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Mac Pro 2010 speculations
- Thread starter peejack
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Well, I was hoping that Intel would come out with 8-core Beckton sooner and cheaper, but, it didn't. Beckton would be a serious performance upgrade, but, the Intel pricing is so high I don't see a volume market developing.
MacPro Canadian Pricing
I have a Dual 2.3 GHz PPC G5 and want to move up to the Intel world. Just priced out a dual 2.26 GHz with some extras. The pre tax price was $5,266 Cdn and $4,266 US - a 25% premium at a time when the dollars are almost at par.
Does anyone know when Apple Canada will adjust its price list to reflect the currency rates? If I bought a US unit, what risks would occur regarding warranty work, etc?
Tom
I have a Dual 2.3 GHz PPC G5 and want to move up to the Intel world. Just priced out a dual 2.26 GHz with some extras. The pre tax price was $5,266 Cdn and $4,266 US - a 25% premium at a time when the dollars are almost at par.
Does anyone know when Apple Canada will adjust its price list to reflect the currency rates? If I bought a US unit, what risks would occur regarding warranty work, etc?
Tom
So, I think I may have an explanation on how a new case would delay the MP launch until WWDC. Before I continue, let me clarify that I am completely talking out my ass, both about the materials and Apple's plans. Ok, here goes:
Apple has been on a "unibody" design kick for the 2 years or so, starting with the MBA, then the unibody Notebooks, then the Unibody iPod touch with it's curved back, then the 2009 iMacs with there edge-to-edge glass. Problem with this design, it's too wasteful for a tower. You need to start with a aluminum block the size of the tower, and completely hollow it out. Not happening.
Ok, fast forward to the leaked iPhone. Giz said it didn't have a plastic or aluminum back. Instead, it was some kind of weird glass or ceramic. Perhaps Apple's new magical new material for the iPhone, that will be classy and durable, but won't block radio signals. Depending on how it is made...could you make a workstation chassis from it too? Like I said, this is wild speculation from my rear end, but what if Apple has an iPhone and a Mac Pro built from this ceramic stuff, and is holding the MP back to reveal this new stuff with the new iPhone at its usual release cycle? They are really the two products where the aluminum unibody isn't feasible. The iPhone because it has too many radios crammed in there, and the MP from it's sheer volume.
Apple has been on a "unibody" design kick for the 2 years or so, starting with the MBA, then the unibody Notebooks, then the Unibody iPod touch with it's curved back, then the 2009 iMacs with there edge-to-edge glass. Problem with this design, it's too wasteful for a tower. You need to start with a aluminum block the size of the tower, and completely hollow it out. Not happening.
Ok, fast forward to the leaked iPhone. Giz said it didn't have a plastic or aluminum back. Instead, it was some kind of weird glass or ceramic. Perhaps Apple's new magical new material for the iPhone, that will be classy and durable, but won't block radio signals. Depending on how it is made...could you make a workstation chassis from it too? Like I said, this is wild speculation from my rear end, but what if Apple has an iPhone and a Mac Pro built from this ceramic stuff, and is holding the MP back to reveal this new stuff with the new iPhone at its usual release cycle? They are really the two products where the aluminum unibody isn't feasible. The iPhone because it has too many radios crammed in there, and the MP from it's sheer volume.
Interesting view on a case redesign idea.
I just don't see it happening right now though. Even though the current Mac Pro case is 7(?) years old, it is still one of the best designed computer cases out there. I don't think I've found a person yet who honestly HATES the Mac Pro case, and that is definitely saying something.You know how it goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Therein lies the rub... the software I am using can do as many threads as is available to it, so 12 cores would greatly speed up rendering time on my projects by a significant and meaningful percentage. I am definitely going 12 core on whatever machine I buy. I'm doing my best to wait for it to be a Mac, but just like holding your bladder beyond its capacity, I am crossing my legs and fidgeting like mad over the painful, lip-biting wait.
Interesting view, but I don't think so.
If I'm not mistaken, the material you're talking about is zirconium. I've read somewhere that it's very expensive to produce and it's a material that's actually running out due to high demand.
Also, I don't see the benefits to use it on a MP case. I don't see any benefits of using a unibody design for the MacPro either. I mean, it doesn't need to be as scratch resistant as a notebook. Or as durable (case-wise). Not a lot of people carry around a MP. Less than a MBP anyway.
I have been waiting for a Mac Pro refresh for some time now, since I need to expand my (music production) setup with a 2nd Mac Pro, and use my old one for ProTools.
While I do think that Apple are putting the pro segment on a "low priority list" lately, I DO believe that the new Mac Pro's will have something more than just a new CPU. I am positive it will have USB3 - USB3 devices are starting to come out - e.g. BlackMagic will soon release their first HDMI+analog video output device for USB3. However, on their website it states "Windows" only for the time being, so at least BlackMagic has no Mac system running USB3 at this point... but I am still pretty optimistic about the new MP's having USB3 and other enhancements apart from just a new CPU.
But yes... it's about time - better sooner than later.
While I do think that Apple are putting the pro segment on a "low priority list" lately, I DO believe that the new Mac Pro's will have something more than just a new CPU. I am positive it will have USB3 - USB3 devices are starting to come out - e.g. BlackMagic will soon release their first HDMI+analog video output device for USB3. However, on their website it states "Windows" only for the time being, so at least BlackMagic has no Mac system running USB3 at this point... but I am still pretty optimistic about the new MP's having USB3 and other enhancements apart from just a new CPU.
But yes... it's about time - better sooner than later.
Interesting view on a case redesign idea.
You know how it goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
I agree. I think the Mac Pro tower is still a work of art. I haven't had to look at one every day so it still looks fresh to me.
I also hope Apple keeps mostly the same design because anything radically different is likely to have initial teething problems. After waiting as long as we all have that's the last thing we should experience.
I love the current case but if were going to put the price up £200 I'd rather it not be for a fancy case that sits practically invisibly underneath my desk (and at some distance from me I might add).
However, I know a lot of people in their early to mid ownership cycle think we are whinging and pathetic, and I agree we are, but in summing up this is how we've been nurtured by Apple to behave. They have groomed us to demand excellence - that's how they sell this stuff to us - and it is why I believe most Apple Pro users are more than happy to pay a premium for well designed cutting edge over-engineered excellence. I know I am.
The day Apple users (pro or consumer) stop demanding more is quite frankly the day Apple as we know it is finished.
However, I know a lot of people in their early to mid ownership cycle think we are whinging and pathetic, and I agree we are, but in summing up this is how we've been nurtured by Apple to behave. They have groomed us to demand excellence - that's how they sell this stuff to us - and it is why I believe most Apple Pro users are more than happy to pay a premium for well designed cutting edge over-engineered excellence. I know I am.
The day Apple users (pro or consumer) stop demanding more is quite frankly the day Apple as we know it is finished.
*does some googling*
It's the same basic stuff used in "cubic zirconium" jewelry. Just as a ceramic instead of a crystal. And the cubic crystal form certainly doesn't seem to be to terribly difficult or expensive to produce. Also, it seems zirconia does not fracture easily compared to a lot of ceramics. Here's some kind of info page on the stuff: http://www.accuratus.com/zirc.html
As to why, well, the current case is too narrow for 6 RAM slots, there is that. (The heatsinks butt into where it would go, and there is no where else for the heatsinks to go). Maybe Apple just wants a change of pace? Who knows. Just a theory I wanted to throw out there.
Dont forget about eSATA!!! Apple better not omit that from this next update.
Most every high-end motherboard or pre-built PC has both USB 3 and eSATA. To leave it out, and then implement it in the next Mac Pro update (12-16 months away) would be ridiculous!
Come on apple, quit leaving us hanging!
If upgrading from the 2.66 QC to the 3.33 wasn't $1200
, I might be okay buying a current MP. But that price is BS! I don't care that, that's about what they cost. For a single CPU machine they should be offering these desktop CPUs for under $600: Intel Core i7-960 Bloomfield 3.2GHz!It's mainly to do with Intel's CPU roadmaps, low sales volumes on the MP's, and LightPeak releasing in systems next year.
Let me explain Intel's bit a little further. The core counts are increasing to the point where the Xeon will no longer be viable, particularly a DP system (too many cores per die = too expensive to use; think 7xxx series pricing now). The workstation and enthusisast desktop parts are meant to merge, but it's unknown if Apple will take this route (SP parts only, and ECC is unknown last I looked, but presumed not to be enabled). It would be possible to use these of course (remember, we're talking 2014 here, and 8 cores per die parts will be available).
But now take into consideration the advent of the MP's low sales numbers, and the advent of LightPeak before this point.
That means it's possible they could decide that a LightPeak equiped iMac could serve as a replacement for the MP, and it would be more profitable (no R&D spent on the MP & XServe systems). These can also attempt to use the enthusiast desktop parts mentioned previously, allowing for high enough core counts for tasks currently done on MP's.
Graphics expansion and drive expansion can be handled by the LightPeak interface (possibly a pair of them), so that can put the "lack of upgradability" argument to rest that currently exists with iMacs (I know you can replace the HDD's, but it's not easy to do, and I believe it invalidates the warranty as well).
Dont forget about eSATA!!! Apple better not omit that from this next update.
Most every high-end motherboard or pre-built PC has both USB 3 and eSATA. To leave it out, and then implement it in the next Mac Pro update (12-16 months away) would be ridiculous!
Come on apple, quit leaving us hanging!
If upgrading from the 2.66 QC to the 3.33 wasn't $1200
All current motherboards that offer USB3 and eSATA do so with additional chips. Apple has traditionally offered the I/O Intel provides in the IOH (6 SATA connectors, USB2, Dual GigE, etc.) with the exception of Firewire which requires dedicated silicon.
While there's nothing stopping Apple from adding additional silicon to support USB3 and added SATA ports, the likelyhood of them revving the main board this year is low given they can support Intel's Gulftown processors without any main board revs. Add Apple's minimalist nature and typical slow adoption of new interconnect standards on top of this, and I'd say the possibility of USB3 and eSATA debuting on the 2010 Mac Pro is very unlikely.
Imo this is not only about the processors in the current Mac Pros. The dual processor Mac Pros even still offer quite good value for money. This is about all the other stuff in the current Mac Pros... 3gb ram, a more than sub standard video card, a 640 gb hd and not enough ram slots for more than 16 gb ram (the same maximum as the iMac) for 2500 bucks simply is daylight robbery.
I guess most people would be happy if Apple would add options for newer graphic cards, add more ram/hd space for the base model and make existing options cheaper along the 15+ month life cycle of the Mac pros.
I guess most people would be happy if Apple would add options for newer graphic cards, add more ram/hd space for the base model and make existing options cheaper along the 15+ month life cycle of the Mac pros.
nanofrog - not sure I follow your reasoning
LightPeak may well change the CONFIGURATION of most desktop / workstations. That would not be an abandonment of the "pro" market but simply applying new technology (LightPeak) to the pro market.
As to Intel's roadmap & Xeons - there are going to be low / medium / high end cpu performers. You may be able to wedge a high performing cpu into an iMac like case - but it would still be a high end pro computer - thus the market was not abandoned - just a very different configuration.
Also, the pro market will have monitor demands that will not likely be satisfied through a dedicated iMac screen.
I just don't see an abandonment of the pro market. Apple is both creating new markets and competing very profitably in existing markets that they choose.
LightPeak may well change the CONFIGURATION of most desktop / workstations. That would not be an abandonment of the "pro" market but simply applying new technology (LightPeak) to the pro market.
As to Intel's roadmap & Xeons - there are going to be low / medium / high end cpu performers. You may be able to wedge a high performing cpu into an iMac like case - but it would still be a high end pro computer - thus the market was not abandoned - just a very different configuration.
Also, the pro market will have monitor demands that will not likely be satisfied through a dedicated iMac screen.
I just don't see an abandonment of the pro market. Apple is both creating new markets and competing very profitably in existing markets that they choose.
I believe you, and I think it's really too bad. Mac Pros really need better expansion. Yes it's the same old story, but it's true.
I know Jobs has this idea that internal expansion is the way of the past, but the reality is that we need more PCIe cards for pro machines. Plain and simple. I wish they'd focus on that instead of fantasizing about a LightPeak dream world.
Good point, I guess. This might be true, but it's BS.
God forbid Apple to actually update thier only computer line that uses a tower to current standards!
Most people here are going on and on about Mac using pro hardware and featuring pro technologies. I'm starting to get pissed at this whole situation...
**Rant over**
Wasn't light peak first demonstrated on a prototype Mac Pro of some sort? Apple has been behind the push for light peak from the start and some rumor mills have light peak coming out this fall. Is it possible the 2010 Mac Pro update is being held back so it can incorporate the new technology as well as be a part of its official launch?
I really hope so. It would make it easier to justify in my mind to buying a 3 grand mac pro.
why USB 3?
People keep mentioning USB 3, but most don't say why they need it!
So I'd like to hear why people need, not want but need, USB 3 in a 2010 Mac Pro. Is it just because you think it will be useful in the future, and you don't want to waste a PCIe slot for it?
Note that USB 3 is not a good solution for external disks. There are plenty of other alternatives for that. E.g. Fiber Channel, SAS, eSATA, and FireWire.
People keep mentioning USB 3, but most don't say why they need it!
So I'd like to hear why people need, not want but need, USB 3 in a 2010 Mac Pro. Is it just because you think it will be useful in the future, and you don't want to waste a PCIe slot for it?
Note that USB 3 is not a good solution for external disks. There are plenty of other alternatives for that. E.g. Fiber Channel, SAS, eSATA, and FireWire.
USB 3 = higher speed, pretty much a no brainer.
USB 3 would work better for external disks if your $3500 MP doesn't have eSata, fiber channel, SAS, etc...sure you can add a card, but you just bought the best Mac $$ can buy!
USB 3 hub with 7 USB 2 devices plugged into it to share the bandwidth?
Plenty of reasons.
Why is USB 3 even being developed or implemented?
Why is any new technology being advanced?