Mac Pro To Get Dual Optical Drive Slots?

[zero2dash]

/snip

If you don't want to pay extra to use an Apple built, Apple configured, Apple tested machine running Apple's OS, then don't.

Enjoy building a mishmash of hardware that hasn't been tested together, enjoy installing drivers and preventative software, and then enjoy downloading all 40 of the Critical Updates that come from being in Windows land.

I've got 2 PCs that have never been infected with anything, running XP Pro. (and before that - Win2k Pro)
At this point in time, I'd trade both computers for Macs in a heartbeat, and when the Mac Pro is released, I'll gladly pay several hundred dollars more to buy one than build an identical machine for a lower price, just for the simple fact that I don't ever have to worry about downloading Critical Updates or having to deal with WGA/activation BS again.

 

[wizz0bang]

The only thing guaranteed to be "cheaper" about one case is the fixed design cost - and with sufficient volume even the design costs are quickly amortized if the smaller case is cheaper to build (or buy - Apple most likely contracts the metal-bending out to another company with case-building experience).

The power supply is again something that Apple would buy - so saving a few dollars per supply on a smaller supply for the New Form-Factor 64-bit Dual-Core Conroe Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box would quickly cover any minor costs in contracting for a different size supply. (And perhaps the reason for the move to top-mount PSU is to use a standard ATX-12V power supply, in which case Apple will save a bundle on each supply, and be able to pick the right size for each model with zero engineering cost.)

The same economic model would go for the motherboard as well - since Apple basically is using Intel reference designs with few or no custom chips, a new mobo for a new model isn't the huge design expense that it would be for a pure Apple design.

Hi! I think the argument goes something like this: if apple were to use only one tower box and one power supply for its' whole MacPro range (instead of making a Mac range in smaller cases in lieu of a low end MacPro - which I advocate BTW), it would mean more units of this case and PS ordered. Say the low end represents half the MacPro sales. Say they sell one million per order cycle, half high end and half low end (for argument sake). What is cheaper? Designing a separate tower (mid sized or mini tower) and ordering 500,000 in addition to 500,000 of the existing (slightly modified maybe ATX) design, or order 1 million total of the later? I believe (but I could be wrong) it's cheaper, per unit, in the later case.

I agree, and you make excellent points, that having Intel, maybe going ATX, using standard or even "off-the-shelf" MBs and PSs saves Apple big time in design and manufacture. I think these savings will be incorporated in either of the above two scenarios. So, is it cheaper to buy 1 million units at X, or 500,000 at Y plus 500,000 at Z. I guess it depends on how much cheaper Y (the mini or mid tower) is to manufacture than the full sized "Pro" tower. If, as you argue, the savings per unit multiplied by 500,000 is greater than the savings of ordering the larger number of units - than you would be correct. I don't have the information needed to answer this... but I like your reasoning as it goes to support my original argument FOR Apple having a "Mac" with smaller case in addition to the MacPro.

Great post...

 

[PCPrabbit]

Old Power Mac G5's?

My question is:

What about them "old" cheese graters? Once the new intel ones come out, how will the non-intel towers change in terms of price? I don't know if those intel processors are worth getting so soon and the older guys might be my next purchase.

 

[wizz0bang]

My question is:

What about them "old" cheese graters? Once the new intel ones come out, how will the non-intel towers change in terms of price? I don't know if those intel processors are worth getting so soon and the older guys might be my next purchase.

Good point, I wonder if Apple will keep the Quad G5 around for six more months to please pro users who want to continue using PPC software. Or will they have to buy from stock left on hand (including refurbs) at the time of the Intel MacPro announcement?

 

[woolfgang]

I totally agree. When the Intel transition was announced, some of the hype was over the quicker product cycles, lower costs and more options having Intel platforms would bring.

If Apple wants to grow it's market share, that means capturing PC users. While undercutting Dell shouldn't be a goal, being competitive should be. This means a $999 - $1299 - $1499 tower configuration that high-end (not pro) PC users expect. Conroe is a perfect product for this range. It would only make sense (to me) for Apple to make use of it.

Apple's core market/user base is accustomed to paying a high price for quality and a premium for using OSX. For a Pro who needs high-end software to do their job, Apple's quad systems are indeed a bargain. But Apple needs to grow that user base to include other users traditionally in the mid-range PC world. For the university student, enthusiast, gamer crowd, as well as non-computer oriented professionals (accountants, lawyers, doctors, etc...) a "mid-range" tower setup is a favorite form factor/price range. Sure an iMac is a wonderful choice for many in this category, but not ideal or desirable for all (read this thread for many good posts on this topic).

It will be exciting to see what WWDC brings!

Agreed. Although, because of my work, I'm a high end person, the average PC person, or switcher definitely isn't. Most people who switch, don't buy a Quad as their first Mac. The first one is a Mini, or Macbook(ibook), or entry level imac. There is a big whole to fill, which they started to fill with the Mini. It's a no lose thing, most average PC users I've met, would like to have a Mac, but "Can't afford it."

 

[Keebler]

If you don't want to pay extra to use an Apple built, Apple configured, Apple tested machine running Apple's OS, then don't.

Enjoy building a mishmash of hardware that hasn't been tested together, enjoy installing drivers and preventative software, and then enjoy downloading all 40 of the Critical Updates that come from being in Windows land.

I've got 2 PCs that have never been infected with anything, running XP Pro. (and before that - Win2k Pro)
At this point in time, I'd trade both computers for Macs in a heartbeat, and when the Mac Pro is released, I'll gladly pay several hundred dollars more to buy one than build an identical machine for a lower price, just for the simple fact that I don't ever have to worry about downloading Critical Updates or having to deal with WGA/activation BS again.

i second this post in a big way. look, we can all build/find cheap pcs. cost wise, for what they do, they're pretty good.

but i'll say this again, you get what you pay for. i would also sell my pc and spend MORE to get a high quality computing experience which i'll get with any mac. i relish the fact that installing anything is pretty easy on a mac and it just works. everything just works.

it's like buying cars..sure, you can spend $15000 on a ford focus or spend $25000 on a lexus (numbers fudged for the purpose of this chat).

which vehicle will last longer? work well; run nicer and is built of a higher quality? obviously the latter, without a doubt. some folks will buy the focus and then complain at how bad it sucks.

some ppl will buy for cost, others will recognize and buy for quality.

the people who say that macs are more expensive also don't factor in mac os. sure, hardware wise, macs may be more, but add in mac os and it's invaluable imho.

my comment about 'thing just work' can be summed up my post from the other day. i'm still shaking my head at how bad windoze sucks.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/215839/

 

[woolfgang]

i second this post in a big way. look, we can all build/find cheap pcs. cost wise, for what they do, they're pretty good.

but i'll say this again, you get what you pay for. i would also sell my pc and spend MORE to get a high quality computing experience which i'll get with any mac. i relish the fact that installing anything is pretty easy on a mac and it just works. everything just works.

it's like buying cars..sure, you can spend $15000 on a ford focus or spend $25000 on a lexus (numbers fudged for the purpose of this chat).

which vehicle will last longer? work well; run nicer and is built of a higher quality? obviously the latter, without a doubt. some folks will buy the focus and then complain at how bad it sucks.

some ppl will buy for cost, others will recognize and buy for quality.

the people who say that macs are more expensive also don't factor in mac os. sure, hardware wise, macs may be more, but add in mac os and it's invaluable imho.

my comment about 'thing just work' can be summed up my post from the other day. i'm still shaking my head at how bad windoze sucks.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/215839/

Look when they took the new G5's and threw them together right out of the box. They had one of the worlds best super-computers.

 

[Mikael]

If you don't want to pay extra to use an Apple built, Apple configured, Apple tested machine running Apple's OS, then don't.

Enjoy building a mishmash of hardware that hasn't been tested together, enjoy installing drivers and preventative software, and then enjoy downloading all 40 of the Critical Updates that come from being in Windows land.

I've built maybe 15 PCs the last few years, all made from different parts, and I've yet to come across any compatibility problems. Defective hardware, yes, compatibility problems, no. You can keep trying to convince yourself that you get something unique from Apple, though. I'd be surprised if the Mac Pro motherboard is built from higher quality components than Asus' top-of-the-line Conroe board or that the PSU is of higher quality than any other PSUs from respected manufacturers.

This is a major problem for Apple. Sure, these forums are full of people that believe that they're getting "something special" when they're buying an Apple box. Most others (atleast those with some computer knowledge) see a Mac as precisely what it is: just another computer. A pre-built machine from Dell or HP or a home built machine built from high quality components is quite likely to work just as well, hardwarewise, as a Mac.

So, to those people, the price premium paid will be more or less for OS X. Whether it's worth it or not probably depends on who the buyer is. To a porn surfing computer illiterate, it's probably heaven. To me, it doesn't really matter. My internet habits don't seem to get me much in the way of viruses and spyware and Windows works fine for what I do. Don't get me wrong though, it would be nice to have OS X, but not with that price difference.

Apple needs to do something to appeal to customers like me, because I'm sure that I'm not alone thinking this way.

my comment about 'thing just work' can be summed up my post from the other day. i'm still shaking my head at how bad windoze sucks.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/215839/

Interesting. I've never sent a fax from Windows, so I decided to try it and see if it's as complicated as you said. I begun with a simple search for the word "fax" in the Windows help. I was instructed to add the fax function through the control panel. Just like you, I was asked for the CD during the install. Popped in the XP install CD and pressed the OK button. Done. Started the fax application, filled in my info, chose modem and the text I wanted to fax and off it went. Took less than five minutes in total. Okay, it's kind of bad if Windows didn't indicate that the file can be found on any Windows install CD. My Windows install, even though it's WinXP SP2, didn't ask specifically for the SP2 files, though. Go ahead and try the XP install CD if you ever need to fax from a Windows machine again. I'm sure it will work just fine.

 

[Timepass]

If you don't want to pay extra to use an Apple built, Apple configured, Apple tested machine running Apple's OS, then don't.

Enjoy building a mishmash of hardware that hasn't been tested together, enjoy installing drivers and preventative software, and then enjoy downloading all 40 of the Critical Updates that come from being in Windows land.

I've got 2 PCs that have never been infected with anything, running XP Pro. (and before that - Win2k Pro)
At this point in time, I'd trade both computers for Macs in a heartbeat, and when the Mac Pro is released, I'll gladly pay several hundred dollars more to buy one than build an identical machine for a lower price, just for the simple fact that I don't ever have to worry about downloading Critical Updates or having to deal with WGA/activation BS again.

you never built a computer before or using things that are not fair attacks on home builders. Installing OS, and downloading updates.... would have to do that on a mac as well and install software.

As for the hardware I willing to bet money the computer I built 2 years ago the hardware in it is over all better quility (and the parts that are not are same lv) and cost less to build and get up and running.

I know for a fact the ram and the PSU are of high quility parts than apple uses. Mobo was good. HD was WD so it is as good if not better than what apple using. Opical drives are the ones apple uses just not rebranded so I paid less. CPU I say it the same lv. Graphic card is ATI.

In building computers it about chipsets and for the most part they all play nice.

I enjoy building my PC because I chose the parts I wanted and I know exactly what i put in there. It gives me the advatage of knowing how everything works and makes it easier to trace down problems if they ever come up plus I know the limition of everything hardware wise better.

Installing software yeah I hate that part mostly just because it is annoying to do and takes a while. But that any computer including a mac. Installing on a clean drive just takes a long time getting everything you need/want. But the adatage of doing it that way is I know exactly what software I put on there. I dont have to deal with any extra crap being installed that I dont want nor do I have to pay for that extra stuff that I dont want and not even going to use (which you have to do with apple. Pay for extra software you will never really use, for me it would be most of iLife would never be isntalled)

It jsut you attack on home builts just has a lot of propiganda crap in it or errors.

Home built PC can be built with high quility parts than apple and yes cost less to build. But it comes at a price of spending the time of putting everything together and isntalling everything.

for a Tower I would always rather have it homebuilt because I know what I put in there and I have more control over the areas I want to expand it in and put high grade it with out having to pay extra for upgrades I dont want. I choose the brand of everything I want. I know the maker of all my parts (something you cannt do with apple)

 

[zero2dash]

You can keep trying to convince yourself that you get something unique from Apple, though. I'd be surprised if the Mac Pro motherboard is built from higher quality components than Asus' top-of-the-line Conroe board or that the PSU is of higher quality than any other PSUs from respected manufacturers.

I'm not trying to convince myself of Apple being special or above everyone else's products; what I do know is that I'd trust them with hardware "working" more than any other manufacturer out there. Consider this - how many companies can build standard PC parts? For instance, motherboards. How many motherboard manufacturers are there out there? Probably at least 15-20. Sure, we may primarily only hear about "bigger" ones, but there's more than those, because someone's gotta make the cheap stuff for the cheap computers.

Look at Apple. How many companies make the motherboards that go into their computers? Is there more than 1?

The point is - you're still getting hardware, sure. Who's to say how well it's tested before shipping to retail? Who's to say how stringent the manufacturing plant is in their QC department? etc. I'd rather trust a company who has 1 company building their parts than a company competing with 20 others building the same part.

This is a major problem for Apple. Sure, these forums are full of people that believe that they're getting "something special" when they're buying an Apple box. Most others (atleast those with some computer knowledge) see a Mac as precisely what it is: just another computer. A pre-built machine from Dell or HP or a home built machine built from high quality components is quite likely to work just as well, hardwarewise, as a Mac.

People who see a Mac as a computer don't buy Macs; your point is moot. People with that mentality, who don't know what are the strongpoints of OSX, don't buy Macs, period. They'd rather save their money and buy an eMachine. And that eMachine may work well enough at first, if you can get rid of all the bloatware that comes factory standard on it. And maybe, just maybe if that user sets up their user account properly, and installs an antivirus and antispyware app, they can keep their computer humming along. But the truth of the matter is, that same John Q. Customer that thinks a Mac is "just another computer" that won't buy a Mac because they'd rather save the money on the eMachine most likely isn't smart enough to do those things. So, the computer isn't "just as good" in that case.

My internet habits don't seem to get me much in the way of viruses and spyware and Windows works fine for what I do. Don't get me wrong though, it would be nice to have OS X, but not with that price difference.

Apple needs to do something to appeal to customers like me, because I'm sure that I'm not alone thinking this way.

Considering that now there are viruses that are resident in image files placed on websites, or can be set in an image to take advantage of one of the many security holes in Windows, well - you don't have to be an avid pr0n surfer to get a virus. And you don't even need to have a computer that is unprotected; case-in-point: back when image-embedded viruses first made their rounds, how many AV apps actually stopped the virii from "doing their thing"? 1. Symantec AntiVirus Corporate Edition (the AV I run on both of my computers).

Hey, I'll reiterate. Don't spend the extra money on a Mac. Enjoy your Windows PC. Me = I'm tired of all the problems, and frankly, OSX is a much much better OS than Microsoft has and ever will put out. I can say "ever will put out" because they're still playing catch up trying to get as GOOD as OSX, let alone eclipse it. Wait 'til Leopard is announced; I guarantee you that Bill Gates will be watching, saying to himself "oh snap! we'd better make fast work and implement that into Vista!". And again, I'll reiterate - I've been a Windows-only user for the better half of 10 years now. And after almost 1 1/2 years of using OSX at work every day, I abso-frickin-lutely love it. I cannot wait to dump all my XP boxes and be able to run OSX legally at home.

you never built a computer before or using things that are not fair attacks on home builders. Installing OS, and downloading updates.... would have to do that on a mac as well and install software.

I've built 5 computers, and - no you don't have to install software on a Mac that you have to install on a PC; spyware + antivirus in particular.

As for the hardware I willing to bet money the computer I built 2 years ago the hardware in it is over all better quility (and the parts that are not are same lv) and cost less to build and get up and running.

I know for a fact the ram and the PSU are of high quility parts than apple uses. Mobo was good. HD was WD so it is as good if not better than what apple using. Opical drives are the ones apple uses just not rebranded so I paid less. CPU I say it the same lv. Graphic card is ATI.

In building computers it about chipsets and for the most part they all play nice.

I enjoy building my PC because I chose the parts I wanted and I know exactly what i put in there. It gives me the advatage of knowing how everything works and makes it easier to trace down problems if they ever come up plus I know the limition of everything hardware wise better.

True, but considering that Apple regulates who makes their parts (versus it being an "open market"), I guarantee you that you'll find better quality and craftsmanship out of a Mac. I'm not saying PC manufacturers make junk; hell I've built 3 computers around ECS mobos and I love ECS's products even though most people prefer Asus, Gigabyte, DFI, etc.

It jsut you attack on home builts just has a lot of propiganda crap in it or errors.

Home built PC can be built with high quility parts than apple and yes cost less to build. But it comes at a price of spending the time of putting everything together and isntalling everything.

for a Tower I would always rather have it homebuilt because I know what I put in there and I have more control over the areas I want to expand it in and put high grade it with out having to pay extra for upgrades I dont want. I choose the brand of everything I want. I know the maker of all my parts (something you cannt do with apple)

I don't see any "propoganda crap".
If you want to stay virus and spyware free in a Windows PC, you have to install programs + update them that keep that junk off the computer, right?

You don't have to do that on a Mac. Whether or not it's because they're x% of the market share, that's not the point. The point is - you don't have to do it.

And again - Apple chooses and regulates who builds their parts. Versus the fact that I'd almost bet that any company that springs up out of nowhere in a hole in the wall can apply for a license to build motherboards, RAM sticks, hard drives, etc. Who's to say how good the quality on those parts will be? It's not like it's regulated by the computing industry (if there even is one).

And sure, if you build a PC, you can replace broken parts. Fair enough. Doesn't that trouble you though? You spent all that money on a part that broke or malfunctioned for whatever reason...doesn't that bring doubt into your mind as to the quality of that part? What if you buy a Mac and you never have to buy another part for it again? Wouldn't that be a better solution? Doesn't that sort of negate the higher upfront cost? I'm not saying Macs are failsafe and never have problems, but across the board - who's more noteworthy in the public's eye as having shoddy computers that don't work for over 2 years? Companies like HP/Compaq, Dell, etc. Google "Dell exploding capacitors" and see how many news stories you find.

You pay the premium for a Mac - you get a better built, better performing, better running, (largely) trouble-free computer. And I'll say it again. I don't even own a Mac right now; I own 2 Windows XP computers...my desktop is a P4 3.0C, ECS 865PE mobo, 1g Corsair ValueSelect dual channel ram, 2 80g Samsung SpinPoint HDs, LiteOn 8x DVD -/+ R/RW burner, etc I built roughly 5 years ago that has been flawless ever since I built it, and my laptop is an HP Pavilion 4400 that was given to me for free that I just had to reinstall XP on. The computers I have built have been with quality, award-winning parts by reknowned manufacturers; I'm not using junk. My Mac experience up until a year and a half ago was the odd occasion that I used one at Kinkos to print customer files (primarily Quark) that they brought in during the 5 years that I worked there.

1 1/2 years after starting my current job as a graphic designer for a printing company - I love OSX and I love the G5 I work on every day. And I can't wait to have one at home. (Or, rather, a Mac Pro is what I'll be buying.)

 

[Timepass]

lots of random stuff

All I have to say is WTF
Apple compared to dell yeah I think apple will use better quility parts

Apple compared to homebuilder like me. Hmm I going to go with me on that one no agurment.
I go down the major componants

Cpu AMD or intel. Same level of quility there Better part niether

Mobo lets see appel users intel mobo. I can buy a mobo made by intel using intel chip set of same quility or better. If you go AMD route the good name brand 3rd party is at least the same level of quility (mobo on both cover sounds, eithernet and ports) Better part : neither

Ram... Lets see Apple we dont know who they use or what there timing are and it changes. Me I use kingstong high end stuff. High end name brand that apple not goign to go that high value (and I pay a lot less at well) Better part Me

Graphic card, Both use either ATI or nVidia so the same. Better part: Niether

hard drive As far as I know Apple users either WD or seagate which I would use (and i would be paying less) :Better part: niether

Opitical drives About the same most name brands use the same supplieir for there parts and rebrand them (quite offen it just an NEC drive) Better part: niether

PSU: Apple PSU is only going to be as strong as needed not allow for as much room on expainding and we have no clue on there rails or who makes them. I on the other had use a quility name brand (my case Antec) but it a good brand and I know a heck of a lot better anythign apple users Advatage Me

heck the only part in apple computers that is not a 3rd party off the shelf is there wireless card. Out side of that all the major parts in there computer is off the shelf stuff and when you go that route the homebuilder will always win in quality for less money.


As for installing software Apple did most of it for you but if you reformat the computer and start over the only differnce is on windows you have to add AV software and antispyware. Antispyware is on of the last things I get to. AV earily on Antispare be soem 30 sec thing I do at the end. Everythign else is the same. OS and updates and other software used. Mac only adtage there is the reduction of 2 pieces of software. Everything else is the same.


Thinking apple uses better parts that homebuilders.... wrong. home builders will always win out the battle in price to quility ratio and quite off build high quility computers for much much less.

Saying building a computer and find a problem later and saying that bugs me. not really since I never had a part really fail. It did help me trouble shoot once when it was having a problem (a plug on the mobo was lose because I didnt click it in). Mac users on same problem would of panic and not gone though and just made sure everythign was plug in correctly. only other thing that I had to replace was a bad part that came in on order. Been spoted on the first boot up at the factor and since I am the factor error like that fall under factor. Since then no hardware issues at all.

But you saying replacing broken parts on it... Um yeah I can replace them if they break. they break on a mac as well but oh wait you have to send it off to fix it (gonig to assume the warrenty out) that takes time and money. Compare that to a Home built PC who part failed out side of warrenty. Hmm figure out what broke pretty quickly drive out to the store buy replacement install it and boom done. down time of a few hours compared to down time several days. Plus less failures.

now from building it I can idea hardware issues on other people computers a lot quicker. Plus installing new stuff. Oh so much easier because I know what already in there and the limitation.

 

[milo]

So, to those people, the price premium paid will be more or less for OS X. Whether it's worth it or not probably depends on who the buyer is. To a porn surfing computer illiterate, it's probably heaven.

The rest of this post is fairly reasonable, but this bit is the stupidest thing I've read in a while. You really think OSX appeals most to clueless porn surfers???

 

[wizz0bang]

The rest of this post is fairly reasonable, but this bit is the stupidest thing I've read in a while. You really think OSX appeals most to clueless porn surfers???

It would shield them from a lot of nasty virii and spyware which they would contract if they were to do it on a PC!

 

[AidenShaw]

All I have to say is WTF...

I hope that you're not a native English speaker - but if you are it really makes me worry about what's coming out of American schools.

My French and German are pretty bad, and I thank those who smile and put up with my mistakes.... In English, however, you are welcome to rip me a new one when I screw up!

So, Timepass, you have some good thoughts, but sometimes it can be hard to decipher your postings.

 

[AidenShaw]

What's wrong with Pr0n ?

To a porn surfing computer illiterate,...

For some of us, it's quite lucrative .

 

[DrFrankTM]

It would shield them from a lot of nasty virii and spyware which they would contract if they were to do it on a PC!

For a good friend of mine, the relative immunity of OS X to virii and spyware was OS X's most compelling feature. No joke. And I think the same is true for many other people, porn-surfing or not.

___________

BEWARE: Long rant on the economics of a mid-range tower.

I really hope that Apple will come out with a mid-range, headless tower soon, but I think Apple is worried about the brand's image. It would represent a significant shift in Apple's way of doing things. Apple seems to think that unless you're a pro, you shouldn't be playing in your computer's innards, and that's probably a significant part of Apple hardware's reliability. (With mom and pop adding stuff to their Mac, there might be more hardware issues of all kinds, which might make Macs look less reliable than they now do.)

However, there's still a 95% non-Apple-computer market share out there, and there are profits to be made selling computers to some of these people. No need to beat Dell on pricing. Some people will pay more for the goodness of OS X. But at the moment, there's a huge part of the computer market that just doesn't find what it needs in Apple's line of products, and that mid-range tower could prove to be a really big thing if it ever saw the light of day. Think about the gamers. Won't someone PLEASE think about the gamers?!? I'm not a gamer, but with Boot Camp, I think Apple should now address the hardware question more seriously.

Apple has roughly 5% of the U.S. computer market - and slightly less for the world as a whole - so that leaves roughly 95% of the market as not-Apple-yet. That's much more than a few units, and much more than the MacPro market numbers. I don't know how many PowerMacs Apple sells every year, but it probably ain't all that many. Some people said that a single tower makes the unit price of each lower due to economies of scale, which is true, but the Pro market can afford to pay and won't really mind the price difference one way or the other.

It's in the mid-range that price matters a lot, because it's in the mid-range that consumers compare with Dell, Gateway, HP and such. And a second tower would enable Apple to choose less expensive parts and avoid a Pro-parts overkill in the mid-range, making the mid-range tower much more affordable than it would otherwise be. If you need all the Pro goodies, then you can get a MacPro. If you just want an expendable tower, though, and don't care about all the little extras of a truly "pro" machine, then you'd go with the mid-range (headless) model. The lower price of such a mid-range machine would probably mean much larger sales and much larger economies of scale where they count the most - in the mid-range.

I'm pretty sure we'll see a mid-range tower someday. I'm just not sure I'll like how long it might take.

P.S. The MacBook was a much better deal than I expected. I'm hoping we'll get as nice a surprise in the headless desktop department soon, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Multimedia]

Buy A G5 Quad For Less Than The Woody Quad, But Not Less Than You Can Already

My question is: What about them "old" cheese graters? Once the new intel ones come out, how will the non-intel towers change in terms of price? I don't know if those intel processors are worth getting so soon and the older guys might be my next purchase.

Good point, I wonder if Apple will keep the Quad G5 around for six more months to please pro users who want to continue using PPC software. Or will they have to buy from stock left on hand (including refurbs) at the time of the Intel MacPro announcement?

I'm in love with my G5 Quad and wouldn't give it up for anything less than a MacIntel with 8 cores next Spring. Meanwhile, I would note that after all the smoke and mirrors evaporate post WWDC, the G5 Quad will still be the second fastest Mac on earth. I think the multitasking advantage of 4 cores alone makes it much more desirable than any 2 core alternative no matter how fast they are running. G5 Quad refurbs have been $2799 since early February and I dont' see why that price won't hold after Mac Pro is fully revealed.

Call me old fashioned, but I think this first gen Intel series will be at a transitional level of power that will quickly be usurped by 4 and 8 core MacIntel Pros early next year. So I'd say you will have a choice of the G5 Quad or the much more expensive Woody Quad short term with much less costly 4 core Kentsfields and their 8 core cousins coming soon after January Mac World SF '07. I think that 2007 will introduce a series of computers that will give credence to the phrase "You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet" this year.

 

[Squire]

Good Point

...and I think the days of timing your purchases for right after an announcement are coming to an end. With the speed that intel is pumping out chips, Apple should be able to make little upgrades every couple of months or so. (I think these little upgrades will happen with greater frequency once the whole lineup goes intel.)

More so than ever before, those waiting for "the next great thing" to come along will be left hanging in a black hole of pre-decisional dissonance. In other words, with intel's roadmap publicized, you can make educated guesses on what processors will be in certain machines at a certain time. By the time you wait for processor 'A' with x number of cores, one with x+4 cores will be on the horizon.

Note: I'm not referring to the buying patterns of pros here, just the consumer who wants the best bang for the buck.


-Squire

 

[Mikael]

The rest of this post is fairly reasonable, but this bit is the stupidest thing I've read in a while. You really think OSX appeals most to clueless porn surfers???

Well, I've been fixing computers for friends for years and the most frequent cause for virus and spyware infections is heavy porn surfing. I'm sure that I would get a lot less to do if they all quit with it, or surfed the more reputable sites (if there is such a thing in the porn biz... ). It's my experience that if one doesn't surf porn or open strange e-mail attachments, the risk of being infected with all this crap is reduced to a minimum.

So, I'm not saying that OS X is just for porn surfers. I'm just saying that the people in my surroundings that would benefit the most probably are said group of people. Sad but true.

 

[PCPrabbit]

G5 Quads

I'm in love with my G5 Quad and wouldn't give it up for anything less than a MacIntel with 8 cores next Spring.

Thanks for the advice, I've been getting a lot of mixed advice recently, and this one seems pretty sound in terms of your experience.

Here's another question: How is the quality of the refurbished G5 towers. I bought a refurbished 40GB ipod last march and it has already crapped out on me. Also, would the G5 Quads still be available in the apple stores when the new intel towers come out or will the online store be the only choice?

 

[milo]

So, I'm not saying that OS X is just for porn surfers. I'm just saying that the people in my surroundings that would benefit the most probably are said group of people. Sad but true.

Thanks for the clarification, sorry I jumped down your throat.

 

[Multimedia]

Refurbished Macs Are As Good As New

Thanks for the advice, I've been getting a lot of mixed advice recently, and this one seems pretty sound in terms of your experience.

Here's another question: How is the quality of the refurbished G5 towers. I bought a refurbished 40GB ipod last march and it has already crapped out on me. Also, would the G5 Quads still be available in the apple stores when the new intel towers come out or will the online store be the only choice?

Sorry to hear about your iPod problem. I would always buy an iPod with the 2 year protection program.

I don't know if Apple will sell G5 Quads new in their stores after the Intel Quads come out. I doubt it. You do know about the online SAVE page where the refurbs are right? It's the red tag link lower right on the Apple Store Page.

I have purchased several refurbished Macs over the years and never found them to be anything less than like new. There are exceptions. But you are covered by the same as new warranty to have any imperfections fixed right away for free. One bonus on the refurbs is that they often arrive with more inside than the base you thought you were buying. For example my Quad came with two 1GB modules instead of the two 256MB modules base spec. Previous G5's I have bought refurb all came with extra RAM as well as bigger hard drives than base. I think having the patience to wait for models to move to the refurb page is the best value way to buy Macs.

When the Quad went refurb in only 3 months after release in early February - and still remains there every day - for only $2799, I was able to sell my NEW dual 2.5GHz G5 (I bought at Fry's last Spring '05 for only $1999 on closeout) for $2500. I only bought that new one because it was being sold on closeout for less than the refurbs. Selling the dual 2.5 in February was probably the last moment when they would ever fetch that much again. Point being that you can advance from one model to the next for less money if you buy each one either at a retailer's closeout sale or from the SAVE refurb page.

Models are moving to the refurb page faster than ever now. The Quad in 3 months was a record until the MacBooks made it in about 3 WEEKS. All the 15" MacBook Pros are up there and have been for quite a while as well. So I would encourage anyone with the patience to buy what you want from the refurb page once they get there. You need to check that page several times a day to get what you want ASAP. What's being offered changes rapidly according to who else wants that model and like you is looking for a bargain. And models come and go like the rain on that page.

For the life of me, I can't understand why the Quad G5 has been on that page every day since February. I think it's an amazing Mac and wonder how so many became refurbished to remain available @ $2799. Must be a huge number of corporate clients returning them in mass for so many to remain. OR perhaps no one thinks they should by one since the MacIntel Quads are coming soon. Remember, they run classic and they have 4 cores. IE They are unique in the history of PowerMacs and will remain so forever.

One more thing you should know - they run DEAD SILENT. This fact is seldom mentioned. But it is a feature many value highly as should anyone working with sound recordings or who just doesn't want to hear their Macs' fans.

This is one model I will not be selling when I get my 8 core MacIntel Pro next year. It's a keeper.

 

[wizz0bang]

I have purchased several refurbished Macs over the years and never found them to be anything less than like new. There are exceptions. But you are covered by the same as new warranty to have any imperfections fixed right away for free. One bonus on the refurbs is that they often arrive with more inside than the base you thought you were buying. For example my Quad came with two 1GB modules instead of the two 256MB modules base spec. Previous G5's I have bought refurb all came with extra RAM as well as bigger hard drives than base. I think having the patience to wait for models to move to the refurb page is the best value way to buy Macs.

One more thing you should know - they run DEAD SILENT. This fact is seldom mentioned. But it is a feature many value highly as should anyone working with sound recordings or who just doesn't want to hear their Macs' fans.

This is one model I will not be selling when I get my 8 core MacIntel Pro next year. It's a keeper.

Droooool..... I'd love to have a machine with that much power and run "DEAD SILENT" Droooool. That would be highly valued by me... my 12" powerbook makes far too much noise for my taste (and runs HOT!).

Did your Quad also have an airport card built in? They don't let you add options like that on the refurb page, so if you don't luck out, a trip to an authorized dealer would be needed to get one installed. That is very cool that you got 2GB ram for free

 

[PCPrabbit]

I don't know if Apple will sell G5 Quads new in their stores after the Intel Quads come out. I doubt it. You do know about the online SAVE page where the refurbs are right? It's the red tag link lower right on the Apple Store Page.

Wow, I didn't expect such detailed and poignant advice from a free forum. This site and its contributors are a rare find. Thanks multi for your advice. I proabably will buy a quad from the refurb within the next month.

 

[Multimedia]

Airport Cards Are Self Installed By You

Droooool..... I'd love to have a machine with that much power and run "DEAD SILENT" Droooool. That would be highly valued by me... my 12" powerbook makes far too much noise for my taste (and runs HOT!).

Did your Quad also have an airport card built in? They don't let you add options like that on the refurb page, so if you don't luck out, a trip to an authorized dealer would be needed to get one installed. That is very cool that you got 2GB ram for free

Airport Cards Are Self Installed By You. You just buy a refurbished Airport card at the same time and put it in. Takes about a minute. Nothing to it. The Airport antenna is included.