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i know this is an old thread, but you forgot to factor in the price of the windows os versus the mac os.
YES, this thread was 2 years old when you decided to raise it from the dead. Now, all the comparisons are dates and the information isn't the same. But don't forget that every system you buy comes pre-installed with an operating system, even a Mac. So the price you're adding for a full version of Windows 7 is an irrelevant argument.
 
Pricing has not been announced so this is nothing more but your guess.

Agreed, but that's been the price for Tiger and Leopard (I don't know about previous releases). Only SL was cheaper because it was considered and update. And don't forget that SL was originally $129 if you were to upgrade from an OS other than Leopard (although the DVD was exactly the same).
 
This debate seems tired. You weigh all of the pros and cons based on your personal needs or wants (specs, price, preferable OS, appearance, etc.), and you purchase your machine accordingly. After that I suppose the market can dictate price. :)
 
It's about $100 more, but I don't think there's a huge difference anyway. I have tried both versions of W7 and for regular use they're hardly the same. Even including the price of a better version, it's still cheaper.
I don't care about the names, but XPS are supposed to be high performance laptops.

Business class laptops generally have a stronger internal structure/subframe, despite the external case being plastic like consumer grade laptops, to improve durability given that business machines are more likely to be packed around by their users in conditions where damage is more likely to occur, such as air travel.

Mac laptops, with their unibody construction typically using aluminum, inherently meet this business class standard which is why comparisons with premium business class machines make the most appropriate comparisons.
 
Old thread is old.

Might as well argue:

Apples vs Oranges
Coke vs Pepsi
15 rounds of 9mm vs 7 rounds of .45cal
Soccer vs Football


Opinions are like ******s, we all have one, and they all stink.
 
Have you seen the ones I listed above????.
I am comparing 15" computers that, spec for spec, are either similar or much better in the case of the DELL. Plus, the full price of W7 is not what you pay because a version of it is already included in the price. You pay for the upgrade which is not so expensive.
Plus MacOS is $129. The reduced price tag in Snow Leopard is due to the fact that did not offer significant new functionalities to Leopard and it was more of an update than a new OS. Lion will be $129 as Leopard, Tiger, etc. were back when they were released.

i paid 60 dollars for leopard at comp usa when it came out. how on earth did that happen...haha. oh! maybe the family pack was 129. i had no need for 5 licenses. also, even at "upgrade price" on windows 7 it costs 219 dollars. not to mention they offer no such family pack and you have to but one for each of your computers. assuming you own at least a desktop and a laptop, that's already more than 440 dollars including tax.

snow leopard was considered a continuation of leopard rather than an all new os, yes, but you didn't have to previously own leopard into order to "upgrade" to it. with windows, you have to have a previous version of windows already installed to get that nice upgrade price. there's always some catch involved.
 
YES, this thread was 2 years old when you decided to raise it from the dead. Now, all the comparisons are dates and the information isn't the same. But don't forget that every system you buy comes pre-installed with an operating system, even a Mac. So the price you're adding for a full version of Windows 7 is an irrelevant argument.

i think the price of windows lobbed on at the end there is irrelevant. the computer was already more expensive than the mac equal without it. also, if you're somebody "building a gaming rig" (many claim they can build a gaming rig from the ground up for cheaper) in which case you'd need to buy windows separate, and it wouldn't be an "upgrade." so that pricing applies there.

this thread was 2 years old, but the subject isn't. i still hear this argument from lots of windows users. :) you can find macs cheaper than their windows counterparts, or windows cheaper, vice versa, but it's not always fact that mac is more expensive every time. people gotta start seeing that and leave the myth behind.
 
YES, this thread was 2 years old when you decided to raise it from the dead. Now, all the comparisons are dates and the information isn't the same. But don't forget that every system you buy comes pre-installed with an operating system, even a Mac. So the price you're adding for a full version of Windows 7 is an irrelevant argument.

also, in this comparison i did, the os choice was a option in the buying process on that website. the default was the basic windows 7. i chose the ultimate. this is something people do when they buy new windows machines.
 
Depends on what you're comparing, really. If you're comparing a Polycarbonate Macbook to a Plastic HP at Best Buy, yes. The MB is more expensive, and has less specs. I'll pay $999 for the MB vs. say $399 or so for the HP. However, that $399 HP is a 15" screen, bad graphics, a slimmed down OS [Win 7 Basic, or Home], and that's it. Keep both for a year. What's worth more?

Now...if you compare an entry level 13" MBP with an HP Elite or similar, with the same options, and chassis, you're at a very similar price point. The problem is that the basic consumer doesn't see this, or care. Especially when you throw in a certain age group, or populous. A kid, or family with little cash will always defer to the lower end stuff, with the idea it's good enough for what we're doing. Point is, over the course of time they'll spend the same. My son has a 2007 MB at home. It's as good as the day it was bought, and it was a refurb. A friend of mine bought both his kids a DELL laptop for X-Mas in 2009. Neither stood up, and he has to get them new ones. Cost for purchasing all of them [old and new] over the last few years is more than what I paid for one. AND I can resell the 2007 MB, and apply it toward a new one.

My point? Yes, they can be more expensive. But they do last, and hold their value. It's the same idea as buying one Toyota, or Lexus and keeping it 5 - 8 years. Or, buy 2 Fords over the same timeframe. They'll end up both costing the same over that span...

That is personal opinion only. My mum has had a Windows PC with XP Home Edition running for the last 5yrs or more. Runs perfectly , she surfs the net, plays games, writes emails etc Just normal stuff and shes never had a virus, never crashed, ive had to wipe it once when my little nephew decided to mess about with command prompt and thats it. So in the last 5yrs it certainly hasnt cost her as much as the equivalent then which was an imac which was 3 times the price.

Matt
 
That is personal opinion only. My mum has had a Windows PC with XP Home Edition running for the last 5yrs or more. Runs perfectly , she surfs the net, plays games, writes emails etc Just normal stuff and shes never had a virus, never crashed, ive had to wipe it once when my little nephew decided to mess about with command prompt and thats it. So in the last 5yrs it certainly hasnt cost her as much as the equivalent then which was an imac which was 3 times the price.

Matt

Totally agree. I have an ASUS 17" that I bought for 600 euros 2.5 years ago and I have only reinstalled the OS when migrating from Vista to W7. Other than that, the computer works fine. I wanted a not so powerful computer with a big screen for home and Apple cannot give that. Full stop. For my needs at home, paying 1800 euros for a MBP (I wanted 15" at least) would have been plain stupid. It is a better computer? Sure. Do I need the extra power for surfing the internet, watching videos, playing occasional games and checking my email? No.
So, no, macs are just not for everyone. Depending on your needs, you get much better deals in PCs.
For work, I use a MBP.
 
So I went back to the local store that is selling used iMacs and they are asking $450 for 1.83 Ghz Core Duo iMacs with 160 GB HDD. I ran geekbench on them and only got 2,000. 2,000?!? I get over 3,000 on my aged Macbook. So they were also selling a 24 in 3.06 Ghz iMac for $1450 and when I ran geekbench on it I got 2,100. Huh? So if I want a "cheaper" iMac, for now at least I'm faced with buying a refurb from Apple cuz something's a little fishy with the ones this local guy is selling. For reference, I would expect to get higher scores on those two machines as shown here.

< ... as he types, r0k glances over at his avatar and below it reads... Chicken McNugget? Couldn't I have at least had two all beef patties... special sauce... Oh well. It's only for one day. :D ... >

It's informative to look at those numbers as it gives some idea of the scale of performance improvements over the years. In 2005, the lowly 1.33 G4 Mac Mini scored under 800. Now a Mac Mini scores 3800. This year the MBP line got a huge bump. This year's slowest machine at 5900 scores faster than last year's fastest machine. OS X gives Macs a definite advantage so all Apple really has to do is stay reasonably close to the cost of equivalent PC gear and people will feel free to choose Mac. It's not as hard a choice as it once was back in the PPC days when you really couldn't run the same binaries on both platforms to get an idea of exact comparison. Also you can take a glance at top geekbench scores to see what people are getting on their pc's, Linux boxes, Solaris boxes and Hackintoshes.

I've seen a lot of benchmark suites come and go over the years but I like the way the primate labs folks have provided a results upload and browse capability. I'm not claiming these results "prove" value but rather they demonstrate the hardware is "close enough" and IMHO OS X provides the real value. A few days ago, there was a post that showed Macs in the "middle of the pack" for reliability but still Consumer Reports consistently rates Apple gear tops. This brings to light another facet of the value of Macs.
 
Yes, Macs are more expensive than similar specced PC's, do many people care?

The answer is no, whether the cost is due to the body being made of Aluminium and not plastic, who knows.

Although there are Windows Laptops out there made of Aluminium, and looking fairly similar to Macbook Pro's.

The HP Envy is an example of this, although it's still cheaper than equivalent Macbook Pro's.

And one thing, there is such a thing as high-quality plastic.

Apple computers are marketed as premium products, so you pay premium prices, or maybe its because they are the only manufacturer of computers that run OS X, and don't have to price to compete.
 
Old thread is old.

Might as well argue:

Apples vs Oranges
Coke vs Pepsi
15 rounds of 9mm vs 7 rounds of .45cal
Soccer vs Football


Opinions are like ******s, we all have one, and they all stink.

Coke vs Pepsi is not even an argument anymore, honestly, who still drinks Pepsi?
 
Although there are Windows Laptops out there made of Aluminium, and looking fairly similar to Macbook Pro's.

The HP Envy is an example of this, although it's still cheaper than equivalent Macbook Pro's.

A comparably spec'd HP Envy costs about the same as a Macbook Pro.

HP Envy 14:
- Windows 7 Ultimate (Macbook Pro - Snow Leopard 64-bit)
- Recovery Disk (Macbook Pro - included by default)
- 1.86 Ghz i7 Quad Core (Macbook Pro - 2.0 Ghz i7 Quad Core "Sandy Bridge") HP has older slower processor as top option?
- 1 GB DDR3 AMD Radeon HD 5650 (Macbook Pro - 256 MB GDDR5 AMD Radeon HD 6490M) older card more ram vs newer card?
- 8 cell 6 hour battery (Macbook Pro - 9 cell 7 hour battery) HP lower capacity battery?
- 14.5" display 1366x768 (Macbook Pro - 15.4" display 1440x900) HP lower spec display?
- Stamped aluminium/magnesium (Macbook Pro - machined aluminum unibody) stamped construction less rigid so less durable?

HP Envy = $1773.99 Macbook Pro = $1799.00
 
A comparably spec'd HP Envy costs about the same as a Macbook Pro.

HP Envy 14:
- Windows 7 Ultimate (Macbook Pro - Snow Leopard 64-bit)

Windows Ultimate is really only for die-hard Windows users who want free disk encryption and 37 languages. Unless you need to connect your laptop to a Business domain, theres no point getting Windows 7 Professional, unless you want Windows Virtual Machine and Windows XP Mode, but Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 is free, and compatible with Windows 7.

Home Premium is more than ample for most home users.

Those comparisons dont really work though, heres one of the HP Envy 17, and the 17 inch Macbook Pro.

HP Envy 17

2.3Ghz Quad-Core i7
1GB GDDR5 Radeon 6850
8GB DDR3 RAM
750GB 5400RPM HDD
1920x1080 Resolution
Blu-ray Drive

$2,159.99

Macbook Pro 17"

2.3Ghz Quad-Core i7
1GB GDDR5 Radeon 6750
8GB DDR3 RAM
750GB 5400RPM HDD
1920x1200 Resolution
DVD Drive

$2,949.00​
 
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Windows Ultimate is really only for die-hard Windows users who want free disk encryption and 37 languages. Unless you need to connect your laptop to a Business domain, theres no point getting Windows 7 Professional, unless you want Windows Virtual Machine and Windows XP Mode, but Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 is free, and compatible with Windows 7.

Home Premium is more than ample for most home users.

The nature of the discussion is spec for spec comparison. I listed spec for spec.

With the release of Mac OS X Lion, which will include server admin utilities given that Lion is a merged client/server release, this discrepancy in default OS spec will grow larger. The starting price for Windows Server 2008 is $1029.

PS: I got HP Envy 17 = $2333.99 without bluray. You forgot to include Windows 7 Ultimate again. Also, the Envy is still only a consumer grade machine. The HP Elitebook Notebook line is the comparable line to the Macbook Pro. Despite having a metal external case, the HP Envy is not as durable as the MBP.
 
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The nature of the discussion is spec for spec comparison. I listed spec for spec.

With the release of Mac OS X Lion, which will include server admin utilities given that Lion is a merged client/server release, this discrepancy in default OS spec will grow larger. The starting price for Windows Server 2008 is $1029.

I just added a new comparison between the HP Envy 17, and the Macbook Pro 17 inch.

And I dont think comparing adding some Server features into Lion, compares to the stand-alone Windows Server 2008.
 
From above:

PS: I got HP Envy 17 = $2333.99 without bluray. You forgot to include Windows 7 Ultimate again. Also, the Envy is still only a consumer grade machine. The HP Elitebook Notebook line is the comparable line to the Macbook Pro. Despite having a metal external case, the HP Envy is not as durable as the MBP.

Lion is comparable to Windows Server. Apple is no longer going to offer a server release given that all of the server components will be included in the single client/server release of Mac OS X Lion. Mac OS X Lion will be a complete server release, which makes sense given that Apple sells business class hardware.

Rumor has it that Mac OS X Lion will include some or all of MobileMe's cloud-based services for free as well.
 
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Lion is comparable to Windows Server. Apple is no longer going to offer a server release given that all of the server components will be included in the single client/server release of Mac OS X Lion. Mac OS X Lion will be a complete server release, which makes sense given that Apple sells business class hardware.

Nothing is sure yet. Maybe Apple just included the server parts in the dev build to make it easier by just having one OS to share. Apple could easily change it in the retail version so that you have to buy the server components from the App Store for example.
 
Another pointless comparison:

HP Elitebook Notebook = $2303

Windows 7 Professional 64
2.2 GHz i7
15.6 1600x900
4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 SDRAM
500 GB 7200 rpm
DVD SuperMulti
9 cell battery

Macbook Pro = $2199

Mac OS X Snow Leopard 64
2.2 GHz i7
15.4 1440x900
4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 SDRAM
500 GB 7200 rpm
DVD SuperMulti
9 cell battery

Nothing is sure yet. Maybe Apple just included the server parts in the dev build to make it easier by just having one OS to share. Apple could easily change it in the retail version so that you have to buy the server components from the App Store for example.

Really? I thought the combined release was a sure thing, no?

From the Apple Lion website.

Lion Server is now part of Mac OS X Lion. It’s easy to set up your Mac as a server and take advantage of the many services Lion Server has to offer. Here are just a few of the new features that make server deployment faster, easier, and more powerful than ever.
 
Hmm, looks like it is then. I hadn't seen that before so I assumed it wasn't official. Of course it is great if is true. Now, lets just hope the upgrade price isn't 499$ because of that :D

If it is that expensive, I might as well buy a new Mac that includes Lion by default. Maybe that is Apple's evil master plan. Bwahahaha. ;)
 
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