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Mac Pro the terrible

E

ericsthename

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 13, 2005
246
0
Vancouver BC
As a long time apple user, I feel obligated to complain.


The Mac Pro is a horrible value. The base, 2800 dollar configuration gives you a graphics card worth $39 to newegg. A whopping 2GB of ram, worse spec than you get in a macbook. a 320gb hard drive, the likes of which costs less than 40 dollars at retail.

Don't tell me that "yeah, but apple has xeon processors" or, "yeah, but apple has always charged a bit of a premium".

Don't forget that apple got out of the powerpc game specifically to address the issue of bi-yearly (or less) update cycles.

It doesn't matter what anyone wants to say in terms of justifying it, the Mac Pro represents the worst of Apple's hardware offerings in terms of value.
 
It is over a year old; wait until they update it. Technology moves so fast that it's unsurprising such parts are now available so cheaply. Besides, I don't think the current model is that bad value, perhaps not the best considering the age of the hardware but not the worst either.
 
daneosaur said:
I second that. The Mac Pro is pure garbage.

hackintosh for the win!
Click to expand...

And you know what - all the bloody hackintosh non-sense psystar or whatever that company is - all that would be completely exterminated if apple would just listen to the users that have been asking for a headless, configurable iMac and better options on the Mac Pro.

I dont want apple to be dell, that's not the solution. they do many things well, and differently, but what rational explanation can there be to ignoring market segments

Umbongo said:
Yet it is cheapest system in it's class from the big vendors and has a price similar to the retail cost of it's components. Isn't life odd?
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I'm glad that you think that apple charging retail price is a good deal. Typical retail costs involve a 100 to 200 percent markup. excellent justification.


Oh, and I hope you enjoy paying 3000 dollars for a "pro" class system with 2gb ram at 800mhz
 
ericsthename said:
I'm glad that you think that apple charging retail price is a good deal. Typical retail costs involve a 100 to 200 percent markup. excellent justification.


Oh, and I hope you enjoy paying 3000 dollars for a "pro" class system with 2gb ram at 800mhz
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I love it. I wish I could pay more! Sometimes I feel guilty I got it so cheap I mail money to Apple.
 
BenEndeem said:
It is over a year old; wait until they update it. Technology moves so fast that it's unsurprising such parts are now available so cheaply. Besides, I don't think the current model is that bad value, perhaps not the best considering the age of the hardware but not the worst either.
Click to expand...

The most insulting part about the Mac Pro is the fact that they give you 2GB of Ram, a 320GB hard drive and a garbage 40 dollar video card. I can understand not upgrading the mobo and CPU frequently but for a 3000 dollar computer they could at least give you a 1TB hard drive, a decent amount of ram and a decent up to date video card.

Those things all are dirt cheap and wouldn't cost anything extra for apple.
 
Umbongo said:
And you posting the same thing that has been said thousands of times on this forum will make a difference.
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It's just an opinion - this subject was being bantered about back in the G5 days, but then the supporters used to say "its because companies like ATi have to release mac versions of their cards, and the economies of scale cant compete"

basically, I'm simply expressing dissatisfaction with apple's highest end computer line. I would love to buy a powerhouse apple desktop, but will never be able to understand why they seem to insist on pinching where it doesn't make sense.

ps. then I say, if i could have a nickel for everyone who agrees, then I could afford to upgrade my mac pro :p
 
Because you're a long time user, you feel obligated to complain? You feel like Apple owes you their ears to listen to your complaints? From the customer service standpoint, they just might. From the business standpoint, the owe you nothing.

Consumers suck. Remember when the iPhone dropped in price $200? Remember the uproar? Remember how Apple gave $100 store credit to those initial buyers to shut them up, even though Apple didn't need to? What if Apple had kept the price high on the iPhone, would people still complain that it's too much? (never mind the fact that worse built handsets and smart phones cost more than the initial iPhone price). We, as consumers, suck.

If you want something, you pay the price asked for it. If you don't want to pay the price, then you must not want it enough. Just because RAM is more affordable now, you suddenly feel like Apple owes you more than 2GB? Or more than a 320GB hard drive? Apple, or any other manufacturer, owes you NOTHING. They may do with their business as they please and let's face it, people will still pay for it.

The US Government fell into this disgusting habit of believing that everyone is owed something, and look at the mess the economy is in because of it. GM and Detroit fell into the trap that their employees are owed incredible perks and benefits for eternity and now look at them. When companies give in too freely to employee and consumer demands, they go bankrupt.

Apple doesn't have that attitude and they have $20+B in the bank. Complain about the business plan and pricing all you want, at least there is still an Apple to buy stuff from, and it's not one alive because of a bailout.

Now, that said, wouldn't it be nice if the MacPro had a 1TB drive and 4GB of RAM? Absolutely, I'm always one on the lookout for the most bang for the buck. However, it's not their offering so I can do nothing more than wish. Complaining about it is just cheap and frivolous conversation. Either buy it or don't.
 
Firstly the Mac Pro is not minutely overpriced. Upon release, it could not be obtained from any other OEM, nor built cheaper. And Intel don't drop the prices on Xeons like they do on consumer chips so I would hazard a guess that is still true today.

Whilst it may seem strange that they would pair a poor graphics card with the system, that is because many don't need such graphical power. If they used a 9800GT/4850 baseline then they would just ramp up the price $200.

Lastly, the Xeon is not nearly refreshed as much as other chips because Pro's want their equipment to last. And whilst Intel has released other Xeons since January 2008, most are not feasible due to cost reasons (I think Intel released some 6 core Xeons that were well over a grand a piece).

And an 8 core Xeon box for $2799 is not bad value compared to the Mac Mini or iMac.

Apple can't update until Intel release the chips.
 
ericsthename said:
As a long time apple user, I feel obligated to complain.

The Mac Pro is a horrible value. The base, 2800 dollar configuration gives you a graphics card worth $39 to newegg. A whopping 2GB of ram, worse spec than you get in a macbook. a 320gb hard drive, the likes of which costs less than 40 dollars at retail.
Click to expand...

People who actually use computers for professional work instead of as stuff to brag about to their buddies will all need different specs. Some of these users (scientists) just need lots of RAM to hold data and little else. Some of them need a powerful graphics solution but can get by with 2 GB of RAM. Some people (video editors) really need crazy fast storage.

Apple equips the Mac Pro with the minimum hardware needed to run so that the base box will be as cheap as possible. That way, Mac Pro buyers can spend the extra money on the upgrades that suit their specific needs, rather than on a more comprehensive Apple configuration that includes stuff they don't need.

The Mac Pro is the cheapest workstation in its class. It was a screaming deal when the 8-core revision first came out and is still very well priced. The cheap desktop hardware you're comparing it against is not likely to suit the Mac Pro user base.
 
ericsthename said:
It's just an opinion - this subject was being bantered about back in the G5 days, but then the supporters used to say "its because companies like ATi have to release mac versions of their cards, and the economies of scale cant compete"

basically, I'm simply expressing dissatisfaction with apple's highest end computer line. I would love to buy a powerhouse apple desktop, but will never be able to understand why they seem to insist on pinching where it doesn't make sense.

ps. then I say, if i could have a nickel for everyone who agrees, then I could afford to upgrade my mac pro :p
Click to expand...

You're preaching to the choir. Email Steve Jobs if it really bothers you. The Mac Pro isn't "overpriced", the issue is the gap between the iMac and the Mac Pro and the lack options that Apple offer on a dual socket workstation.
 
dal20402 said:
People who actually use computers for professional work instead of as stuff to brag about to their buddies will all need different specs. Some of these users (scientists) just need lots of RAM to hold data and little else. Some of them need a powerful graphics solution but can get by with 2 GB of RAM. Some people (video editors) really need crazy fast storage.

Apple equips the Mac Pro with the minimum hardware needed to run so that the base box will be as cheap as possible. That way, Mac Pro buyers can spend the extra money on the upgrades that suit their specific needs, rather than on a more comprehensive Apple configuration that includes stuff they don't need.

The Mac Pro is the cheapest workstation in its class. It was a screaming deal when the 8-core revision first came out and is still very well priced. The cheap desktop hardware you're comparing it against is not likely to suit the Mac Pro user base.
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This.

Basically what I was trying to get across in my post but I'm not so great with words.
 
wheezy said:
Now, that said, wouldn't it be nice if the MacPro had a 1TB drive and 4GB of RAM? Absolutely, I'm always one on the lookout for the most bang for the buck. However, it's not their offering so I can do nothing more than wish. Complaining about it is just cheap and frivolous conversation. Either buy it or don't.
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Well, I'm glad you introduced the notion of Apple owing the consumer, since that was never suggested. I can also see that you're a proud owner of a Mac Pro 2.8. By the way, the US government didn't sink the economy - pure private BANKS did. Detroit fell by the wayside because of longstanding issues with their business model.

Now lastly, I would like to point out that apple has 20b in the bank now, but they were straight bankrupt in 2000. So you're right, absolutely apple OWES me nothing, but corporations are only as good as the people that purchase from them. My opinion is my own, and plenty of people would agree.

Secondly, I would like to point out that not once did I mention the XEON processors as being bad value - theyre the paramount chip from intel, and also the priciest - that part of the mac pro's price is understandable. What I am saying, is that the infrequent update of frequently updated parts (hard drives, ram, video cards) means that their offerings fail to remain competitive. It's not a justification to say that because some people don't need graphics, thats why they offer poor cards - thats why they offer the iMac!
 
dal20402 said:
People who actually use computers for professional work instead of as stuff to brag about to their buddies will all need different specs. The Mac Pro is the cheapest workstation in its class. It was a screaming deal when the 8-core revision first came out and is still very well priced. The cheap desktop hardware you're comparing it against is not likely to suit the Mac Pro user base.
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Well the cheap desktop hardware I'm comparing it against is just the mac pro's component costs at retail. the ATi hd card is a 39 dollar card! how can that be considered workstation material? and the 2gb ram - my goodness - you would have trouble trying to buy computers from any other manufacturer with that low of ram.
 
ericsthename said:
It doesn't matter what anyone wants to say in terms of justifying it, the Mac Pro represents the worst of Apple's hardware offerings in terms of value.
Click to expand...

Well, this is a flameware, but I do feel obligated to point out that Apple uses Intel's best work platform within the MacPro - **** that costs a ton of money. In fact, now it may be slightly outdated, but the shraisa still costs a metric arsetonne. Building a PC equivilent to the MacPro that has the same processors, the same mobo, and the same ECC RAM will have a significantly higher cost.

Why pay so much for the MacPro? OSX and expandability.
 
dal20402 said:
People who actually use computers for professional work instead of as stuff to brag about to their buddies will all need different specs. Some of these users (scientists) just need lots of RAM to hold data and little else. Some of them need a powerful graphics solution but can get by with 2 GB of RAM. Some people (video editors) really need crazy fast storage.

Apple equips the Mac Pro with the minimum hardware needed to run so that the base box will be as cheap as possible. That way, Mac Pro buyers can spend the extra money on the upgrades that suit their specific needs, rather than on a more comprehensive Apple configuration that includes stuff they don't need.

The Mac Pro is the cheapest workstation in its class. It was a screaming deal when the 8-core revision first came out and is still very well priced. The cheap desktop hardware you're comparing it against is not likely to suit the Mac Pro user base.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter how hard you try to justify it, it doesn't change the facts. Apple overcharges for obsolete hardware.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with with cpus apple uses in the mac pro. Xeons are expensive and not updated frequently. I understand that but, it's the little things that are so inexpensive for apple to offer such as memory, hard disks, graphics cards etc. I do not think that the customer of a $3000 computer should have to fork out another $500 to get their computer up to respectable specs.

Can you explain to me how it is justified to put a 320GB hard drive in a mac pro when it would not be any more expensive to put in a 500Gb drive at the very least. Not to mention 2GB of RAM. 2GB of RAM!! It is difficult to even find such miniscule amounts of memory for a desktop machine. You can easily get 6GB of Ram, a respectable amount for 50 bucks. Why does apple have to nickel and dime its customers?
 
daneosaur said:
It doesn't matter how hard you try to justify it, it doesn't change the facts. Apple overcharges for obsolete hardware.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with with cpus apple uses in the mac pro. Xeons are expensive and not updated frequently. I understand that but, it's the little things that are so inexpensive for apple to offer such as memory, hard disks, graphics cards etc. I do not think that the customer of a $3000 computer should have to fork out another $500 to get their computer up to respectable specs.

Can you explain to me how it is justified to put a 320GB hard drive in a mac pro when it would not be any more expensive to put in a 500Gb drive at the very least. Not to mention 2GB of RAM. 2GB of RAM!! It is difficult to even find such miniscule amounts of memory for a desktop machine. You can easily get 6GB of Ram, a respectable amount for 50 bucks. Why does apple have to nickel and dime its customers?
Click to expand...


And let the choir say, AMEN!
 
daneosaur said:
Can you explain to me how it is justified to put a 320GB hard drive in a mac pro when it would not be any more expensive to put in a 500Gb drive at the very least. Not to mention 2GB of RAM. 2GB of RAM!! It is difficult to even find such miniscule amounts of memory for a desktop machine. You can easily get 6GB of Ram, a respectable amount for 50 bucks. Why does apple have to nickel and dime its customers?
Click to expand...

You're correct on the HDD - 320 GB does seem a little out-of-touch. That and Apple does overchage for its SATA HDDs and ECC RAM.... But the price on DDR2 ECC RAM from Apple and real-world ECC RAM that can actually go inside of the Macpro is less of a margin then regular DDR2.
 
Dr.Pants said:
You're correct on the HDD - 320 GB does seem a little out-of-touch. That and Apple does overchage for its SATA HDDs and ECC RAM.... But the price on DDR2 ECC RAM from Apple and real-world ECC RAM that can actually go inside of the Macpro is less of a margin then regular DDR2.
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Yes, I guess I was arguing this a bit on the context that the apple upgrade costs are enormous, which I forgot to say. Sure, a small harddrive and/or ram wouldnt be of concern if you could simply choose your specs for a reasonable cost.
 
Would you rather they offered 4gb RAM and a 500gb HDD for $3099, or would you rather they offered what they do for $2799 and let you add in your own and save cash.

Personally I'd rather they shipped it with no RAM, hard drive or GPU and let me source my own.
 
nick9191 said:
Would you rather they offered 4gb RAM and a 500gb HDD for $3099, or would you rather they offered what they do for $2799 and let you add in your own and save cash.

Personally I'd rather they shipped it with no RAM, hard drive or GPU and let me source my own.
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That would be a good idea. If I could take what they charge for 2gb ram and a 320 gb harddrive OFF the cost of the computer, and put my own in theeeen we'd be talking.
 
dal20402 said:
The Mac Pro is the cheapest workstation in its class.
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This myth is oft repeated but not really all that true. Spec out something like a Dell T7400 with dual quad core Xeons and you might find that the same budget stretches to 4GB, a 750GB drive and a reasonable Nvidia Quadro for your graphics. Mac Pro isn't terrible value but still.

But of course this complaint isn't really about the Mac Pro itself but more about all those Apples that are missing between the Mini and the Pro.
 
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