Mac OS X Quicktime, OpenGL Enhancements Coming?

[bigwig]

OpenGL was developed by SGI as a successor to their IRIS GL. It's an open standard, which is why Apple uses it. It's a 3D graphics API, which you can implement on any OS...Apple first used it in OS 8, which of course has nothing to do with Unix.
--Eric

It should be noted that DirectX exists in usable form because Microsoft joined a consortium with SGI to develop an advanced graphics API. From a 1997 press release:

"The Fahrenheit project will create a suite of application programming interfaces (APIs) for the Microsoft DirectX multimedia architecture on the Windows operating system and the Silicon Graphics UNIX-based platform. Fahrenheit will incorporate Microsoft Direct3D and DirectDraw APIs with Silicon Graphics complementary technologies such as OpenGL, OpenGL Scene Graph and OpenGL Optimizer. The Fahrenheit architecture will be the basis for innovative third-party graphics and visualization applications including Internet, games, business, digital content creation, CAD/CAM, medical and scientific applications."

Fahrenheit was a bust, but not before Microsoft stole a bunch of SGI's work for DirectX. DirectX was horrid before then, both from a useability and performance standpoint, but the version of DirectX after Fahrenheit was shuttered (DX6?) was a quantum leap ahead. SGI, of course, got no credit for it, and this deal (one of several) with the devil augured in SGI's long downward slide.

 

[aLoC]

I don't really get what this means...Like I know quite a bit about computers, but this "open gl?" and other stuff....can somone explain to me what this REALLY means...

When programmers want to write a program that puts 3D stuff on the screen (such as a spaceship in a game) they don't program the apperance of the spaceship pixel by pixel.

They use some pre-written program code that comes with OS X called OpenGL that lets them draw entire triangles, cubes etc. at a time. It's easier for them, but it also means the speed of their program depends on how fast that pre-written program runs.

So it's exciting when Apple decides to put some effort in to speeding it OpenGL, because it means all your existing programs that use it (all your games for example) will potentially start going faster, even though the program code on the game CD hasn't changed since you bought it.

 

[JFreak]

I don't see PPC being dropped anytime soon.

Me neither. Apple still sells refurbished PPC hardware, and whatever Apple sells they have committed to support for at least 3 years. Therefore, we can take it as a fact that PPC support will be available in 2010.

Dropping G3 is another story; the chip lacks vector processing unit and can be considered obsolete. Even the current iLife pack does not fully support G3, so one can assume Leopard does not either. But that is because current Apple software seems to be requiring vector processing unit and not because G3 is old.

That said, I'm certain Apple will never drop G4 support "because it is old". Essentially G4 and G5 are the same (code-wise), so the big question is: how long Apple continues to support PPC? I would guess about 5 years.

 

[Xgreed]

Apple Job Posting

Take a look at the following Job posting:

http://jobs.apple.com/index.ajs?BID=1&method=mExternal.showJob&RID=4721&CurrentPage=5

"
Join a new high powered team to develop a cross platform web browser plugin for interactive media. You will be solving problems in performance, resource management, and scalability across radically different hardware and software architectures. Bring to bear your knowledge of video and audio processing and interactivity from the desktop to embedded devices implemented in C and various assembler languages. Work in complex source code and build management systems on multiple projects and targets.

Senior media engineer: 5+ years experience in video and/or audio system design and development required. Both desktop and embedded preferred. C and assembler required. C++ preferred. Unix required. OS X / Darwin a major plus. API design a major plus. Codec optimization a plus. Playback optimization experience a major plus.
"

I guess they are creating the next generation of Quicktime which could be direct competitor to Adobes Flash/Flex or Microsofts WPF/E.

This next generation of Quicktime might thus become Apples new cross-platform approach of the future. Think iTunes implemented as an Apollo application.

cheers
marc

 

[gregorsamsa]

Being a gamer, this sounds very promising & I can barely wait for June!

I don't see PPC being dropped anytime soon.

(Plus, I just got my lovely "iSight" iMac and I do not want to see it obsolete!)

I too think Apple won't drop PPC any time soon. But Mac games developers certainly will, at least some of them. Intel-only games are starting to come out now & this process is bound to accelerate over the next couple of years.

Once the Macs have been updated, & with Leopard out in June, I'll certainly be looking to buy an Intel Mac. However, I've no intention whatsoever of getting rid of my PPC Mac & I've no worries about it becoming obsolete (outside of playing said Intel-only games).

 

[Mac Kiwi]

Faster 3d app viewport refresh would be awesome.


I hope they have tweaked dual planes ability etc as well.


Sounds like some of the people who bought Quadros might just get on par performance after all.

 

[link92]

The developer previews run on PPC...

MS shipped at least one RC of Windows 2000 for Alpha before dropping support of it. Apple has done it before also, the developer previews of Rhapsody were available for x86.

What there are developer previews of is irrelevant.

 

[gnasher729]

Believe it or not, but XCode just does not work for big software projects. Even the new one that will be out with leopard lacks features necessary for big software development. Most open source projects use XCode, but most commercial software relies on more elaborate systems. I bet a lot of people are actually using visual studio on PCs and have some sorts of plugins to compile for OSX...

Could you quote a company that does _not_ use XCode? Just one, apart from Photoshop plug-in developers who are still stuck with CodeWarrior?

 

[Windowlicker]

I love iTunes as a music player and I've been using it since it was SoundJam MP, but cannot say anything good about it as a movie player. I hope this rumor is true because Apple needs to build up their video performance if they are going to poise themselves as a media content provider.

Word! iTunes is becoming far too massive. I understand the video feature only because they sell movies on iTS, but the video feature still sucks.

Three things for Quicktime:
- Full Screen support for basic version
- Playlists
- REAL subtitle support

Now, I know these features can be taken in use by using 3rd party software, but that's not what I want it to be. These two things are super easy for Apple to implement and they won't bload the software (Full Screen actually already excists). Having these features would finally let me free of VLC for example (it's pretty unstable on Intel when using a playlist -- as far as I'm concerned).

 

[J Radical]

Improvements are good, but if apple really wanted to compete with the windows world they would include real graphics hardware in their computers.

I'm talking mostly about the macbook, but even the MBP could do with an upgrade from the x1600- comparable dell machines kill it's graphics performance. The new 8 Core Mac Pros offer the fasted cpu available, but a mediocre graphics option with the x1900.

Graphics cards are the biggest bottle neck for the mac as a viable gaming platform. Also Direct X > OpenGl

Direct X 10 Crysis screens:

These are low res in game shots, check out the high res stuff HERE

 

[Digitalclips]

can anyone explain to me what this all means????

The answer is 42

 

[CoreWeb]

Improvements are good, but if apple really wanted to compete with the windows world they would include real graphics hardware in their computers.

I'm talking mostly about the macbook, but even the MBP could do with an upgrade from the x1600- comparable dell machines kill it's graphics performance. The new 8 Core Mac Pros offer the fasted cpu available, but a mediocre graphics option with the x1900.

Graphics cards are the biggest bottle neck for the mac as a viable gaming platform. Also Direct X > OpenGl

Direct X 10 Crysis screens:

These are low res in game shots, check out the high res stuff HERE

Did you take a look at the WWDC 06 video of OpenGL demonstration? It was done by ATI, and it was amazing. It had rain that looked real, buildings that looked real, items inside buildings that looked real, well... I think you get the picture.

Perhaps it isn't the engine DirectX vs. OpenGL, but instead the game developers?

 

[MrCrowbar]

Could you quote a company that does _not_ use XCode? Just one, apart from Photoshop plug-in developers who are still stuck with CodeWarrior?

Most people use Code Warrior. It's old, but so is lots of the code and it can be a pain in the ass to migrate everything. Wolfram Research for instance does not use Xcode, even if Apple showed on a keynote how easy it is to click the little checkbox and recompile for Intel.

The big downside of Xcode is that you can't use it if you want to make an application that runs on OSX and Windows. No one wants to have competely different environments for the same product.

 

[DaveTheGrey]

Did you take a look at the WWDC 06 video of OpenGL demonstration? It was done by ATI, and it was amazing.

Link? Anyone?

 

[Eidorian]

Link? Anyone?

ADC on iTunes - Session 200 - Graphics and Media State of the Union

 

[xUKHCx]

ADC on iTunes - Session 200 - Graphics and Media State of the Union

How do i find this? I changed my store to the US store but still couldn't find it, probably right under my nose.

 

[DaveTheGrey]

ADC on iTunes - Session 200 - Graphics and Media State of the Union

looks like I forgot my ADC on iTunes login password...

Edit:
actually I never had one

 

[Eidorian]

How do i find this? I changed my store to the US store but still couldn't find it, probably right under my nose.

Maybe Google?

Just a guess.

 

[DaveTheGrey]

Maybe Google?

Just a guess.

I think xUKHCx thought "ADC on iTunes" means, that he has to do a search for ADC in the iTunes store...

 

[Clive At Five]

Dropping G3 is another story; the chip lacks vector processing unit and can be considered obsolete. Even the current iLife pack does not fully support G3, so one can assume Leopard does not either. But that is because current Apple software seems to be requiring vector processing unit and not because G3 is old.

That's why I will soon take on the job of converting my G3 iMac (DV SE+!!!) into a fish tank... It should be pretty swanky... My only regret is losing dependable OS 9 support for those old-ass games... Believe it or not, my fiancee and I still love to play "Where in the USA is Carmen SanDiego?" and "Who wants to be a Millionaire?". Both fantastic games which *will* run on my G4 imac, but not well unless I boot into OS 9. Maybe someone will release a capable emulator sometime soon. *rolls eyes* Yeah right.

-Clive

 

[guzhogi]

Me neither. Apple still sells refurbished PPC hardware, and whatever Apple sells they have committed to support for at least 3 years. Therefore, we can take it as a fact that PPC support will be available in 2010.

Dropping G3 is another story; the chip lacks vector processing unit and can be considered obsolete. Even the current iLife pack does not fully support G3, so one can assume Leopard does not either. But that is because current Apple software seems to be requiring vector processing unit and not because G3 is old.

That said, I'm certain Apple will never drop G4 support "because it is old". Essentially G4 and G5 are the same (code-wise), so the big question is: how long Apple continues to support PPC? I would guess about 5 years.

I agree, the G3 is pretty obsolete considering a lot of stuff now needs vector processing. I don't see Apple dropping G4 & G5 support in 10.5 since they're still fast enough for the average consumer. Probably 10.6 will lose support for all PowerPC. As I said in a previous post, dropping PowerPC support and using only Intel will greatly simplify the code base of Mac OS X. And b/c of the simplified codebase, the Apple developers will be able to program faster. I don't know if this would mean Apple will release a new version of the Mac OS more frequently, or stay at the 1.5-2 year interval, but add more features in each versions. We'll just have to wait and see.

As for whether or not to use xCode, what features not in xCode do you need to write "big programs"? I tinker with xCode from time to time, but I don't know what "big programs" are and what they'd need.

 

[dashiel]

I guess they are creating the next generation of Quicktime which could be direct competitor to Adobes Flash/Flex or Microsofts WPF/E.

This next generation of Quicktime might thus become Apples new cross-platform approach of the future. Think iTunes implemented as an Apollo application.

nice find! god what a pita though, just as web dev was starting to conform to a single standard (i know it's not perfect, but if you were around in the 90's today looks like the promised land) we're going to get three, no make that four, rich internet app development tools. the permutations over front-end/back-end are going to be nuts...

 

[xUKHCx]

Maybe Google?

Just a guess.

I think xUKHCx thought "ADC on iTunes" means, the he has to do a search for ADC in the iTunes store...

As Dave said was just a bit confused, weird because i usually always search google as a first step, just the reference to iTunes threw me. Got it now thanks.

 

[ITR 81]

PPC support.

IMO:
G3 will lose support in 10.5, but might still run very very very slow.
10.6 no G3 support.
10.7 the pulling out of G4 support.
10.8 G4 support goes away.
10.9 the pulling out of G5 support.
11.0 no G5 support.

Even at the above rate of losing support you'll still piss folks off, but in a far lessor degree, then say axe it all in 10.7.

 

[Eidorian]

IMO:
G3 will lose support in 10.5, but might still run very very very slow.
10.6 no G3 support.
10.7 the pulling out of G4 support.
10.8 G4 support goes away.
10.9 the pulling out of G5 support.
11.0 no G5 support.

Even at the above rate of losing support you'll still piss folks off, but in a far lessor degree, then say axe it all in 10.7.

You do know that the development time for a new version of OS X is now around 2 years, right?