apple ****ing things up as usual ... for ****s sake, if it aint broke, dont fix it!!!

Sorry, that's incomprehensible. Or are you going for the point me calling Word an "app" instead of a proper "application"?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Where is that bar? In the top bar, there are very few icons only showing, essentially, only music playing, active location feature maybe one or two others (I'm still on iOS 3.2 on my iPad, so I can't check).
The app switcher invoked by the home button does NOT show what apps are running, that's a misconception.

'multitasking bar'? After clicking the home button twice? It doesn't show programs that are actively running. The programs could be running or suspended. I wonder what the difference is and what weight each entry on the 'multitask bar' has. Pity there isn't a 'top' analog or 'activity monitor' for the iPhone.

I remember my Windows Mobile phone and how it would kill itself with all of the programs 'running' at the same time. They would drink memory and eventually suffocate the device. 'Killing' them took a circuitous route through the system menus to get there and free up resources. I hated Windows Mobile because of that and so many other glitches and features that I couldn't use.

 

[springerj]

No more "running"

Getting rid of the concept of running is long overdue. When apps aren't actually being used, their memory is swapped out and they consume no CPU cycles. Are they still running? Who cares? I think apps should just fade away from lack of use, and pop back to life when needed. Sounds like that's where it's headed. Will still need a way to force quit or restart malfunctioning apps, but most of the time the OS should just take care of it without me even thinking about it.

 

[iSee]

I definitely want to know what is running! NOT COOL

You can't tell that from the dock now. You can only see a fraction of what's actually running on the dock. Take a look at "All Processes" in Activity Monitor.

 

[marksman]

I agree - maybe they're trying to come up with a better notification system because the little light at the bottom can be difficult to notice especially for new comers to the Mac platform.

I have had my macbook pro for over 3 years now, and I never noticed those lights until I saw this article.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Good point. In a touch-based OS where you always just touch anywhere to scroll... the scrollbar as disappearing indicator (and only an indicator) makes sense. In a mouse-based OS it might not make as much sense. Maybe Apple is assuming that all Max OS X users scroll using either a scroll wheel or magic mouse / trackpad now and never actually grab the scrolling thumb. I don't think that's a safe assumption.

Right. How many times do people want to go to the top of a document/screen fast or the bottom? To remember some complicated 'gesture' for a trackpad or magic mouse is rather classist, especially for those that don't have either...

 

[fcortese]

Getting rid of the concept of running is long overdue. When apps aren't actually being used, their memory is swapped out and they consume no CPU cycles. Are they still running? Who cares? I think apps should just fade away from lack of use, and pop back to life when needed. Sounds like that's where it's headed. Will still need a way to force quit or restart malfunctioning apps, but most of the time the OS should just take care of it without me even thinking about it.

Thanks for the explanation I was wondering what this new feature with apps meant on practical terms. I do like the idea of being able to size windows from any corner, but how about sides as well-or will that make it to Windows-like?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

You can't tell that from the dock now. You can only see a fraction of what's actually running on the dock. Take a look at "All Processes" in Activity Monitor.

But Activity Monitor is the 5 foot view and shows every little thing that is running. People don't normally need that kind of detail.

I remember from my VAX VMS days that the operating system would differentiate between running, waiting, stalled (I believe) and swapped states. Granted it's been a long time since VMS crawled the earth...

Having some kind of app that ran and showed the current state of the application space wouldn't be a bad idea... As mentioned above though, the idea of the operating system deciding when to restart a 'stuck' app could be problematic, especially if it did it 'auto-magically' and in the background. But that gets into design of an operating system and I'd like some notice that something flipped out and had to be restarted but someone else might not care. Different strokes...

 

[Lord Bodak]

And push notification is just a crude hack for systems that don't support preemptive multi-tasking.

Why are we going back to 80s computing ? Why are people even welcoming this ?

Thank you. We spent the 90s waiting for desktop OSes to start supporting preemptive multitasking, and now because of the iPhone people want to go back to what we had before.

 

[springerj]

Just out of curiosity - what do you base your assumptions about 10 out of 1000? It sounds insane.

She's right. It's a new major release. There will probably be about a thousand improvements, like the other releases. Many not visible to us end users.

 

[christian_k]

This is really interesting, bring these items together.

1. SSD hard drives in new mac book air
2. Mac App Store guidelines that applications must not generate excessive heat
3. No application open indicator in the dock
4. No flash plug in installed.

(...)
n you just click on the icon and go right back to where you were.

Mac OS X developers in future will be expected to spend a lot of time fine tuning applications to make sure that the performance is acceptable. This will have great benefits for the user - as they will really start to see the performance from their computers, rather than have it sucked up by lazy coding of applications that needlessly use too many processor cycles or memory (yes flash plug in, i'm looking directly at you).

There will always be applications that use 100% of the cpu (or nearly 100%). These are not "lazy coded" but simply expected to finish as fast as possible. When you render a movie with a 3D renderer you want results and you want them quick. Battery drain is a minor problem....

Christian

 

[iCole]

Thank you. We spent the 90s waiting for desktop OSes to start supporting preemptive multitasking, and now because of the iPhone people want to go back to what we had before.

But why wouldn't you be able to multitask? You can clearly see in the presentation that multitasking actually improves. The guy has multiple windows open, swaps between fullscreen apps screens, ... thats multitasking.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

She's right. It's a new major release. There will probably be about a thousand improvements, like the other releases. Many not visible to us end users.

Some will seem awkward at first too. I remember getting used to tabbed browsing and now take it for granted and when on an older browser, just hate it. Same for wheel mice... Heck, the magic mouse is so cool, does it work with Windows? But I can't get the hang of the Magic Trackpad... I tried it and now it sits in its box on my desk.

Whatever Apple puts out, we will probably all buy and over time probably learn to love it, if not like it and live with it...

 

[twilson]

imagine you have a kitchen and whenever you take something out of your shelf, it will stay on the kitchen desk.

you can not put it back.

Bad analogy, and not that relevant. Although, in this case doing a Cmd+Q or when the system needs more resources would cause the app to "freeze dry" and quit, freeing up memory ONLY WHEN NEEDED.

i'm sorry, but in my head this creates a very stressfull feeling of not being able to control the situation.

The point is you don't NEED to. iOS has already proven this.

imagine a lightbulb is always switched on, simply because you don't have switches to switch it off.

let's waste energy! why not, it doesn't cost much! who needs to switch off a light?

Again, bad analogy. The "lightbulb" in this app scenario is ON/Suspended (OFF)/OFF. It has three states, NOT two, and that's basically where everyone is going wrong with their views on this.

the new apple way will then be to unscrew the light bulb to switch the program off (kill task).

why a switch, when you can leave the light on all the time?

Except an unscrewed lightbulb does not retain it's state, another failing in you bad analogy.

A slightly better, although not great, analogy would be. You get a piece of paper out to write on it. You only have so much room on your desk, so to continue work on something else you have to put that piece of paper away.

When you come back to get that piece of paper out it isn't suddenly blank is it? It's that same piece of paper in the exact same state as when you left it. That's how this suspending will work.

Geeks need to get over their god complex of NEEDING ultimate control (I know somewhat ironic in this situation) and just accept.

 

[Jon the Heretic]

Multi

Where is that bar? In the top bar, there are very few icons only showing, essentially, only music playing, active location feature maybe one or two others (I'm still on iOS 3.2 on my iPad, so I can't check).
The app switcher invoked by the home button does NOT show what apps are running, that's a misconception.

iOS 3.2 doesn't have the multitasking bar (or any multitasking). It came with iOS 4.0. You will see it with iOS4.2 on your iPad next month. Unlike Apple's implementation of Cut/paste which was insanely great, the multitasking bar in iOS kind of sucks. I find it hard to believe Apple couldn't have come up with something better given the beautiful finish of the rest of iOS.

Point made is: Apple shows the state of running apps on iOS 4.0; why does it make sense to drop this from the MacOS X Dock when the OS being copied (iOS 4.x) does make the distinction between running and not running?

 

[twilson]

Good point. In a touch-based OS where you always just touch anywhere to scroll... the scrollbar as disappearing indicator (and only an indicator) makes sense. In a mouse-based OS it might not make as much sense. Maybe Apple is assuming that all Max OS X users scroll using either a scroll wheel or magic mouse / trackpad now and never actually grab the scrolling thumb. I don't think that's a safe assumption.

But it's not so much MOUSE, as it is multi-touch trackpad. All MacBooks support at least 2-finger scrolling, and all the demos of Lion so far made use of two finger scrolling. You never need to touch the "scrollbars". All they are for is to convey your current position within the overall list.

 

[jeznav]

Getting rid of the concept of running is long overdue. When apps aren't actually being used, their memory is swapped out and they consume no CPU cycles. Are they still running? Who cares? I think apps should just fade away from lack of use, and pop back to life when needed. Sounds like that's where it's headed. Will still need a way to force quit or restart malfunctioning apps, but most of the time the OS should just take care of it without me even thinking about it.

This is basically how iOS works. You can run a lot of applications and applications that are being idle are state saved, suspended or even terminated to make more room for ram for other applications and also not waste CPU cycles.

So if I were to work on a Pages document, do some surfing, watch a movie then play some games, then work on a movie, play some more ram consuming games, then I realized that I was supposed to work on a document, the OS will launch Pages and continue what I was working on. This experience will be seamless to the users.

Most users don't even quit applications anyway. Though they click on the red X button but not really realize that its still running in the background.

--

Again, this is what I had predicted how computers will work in the future. No longer are the days where you fiddle and serve to it to make things work. Computers will serve you to get to your work efficiently as possible.

 

[skunk]

What if you want to jump to half way down a very long document?

 

[twilson]

Thank you. We spent the 90s waiting for desktop OSes to start supporting preemptive multitasking, and now because of the iPhone people want to go back to what we had before.

Did you, I had that back in 1985 on the Amiga. Stupid Windows took ages to catch up.

 

[twilson]

That is a step backwards. Right now, they provide a visual cue full time. If I have to move/scroll whatever to get the same information, we have gone back, not forward.

But "where you are" is wholly irrelevant for a screen full of information. Surely "the actual information" (i.e. what's being displayed) is more important as there is no benefit your position?