Mac OS X Lion Set for July Debut Priced at $29.99, Mac App Store Exclusive

[KnightWRX]

Yeah, it is four GB. This isn't a new OS. This is just an update or an add-on to Snow Leopard.

That's patently false. The reason it's 4GB is probably all of the following :

- No Rosetta, so no fat binaries for every library on the system (PPC + Intel)
- No multi-lingual support (you'll get whatever your Mac App Store preferences makes you get as far as languages go).
- No printer drivers (they'll just download themselves).
- No more free Xcode, and it sure ain't included in the download.

Arch Linux fits under 1 GB with a full X environnement. There's no reason Apple can't fit OS X in 4 GB. Now, their download method is anything but convenient (HP-UX I can get on .iso's from HP's site. Same for Solaris. Same for any Linux stuff, which is also available as a "netinstaller" too if you want that). Apple is late to the "download your OS!" game in the Unix world and they've managed to make it confusing as it stands.

The price sure is right, except there's the hanging question of family packs. Me and my GF don't share an iTunes ID. Do we both have to pay ? Do I have to log in with mine on her computer ? Can I copy the files over ? Convoluted and confusing.

Let's hope the "Upgrade on day One" comment has value and that they just plan on shipping Lion through the Mac App Store earlier than the DVD release to stores. I'll just wait for the physical media version if that is the case.

Plus I don't want to waste 4 GB on a recovery partition. What a useless feature.

 

[AppleMacFinder]

XXI century

Is it a joke? or you guys really cannot download just 4GB ?
I have 14Mbps unlimited data plan for 19$ monthly fee,
that means I can download 4GB in less than one hour!
And I don't live in a large multi-million city, the population of my town is around 200,000!

That's very strange that in XXI century a lot of folks have such a slow Internet.

 

[honem]

Sorry folks! I haven't read all the other posts so I don't know if it's already been mentioned.

But for those with Data Caps Apple could alleviate a lot of their concerns by talking to the ISPs to get them to make it so downloading Lion doesn't cut into your Bandwidth cap.

I mean they already had to do something similar for the iPhone rollout right ?

 

[stephenwales]

Idiot

A 2nd service pack for $29 again, nice. SJ was right, people will buy anything.

How is the release a service pack?? Apples' version of a service pack is called a combo update, you know, all the previous updates rolled into one file???

This is a rather major release unless of course you didn't actually read the new features...and $30/£20...for FIVE licences...


idiot

 

[AppleMacFinder]

Sorry folks! I haven't read all the other posts so I don't know if it's already been mentioned.

But for those with Data Caps Apple could alleviate a lot of their concerns by talking to the ISPs to get them to make it so downloading Lion doesn't cut into your Bandwidth cap.

I mean they already had to do something similar for the iPhone rollout right ?

That is a good idea, but it is hard to imagine:
there are hundreds thousand of ISPs all over the world.

 

[honem]

That's very strange that in XXI century a lot of folks have such a slow Internet.

It's not really about slow internet sir.

It's about having Bandwidth Caps. NZ has them. Australia has them. Many countries around the world has them. There's even some ISPs in the States that are starting to introduce them.

Once you go over your cap you get charged overage charges. So depending on what time of the Month Lion hits and how close to your cycle reset date you are it could mean people would have to pay extra $$$ on top of the charge to buy Lion.

For example mine resets on the 23rd. After that I am charge $2 / GB. That means if Lion falls at the wrong time it could cost me $8 on top of the $39.95 to buy it.

 

[honem]

That is a good idea, but it is hard to imagine:
there are hundreds thousand of ISPs all over the world.

Yes there are.

But are how many of those have Bandwidth caps ? Ones so restrictive that it may discourage someone from downloading 4GB of a Lion Disc Image ?

Even if there isn't a comprehensive list out there they still have month before they put it on the App store for downloads.

In that time they could put a page up on the Apple website that you get to from the page telling you about getting it from the App store. It could be "Does your ISP have caps?" page and ask for the contact details of that ISP and the details of the bandwith caps.

And before you say something like this can't be pulled at the last minute let me remind you when the Mac was first shipped they only got the Boot Rom and Operating systems to properly boot without errors 17 minutes before the couriers arrive to ship it to the manufacturing plant.

 

[paulsalter]

Is it a joke? or you guys really cannot download just 4GB ?
I have 14Mbps unlimited data plan for 19$ monthly fee,
that means I can download 4GB in less than one hour!
And I don't live in a large multi-million city, the population of my town is around 200,000!

That's very strange that in XXI century a lot of folks have such a slow Internet.

yes, it is shocking that not everywhere has super fast broadband

many places here have slow speeds outside of the towns/cities and there are caps in place also

i am lucky to get a 1Mbps connection and it would take 18+ hours to download (and if the connection drops, which it does, would it resume or would i have to start again)

and before anyone asks, no, i cannot change provider and get a faster speed

 

[BLACKFRIDAY]

How clicking download is any hard than keep putting DVD in and out a tower?

What if something messes up and I need to archive and install?

What if I need to repair disk which cannot be done otherwise?

There's a limit when you make things simple and easy for users. Just don't make them so simple that you end up limiting the overall functionality.

I don't know. I feel sad about this. I am sure Apple is getting rid of the terminal in 2013.

 

[iBug2]

That's patently false. The reason it's 4GB is probably all of the following :

- No Rosetta, so no fat binaries for every library on the system (PPC + Intel)
- No multi-lingual support (you'll get whatever your Mac App Store preferences makes you get as far as languages go).
- No printer drivers (they'll just download themselves).
- No more free Xcode, and it sure ain't included in the download.

Arch Linux fits under 1 GB with a full X environnement. There's no reason Apple can't fit OS X in 4 GB. Now, their download method is anything but convenient (HP-UX I can get on .iso's from HP's site. Same for Solaris. Same for any Linux stuff, which is also available as a "netinstaller" too if you want that). Apple is late to the "download your OS!" game in the Unix world and they've managed to make it confusing as it stands.

The price sure is right, except there's the hanging question of family packs. Me and my GF don't share an iTunes ID. Do we both have to pay ? Do I have to log in with mine on her computer ? Can I copy the files over ? Convoluted and confusing.

Let's hope the "Upgrade on day One" comment has value and that they just plan on shipping Lion through the Mac App Store earlier than the DVD release to stores. I'll just wait for the physical media version if that is the case.

Plus I don't want to waste 4 GB on a recovery partition. What a useless feature.

What 4GB recovery partition? And what does that have anything to do with the Lion install? It's a feature of Lion. So you'll have to have a recovery partition when you use Lion, and it's 800MB's, not 4GB's.

About you and your GF, yes you can login with your ID on her machine's app store, and download the installer, obviously. App Store downloads the purchased content on every computer which is logged in using the purchaser ID. Although I have no idea if doing that complies with the EULA, since after you download the OS for her computer, she'll change the ID.

Also, quite "funny" comment on "no more free Xcode". The OS costs 100$ less, and XCode is 4$, so the whole thing is 95$ less than before.

 

[harlem]

Serious question: 20% of my company now run Mac. How am I supposed to do a group license buy, if I have to do it through the Mac App Store? Kind of a pain in the butt.

Apple only cares about the masses, your screwed and so are lots of other people whom own a company and relied on Apple.

Lets face it Apple is no longer a company that makes top of the line hard core computers for the prof. They turned into a company that focuses on making toys like pink ipods and over-hyped ipads.

Seriously on yesterday's WWDC 2011 this guy was actually showing off Phtotbooth talking about how amazing it is that the birds fly in a circle around his head...crowd goes wild! Next he's showing how in photobooth you can make your eyes look bigger...crowd goes wild. LMAO!

Tell me its not a toy company, Lion is filled with crap and other useless apps, unless your a 12y/o then you love it.

I seriously doubt that i'll be sticking to Apple for my next computer

 

[iBug2]

Apple only cares about the masses, your screwed and so are lots of other people whom own a company and relied on Apple.

Lets face it Apple is no longer a company that makes top of the line hard core computers for the prof. They turned into a company that focuses on making toys like pink ipods and over-hyped ipads.

Seriously on yesterday's WWDC 2011 this guy was actually showing off Phtotbooth talking about how amazing it is that the birds fly in a circle around his head...crowd goes wild! Next he's showing how in photobooth you can make your eyes look bigger...crowd goes wild. LMAO!

Tell me its not a toy company, Lion is filled with crap and other useless apps, unless your a 12y/o then you love it.

I seriously doubt that i'll be sticking to Apple for my next computer

Apple has always showed off the stuff like Photobooth effects in their demo's. So it's not something "new". When Apple didn't have iToys (as you call them) they were showing these things off. So that has absolutely nothing to do with iDevices.

How fast do people forget Phil Schiller standing in front of a theme park ride while video chatting with Jobs.

 

[iBug2]

i am lucky to get a 1Mbps connection and it would take 18+ hours to download (and if the connection drops, which it does, would it resume or would i have to start again)

Probably every kind of download has had resume for the past 7-8 years or so.

 

[KnightWRX]

What 4GB recovery partition? And what does that have anything to do with the Lion install? It's a feature of Lion. So you'll have to have a recovery partition when you use Lion, and it's 800MB's, not 4GB's.

Why would I want to waste space on my Hard drive for that ? I don't have to have anything, I'll just go into disk utility and scrap it. And how are you supposed to install 4 GB worth of stuff from a 750 MB partition ? Something doesn't jive here. If they can compress a full Lion install into 750MB, why make us download 4 GB of stuff ? Or is the recovery partition unable to actually "cleanly reinstall" in case the OS is scrapped on the main partition ?

Useless feature is useless.

About you and your GF, yes you can login with your ID on her machine's app store, and download the installer, obviously.

I don't want to do that. First, I don't want her charging stuff on my CC even if by mistake and 2nd, I don't want to download Lion twice as my Internet is capped. So that's a no-go right there.

App Store downloads the purchased content on every computer which is logged in using the purchaser ID. Although I have no idea if doing that complies with the EULA, since after you download the OS for her computer, she'll change the ID.

Convoluted and confusing. Like I said.

Also, quite "funny" comment on "no more free Xcode". The OS costs 100$ less, and XCode is 4$, so the whole thing is 95$ less than before.

XCode being free was what brought many hobbyist into Mac developement. It's just an added barrier. Not everyone needed to pay 129$ for the OS, it was mostly included in the price of the Mac, and also XCode was given to every Mac purchaser on the media included in the box.

Seems this trend is going away and now there will be no way to write Objective-C code using the Cocoa frameworks without first giving money to Apple. Defend it all you want by justifying the low price, it's 5$ more than before.

 

[paulsalter]

Probably every kind of download has had resume for the past 7-8 years or so.

iOS ones from iTunes never have

get half way through downloading it from iTunes and the line drops, have to start again from the beginning

 

[0007776]

All the comments on here in relation to it taking an age to download on certain connections.

Specifically how long are we talking here ?

I'm not sure exactly, since I never download anything that big, but based on how long smaller files take I'd guess about 3 or 4 days of it running in the background assuming no long Internet outages.

Basically imagine downloading it over an EDGE connection, I get similar speeds on a good day.

 

[iBug2]

Why would I want to waste space on my Hard drive for that ? I don't have to have anything, I'll just go into disk utility and scrap it. And how are you supposed to install 4 GB worth of stuff from a 750 MB partition ? Something doesn't jive here. If they can compress a full Lion install into 750MB, why make us download 4 GB of stuff ? Or is the recovery partition unable to actually "cleanly reinstall" in case the OS is scrapped on the main partition ?

Useless feature is useless.

I don't know what happens when you scrap that partition. Lion may not boot, but I haven't tried it myself. But scrapping should be an option because I'd do the same as well.

I don't want to do that. First, I don't want her charging stuff on my CC even if by mistake and 2nd, I don't want to download Lion twice as my Internet is capped. So that's a no-go right there.

Convoluted and confusing. Like I said.

Then just copy the installer App, I just said you can download it if you want.
Downloading something is confusing? Copying something between computers is convoluted? Wow.

XCode being free was what brought many hobbyist into Mac developement. It's just an added barrier. Not everyone needed to pay 129$ for the OS, it was mostly included in the price of the Mac, and also XCode was given to every Mac purchaser on the media included in the box.


Seems this trend is going away and now there will be no way to write Objective-C code using the Cocoa frameworks without first giving money to Apple. Defend it all you want by justifying the low price, it's 5$ more than before.

No, it's 95$ less than before. For XCode you need OS X, for OS X you needed 129$. Simple as that. And unless you wanted to be left behind, you had to upgrade to the newest OS X and use the newest XCode. Someone who purchased a Mac back in 2005, and got XCode for free, couldn't use it for anything right now anyway, since that XCode wouldn't compile Apps for Leopard or SL. At some point every XCode user had to pay up for OS upgrade, which is far more cheaper now.

Right now it's only more expensive for people who get it with a Mac purchase and never ever upgrade their Mac OS X. How many of those people do you think there are?

 

[iBug2]

iOS ones from iTunes never have

get half way through downloading it from iTunes and the line drops, have to start again from the beginning

I was talking about computers, which is what you need to get Lion.

 

[G4DP]

How is the release a service pack?? Apples' version of a service pack is called a combo update, you know, all the previous updates rolled into one file???

This is a rather major release unless of course you didn't actually read the new features...and $30/£20...for FIVE licences...


idiot

Nice way to show your level of intelligence.

It is another service pack, Just like everything since 10.0 has been. The only difference has been the level of change. Mac OS 10.0 was the last 'NEW' operating system from Apple. The updates of 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6 and now 10.7 are nothing more than giant service packs.

If you think your getting a new OS then your Apples ideal customer. Just like those that thought 10.6 was 'NEW'. 10.6 and 10.7 are making Leopard what it should have been from the start. They just couldn't be bothered to get it right because they were concentrating on milking the flock with the icrap.

 

[paulsalter]

I was talking about computers, which is what you need to get Lion.

And ?

I was talking computers, downloading from iTunes

 

[iBug2]

And ?

I was talking computers, downloading from iTunes

No, you were talking about phones downloading from iTunes.

Macs downloading from iTunes have resume. They always had it.

 

[paulsalter]

No, you were talking about phones downloading from iTunes.

Macs downloading from iTunes have resume. They always had it.

NO, I was talking about iTunes on my Mac

If I download iOS software from iTunes, it does not resume, you cannot pause it, it gets interrupted you need to start again

Media you download does resume, but not the OS

 

[iBug2]

Nice way to show your level of intelligence.

It is another service pack, Just like everything since 10.0 has been. The only difference has been the level of change. Mac OS 10.0 was the last 'NEW' operating system from Apple. The updates of 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6 and now 10.7 are nothing more than giant service packs.

If you think your getting a new OS then your Apples ideal customer. Just like those that thought 10.6 was 'NEW'. 10.6 and 10.7 are making Leopard what it should have been from the start. They just couldn't be bothered to get it right because they were concentrating on milking the flock with the icrap.

Well if your definition of new is "new architecture", then pretty much all OS updates are service packs, including most Win and Linux releases so the whole thing loses its meaning.

 

[KnightWRX]

I don't know what happens when you scrap that partition. Lion may not boot, but I haven't tried it myself. But scrapping should be an option because I'd do the same as well.

If Lion requires the recovery partition to boot, something is badly broken. I doubt that is the case.

Then just copy the installer App, I just said you can download it if you want.
Downloading something is confusing? Copying something between computers is convoluted? Wow.

Moreso than simply inserting the disc in the drive and booting. Plus, like you said, there's the whole question of the EULA and thus brings that method's legality into question.

There were no questions with the family pack.

No, it's 95$ less than before. For XCode you need OS X, for OS X you needed 129$.

Nope, never paid 129$ for OS X in my life and always had OS X legally. XCode and the OS were included with new Macs. XCode was included in the 29$ of Snow Leopard. It's now 5$ more. The fact they lowered the OS price doesn't mean squat in the equation. It's now more expensive by 5$ to get into Mac development than it was before (new Mac + 5$ vs new Mac).

Defend it all you want, it's 5$ more than before. There used to be no price tag attached to XCode, now there is one.

 

[iBug2]

NO, I was talking about iTunes on my Mac

If I download iOS software from iTunes, it does not resume, you cannot pause it, it gets interrupted you need to start again

Media you download does resume, but not the OS

Oh, my mistake. Yes those downloads don't have resume. But anyway, App Store has resume. And Lion will be on App Store, so Lion download will have resume.