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Mac Pro 2010 speculations

I understood that - still does not make sense to me. If newer cpus are available now - and the competition is using them - Apple looks behind the times.

Fast forward to 16 months when the cycle looks long - so what - if no better cpus exist than Apple will not look behind the times as they are using the best that is available.
 
Icaras said:
I think he is saying that Apple may be trying to even out the time frames for the lifecycles of the '09 and '10 models because the '11 models will take a while to appear since Sandybridge may not be out until the second half of 2011.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was it.
 
Icaras said:
I think he is saying that Apple may be trying to even out the time frames for the lifecycles of the '09 and '10 models because the '11 models will take a while to appear since Sandybridge may not be out until the second half of 2011.
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While perhaps something that Apple would do, I don't think it personally makes sense, because if chips don't exist, Apple competitors won't be able to sell the stuff either. The problem is they are now consistently late to the game, overpriced, and under featured. I just don't see how that pattern can hold up long term. If the floor falls out of their "pro" market, the gadget stuff will follow.
 
The issue is that Apple is not offering the latest / best cpus - regardless of lifecycle.

Or, am I not grasping the current gripes?

The gist of the explanation is that Apple is taking some type of grief NOW to avoid being criticized about a long life cycle a year and a half or so in the future. If they use the best available cpus at that time it will not matter !!!
 
Apple Corps said:
The issue is that Apple is not offering the latest / best cpus - regardless of lifecycle.

Or, am I not grasping the current gripes?

The gist of the explanation is that Apple is taking some type of grief NOW to avoid being criticized about a long life cycle a year and a half or so in the future. If they use the best available cpus at that time it will not matter !!!
Click to expand...

In case you didn't notice (this thread is full of it), when we get too long of a drought from Apple, we start to think the new hardware/software isn't EVER coming, and we've been abandoned for the "iDevices". Much lamenting goes on about how we "knew it was over when they took 'Computer' out of their name". Apple has noticed this trend, I'm sure, and decided this way would produce fewer lost sales and a smaller $#%&storm than letting them go on for awhile.

Sure, folks like us would know there was nothing new to refresh for, but the vast majority of Mac Pro users probably aren't clued in to the fact that refreshes are done lockstep with new x64 workstations chips, or they might not know Intel and AMD publish roadmaps for that sort of thing, and will start doing the "abandoned for iToys" song and dance.
 
J the Ninja said:
In case you didn't notice (this thread is full of it), when we get too long of a drought from Apple, we start to think the new hardware/software isn't EVER coming, and we've been abandoned for the "iDevices". Much lamenting goes on about how we "knew it was over when they took 'Computer' out of their name". Apple has noticed this trend, I'm sure, and decided this way would produce fewer lost sales and a smaller $#%&storm than letting them go on for awhile.

Sure, folks like us would know there was nothing new to refresh for, but the vast majority of Mac Pro users probably aren't clued in to the fact that refreshes are done lockstep with new x64 workstations chips, or they might not know Intel and AMD publish roadmaps for that sort of thing, and will start doing the "abandoned for iToys" song and dance.
Click to expand...

I pretty much would have to disagree with this entirely. I don't think pro users are complete idiots. And you would kinda have to be to complain about not getting something that simply doesn't exist. I really just disagree that this is a plausible scenario.
 
I there maybe more behind this than a processor? A new design possibly? I mean maybe there something more than a new processor maybe?
 
Tonytownsend said:
I there maybe more behind this than a processor? A new design possibly? I mean maybe there something more than a new processor maybe?
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Could be. The exterior design and dimensions turn 7 in a few months, and it's really not wide enough to fit 12 RAM slots with those heatsinks. Not sure how that would delay it, but you never know.
 
J the Ninja said:
In case you didn't notice (this thread is full of it), when we get too long of a drought from Apple, we start to think the new hardware/software isn't EVER coming, and we've been abandoned for the "iDevices". Much lamenting goes on about how we "knew it was over when they took 'Computer' out of their name". Apple has noticed this trend, I'm sure, and decided this way would produce fewer lost sales and a smaller $#%&storm than letting them go on for awhile.

Sure, folks like us would know there was nothing new to refresh for, but the vast majority of Mac Pro users probably aren't clued in to the fact that refreshes are done lockstep with new x64 workstations chips, or they might not know Intel and AMD publish roadmaps for that sort of thing, and will start doing the "abandoned for iToys" song and dance.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but this does sound like the least plausible of all the explanations. Computers can only be state-of-the-art or obsolete in relation to other computers. Even if the latter were manufactured by the same brand, like the i7 imac. A product that remains state-of-the-art for a longer time won't produce lost sales, it will be considered a valuable product - it will sell. The longer you have a product in that position the better.
 
Apple Corps said:
How late is Apple relative to the competition SHIPPING the latest Core cpus in their high end towers?
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Exactly. What are the facts? Who's actually shipping (not just taking orders) for high-clock DP Gulftown rigs? Also, where do they fit in the pecking order relative to Apple in terms of Intel's top-tier buyers?

Given the drop-in nature of the Gulftown processors (with new firmware) we must assume that any delay is simply based on processor availability.
 
VirtualRain said:
Exactly. What are the facts? Who's actually shipping (not just taking orders) for high-clock DP Gulftown rigs? Also, where do they fit in the pecking order relative to Apple in terms of Intel's top-tier buyers?

Given the drop-in nature of the Gulftown processors (with new firmware) we must assume that any delay is simply based on processor availability.
Click to expand...

Ugh...Even newegg has gulftown chips. The stuff is in stores, it's being shipped etc. etc. etc. People need to drop this line of reasoning, it's just nothing but trying to cloud the reality of things. No more excuses.
 
TennisandMusic said:
Ugh...Even newegg has gulftown chips. The stuff is in stores, it's being shipped etc. etc. etc. People need to drop this line of reasoning, it's just nothing but trying to cloud the reality of things. No more excuses.
Click to expand...

What line of reasoning are you wanting dropped? Who is SHIPPING towers with the latest Core cpus that so many are clamoring about and WHEN did they start shipping? This is a legitimate question.
 
Apple Corps said:
What line of reasoning are you wanting dropped? Who is SHIPPING towers with the latest Core cpus that so many are clamoring about and WHEN did they start shipping? This is a legitimate question.
Click to expand...

as has been mentioned a couple times already, DELL, is one easy example. Go here:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...n-precision-t7500&l=en&oc=bw1s1530&s=bsd&fb=1

note the available CPU's (including Dual Six Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5680, 3.33GHz,12M L3, 6.4GT/s, turbo) and also note shipping date on the right hand side. If you had ordered last week, you would be getting it by this weekend.
 
GiantDolphin said:
as has been mentioned a couple times already, DELL, is one easy example. Go here:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...n-precision-t7500&l=en&oc=bw1s1530&s=bsd&fb=1

note the available CPU's (including Dual Six Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5680, 3.33GHz,12M L3, 6.4GT/s, turbo) and also note shipping date on the right hand side. If you had ordered last week, you would be getting it by this weekend.
Click to expand...

So these have not yet arrived in consumer's hands and yet there is all the wailing & gnashing of teeth about how Apple has abandoned the pro market, is so far behind, etc.??????
 
10.6.3 was released on March 29 - 10.6.4 has been seeded less than 30 days later.

How does Gizmodo conclude OS X is forgotten? Perhaps they are spending too much time trying to purchase iPhone prototypes :rolleyes:
 
Apple Corps said:
So these have not yet arrived in consumer's hands and yet there is all the wailing & gnashing of teeth about how Apple has abandoned the pro market, is so far behind, etc.??????
Click to expand...

Very likely some of percentage of these are delivered to customers by now, but I have no way of knowing.

The fact that I am wasting time on these boards is a supreme indication that my desperate desire to update my systems with a Mac is already in its final, pathetic death throes. The timing couldn't be more unfortunate for my personal situation. As to your point of the gnashing... I would only gnash my teeth if I were to buy a mac pro today only to see the 12-core MPs come out in late May. Its a bummer.
 
GiantDolphin - buy what you must buy when you must buy it. I'm selling my first version Mac Pro. It will probably be gone by this weekend and will be missed - another great Mac experience for me.

The plan is to stall for a few weeks but, like you and many others, at some point you will buy the best that is out there. If it happens to be the current version so be it.

Unless better / newer info surfaces, it appears that Apple is, not yet at least, that far behind the release schedule. I am hoping that all this furor about Apple abandoning the pro market is predicated on much more than not being the fastest to ship with the latest Xeon series.

So - if you gotta buy - than buy - it would be a good decision if your current Mac expires and you must have another one here and now. That is just bad luck - may happen to me as well. That does not mean that Apple is totally focused on iGadgets or whatever the Gizmodo "geniuses" think is happening.
 
GiantDolphin said:
Very likely some of percentage of these are delivered to customers by now, but I have no way of knowing.

The fact that I am wasting time on these boards is a supreme indication that my desperate desire to update my systems with a Mac is already in its final, pathetic death throes. The timing couldn't be more unfortunate for my personal situation. As to your point of the gnashing... I would only gnash my teeth if I were to buy a mac pro today only to see the 12-core MPs come out in late May. Its a bummer.
Click to expand...

I too would hate to buy an expensive computer just before a refresh, but when you consider what's coming, it's not as tough a pill to swallow as you might think. The best indications are that the Mac Pro is going to remain relatively unchanged except for a couple of 6-core BTO CPU options that may make their 4 core counterparts look like a bargain. While Apple might drop the quad and octo pricing somewhat, there's no guarantee.

If you really need a rig soon, buy a refurb 2009 and save a bit on what will still be a kick ass machine down the road. The 2010's are not going to be anything more than a couple more cores that most software can't use anyway.

Another option: what's the return policy? That may buy you some time. ???
 
VirtualRain said:
Another option: what's the return policy? That may buy you some time. ???
Click to expand...

I know that the physical Apple stores allow for a 14 day "grace period" to exchange for a newly released machine, but I don't know that Mac Pros are actually carried anywhere but online. What would make the most sense to me is to wait until a few days before WWDC to buy, therefore maximizing your chances of getting a new machine. If there was any place to announce it, that would be it. Though, with the recent ads, I doubt there will be anything mac-related at the event.
 
Apple Corps said:
I am hoping that all this furor about Apple abandoning the pro market is predicated on much more than not being the fastest to ship with the latest Xeon series.
Click to expand...
It is, and has been listed in other threads. :(

VirtualRain said:
I too would hate to buy an expensive computer just before a refresh, but when you consider what's coming, it's not as tough a pill to swallow as you might think. The best indications are that the Mac Pro is going to remain relatively unchanged except for a couple of 6-core BTO CPU options that may make their 4 core counterparts look like a bargain. While Apple might drop the quad and octo pricing somewhat, there's no guarantee.

If you really need a rig soon, buy a refurb 2009 and save a bit on what will still be a kick ass machine down the road. The 2010's are not going to be anything more than a couple more cores that most software can't use anyway.
Click to expand...
No, the new systems would only need to be a firmware update to the existing boards. It's possible they could make some changes, but I doubt it given the financial resources required to produce new boards for a single run (no parts swap would produce USB 3.0 or SATA 6.0Gb/s for example).

So unless a hex or dodeca is beneficial compared to the current units, then skip it. The pricing on the hex core chips isn't most people's idea of inexpensive (particularly the DP line), and not necessarily provide a good cost/performance ratio, save for a limited use group such as video/graphics pros with fairly large budgets.

The Quad cores (DP versions, as they're all 32nm) would be a better alternative given Intel's published quantity pricing.

VirtualRain said:
Another option: what's the return policy? That may buy you some time. ???
Click to expand...
14 days applies to online purchases as well.
 
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