Mac Pro RAID Card Installation

[mac666er]

Get an iPASS cable to plug into the motherboard iPass port. Run this cable to external drives or mount them in one of the CD bays. OSX will recognize the drives as usual from the motherboard, place bootcamp and windows on this drive or drives. Leave the RAID card for OSX. Best of both worlds. The problem is there is no windows RAID card driver. When in windows the RAID volumes will not be seen. In OSX all drives and RAID volumes will be there.

Cheers

Rick, have you tried this? I somehow understood from message 83 on this thread that this wouldn't work, and that an eSATA controller was the only way to go.

I haven't tried this iPass cable trick, but I have read that people that have tried this with hard drives and blu-ray drives can't boot from this setup. That the mac can't boot from the extra SATA connectors on the motherboard (the ones were the iPass connector sits on non-RAIDed Mac Pros).

 

[kittiyut]

Oh Dear God This is insane!

Please, for the love of God and for your own good... put the card in your box and let it charge fully before connecting the drives to it.

Setup hung and I hard to cold-start the box. This caused the volume to show an error and now the system is slow. REAL slow, like almost 20 minutes to boot.

This is stupid. 8 hours of charging now and still not charged. I think Apple REALLY dropped the ball on this. There is no reason that they couldn't have shipped it with a charged battery.

My RAID card came installed with my MP and I didn't read this post before installing my HDs. Fortunately it didn't take long for the battery to be "charged". I can't remember whether I started the process (setting up RAID 5) before or after the battery was charged. I'm using 4 x 1TB seagate NS drives (they are very quiet btw) and it is taking forever to initialize. Does anyone know how long it would take? Does it matter if you create the array and initialize before or after the battery is charged? Good thing I read this post before attempting to install Leopard before initialization is complete!

 

[65StangBoy]

My RAID card came installed with my MP and I didn't read this post before installing my HDs. Fortunately it didn't take long for the battery to be "charged". I can't remember whether I started the process (setting up RAID 5) before or after the battery was charged. I'm using 4 x 1TB seagate NS drives (they are very quiet btw) and it is taking forever to initialize. Does anyone know how long it would take? Does it matter if you create the array and initialize before or after the battery is charged? Good thing I read this post before attempting to install Leopard before initialization is complete!

I believe it took around 16 hours to initialize my 4x750GB Raid 5 array. So it'll probably take a couple extra hours for your 4x1TB drives. You definately do not want to do anything until the battery is charged. EVERYTHING takes significantly longer with a discharged battery. I also tried installing Leopard before the Raid 5 finished and it took forever. It's not worth doing anything until the battery is charged and the array is initialized.

 

[ManWithAPlan]

I believe it took around 16 hours to initialize my 4x750GB Raid 5 array. So it'll probably take a couple extra hours for your 4x1TB drives. You definately do not want to do anything until the battery is charged. EVERYTHING takes significantly longer with a discharged battery. I also tried installing Leopard before the Raid 5 finished and it took forever. It's not worth doing anything until the battery is charged and the array is initialized.

So, I've read the RAID Utility User Guide in anticipation of my new MP, I'm curious, did you just create one massive 4-drive RAID5 volume? Or did you create separate volumes within your RAID5 set? I'm still debating on how best to set mine up when I get it.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[kittiyut]

I believe it took around 16 hours to initialize my 4x750GB Raid 5 array. So it'll probably take a couple extra hours for your 4x1TB drives. You definately do not want to do anything until the battery is charged. EVERYTHING takes significantly longer with a discharged battery. I also tried installing Leopard before the Raid 5 finished and it took forever. It's not worth doing anything until the battery is charged and the array is initialized.

You are probably right. It has been going on for 7-8 hours now and the progress bar is just about half way. I wonder whether you have to go through this lengthy init process again if you delete the volume(s) you created on the array and create a new one?

 

[65StangBoy]

So, I've read the RAID Utility User Guide in anticipation of my new MP, I'm curious, did you just create one massive 4-drive RAID5 volume? Or did you create separate volumes within your RAID5 set? I'm still debating on how best to set mine up when I get it.

Thanks,
Brian

I created two volumes out of my RAID5. One 300GB volume for the OS/Apps, and one 1.5TB volume for storage and the home directories. It is very nice having the home directories separate from the OS. I accidentally wiped out my OS volume and was very glad that I didn't also wipe out my documents, music, movies, etc.

 

[65StangBoy]

You are probably right. It has been going on for 7-8 hours now and the progress bar is just about half way. I wonder whether you have to go through this lengthy init process again if you delete the volume(s) you created on the array and create a new one?

If you delete the volumes no, if you delete the array and recreate it yes.

 

[mac666er]

You are probably right. It has been going on for 7-8 hours now and the progress bar is just about half way. I wonder whether you have to go through this lengthy init process again if you delete the volume(s) you created on the array and create a new one?

I changed a faulty drive from my RAID (750GB drive) and to recondition the Array back to normal with a new drive took 8 hours... insane.

But to be fair I was able to work normally during the process, it was completely transparent for normal work.

But if you create a new RAID then you will definitely have to wait more than 12 hrs...

 

[kakace]

I finally bought another set of four drives (WD Caviar SE16) from another reseller. They arrived in good shape, and a RAID-5 array is initializing right now.
As that was strongly suggested, the other five drives were just toasted.

 

[ManWithAPlan]

I finally bought another set of four drives (WD Caviar SE16) from another reseller. They arrived in good shape, and a RAID-5 array is initializing right now.
As that was strongly suggested, the other five drives were just toasted.

You gonna build just 1 super big RAID5 volume, or divide the RAID5 set up into separate volumes??? Just curious, lookin for ideas there.

Glad to hear your makin headway there, i was pullin for ya!

Cheers!
Brian

 

[kittiyut]

Just a note to all of you who ordered the RAID card and want to use the ODD with the NewerTech external eSATA connector (http://www.newertech.com/products/esata_cable.php) - If you want to tuck the cables away behind the hard drives, the RAID card has to move down 1 slot, the problem is - the cable connecting the RAID card to the motherboard is very short and tight. Also, the instructions that came with the eSATA only applies to single processor (4 core), not 8 core.

It seems like my MP takes a while to boot up. There is quite a delay after you hear the BOOOING sound and see the wheel spinning. Is that normal?

 

[kakace]

You gonna build just 1 super big RAID5 volume, or divide the RAID5 set up into separate volumes??? Just curious, lookin for ideas there.

I divided it in 4 volumes :
- 150 GB for OS/apps/home
- 100 GB scratch disk
- 250 GB for Time Machine (backup the first volume only)
- The reminder for video datas
The main goal was to have a dedicated volume for backups (instead of being forced to use an external drive plugged all day long), to move constantly changing datas out of my main volume (hence the scratch volume), and to have large files out of the way for backups (hence the "video" volume).

 

[dgdosen]

Why put the backups on the same RAID array?

I divided it in 4 volumes :
- 150 GB for OS/apps/home
- 100 GB scratch disk
- 250 GB for Time Machine (backup the first volume only)
- The reminder for video datas
The main goal was to have a dedicated volume for backups (instead of being forced to use an external drive plugged all day long), to move constantly changing datas out of my main volume (hence the scratch volume), and to have large files out of the way for backups (hence the "video" volume).

Seems a bit pointless - you're already protected by the RAID array - if you really wanted another backup - why not just backup to some external device and free that space for something else?

 

[65StangBoy]

Just a note to all of you who ordered the RAID card and want to use the ODD with the NewerTech external eSATA connector (http://www.newertech.com/products/esata_cable.php) - If you want to tuck the cables away behind the hard drives, the RAID card has to move down 1 slot, the problem is - the cable connecting the RAID card to the motherboard is very short and tight. Also, the instructions that came with the eSATA only applies to single processor (4 core), not 8 core.

It seems like my MP takes a while to boot up. There is quite a delay after you hear the BOOOING sound and see the wheel spinning. Is that normal?

Yes, it's normal to have the added delay when booting with the RAID card. I read somewhere that the card does a staggered spin-up on the drives as to take some load off the power supply.

 

[kakace]

Seems a bit pointless - you're already protected by the RAID array - if you really wanted another backup - why not just backup to some external device and free that space for something else?

First of all, it's just not yet another backup but the only backup I have. A RAID array doesn't protect you against your own mistakes.
Second, I just don't want to have an external drive plugged all day long to back things up when Time Machine (or anything else for that matter) decides to do so. Backups need to be protected against drives failures too. Beside, automatic backups are the way to go because humans tend to be lazy. It's always fun to discover you forgot to save your work once it has been deleted or lost.
I'll probably move the backup partition to an external RAID array in the future if I really feel the needs to do so. For now, backing up to a single cheap external drive is a "no go".

 

[MacFanBoyIIe]

I created two volumes out of my RAID5. One 300GB volume for the OS/Apps, and one 1.5TB volume for storage and the home directories. It is very nice having the home directories separate from the OS. I accidentally wiped out my OS volume and was very glad that I didn't also wipe out my documents, music, movies, etc.

I'm curious how the above setup is working for you? I'm interested in implementing a similar RAID 5 setup, but I have a couple of multi-part questions:

1) At what point during the RAID 5 setup do you create multiple volumes and how is it done?

2) How/when do you set up the home directories to be on a separate volume from the OS/Apps volume and does the user have to do anything special during daily use to ensure they aren't saving/modifying anything on the OS/Apps volume?

OK, I lied. Third question:
I have four 250GB Barracudas sitting around and was wondering if they will work in a RAID 5 in my Mac Pro. I haven't heard of anyone using HDDs this small in a RAID 5 and Apple's website only talks about 500GB, 750GB, and 1TB in bays 2-4. Does anyone have this setup or know if it will work?

Thanks!

 

[ManWithAPlan]

My New MacPro is Here!!! RAID Update...

Well, my dream machine arrived on Friday night in a snowstorm up here. I unboxed it Friday night, and let it warm up to the ambient room temperature over night. Here is where I'm at and what I noticed along the way FWIW...

1. The RAID battery charged completely withing 3 hours of powering up.

2. Once it charged (I waited to do anything until it was charged), I decided to leave the OS/Apps on the 1TB Apple/Hitachi drive in Bay 1, in the standard JBOD+ config (no RAID, but takes advantage of the RAID cards cache and battery backup).

3. I have decided to dedicate Bay 1 to OS/Apps permanently, and just use aggressive back-up strategies for Bay 1, backing up the OS and all Apps daily via Time Machine to an external 1TB USB drive.

4. I have begun migrating Bays 2-4 (3x1TB Apple/Hitachi drives) to a RAID5 set. RAID Utility has begun cranking away on that, and it looks like the result will be 1.78TB of usable space in that RAID5. Contrast that with the 2.24TB that I would have gotten in a 4-drive RAID5 set, and you see why I did this...a 4-drive RAID5 set is a fairly inefficient use of a bay, with only 500GB difference between the two. Apple has a support article about the realities of 4-drive RAID5 sets, folks can check that out.

5. I will report on how long this RAID5 migration takes, it is gonna be a long time I think...time to get some sleep, maybe it'll be done by morning!

Cheers guys!

 

[MacFanBoyIIe]

I have decided to dedicate Bay 1 to OS/Apps permanently, and just use aggressive back-up strategies for Bay 1, backing up the OS and all Apps daily via Time Machine to an external 1TB USB drive.

Congrats on getting your new Mac Pro!
Question on Time Machine, since I still haven't upgraded from 10.4.11:
With your setup, will you be able to use Time Machine to back up both Bay 1 and the single RAID 5 volume on Bays 2-4?
Will you be using the same storage device or two separate ones?

 

[MacFanBoyIIe]

need to better understand RAID 5

I know RAID 5 is a striped set with distributed parity. But, what I don't know is how you can do this and not use up half of your available disk space in distributing the parity. I know the diagram I included must be incorrect (I made it, LOL) but that's how I understand a three disk RAID 5. The data and it's parity is represented by the colors/letters distributed across two different disks.

From the diagram you can deduce the following formula for this type of array:
(size of one drive) * (number of drives) / 2 = useable space
I know this has to be incorrect because the correct formula for a 3 disk RAID says you will get 2/3 of your array as useable space (size of one drive * n) * (n - 1)/n = useable space), right?
I'm not trying to teach the incorrect math here, just trying to understand how you can back up 2/3 of the total disk space using only the remaining 1/3 of disk space in a three disk RAID 5. Anyone want to teach me how this works?

 

[kakace]

I'm not trying to teach the incorrect math here, just trying to understand how you can back up 2/3 of the total disk space using only the remaining 1/3 of disk space in a three disk RAID 5. Anyone want to teach me how this works?

To make it simple, although too simplistic :
C = A xor B <=> A = C xor B <=> B = C xor A

The third disk is not a backup of the other two per se, but it stores the result of an equation whose parameters are the datas on the other two (or more) disks.

 

[ManWithAPlan]

Congrats on getting your new Mac Pro!
Question on Time Machine, since I still haven't upgraded from 10.4.11:
With your setup, will you be able to use Time Machine to back up both Bay 1 and the single RAID 5 volume on Bays 2-4?
Will you be using the same storage device or two separate ones?

I'm pretty sure I will be able to, yes. But I'm not worried if Time Machine is somehow not capable of it. I've got an external NAS also, with plenty of space on it (ReadyNAS+) and that can reach out and grab the data I tell it to, rather than having the server push it. There's also things like SuperDuper, EMC's Retrospect, etc. all of which can achieve this.

In the end, I expect to be backing up my OS/Apps drive to a certain external drive and the large data volume to another separate external drive.

By the way, my RAID5 "transition" is still proceeding here, roughly 90% done....it has been 8 hours now and still counting...again, the volume of available space for this 3-drive RAID5 is going to be 1.78TB....should be plenty for a data volume (for now!)....

 

[ManWithAPlan]

RAID Migration Done!

OK, it took exactly 8 hours, 29 minutes, but my 3-drive RAID5 set is done initializing! Again, this was for 3 of the 1TB Apple/Hitachi Deskstar drives.

I hope that helps others in planning their time wisely!

Cheers!

 

[MrPDaddyHimself]

OK, it took exactly 8 hours, 29 minutes, but my 3-drive RAID5 set is done initializing! Again, this was for 3 of the 1TB Apple/Hitachi Deskstar drives.

I hope that helps others in planning their time wisely!

Cheers!

Id be interested in knowing your step by step procedure if you have it. Send me a message if you can. I'm considering almost the same setup. But I am also considering a RAID 0 on those three 1 TB drives. Thanks.

 

[MacFanBoyIIe]

I'm pretty sure I will be able to, yes. But I'm not worried if Time Machine is somehow not capable of it. I've got an external NAS also, with plenty of space on it (ReadyNAS+) and that can reach out and grab the data I tell it to, rather than having the server push it. There's also things like SuperDuper, EMC's Retrospect, etc. all of which can achieve this.

In the end, I expect to be backing up my OS/Apps drive to a certain external drive and the large data volume to another separate external drive.

Sounds like a pretty good backup scheme.
I'm still stewing about how to set mine up. No hurry though. However, I'd really like to know if it's better to plug into an eSATA for the OS/Apps drive, allowing all of the drives on the RAID controller to actually run a RAID volume. To me, and this is just my humble opinion, it seems a waste to use up a drive connected to the RAID card but not actually part of a RAID set. YMMV, as I said, I'm just stewing...

 

[MacFanBoyIIe]

To make it simple, although too simplistic :
C = A xor B <=> A = C xor B <=> B = C xor A

The third disk is not a backup of the other two per se, but it stores the result of an equation whose parameters are the datas on the other two (or more) disks.

OK, makes more sense now. The third "disk" uses less space because it doesn't actually store a mirror of the data, instead it stores the output of an algorithm the other two disks are parameter, as you say. Got it. Thanks.