Mac Pro RAID Card Installation

[MacInMotion]

Reviving this thread, is there any word out of Apple when the Mac Raid card will have bootable windows drivers ? This is such a major bummer

FWIW, I did a lot of benchmark testing on VMware Fusion and found that at worst there was a 5% slowdown compared to using Bootcamp and in many cases less than that. And accessing the RAID array, of course, makes it faster than Bootcamp. The only reasons I've found to use Bootcamp over VMware are:

1) I am using software that bypasses DirectX and needs to access the video card directly. If your software will only work with certain supported video cards *and* the card you have is one of them (which it often isn't, because despite everything, Mac video cards are still different than PC video cards), then using Bootcamp gives you something VMware doesn't.

2) I need hardware access to a FireWire device (such as for updating the firmware in an external DVD burner).


I'm not saying other people don't have valid reasons for using Bootcamp, but using VMware is sooooo much better in many ways, not least of which is that you can use your RAID array and otherwise the performance is not noticeably different. I mean, face it, I bought a Mac because I want to use Mac OS, and I can't do that when I'm running Bootcamp. I can while using VMware.

And if you looked at VMware Fusion before and thought it was lacking in features, check out the newly released VMware Fusion 2.0. Lots of added features, from simple things like being able to rename virtual machines to convenient things like mapping Windows special folders (like My Documents) to Mac special folders, to really useful things like saving multiple snapshots of a system so you can revert to any previous state.

 

[ManWithAPlan]

FWIW, I did a lot of benchmark testing on VMware Fusion and found that at worst there was a 5% slowdown compared to using Bootcamp and in many cases less than that. And accessing the RAID array, of course, makes it faster than Bootcamp. The only reasons I've found to use Bootcamp over VMware are:

1) I am using software that bypasses DirectX and needs to access the video card directly. If your software will only work with certain supported video cards *and* the card you have is one of them (which it often isn't, because despite everything, Mac video cards are still different than PC video cards), then using Bootcamp gives you something VMware doesn't.

2) I need hardware access to a FireWire device (such as for updating the firmware in an external DVD burner).


I'm not saying other people don't have valid reasons for using Bootcamp, but using VMware is sooooo much better in many ways, not least of which is that you can use your RAID array and otherwise the performance is not noticeably different. I mean, face it, I bought a Mac because I want to use Mac OS, and I can't do that when I'm running Bootcamp. I can while using VMware.

And if you looked at VMware Fusion before and thought it was lacking in features, check out the newly released VMware Fusion 2.0. Lots of added features, from simple things like being able to rename virtual machines to convenient things like mapping Windows special folders (like My Documents) to Mac special folders, to really useful things like saving multiple snapshots of a system so you can revert to any previous state.

MacInMotion, long time no speak! Hey, question for ya...Fusion by default puts all your VM's under the user's home directory under Documents of all things!!!! How are you making sure that your VM slices end up on a volume that is on your RAID array? And also, are you saying that the other OS's in the VM machines themselves perform faster when sourced from a RAID'd volume?

I am currently reformatting my RAID sets actually, changing things up a bit, so I'm curious. I also use VM quite a bit, 4 guest OS's so far, and more to come.

Thanks again and cheers!!!
Brian

 

[MacInMotion]

Fusion by default puts all your VM's under the user's home directory under Documents of all things!!!! How are you making sure that your VM slices end up on a volume that is on your RAID array? And also, are you saying that the other OS's in the VM machines themselves perform faster when sourced from a RAID'd volume?

I didn't even notice where VMware puts things by default. I create all my VMs on RAID drives, either my internal RAID 5 or my external FW800 RAID 0. Either way, the VMs show *better* performance in some respects than running the same OS on the Mac hardware directly off a single SATA drive, which I attribute to the faster disk speed of the RAID array improving all the OS file access, including swapping.

Of course, running the Mac OS off a Cheetah 15K.6 SAS drive beats running it off a SATA RAID. My point is that while there are theoretical reasons to want to use BootCamp over VMware, improved performance isn't one of them.

 

[NightSailor]

I would be very interested in knowing if you can put 15k RPM SAS drives in a Mac Pro with this card.

You can buy these from Apple configured this way.

 

[nanofrog]

Old thread.

 

[rylin]

Old thread.

Necroposters make my day interesting

 

[NightSailor]

Take it back, if you can...

Why would you want a slow crappy Apple Raid Controller?

Didn't you research these before purchasing?

 

[MacInMotion]

Why would you want a slow crappy Apple Raid Controller?

Didn't you research these before purchasing?

Yes, I did research it before purchasing, and at the time I bought mine, in early 2008, it was the only thing I could buy that would let me boot my Mac off a SAS drive as well as provide a RAID 5 SATA solution. BTW, I've been using a 15K SAS drive as my boot drive and 3 SATA drives in RAID 5 for video data since Feb of 2008 with excellent results.

In any case, don't be a hater. It doesn't do anyone any good for you to just throw insults. If you've got a better suggestion and the Apple RAID card, please tell us all about it. Otherwise keep your snarky comments to yourself.

 

[erixun]

Raid utility issue

I had a similar issue with the install of my card last year (see my blog post Three pools of blood) but so far have been a happy camper. Well, let me take that back.... the battery failed and died. A quick trip to the Apple care center (I live in Singapore) got a new one on the road and it was in my beast within a week, so yeah I guess I am a happy camper.
I did have an issue with the utility software though, maybe some of you might have answers to. I get an entry in my utility log almost once a week posted "Jan 1" about some maintenance which causes the card to go into a charge cycle. Every week I get this same event dated 1st of Jan along with any regular card events dated on their proper dates (which is usually one a month). Any ideas?

 

[ahiemstra]

which cables

Don't mean to butt in. But that's absolutely correct, I've been running my system this way for about six months. I've got 4x750's in a RAID5 hooked up to the Apple RAID Card. I'm then running four more drives in an external eSata enclosure via the Logic Board iPass connector. One of which is my bootcamp drive. My current iPass to sata cable is too short so I have some extenders in there. When I get around to it I'll replace it with this cable. Similar to yours, just a little cheaper.

http://www.priceguidenetwork.com/co...7l-02-50cm-ipass-to-4-sata-cable-pb-free.html

Let me know if you want the exact layout and the parts that I used in my setup.

Thanks for the tip. This is a great solution, cause it gives you 4 drives in RAID and 4 more bootable SATA/eSATA connections.

How does that look like cable-wise? The iPass cable ends with SATA connectors that allow you to connect a SATA drive (=female). The SATA to eSATA brackets that I find on the web are all SATA connectors for the motherboard (again female) to eSATA.

Does this mean you need an additional SATA male to male adapter to connect those cables?

What is the impact on reliability with so many connectors between the board and the eSATA drive? (I count 5: iPass, adapter in, adapter out, eSATA bracket, eSATA drive).

 

[nanofrog]

Thanks for the tip. This is a great solution, cause it gives you 4 drives in RAID and 4 more bootable SATA/eSATA connections.

How does that look like cable-wise? The iPass cable ends with SATA connectors that allow you to connect a SATA drive (=female). The SATA to eSATA brackets that I find on the web are all SATA connectors for the motherboard (again female) to eSATA.

Does this mean you need an additional SATA male to male adapter to connect those cables?

What is the impact on reliability with so many connectors between the board and the eSATA drive? (I count 5: iPass, adapter in, adapter out, eSATA bracket, eSATA drive).

If you're looking for a card that will work, there's better options than Apple's offering. Faster, and they work with multiple OS's, and some will boot multiple OS's as well. Take a look at Areca or Atto Technologies. Highpoint's RR43xx may be an option as well, though this one only holds firmware for EFI or BIOS, not both. You have to select which OS you want to boot with (BIOS by default), and flash the EFI boot portion if you want to boot it on a MP.

As per the logic board to eSATA, they do make a cable that eliminates the need for adapters (SFF-8087 to 4*eSATA). They're hard to find, but they do exist. The internal versions (SFF-8087 <you only need 26 pin connection, but the 36 will work as well> to 4i*SATA) are easier to find. They'll also work, but may not have a latch on them (or if it does, IIRC they're different).

In either event, you'd want to skip the adapters if at all possible, as they tend to make the drive/s unstable. Also keep the wiring (total of internal and external) to 1.0m., as I must assume your solution is passive (i.e. an external enclosure that uses 1 eSATA port per drive, which has no active electronics). Active signals can go up to 2.0m. though, and a Port Multiplier enclosure is active via the PM chip on the board. But they do run slower (250MB/s max throughput).

 

[65StangBoy]

Thanks for the tip. This is a great solution, cause it gives you 4 drives in RAID and 4 more bootable SATA/eSATA connections.

How does that look like cable-wise? The iPass cable ends with SATA connectors that allow you to connect a SATA drive (=female). The SATA to eSATA brackets that I find on the web are all SATA connectors for the motherboard (again female) to eSATA.

Does this mean you need an additional SATA male to male adapter to connect those cables?

What is the impact on reliability with so many connectors between the board and the eSATA drive? (I count 5: iPass, adapter in, adapter out, eSATA bracket, eSATA drive).

Yeah, there are a lot of connections in my setup. I absolutely intended on getting a longer cable so that I could get rid of my extensions, but honestly I've had zero problems with the current setup. If I don't upgrade to a new Mac Pro in the near future I will probably upgrade my cables and go to Infiniband for the connection to the eSata enclosure.

 

[nanofrog]

Yeah, there are a lot of connections in my setup. I absolutely intended on getting a longer cable so that I could get rid of my extensions, but honestly I've had zero problems with the current setup. If I don't upgrade to a new Mac Pro in the near future I will probably upgrade my cables and go to Infiniband for the connection to the eSata enclosure.

What did you keep the cable length to, and what is it attached to (i.e. PM enclosure, or something else)?

 

[65StangBoy]

What did you keep the cable length to, and what is it attached to (i.e. PM enclosure, or something else)?

I have everything disconnected right now as I'm moving so I'm not entirely sure about the length, but I'd say that I'm definitely beyond 1m. It's hooked up to a 4-Bay Hotswap enclosure. It's not PM or anything, there's just 4 eSata ports on the back that connect to the individual drive sleds. So even more connections inside the drive enclosure.

Now that I think back, I did have to jumper my drives to 1.5Gbit/s as they weren't being detected @ 3.0Gbit/s. I'm sure that's because of all the connections/terminations. Drive performance is the same as it was when I had them inside the computer.

 

[nanofrog]

I have everything disconnected right now as I'm moving so I'm not entirely sure about the length, but I'd say that I'm definitely beyond 1m. It's hooked up to a 4-Bay Hotswap enclosure. It's not PM or anything, there's just 4 eSata ports on the back that connect to the individual drive sleds. So even more connections inside the drive enclosure.

Now that I think back, I did have to jumper my drives to 1.5Gbit/s as they weren't being detected @ 3.0Gbit/s. I'm sure that's because of all the connections/terminations. Drive performance is the same as it was when I had them inside the computer.

At least it's working for you.

Length and contact resistance (multiple connectors) can cause issues to outright failures, and if a user isn't aware of the possibility, will drive them absolutely crazy. It's caused problems when the lengths were within specs on the SAS adapters used with a RAID card. It ended up finding a special order cable to make it work (air cargo directly from China ). Now that cable is more available.

 

[MacInMotion]

SATA/eSATA cable lengths are very important.

Length and contact resistance (multiple connectors) can cause issues to outright failures, and if a user isn't aware of the possibility, will drive them absolutely crazy. It's caused problems when the lengths were within specs on the SAS adapters used with a RAID card.

I had cable length problems, too. I had initially used a 24 inch (0.7 meter) iPass to SATA cable attached to a (passive) SATA to eSATA bracket, into which I plugged 1 meter eSATA cables which in turn were connected to basic eSATA enclosures. This setup worked with only intermittent failures when I had only one eSATA enclosure plugged in and failed consistently when I had more than one plugged in.

While eSATA specifies up to 2 meters of cable, it's important to remember that the iPass is providing SATA connections, not eSATA connections, regardless of what kind of plug/cable/adapter you use, and SATA connections are only spec'd to 1 meter total cable length.

I have since switched to a 0.5 meter iPass to SATA cable (fits the Mac perfectly) and 0.5 meter eSATA cables (tough to find at the time, but not impossible) and all is good now when using 2 eSATA enclosures. Haven't had the need to try more than 2.

 

[nanofrog]

While eSATA specifies up to 2 meters of cable, it's important to remember that the iPass is providing SATA connections, not eSATA connections, regardless of what kind of plug/cable/adapter you use, and SATA connections are only spec'd to 1 meter total cable length.

There's two parts to the specification though.
Passive = 1.0 m
Active = 2.0 m

The logic board to an eSATA bracket is passive. If it's attached directly to a drive it will remain passive, so the maximum cable length is still 1.0 m. But if there's active electronics (powered) between the eSATA port and the drive itself, then it's an active implementation. A Port Multiplier enclosure is such an example, as that little board has it's own power (typically attached to the enclusures PSU via a 4 pin Molex connector), allowing it to "stabilize" the signal, thus allowing the additional distance of 2.0 m.

It can be a little confusing, and it's not explained well on wiki (no examples to explain the differences between passive and active), let alone eSATA device vendors.