Mac Pro Owners Still Waiting for NVIDIA 8800GT Option... Due Next Month?

[KindredMAC]

Presuming upgradability and a requirement for a Mac, a Mac Pro is the cheapest option. So long as you can upgrade the weakest pieces a Mac Pro can easily be a 5-year computer for personal use. An iMac would have to be replaced every 2 years or less to keep up. So you'd need three iMacs over the life span of a Mac Pro. That's more expensive and much more wasteful.

Of course, that's presuming upgradability, which includes the video card. If Apple really expects their customers to buy all new computers for every minor upgrade they should expect Greenpeace to be knocking on their door again.

It's also a good reason for a mid-range tower. 4 and 8 cores is overkill but 2 and 4 cores with upgradability would be just right for economically (and environmentally) minded consumers.

I agree.

I prefer to have my PowerMac G5 in my home office for graphics work, act as a hub in my digital lifestyle and be my work horse.

Being that it is my hub, I like to have the options to swap out pieces should I need the good old fashioned "bigger" or "better". I have swapped out 3 HDD's since getting the last gen PMG5, each swap moving larger and larger, while taking the last biggest HDD and moving that to the second HDD bay and the smallest one is now serving duty as my Time Machine in an external enclosure. I've also added and upgraded to 2 video cards running 3 LCD monitors in extended desktop.

Plus I like having the safety net of knowing that if one of my HDD's goes bad I can rip it out myself and pop a new one in from off the shelf down the road at the mall in a matter of 30 minutes and be up and running again.

Can't quite do that with a current iMac..... why Apple took that ability out of the iMac is beyond me.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

I'm sorry for you... but even if the card had HDCP... it would be absolutely unuseful on the mac side! Since Mac OS X doesn't (hopefully) care's about HDCP compliance from MPAA... so, again, unless you boot on the Windows VISTA side, you won't be able to play blu-ray!

Repeat after me : YOU... WON'T... BE ABLE TO... PLAY... BLU-RAY...

Sadly!

APPLE can't do that. it would lead to huge consumer frustration. also, Blu-Ray discs are Itunes compatible with itunes digital copies on macs.

so... i seriously doubt this will last long at all. If apple comes with new macbooks and macbook pro's, i genuinely believe that June could be the time Apple Drops Blu-Ray options into alot of their lineup. from, Imac, portable and mac pro's.

they are also due for a monitor upgrade. my bet is June is HDTV time.

 

[BongoBanger]

Isn't that like asking a Bongo player why he needs more than one drum?

I only play a four piece kit. I guess that would be quad core!

So simply put if one can afford it go with as many cores as the pocket book will allow for. If nothing else the platform will just remain viable for a bit longer than if it was a single core.

Fair enough - I see future proofing as a good reason. At the moment a Quad Core PC is enough for me but I guess we'll all be 6 or 8 cores eventually.

 

[trainguy77]

His responses have always been in a pretty casual format.

I'd have to say it's likely genuine.

Well other people gots similar replies 2-3 months ago. Saying it was "being worked" But nothing since..... I would like a public announcement at this point from apple.

 

[Frixo Cool]

I would love to be the guy that responds to the emails that are sent to Steve Jobs.

As pointed out, this isn't the first time that people have gotten replies, however fabricated, after emailing Steve Jobs directly. Is it really him? Who knows. Who cares. But the answers are usually legit. FWIW.

Yes, it's really him. One of his co-workers, that I had luck to meet, said that he really reads this email when he has time and also that there is no secretary that acts as him. From time to time you can even get a brief response if your question or comment is short, clear and to the point - and I can confirm that. IMHO, great man and the best IT CEO ever.

However, back to the this frustrating issue - I just hope that Apple will fix this problem soon as the situation is silly - the high-end "workstations" - and some of them bought this year just before the show, look really outdated with puny 7300GTs and no sensible upgrade card. Radeon 1900XT is too old, too problematic - and too expensive. Monster 4500 is an option only for high-end 3D pros. 8800 is just right - but 9800 would be better after waiting for so long.

The worst part of the story is that all that modern cards work great in Mac Pro but only with Windows Vista! Ouch! I guess that Mac users need Mac OS X first and that Mac OS is one of the reasons to opt for a Mac.

Apple, please fix this soon! I'm first to buy it!

 

[alleycat]

I am very encouraged by this news, though I'm not holding my breath. I suppose EFI updates aren't exactly the easiest thing to do? I've been a loyal Mac user since 1988, and I think they do have our interest at heart.

The news is especially welcome to me since I would love to use a 8800GT for some next gen gaming with Windows XP. At the moment my stock Nvidia 7300GT is a bit too slow for large resolutions. Getting a Radeon x1900xt is something I don't want to do. Otherwise I'd be looking at getting third party heatsinks and fans just to keep that card reasonably cool. The motto of Macs are that they just work period. The same should be said of the graphics cards. We'll see.

 

[antzona]

I don't think it matters if it is actually Steve responding or not. What matters is that someone his responding in his name with this information that they know will be all over sites like this one within a day or two. I think it shows that they are working on resolving this mess, but only time will tell.

If you question my honesty and if the message is legit, im me your email address and I'll forward the message to you.

 

[Rocketman]

I think it is kinda cool considering his fortress like security that he actually occasionally responds to emails on issues HE targets.

Hey Steve, please double the "rate" of disclosure to about 4 emails a year!

Rocketman

 

[SolidShadow]

YES!
My credit card is waiting Steve.
If this graphics upgrade happens, my next machine will also be a Mac.

 

[AidenShaw]

And this little story should finally dispel the myth that a mid-range tower would allow for graphics upgrades.

Every time I hear someone say they want a mid-range tower so they can upgrade the graphics, I think, upgrade to what? Not even Mac Pros have anything to "upgrade" too.[/I]

Perhaps we're dreamers, but maybe when the mini-tower is announced Apple will also announce the DDK ("Driver Development Kit") so that anybody who wants to sell a graphics card for an Apple can write their own driver for it...

 

[Bubba Satori]

Perhaps we're dreamers, but maybe when the mini-tower is announced Apple will also announce the DDK ("Driver Development Kit") so that anybody who wants to sell a graphics card for an Apple can write their own driver for it...

That would be the best situation, but i don't see it happening in SJ's lifetime. That is, the xMac or a DDK. It's a shame, really. With a $1K mini-tower and complete peripheral parity with the pc world, I think the sky would be the limit for Apple Computer, er, Apple.

 

[aussie_geek]

All I can say about this is LOL...

The 8800 GT is an older card - it has been out for ages and Apple has once again been put on the back burner for for graphics cards. Why not the 8800 Ultra? It should have been the option from the word go with the new mac pro's anyway.

Take a look at Nvidia's website on the specs of these cards - most notably the memory bandwidth and shader memory in the gt vs the gtx. They are miles apart. You can also bet that the Apple card will be underclocked as usual with all mac cards. And to top it all off there is NO SLI ON MAC'S!!!!

But, when it comes down to it, the only real application for the cards is gaming. But there are no decent games out for Mac that would push these cards to the limit. For the same price of a mac pro with the 8800 GT, you could get a Pc gaming rig with 3x 8800 gtx in sli with the new 700 series motherboard, 3 gigs of ram etc - the list goes on....

aussie_geek

 

[Tallest Skil]

*AidenShaw's quote*

For a second there, I thought that Multi had returned!

 

[Bubba Satori]

For a second there, I thought that Multi had returned!

Maybe it's his avatar.

 

[iSee]

Perhaps we're dreamers, but maybe when the mini-tower is announced Apple will also announce the DDK ("Driver Development Kit") so that anybody who wants to sell a graphics card for an Apple can write their own driver for it...

There is an extensive "DDK" (called the I/O Kit on OS X). I've never developed a driver for anything like a graphics card, though (just some basic USB stuff), so I couldn't say if it's sufficient or not.

 

[Krevnik]

There is an extensive "DDK" (called the I/O Kit on OS X). I've never developed a driver for anything like a graphics card, though (just some basic USB stuff), so I couldn't say if it's sufficient or not.

It isn't. The one thing that remains entirely undocumented without sample code or open source code is the graphics framework for OS X. In theory, you could figure out how to support a card without 2D/3D acceleration. However, when it comes to tying it into the Quartz acceleration or OpenGL acceleration interfaces, you will have to reverse engineer everything yourself. Only ATi or nVidia have access to the bits needed to do it.

That said, the biggest blocker of 3rd party ATi/nVidia video cards is the firmware.

 

[Spades]

The 8800 GT is an older card - it has been out for ages and Apple has once again been put on the back burner for for graphics cards. Why not the 8800 Ultra? It should have been the option from the word go with the new mac pro's anyway.

The 8800GT is old, yes, but so is the 8800 Ultra. The 8800 Ultra is too expensive anyways. The best option now is to hope the "solution" is a 9800GT that's compatible with old Mac Pros (and that the 9800GT is a bigger improvement over its predecessor than the 9800GTX). The x800GTs hit a sweet spot for performance for the price; any higher and you're overspending.

But, when it comes down to it, the only real application for the cards is gaming. But there are no decent games out for Mac that would push these cards to the limit. For the same price of a mac pro with the 8800 GT, you could get a Pc gaming rig with 3x 8800 gtx in sli with the new 700 series motherboard, 3 gigs of ram etc - the list goes on....

You can boot a Mac to Windows for gaming, but you can't (easily) boot a PC to OS X. PCs lose. Plus even if there are no games that push the old cards now (even though there are), there will be some day.

 

[ElliottE]

This is the "Make it or break it" issue for me

Here's my position on this issue. It's really very simple: Either Apple is going to release a new video card that is compatible with Gen 1 Mac Pros, or I am simply never going to spend another penny on anything from Apple again, period. This is the "Make it or break it" moment for me with Apple. I bought my Mac Pro SPECIFICALLY because I was under the impression that I would be able to upgrade the video card after a year or so, and that would extend the useful life of my Mac Pro from two years to 3 or maybe even four years. This justified the higher price of a Mac Pro to me when I made my purchase decision.

Should it work out that I'm unable to upgrade my video card, then I very simply am never going to buy another Apple product ever again, period. Ball is in YOUR court now Mr. Jobs. Either follow through and give us loyal Apple users a reason to stick around, or be ready for mass defections from the Apple camp.

 

[MacNoobie]

Because we're snobs and fiscally irresponsible.

No excuse for anyone but myself. I bought it to enroll in movie editing but so far it's been a great web surfing machine.

DAFT I BE!!! MORE COWBELLS!

Starting with the Penyrn based MacPro's I believe why dont you just all go out and buy lets say an eVGA 8800GT superclocked edition card (I got mine from Circuit City) and reflash it using a mp8800gt.rom bios?. That way you get the card 1. Cheaper and 2. you dont have to keep BS'ing with apples crap.
I could even PM people the links on finding the rom and nvidia flasher to get it working (heck its even on these forums too) since I'm about to pass out from lack of sleep. I got mine flashed in less then 5 minutes. I know an eVGA will work card wise but not all the other brands will due to rom size on the cards.. like I said easy fix you get your 8800 and not have to wait.

As long as the card works in your Mac I dont see a reason why not.. and dont say you're lazy or dont have the skills the worst u can do is fry the card and exchange it (yeah its heartless I know I'm crying already).

 

[MacNoobie]

Here's my position on this issue. It's really very simple: Either Apple is going to release a new video card that is compatible with Gen 1 Mac Pros, or I am simply never going to spend another penny on anything from Apple again, period. This is the "Make it or break it" moment for me with Apple. I bought my Mac Pro SPECIFICALLY because I was under the impression that I would be able to upgrade the video card after a year or so, and that would extend the useful life of my Mac Pro from two years to 3 or maybe even four years. This justified the higher price of a Mac Pro to me when I made my purchase decision.

Should it work out that I'm unable to upgrade my video card, then I very simply am never going to buy another Apple product ever again, period. Ball is in YOUR court now Mr. Jobs. Either follow through and give us loyal Apple users a reason to stick around, or be ready for mass defections from the Apple camp.

Post that to sjobs @ apple.com please

 

[demenas]

Microsoft, in particular, has done quite a few things that were clearly attempts to screw over their customer-base. Look at the class action lawsuit right now over their labeling of new PCs as "Vista capable". (Turns out many of those PCs could only handle the "base" version of Vista - yet internal emails leaked out prove MS knew about this the whole time and opted not to clarify things for customers.)

The Microsoft web site always, since Day 1, spelled out what "Vista capable" was capable of and what it was not capable of (Aero). So it can't do translucent menus but can do everything else.

Steve

 

[diamond.g]

The 8800GT is old, yes, but so is the 8800 Ultra. The 8800 Ultra is too expensive anyways. The best option now is to hope the "solution" is a 9800GT that's compatible with old Mac Pros (and that the 9800GT is a bigger improvement over its predecessor than the 9800GTX). The x800GTs hit a sweet spot for performance for the price; any higher and you're overspending.

Technically those folks that "overpaid" for the OG 8800GTX and Ultra are laughing at everyone else. They have had the performance everyone else is just now getting for about 18 months now.

Honestly the 9800GTX, GT, 8800GT, 9800 GX2 are all G92's with varying core and memory speeds. Not a whole lot has really changed. Nvidia is really stretching the G92, hopefully the next core will be more impressive.

 

[relimw]

2-4 Days to do what? Install the video Card?

No, my local dealer says I have to bring the whole system in, they have to 'verify' the problem, and then they'll order the replacement card. In the mean time, my machine must stay at their location (dumb in my opinion).

 

[SPUY767]

Anyone buying an 8 core workstation for personal use is a bit daft. I mean, what on earth are you going to use it for?

Let's see, I have an 8-core workstation, I boot Mac OS X. I virtualize server 2003 which I use to develop web applications in ASP.net. I also run a IIS server to test these web applications on. All the while, running at least three browsers In Mac OS, three more in 2k3, and firefox under a virtualized instance of linux. Under OS X, I'm typically running photoshop/illustrator to make graphics for the web pages, and flash to make advanced controls for the web pages. Next time you think to call something daft, give it a litte thought first.

 

[SPUY767]

No, my local dealer says I have to bring the whole system in, they have to 'verify' the problem, and then they'll order the replacement card. In the mean time, my machine must stay at their location (dumb in my opinion).

Dumb indeed. I've never really taken my Macs in for service, but once a while back, I needed to get a replacement modem for my 6500/250, and the local mac dealer wanted me to bring it in and let them install it for an additional like 100$. Quite a lot when the internal modem itself is already well over $100. Luckily, they just let me buy the modem and I installed it myself. Some mac dealers are not as lenient.