Yeah... go and tell me why that requires 8 cores and why, say, a 2.66 GHz core duo couldn't do that? Also, you'll note I said for personal use. Your description doesn't sound like that.
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Mac Pro Owners Still Waiting for NVIDIA 8800GT Option... Due Next Month?
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Yeah... go and tell me why that requires 8 cores and why, say, a 2.66 GHz core duo couldn't do that? Also, you'll note I said for personal use. Your description doesn't sound like that.
You also called it a workstation, and workstations are not for personal use. As for why? Why does a dog lick his balls? Because he can? Why did I get the fastest machine possible? One, so I could get work turned around as quickly as possible, and two, so I won't have to replace it for at least three years.
Yeah, yeah ....
I don't know why this even bothers me, really. It shouldn't, since it's not my problem what someone else decides to do with their money....
But I guess the "simple-mindedness" of it gets to me, so I'm compelled to reply.
HOW is it that the "useful life" of your Mac Pro is reduced to 2 years from "3 or 4", just because you aren't able to use a newer video card in it?? I still have a Pentium 4 system at home that has an nVidia GeForce 4 Ti4600 video card in it, and even THAT old card is more than adequate for displaying streaming video. (I built the system into a dedicated "MythTV" system, which is basically a DVD movie jukebox, music player, and PVR, plus game system that emulates older console games like the Sega and Nintendo.) Even for gaming, the X1900XT card in my first gen. Mac Pro is perfectly good at running all the OS X native games I've thrown at it, and plays Bioshock pretty smoothly too on the Windows side. Yes, these cards have a lot of overheating issues - but a $45 or so investment in a good 3rd. party replacement heatsink/fan remedies it, if you fix it before you burn it up first....
Before I bought ANY of my Apple Mac systems, I was well aware that Apple products don't typically have "top tier" video chipsets in any of them. I can't say I blame them either, when I look at all the Windows PC idiots out there who fork out $400+ for video cards every year, just so they can brag about some insane frame-rate they're getting on some benchmark tests. WHY do you need 200+ FPS in a game, when it looks "smooth" at 60 or 70FPS? And SLI?? That's such a kludgy hack of a way to get faster video performance, I'm GLAD Apple never stooped to the level of supporting it. What's "elegant" and "well engineered" about slapping *2* duplicate, costly video cards in the same machine and chaining them together with a ribbon cable?
It reminds me of the wankers who make their PC sound like a roaring vacuum cleaner, cutting a huge hole in the top of their case, and installing monster, high-RPM fans, just so they can overclock the CPU to like 1.5x what it's intended to run at. Never-mind that in 6 months, the faster CPU will be out, or drop in price enough to make their whole rig look silly and pointless.
I bought my Mac for exactly what it could do "out of the box", not for some imagined/assumed ability to upgrade specific pieces of it years later. Apple towers have a long history of including a bunch of slots that largely go unused, due to lack of 3rd. party cards that would support it. What did most G4 tower owners do with their expansion slots?? Installed USB cards in lieu of external USB hubs, sometimes..... or maybe an Adaptec SCSI card to run a scanner. Not a lot else.
I don't know why this even bothers me, really. It shouldn't, since it's not my problem what someone else decides to do with their money....
But I guess the "simple-mindedness" of it gets to me, so I'm compelled to reply.
HOW is it that the "useful life" of your Mac Pro is reduced to 2 years from "3 or 4", just because you aren't able to use a newer video card in it?? I still have a Pentium 4 system at home that has an nVidia GeForce 4 Ti4600 video card in it, and even THAT old card is more than adequate for displaying streaming video. (I built the system into a dedicated "MythTV" system, which is basically a DVD movie jukebox, music player, and PVR, plus game system that emulates older console games like the Sega and Nintendo.) Even for gaming, the X1900XT card in my first gen. Mac Pro is perfectly good at running all the OS X native games I've thrown at it, and plays Bioshock pretty smoothly too on the Windows side. Yes, these cards have a lot of overheating issues - but a $45 or so investment in a good 3rd. party replacement heatsink/fan remedies it, if you fix it before you burn it up first....
Before I bought ANY of my Apple Mac systems, I was well aware that Apple products don't typically have "top tier" video chipsets in any of them. I can't say I blame them either, when I look at all the Windows PC idiots out there who fork out $400+ for video cards every year, just so they can brag about some insane frame-rate they're getting on some benchmark tests. WHY do you need 200+ FPS in a game, when it looks "smooth" at 60 or 70FPS? And SLI?? That's such a kludgy hack of a way to get faster video performance, I'm GLAD Apple never stooped to the level of supporting it. What's "elegant" and "well engineered" about slapping *2* duplicate, costly video cards in the same machine and chaining them together with a ribbon cable?
It reminds me of the wankers who make their PC sound like a roaring vacuum cleaner, cutting a huge hole in the top of their case, and installing monster, high-RPM fans, just so they can overclock the CPU to like 1.5x what it's intended to run at. Never-mind that in 6 months, the faster CPU will be out, or drop in price enough to make their whole rig look silly and pointless.
I bought my Mac for exactly what it could do "out of the box", not for some imagined/assumed ability to upgrade specific pieces of it years later. Apple towers have a long history of including a bunch of slots that largely go unused, due to lack of 3rd. party cards that would support it. What did most G4 tower owners do with their expansion slots?? Installed USB cards in lieu of external USB hubs, sometimes..... or maybe an Adaptec SCSI card to run a scanner. Not a lot else.
Good on Apple if this is true.
One problem I see with Apple is they make all these brilliant graphics frameworks (CoreImage/Video/Animation), with every extra ounce of performance eeked out, and then sit them on top of poor quality third party drivers. A killer set of drivers could really make those frameworks shine.
One problem I see with Apple is they make all these brilliant graphics frameworks (CoreImage/Video/Animation), with every extra ounce of performance eeked out, and then sit them on top of poor quality third party drivers. A killer set of drivers could really make those frameworks shine.
Back to the forum subject, Derek the VP from NVidia finally replied to me and said we should get the 8800GT option for older Mac Pros in "just a manner of weeks. See red text below to his reply. This seems to confirm "Steve Jobs" comments.
T
RE: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT solution for all Intel-based Mac Pros
From: Derek Perez (DPerez@nvidia.com)
Sent:Mon 4/07/08 1:33 PM
Sorry really didnt see.
Yes the below is true.
Just a matter of weeks.
Sorry for the delay.
Derek
T
RE: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT solution for all Intel-based Mac Pros
From: Derek Perez (DPerez@nvidia.com)
Sent:Mon 4/07/08 1:33 PM
Sorry really didnt see.
Yes the below is true.
Just a matter of weeks.
Sorry for the delay.
Derek
I can't figure out why it reminds you of that. Most people are just asking for a card that wasn't already outdated when they bought it and performs decently. We're not looking to do that "PC ricer" crap.
But to replace that card (X1900XT) still costs you $300. It just makes more sense to want the newer faster card for the same money (the 8800GT).
It is all about the e-wang in that respect. But then again, if benchmarks didn't matter Apple wouldn't post them (when comparing systems) would they?
Phase change cooling FTMFW!!! Quieter than a bunch of fans and you get crazy OC's to boot. What is funny is the non-overclockers misunderstanding of speed binning.
Yeah, I like my Macs, but I also understand the draw of personalization. It is a self sustaining market that has crazy margins. When you are trying to put a computer together you go with what the people that abuse their systems have the best luck with. Those tend to be components that will last a while when you are not pushing them to the edge. It is what Mac people call high quality parts.
And lets face it overclocking a 2.4 GHz Quad Core CPU to 3.4 GHz on air shows how much headroom Intel has with their current chips (a 1 GHz overclock is nothing to sneeze at). It also shows how quick they can ramp up speeds if AMD ever can get their act together.
In reply to the person who felt compelled to disparage me because I want to be able to upgrade my video card to something current: I make my LIVING by creating CONTENT for 3-D virtual worlds, OK? As of now my x1900xt is considered to be a bit "long in the tooth" by the standards of the people I do work for. They just released a new version of the client that pushes my current card to the limit and then some, and my current system setup tends to lock up after about five minutes of running that client.
Also, it would be nice to be able to load my copy of Leopard that is currently sitting on my shelf, but the x1900xt card in my Mac Pro doesn't work well with Leopard. In fact, it barely works at all, the system tends to lock up after about, again, five minutes, and that's while running nothing more challenging than Safari.
So, I am currently unable to run the latest version of Apple's own OS, and I'm currently unable to run the latest version of the client software that connects to the 3-D world I make my living in. Other than that, I guess I'm perfectly happy with my current video card. So THAT is why I am wanting to be able to upgrade my current video card, and THAT is why I am upset about this issue, and THAT is why, if there is no solution coming soon, then I am going to end up abandoning the Apple platform. Does THAT make sense to you?
Also, it would be nice to be able to load my copy of Leopard that is currently sitting on my shelf, but the x1900xt card in my Mac Pro doesn't work well with Leopard. In fact, it barely works at all, the system tends to lock up after about, again, five minutes, and that's while running nothing more challenging than Safari.
So, I am currently unable to run the latest version of Apple's own OS, and I'm currently unable to run the latest version of the client software that connects to the 3-D world I make my living in. Other than that, I guess I'm perfectly happy with my current video card. So THAT is why I am wanting to be able to upgrade my current video card, and THAT is why I am upset about this issue, and THAT is why, if there is no solution coming soon, then I am going to end up abandoning the Apple platform. Does THAT make sense to you?
You can boot a Mac to Windows for gaming, but you can't (easily) boot a PC to OS X. PCs lose.
No sli though. and about $4k for a gaming rig here in australia with 1 8800 gt ... No deal.
As you can see by my sig, i have both macs and pc's. PC will be for games and always will be. Macs will always suck for that. Macs for when I want to make movies and play with graphics.
BTW, is there anyone who is actually using their ati x1900xt to the limit anyway? ie With 2x30 inch cinema displays playing 2 1080p streams at full screen ? Is there really a need for new nvidia cards anyway? Off the top of my head there isn't that many apps that would be making use of this card anyway. Maybe some CAD programs will but they are all processor dependant anyway. The multicore setup of the previous and current generation Mac pro easily handles that anyway....
aussie_geek
All of that at once.... Ram and processor speed would be your issue there all of those apps would be uploading their graphics needs to the card buffer using quartz 2d (core graphics). Unless there is motion video in all of those windows simultaneously there wouldn't be that much of a toll on your graphics card - 512 mb in the ati should be able to handle all of that.
aussie_geek
Yep - i hear you there - all of that is still largely processor dependant. To prove it - open your activity monitor and move a window around and see your processsor usage spike...
aussie_geek
That was the point. It's a workstation so why use it for personal use? But if you're happy with it then what the hell - it's your machine after all.
Got mine
I ordered a Dual 3.0 MacPro with the 8800GT option when they 1st released, when it was delayed to Video card production problems, I opted for the base Video Card, but, about a six weeks ago Apple sent it to me separately. Works great!
Lars
I ordered a Dual 3.0 MacPro with the 8800GT option when they 1st released, when it was delayed to Video card production problems, I opted for the base Video Card, but, about a six weeks ago Apple sent it to me separately. Works great!
Lars
Thats for bragging but some of us can't afford the new Mac Pro and would like to be able to upgrade the graphics card.
Thats for bragging but some of us can't afford the new Mac Pro and would like to be able to upgrade the graphics card.
nope! not the point of my post. I ordered a new machine "with" the upgrade, told it was not available for months, I opted out at that point, but yet it showed up a couple of weeks later (separately). I was charged for it, in addition to the original stock price, but this leaves me confused as to what really is going on. I kept it out of curiosity to see if it really was that great, but I don't see a huge difference. I do OpenGL CAD rendering work and the improvement is negligible.
Lars
Of coarse you would be charged for it. Also you shouldn't see improvements in that type of thing, actually the 2900 might be faster. The ATI drivers are more optimized for that type of thing. Sad I know.....
What about latest rumors about resurrection of the Mac version of Radeon HD 3870? Maybe we will get both options - 8800 and 3870? That would be great!
I don't get why it's so hard for them to support this. The driver is ALREADY DONE. It's a PCI Express card, it already physically fits in the slot. Heck, it WORKS under Windows.
Why is it so hard for them to tweak a few bits in the driver code to recognize the card? Why do they wait so long, until the card is EFFECTIVELY OUTDATED before giving us support for it?
This is mind-blowingly frustrating. I love my Mac, but I hate the lack of good video card support. I think Apple just counts on the fact that we can't stand Windows, and drags their heels just because they CAN.
Why is it so hard for them to tweak a few bits in the driver code to recognize the card? Why do they wait so long, until the card is EFFECTIVELY OUTDATED before giving us support for it?
This is mind-blowingly frustrating. I love my Mac, but I hate the lack of good video card support. I think Apple just counts on the fact that we can't stand Windows, and drags their heels just because they CAN.
Yet, the failure is that it isn't just hardware and drivers... there is also the firmware. Hence why a PC video card doesn't work in OS X until it has been properly reflashed.
There are plenty of reasons that when two companies try to partner, it gets needlessly delayed or drags on. It isn't always technical reasons.
Your capital Es and Ks didn't get quoted! What's up with that?!
Edit: O... kay. They're there now. Weird. I restarted Safari. Whatever. OS X must hate being bored as much as I do.
Hmm is it me or was there a price decrease also for either the 1st or 2nd gen MP 8800GT...