Mac OS X Snow Leopard Drops PowerPC Support

[Anuba]

That's funny, there IS reason to complain.

And I'm not sure where you get the idea that "most" people upgrade every three years, nobody I know does. Got a stat on that?

And telling people they "chose the wrong platform" sure does sound like talking people out of buying Mac. Maybe that's your intention, but that's the result.

Well, I guess that leaves me in a catch 22 then.

On one hand it's a well known fact that Apple has a long track record of bold moves and cutting off legacy support for this and that at regular intervals. There was the floppy drive that went out the window. There was the dropping of various connectivity (SCSI, parallel, mouse port, serial, VGA... none of this was announced loudly, most users discovered it when they unboxed their new Macs). There was the OS9-OSX transition where they threw out the entire OS, included Classic mode but threw that out soon after. There was the introduction of Audio Units and simultaneous discontinuation of VST support, which meant that users who finally got their audio software working on OSX had to face even more downtime. There was the switch to Intel... and now there's the dropping of PPC support. It's an ever changing platform, and I assumed all Apple users were well aware of (and OK with) this pattern.

On the other hand you're telling me that nobody you know replaces his/her computer as often as every three years, which means - given Apple's track record - that at least 50% of the user base should be upset at any given time. But they're not.

So... what do you want me to say? That Mac is the most future proof, legacy support affirmative, low-cost low-maintenance platform out there? I can't say that because I'd be lying, but I will say this: I encourage everyone to buy a Mac, because it's a great platform wrapped in beautiful looking hardware. Just be aware that it's no Windows PC where you can run 5-10 year old software or plug in ancient hardware.

 

[xamkil83]

Your PPC Mac won't stop running when Snow Leopard is released...

Um.....so you are moving over to Windows right now correct? Since right now you are saying your machine is useless. Right?

C'mon, Snow Leopard is the....wait for it....FUTURE of OS X. Nothing that Snow Leopard does is going to change how your machine runs today, right now, as I type.

Even after Snow Leopard comes out, you can keep on running Tiger, like many people do. Or even Leopard. Snow Leopard isn't going to make your current machine go away.

-Kevin

Exactly... I don't understand why everyone is so upset about Apple dropping PPC support in Snow Leopard. They had to drop it eventualy and I think it is about time. You will still be able to run Leopard, Tiger, ect... It is not like you PPC Mac will stop working if you can't upgrade to Snow Leopard. If it bothers you that much then buy a new Mac.

 

[Jalvez]

Weak. I got my G5 in late 2005. If they drop PPC support it would mean that all us PPC users (who were promised the transition to Intel would be slow and tha our computers would be supported for years) will have only had one major OS released by the time we are left behind.

 

[messedkid]

So....


Who loves me now?

 

[bosskxx1]

Is there a reason why Apple can't trim down the OS into a true Universal Binary that only has one set of instructions on it for whatever chip is in the mac? That way the door is always open to go back to PPC.

Not really. The PPC and x86 architecture are very different. PPC uses big endian while x86 uses little endian (There are more differences, but that is a big one). That is like the difference of a left to right language (ex. english) vs a right to left language (ex. Chinese,Hebrew). The language could contain one code base (ex. Java bytecode) but it would take a huge performance hit.

 

[Val-kyrie]

But other screenshots of this preview has Finder showing apps as Universal. If they were going to drop PowerPC support, surely the first thing they'd do is go through and skinny up all the binaries.

Perhaps Apple will still develop apps for both Leopard and Snow Leopard, but just prepare to move the OS to Intel-only.

 

[ianpyst]

Simple as this.... Kill PPC support, you kill Universal Binaries that Apple pushed so hard during the Intel switch.

@ KindredMAC: Universal Binaries are more of a transition piece than anything. Much like the classic environment. They will be dropped and are not going to stay forever, as much as you may want it to be.

@ The topic at hand: If PPC is dropped, i won't shed a tear. Sure my PPC models won't make the next upgrade, but that was bound to happen. They will still work and get updates for a little bit of time at least. And now my intel will be screaming fast.

 

[Eraserhead]

There was the OS9-OSX transition where they threw out the entire OS, included Classic mode but threw that out soon after.

Well if soon means 10.5 which was the first OS without Classic and which was released 6.5 years after 10.0, but its much sooner than that for PPC.
Even if you take Intel Tiger as the first OS without classic that was still nearly 5 years after the introduction of Mac OS X.

 

[iPave]

If it'll drop ppc support why applications are still universal??? (screenshot from developer preview)

 

[Val-kyrie]

I have an Intel Mac, but I still feel that it's too early to drop support for PPC. They only stopped selling them 2/3 years ago. If Windows XP can run on computers with a 233MHz processor (which is what I had until last year), then Apple can run Snow Leopard on 2 year old computers.

ESPECIALLY G5s. That would be plain STUPID if they cut off support for G5s.

Apple could support PPC, but my sense is that SJ has figured out how to maximize sales by dropping support for the oldest technology segment every 3 years, just after/at the expiration of AppleCare. 64-bit only will be the next step once the original Core Duos have reached the end of their AppleCare period - think OS X.7. That will inflame as many people if not more!

 

[saminsocks]

I can see people getting upset if they were releasing a completely different OS with all new features, thus leaving PPC users out. But they're not. I think this is a smart move. Get people ready for the Intel only era of Apple while not sacrificing anything for the PPC users. And for those who don't need all the extra weight of an OS with dual support, it's an added bonus. Honestly, Spaces and Time Machine weren't enough for me to upgrade to Leopard. But if I start using Lightroom exclusively, or upgrade to CS3 I may have to get Snow Leopard. Having all the Leopard features with added disk space and speed is appealing.

 

[Tasteslikehappy]

I think people should be commended for their loooonnnggg and arduous complaints . . . . I suggest that everyone with a G5 or G4 (Sorry G3s . .. none for you) should just complain as much as possible until Apple just supplies them with a new computer . . . That makes sense right? . . . Wait


As a side note i'd like to say that I do think it is a bit silly that they are dropping PPC support and i'm happy I bought a used intel mac versus a G4 iBook . . . Thats right eBay, I out smarted you! Suck this!!!

 

[Small White Car]

Weak. I got my G5 in late 2005. If they drop PPC support it would mean that all us PPC users (who were promised the transition to Intel would be slow and tha our computers would be supported for years) will have only had one major OS released by the time we are left behind.

Well, what do you want? The OS whose MAIN feature is that it beefs up the performance of multi-core intel chips?

How is having that really going to affect your life one way or the other?

Other than that it's pretty much going to have the exact same stuff that regular Leopard has. That's what the name is so similar...it IS Leopard, but with optimizations to make the newest Macs run as fast as they can. You don't need that on your computer.

 

[gehrbox]

Apple would like all you PPC users to upgrade to new hardware. That's how Apple makes the bulk of its revenue.

Apple is expending resources to make OS X run on different platforms for the Mac and the iPhone. It's seems clear that the iPhone has gobbled up a fair share of Apples development assets. Apple has to trim the load somewhere.

Its hard to optimize the OS for Intel Mac's if you always have to look back at the PPC's capabilities and limitations. The iPhone has special needs as well, but it is making money for Apple where the PPC is not except for the small amount generated for OS upgrades.

Besides I have all Intel Mac's now except for stuff in the closet and a laptop that I use to surf and email. It doesn't need Leopard for what I do with it.

I'm really kind of bummed out that my se/30's don't have an upgrade path to color though

 

[MarkMS]

Can't say that I'm truly surprised that they may be dropping PPC support. They want Snow Leopard to be an optimized version of OS X and to do that you'll have to drop old code.

Oh well, I still have Leopard on my old iBook.

 

[studiomusic]

So my work has 3 older Protools rigs that all use G5's and have 4 PCI HD cards in them... if we want to stay current with the newest version of Protools (which requires the newest version of OSX) then not only will we have to upgrade to Mac Pros, but we'll also have to upgrade the cards (which are $4,000 each) because the Mac Pros have PCI-e...

... kinda sucks ...

Uh, you need the latest version of Mac Pros to run the latest version of Protools... for now!
And the upgrade to the cards is $1700.
Ya, lot$, but for a professional studio... one of my mic pres cost twice that.

They're (Digi) going to come out with new cards before Snow Leopard hits the shelves anyways, just wait to transition until then

 

[Eraserhead]

Uh, you need the latest version of Mac Pros to run the latest version of Protools... for now!

That's probably because Protools is a pile of **** that breaks every time Apple releases a point update.

 

[Anuba]

keep in mind that windows vista dropped support for virtually every PC that had been built up until the point they released it.

Hardly, but it ran poorly on 3 year old PCs, just like Leopard runs poorly on G4 machines, some of which had a 32 MB video card which buckles under Leopard graphics such as the mirror effect on the dock.

Also, Vista was the first Windows version to bump up the minimum specs considerably, mostly due to the introduction of a much requested new desktop graphics engine. But before the introduction of Vista, XP lasted for over 6 years, and the latest (and final) XP service pack was released over a year after Vista. So it's not like people with 8 year old computers haven't been catered to, and they can run Vista if they disable all the bells and whistles and revert to the classic desktop. It will suck, but it runs, which is more than you can say about Snow Leopard on a 3 year old G5.

Well if soon means 10.5 which was the first OS without Classic and which was released 6.5 years after 10.0, but its much sooner than that for PPC.
Even if you take Intel Tiger as the first OS without classic that was still nearly 5 years after the introduction of Mac OS X.

Did it really last that long? OK, my bad but I was under the impression that they dropped Classic in June of 2004 (on new Macs anyway), and in my book Jaguar was the first OS X version that people were comfortable enough with to take the leap and leave OS9 behind for good... that was, what, august 2002, less than 2 years before June '04.

 

[hodgjy]

This is a good thing. One of the biggest reasons the Windows platform is so bug filled is because Microsoft has always been adamant about maintaining a ton of backwards compatibility. The result? You can run your 1984 game but the code is a monstrosity. Do we need this from Apple? I say no. Remove the backwards compatibility when the hardware becomes old. PPC users can still run Leopard. Intel users can run snow Leopard. In 2010 or 2011, Apple will release 10.7. By then, PPC will be old and not worth supporting anyway. I say remove PPC support because the code monstrosity needed to support PPC isn't worth the performance hits it will have on Intel users, especially since the majority of Mac users will be using Intel processors by then.

If true, it's regrettable but predictable, given Apple's accelerated pace of abandoning backward compatibility lately.

 

[jettredmont]

Absolutely not, I'm just saying there's no reason to complain. Most people replace their computers at <36 month intervals anyway, but those who expected to be able to milk their machines for more than 3 years chose the wrong platform.

You state this as fact. Can you back it up?

Every (admittedly old) study I've seen puts the Mac replacement rate as slower than the 3.5-year PC cycle, between 4 and 5 years. In fact, this is often cited in TCO studies (total cost of ownership of Macs is typically lower than PCs primarily due to the longer machine lifecycle).

The only rates I've seen around 3 years are for laptops (Mac and PC both).

 

[Eraserhead]

Also, Vista was the first Windows version to bump up the minimum specs considerably, mostly due to the introduction of a much requested new desktop graphics engine.

That isn't actually true, Windows XP, 98 and 95 at the very least all did the same.

 

[damacus]

"smaller" != "faster"

As far as I know, it's still unknown if the SL preview did in fact strip out all PPC from their universal binaries, or just stripped out all the other languages and such. Unknown whether a binary can lack PPC and still be called a "universal binary" either.

That's besides the point, however. Stripping out PPC for an Intel-only OS *won't* (shouldn't) make your computer faster. The OS basically would just ignore the code it doesn't need. Wouldn't have to read the data in, etc.

All you get for doing that is a smaller size. And honestly, with the size of modern hard drives, using this as a reason to drop PPC support is just making poor excuses.

Personally, I hope that 10.6 includes PPC support. I feel in the end, Apple will allow it to work on PPC. Obviously a lot of the new features that use special hardware acceleration/features would have empty pass-thrus for PPC, but at least it'd still run.

However, if they choose for 10.5 to be the end, expect 10.5 to be the landmark release for a period of at least another 2 - 4 years from 10.6's release. Software written for MacOSX is going to be aimed at the biggest market they can, and that means 10.5 will be that mark for a long time.

Any new enhancements/API acceleration calls improvements in later versions of OSX may not be embraced by software companies because they prefer a larger target market. This is the reason a lot of games for Windows use DirectX9 instead of platform-limited DirectX10.

So, whenever Apple chooses to drop PPC, it'd better be a landmark release with a rock-solid API, because that's going to be the coding standard. Also, whenever that is, they'd better plan on security patches/updates for a LONG time. Again, 2-4 years.

 

[CyberBob859]

Perhaps Apple will still develop apps for both Leopard and Snow Leopard, but just prepare to move the OS to Intel-only.

The Universal Binary was once thought of a way to transition from PPC to Intel. Now, it may be the way to support legacy PPC machines.

Snow Leopard and Leopard will have similar features (nothing new announced), so you can develop something that will work on both. But if you want to have your program run on the broadest hardware (including PPC), check the "Universal Binary" box when compiling. If you want the best performance on the newest Intel hardware, check the "Intel-only" box when compiling.

 

[EricNau]

In spite of my 3-year-old iMac G5, I can accept that PPC support has been dropped. Since they're working on parallel computing and code optimization, it probably wouldn't benefit PPC much anyway.

However, I can't deal with paying another $129 for Leopard 2.0, for features that should have been included from the beginning. How's this for a slogan: "We sold you a bloated and slow OS, now give us $129 to fix it!"?

 

[unwinded]

keep in mind that windows vista dropped support for virtually every PC that had been built up until the point they released it. Ok, true, vista will RUN on a handful of PCs made in the year previous to vista's release - but badly. Don't ask me how I know. With that in mind, having converted to Apple last year, I see things like Snow Leopard dropping PPC support and think "yeah, they still gave PPC a good run so far" - and I agree, they are probably trying to streamline the code. Microsoft's code sucks AND won't run on last year's computer.

Not true. That was only to support Vista's "eye candy". One of the projects at my old job involved finding the slowest configuration for Vista to run on. I had it running on a 233 mhz Pentium II. It was definitely very slow, but it did boot and it did execute the OS.