Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
It's just that for the sake of your customers' satisfaction that point should be when the hardware becomes incapable of running new software, not when you artificially make it obsolete.

But at what point should that be? People can keep hardware running for years. I doubt that anyone should be expected to accommodate people like that. After all should Apple have continued Classic support even though people still use it? I think not. I think that the timeline should be at max, the last PPC Applecare plan. Apple disagrees and that is there call. Again, people should have been buying those last PPC's knowing that they should be thinking Intel.

You have to draw the line somewhere. No matter where that is, someone will disagree with that position.
 
Because they know that if they write something specific that is only supported on SL, PPC users won't be able to use it, ever, because they can't install SL.

I don't think that worries many people. There is a lot of software that targets only one OS. It happened with Tiger, it happened with Leopard. There is a lot of software that is more concerned with whiz bang features than 100% compatibility for every one (Delicious Library comes to mind immediately).

I know you'll say but those people had the option of upgrading, even if the new OS was slow, but that's not always true. They either stuck it out with their old machine or bought a new one.

And PPC isn't a growth industry. I would even venture to say the market is already pretty small. All those hip young college kids aren't buying four year old PPC machines - they're buying Intel machines.

I mean, I guess I see why you're worried - developers take their cues from Apple and if Apple is throwing PPC on the fire, other developers will too. But you bought the machine at a fair price when it came out and got your money's worth since then. Tech changes, deal with it. I am not crying into my soup because Nintendo released a new DS and I can't get DSiWare titles.

I have switched four years ago and while I love Apple machines, mostly, I've come to realize that the reputation Apple zealots have isn't totally undeserved.
 
I'm on leopard but I gotta say, that sucks balls. What if you don't need ilife? Talk about force feeding.

Nobody is force feeding you anything. First, you are not forced into getting Snow Leopard and second, you could always buy Leopard now and Snow Leopard later. Apple built Snow Leopard as a improvement on Leopard - not Tiger.

The cost of the Mac Box set is 169 now and that probably will not change. You can just get Leopard for $129 of course adding on SL later would just make the cost almost the same anyway. You could always not install iLife of course.

But thats the way Apple is pricing Snow Leopard - as an upgrade to Leopard. If they would not have done their special pricing, they would have kept it at $120.
 
Why is it some cannot see the forrest through the trees?

You may be a PPC user today but what about next year? What if you came across a killer deal on craigslist for an Intel mini?

If you project yourself as "always" being a PPC user and never upgrading your computer then you should be very worried about Snow Leopard and beyond but then again we all knew in 2005 that PPC was no more.

If you do plan to upgrade your machine then you know you're going to be using an Intel based Mac and it makes most sense to want as good an OS running on Intel as possible to maximize your "bang for the buck"

You still win...but your gratification is delayed.
 
The real problem with OS X versus say WindowsXP/Vista/7 is that even if you don't upgrade XP to Vista, almost all new software will continue to work in XP and that will probably be true when Windows7 comes out as well. In fact, software designed for Windows95 will probably still work in XP fifteen years later while software for say OS9 won't work period today in OS X.
:: SNIP::

Actually this is not true to all software written in the WIN 95/98 days. I have tons of software that will not work on XP. They keep crashing even though I set it to be compatible to the OS. They still crash and they take the whole system down with them.

Hugh
 
A 6G space saving eh.I wonder how much more you could get after a custom install and removing some of those printer drivers etc.
Probably none. It looks like Apple is going to do some on demand printer driver service that will download drivers as needed for printers.
 
Shave the languages and you'll probably save a few hundred megs or more.


I wonder if Xslimmer will have an effect on shaving the 32-bit code from Snow Leopard Universal apps (32/64-bit) provided you of course had a 64-bit system.
 
Because they know that if they write something specific that is only supported on SL, PPC users won't be able to use it, ever, because they can't install SL.
Yeah, that's one thing if you are adding unnecessary graphical flourishes like cube transitions. It's another thing entirely if the OS specific code significantly increases the performance or feature set of your app.

Again - it's not that you shouldn't end support for older hardware at some point. It's just that for the sake of your customers' satisfaction that point should be when the hardware becomes incapable of running new software, not when you artificially make it obsolete.
This has little impact on a lot of the smaller third-party developers. As each new OS comes out there are more and more APIs at the developers fingertips. These APIs let you do things that would be very hard and time consuming to recreate on your own. If I am a developer that is looking at a few days vs a few months development time …you can kiss your old OS support goodbye.
 
I don't understand while people are up in arms about this transition, the writing has been on the wall for PowerPC for quite a while and honestly I surprised that Apple has supported dual formats for so long.
 
Why is it some cannot see the forrest through the trees?

You may be a PPC user today but what about next year? What if you came across a killer deal on craigslist for an Intel mini?

If you project yourself as "always" being a PPC user and never upgrading your computer then you should be very worried about Snow Leopard and beyond but then again we all knew in 2005 that PPC was no more.

If you do plan to upgrade your machine then you know you're going to be using an Intel based Mac and it makes most sense to want as good an OS running on Intel as possible to maximize your "bang for the buck"

You still win...but your gratification is delayed.

Oh geez, I think you have a brick wall in front of you, not a forrest or trees.

Why is it all INTEL people think a Mac Mini is faster than a late model Powermac G5?

So much for that killer deal on Craigslist, for ummmm, a DOWNGRADE! LOL

Nope, sorry, NEXT.....
 
While I am looking forward to putting SL on my imac, i think its entertaining with the PPC support dissapearing. Sure it sucks for those guys, but when vista came out, I am sure they were roasting Windows users that their new OS wouldnt run on old PC's....

:D
 
Oh geez, I think you have a brick wall in front of you, not a forrest or trees.

Why is it all INTEL people think a Mac Mini is faster than a late model Powermac G5?

So much for that killer deal on Craigslist, for ummmm, a DOWNGRADE! LOL

Nope, sorry, NEXT.....

False bravado. If you were that supremely confident in the speed of your "late model Powermac G5" you wouldn't be on here whining about getting shut out of the party.
 
False bravado. If you were that supremely confident in the speed of your "late model Powermac G5" you wouldn't be on here whining about getting shut out of the party.

Either way, unless they are using the dual Late G5 the 2009 Mac Mini is faster and even if they do have that model they are pretty comparable in their base state. Obviously you can upgrade both but the Mac Mini is a little harder to do that.
 
Actually this is not true to all software written in the WIN 95/98 days. I have tons of software that will not work on XP. They keep crashing even though I set it to be compatible to the OS. They still crash and they take the whole system down with them.

Hugh

The only things I run from back then are games and they mostly all work in compatibility mode, if not outright. In any case, even if a large percentage of Windows '95 era software fails in XP, 100% of OS9 software fails in Leopard so there's still no comparison. Basically, OS X and OS 9 have no relationship what-so-ever other than a few appearance issues and the Mac moniker. Classic was emulation software, not an actual feature of OS X.

In any case, Windows not only runs a LOT more older software, it also supports hardware a lot longer than OS X. Some things in Tiger were just "stripped" from Leopard. They STILL WORK in Leopard, but you have to copy the Kexts over manually. I'm talking about things like support for the Rage 128 card on older Macs. If you copy/install the Tiger kexts, they still work fine in Leopard. Apple purposely removes support to "encourage" you to buy more hardware from them. They don't make money on long term customers. They want more sales more often from you. Get the LATEST iPhone! Your 1st gen iPhone is only a couple of years old, but that's too old! Get the new one. You rechargeable battery is probably about ready to die anyway so you might as well put that $80 fee we'll charge you to change your battery for you towards a brand new iPhone instead! (I don't think "rolls eyes" quite conveys my feelings toward that philosophy of sucking every last drop of blood from a customer, but hey, it's the American way....)
 
Some food for thought

When I used to sell computers, I'd talk to each person I sold to, I would always tell them. "Once you go home have unboxed. You computer was just replaced, with a cheeper and faster model then what you just bought. I'm just too honest to my customers, and they would thank me for it.

Now they know it will continue to do what they want it to do. This is the very first thing that comes to mind when buying a computer....What are they going to put in a few months ........ How long will the hardware be supported (Hardware and Softwares).... Am I buying a model that is going to be fazed out or not, What is the current road map (ie How long are they going to support Old hardware vs Newer hardware). Do as much research on it before putting down those bones to pay for that computer.

In another thread a person stated that they just bought PowerPC G5 this year.... What was you thinking man. You should by know the current processor is Intel and not PPC by now. So now I do not few sorry for you. :/


As for Mac OS 10.7, I wouldn't be surprised that yes it does drop support for the Core Solo/Dual processor. But 10.7 is way far head to think about that now.

Hugh
 
The only things I run from back then are games and they mostly all work in compatibility mode, if not outright. In any case, even if a large percentage of Windows '95 era software fails in XP, 100% of OS9 software fails in Leopard so there's still no comparison. Basically, OS X and OS 9 have no relationship what-so-ever other than a few appearance issues and the Mac moniker. Classic was emulation software, not an actual feature of OS X.

In any case, Windows not only runs a LOT more older software, it also supports hardware a lot longer than OS X. Some things in Tiger were just "stripped" from Leopard. They STILL WORK in Leopard, but you have to copy the Kexts over manually. I'm talking about things like support for the Rage 128 card on older Macs. If you copy/install the Tiger kexts, they still work fine in Leopard. Apple purposely removes support to "encourage" you to buy more hardware from them. They don't make money on long term customers. They want more sales more often from you. Get the LATEST iPhone! Your 1st gen iPhone is only a couple of years old, but that's too old! Get the new one. You rechargeable battery is probably about ready to die anyway so you might as well put that $80 fee we'll charge you to change your battery for you towards a brand new iPhone instead! (I don't think "rolls eyes" quite conveys my feelings toward that philosophy of sucking every last drop of blood from a customer, but hey, it's the American way....)

Apple announced its plans to switch to intel 4 years ago this month and the first G5s debuted 6 years ago this month. I think its about time to stop catering to the Power PC with new operating systems and it is as good of a time as ever with an inexpensive OS upgrade that is designed to increase efficiency for a majority of its user base. Apple's successful growth didn't come until after the Intel transition. Not to mention that if someone really is holding out with a Power Mac G5 it's about time to move on to something more powerful. Here's the kicker though: If the machine still does what the user wants, then why would they need to do anything but keep using Tiger or Leopard and work with the machine until it doesn't meet their needs? A new OS coming out isn't going to make the machine any less usable. The G5s are still supported so what's the problem?

To add: The problem with Windows is that it has to support so much varying hardware and architectures. This is really not something anybody using Mac OS X wants to happen because we know it reduces the efficiency of the system and development can't move forward to take advantage of the newest technology when people complain that their 4 year old computer can't run all of the eye candy. Apple makes its money from the hardware and not the software.
 
As for Mac OS 10.7, I wouldn't be surprised that yes it does drop support for the Core Solo/Dual processor. But 10.7 is way far head to think about that now.

Hugh

Hugh we better get a jump on things then. 10.7 is only two years away so that means Apple has to give a hint as to what features they are working on next year at WWDC. Let's see in a couple of years.

Dollars 2 donuts you see a revamped UI
10.7 may be 64-bit only
and last but not least it will not support PPC :p
 
But at what point should that be? People can keep hardware running for years. I doubt that anyone should be expected to accommodate people like that. After all should Apple have continued Classic support even though people still use it? I think not. I think that the timeline should be at max, the last PPC Applecare plan. Apple disagrees and that is there call. Again, people should have been buying those last PPC's knowing that they should be thinking Intel.

You have to draw the line somewhere. No matter where that is, someone will disagree with that position.

And not a smart move? Time to grow up me thinks - or are you still complaining on a forum somewhere about lack of 10.6 for the 68000? Dropping PPC support eventually was inevitable. What would you suggest? That they keep supporting an obsolete platform until... when? The last G5 finally gurgles and dies?
Technology is moving on. Every new version of software that comes out has minimum requirements and if your machine simply isn't capable of running something, you don't get upset.

But on the other hand - you do get upset if your machine IS capable of running something but isn't allowed. If you run a 3D game and get low FPS, you realize your card is old and should be replaced if you want to run new things. But if the author of the game blocks you from installing it although you know your system would be capable of running it smoothly, you get pissed. Drop G5 support when it simply gets too weak to run things. If that's next year - fine by me. Just don't do it like this.

Really? Are Apple suddenly going to stop releasing 10.5 security updates or refuse telephone support or repairs for G5 owners? Where have they said this?
This topic is about SL not supporting PPC and that's what i was saying with that statement, as I already explained several times. It's hard to argue when people don't read your posts.

The answer is simple - Linux distros include the source code. You could compile it for your washing machine should you want to.
Well, Apple has the source code, why don't they compile it?

False bravado. If you were that supremely confident in the speed of your "late model Powermac G5" you wouldn't be on here whining about getting shut out of the party.
Of course he would be, it's precisely because he is confident in the speed of this machine yet isn't allowed to run SL that he's complaining.

Apple announced its plans to switch to intel 4 years ago this month and the first G5s debuted 6 years ago this month. I think its about time to stop catering to the Power PC with new operating systems and it is as good of a time as ever with an inexpensive OS upgrade that is designed to increase efficiency for a majority of its user base. Apple's successful growth didn't come until after the Intel transition. Not to mention that if someone really is holding out with a Power Mac G5 it's about time to move on to something more powerful.
I'm in no way arguing with the fact that the switch to Intel wasn't a good thing and that we should keep PPC for as long as possible, I'm saying we should keep it as long as it's capable of running stuff, that's only fair to the customers.

Here's the kicker though: If the machine still does what the user wants, then why would they need to do anything but keep using Tiger or Leopard and work with the machine until it doesn't meet their needs? A new OS coming out isn't going to make the machine any less usable. The G5s are still supported so what's the problem?
I already explained why this is a false argument a couple of posts up.

To add: The problem with Windows is that it has to support so much varying hardware and architectures. This is really not something anybody using Mac OS X wants to happen because we know it reduces the efficiency of the system and development can't move forward to take advantage of the newest technology when people complain that their 4 year old computer can't run all of the eye candy. Apple makes its money from the hardware and not the software.
Apart from a few strange experiments in the history of MS, Windows only supports one architecture - x86 (admittedly both 32 and 64-bit versions). But yeah, support for a huge amount of hardware is one of the things that makes Windows more problematic than OS X at times. However, OS X has supported PPC & Intel for the last two major versions and did it without problems.

The fact it will be easier to develop and optimise OS X now that PPC is gone is undoubtedly true, but this shouldn't be an excuse for throwing some people off the train this early. Just like the federal government can't say "we will stop giving money to certain states because that way the majority of USA will develop much faster", you can't tell some of your customers they will be left behind intentionally so that others may benefit from it.
 
But at what point should that be? People can keep hardware running for years. I doubt that anyone should be expected to accommodate people like that. After all should Apple have continued Classic support even though people still use it? I think not. I think that the timeline should be at max, the last PPC Applecare plan. Apple disagrees and that is there call. Again, people should have been buying those last PPC's knowing that they should be thinking Intel.

You have to draw the line somewhere. No matter where that is, someone will disagree with that position.

Actually, Apple doesn't disagree. The last model G5 was discontinued in August 2006. That means that anyone who bought one of those models will be at best a month out of AppleCare by the time Snow Leopard comes out. It's exactly at that point. (Don't anyone bring up refurbs, btw, because those don't count.)

jW
 
Well i cant it on my awesome 12" PowerBook G4 but I can put it on my iMac.

I understand that they had to move forward and I am not upset at all....

Ill just have to get a new notebook to run it.... though I dont know how i will part ways with my PB G4 :(
 
Actually, Apple doesn't disagree. The last model G5 was discontinued in August 2006. That means that anyone who bought one of those models will be at best a month out of AppleCare by the time Snow Leopard comes out. It's exactly at that point. (Don't anyone bring up refurbs, btw, because those don't count.)

jW

Well if we want to stretch the issue, people could have bought G5's up until November date, but you are right. When Intel equivalents were announce, the older models were effectively on discontinued status. I agree with your point about refurbs not counting either. People buy them knowing that something more modern is out.

I support Apple on this move. With Applecares either having already expiring or near expiring, there is no reason to cary on. Especially since the Intel transition was announced 4 years ago. People bought knowing that their investment could not be expected to last forever - especially with a company that is not afraid to sever ties with the past like Apple.

Microsoft is not a good comparison (unfortunately they are the only one) since they have continuous investment with millions of more people - the difference if scale is ridiculous. They bend over backwards to support legacy systems years after they should be retired because it is demanded of them by their customers. You still see companies keep Windows 2000 Boxes and older floating around and MS will have support for them on some level. Microsoft has to or nobody would invest in them. Microsoft as a company operates very differently than Apple in every respect and their aspects of support are not very analogous to Apple
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.