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Mac Studio being obsoleted by new Mac Pro?!

Jorbanead said:
The 2017 iMac Pro is looking at you.

And for all we know, the 2019 Mac Pro design will also not be used ever again. It seems very large for Apple Silicon. There’s likely no need for all those PCIe slots (maybe only a few).
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It was so we could stuff in heaps of storage and lots of add-on cards and a pair of W6800X Duos (64GB each) and 1.5TB RAM. ;)

I looked very closely at the Studio at the maximum specification (it would have been cheaper) but the need to use Windows 11 natively meant I went the MacPro 7,1. It also let me use my existing NVME storage easily, I just put the card in and it worked.

I have Ventura on the Mac side and on another drive Windows 11 for Workstations. Windows was a real surprise - it loads and runs very quickly. I'm going to add a second W6800X soon and a bit more ram and that's it.

I'm not really taking sides in the apparent civil war between Studio and Mac Pro, they each have their purpose.

I am a twice Mac Pro customer (one 2010 machine and the 2019). The other two were second hand purchases, the 6,1 I upgraded the processor to the maximum.
 
theluggage said:
I think the rumors that make sense are of a 15" M2 MacBook Air alongside the 16" MBP - for people who just want more screen area for undemanding work without needing the extra CPU/GPU power and I/O capability of a Mx Pro/Max chip (for which Apple charge quite a premium).

In any case, consumer MacBooks sell in multiple millions so Apple can afford to spread that between multiple overlapping models (or the 13" MBP wouldn't exist and the M1 Air wouldn't have hung around). Desktops probably sell a fraction of those numbers so too much overlap would make some models uneconomical (by Apple's standards, not those of a smaller enterprise - they probably don't get out of bed for sales of less than a million).



Plenty of other uses for PCIe slots - M.2 storage, specialist audio interfaces, Fibre Channel, heck even adding a load of top-level USB 2 ports to drive MIDI & audio devices with low latency (TB docks tend to end up connecting USB 2/3 devices via under multiple layers of internal hubs shared with other devices). If you have the slots, pretty much any such functionality which you could connect externally via Thunderbolt can be done more cheaply, neatly and reliably by plugging in the appropriate PCIe card.

However, its GPUs that tend to actually benefit from x16 slots whereas a lot of other uses would be viable in a TB-to-PCIe enclosure - and the 'clutter' issue could be addressed by rack mounting everything (spendy - but so is a Mac Pro).

The question is, how many "pro" users who rely on PCIe slots mainly for supporting existing hardware are actually ready and able to switch to ARM, or even to be forced onto the latest MacOS, which may not support their existing devices or specialist software? If you're starting a workflow from scratch, doing everything with new, external thunderbolt/USB-C devices (possibly rackmount) might be viable.
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I am one of those Mac Studio Ultra users and hence I have 2 TB3 Sonnet BreakawayBox x16 PCIe enclosures, an Akitio Thunder 2 PCIe enclosure and the OWC Plus a Thunderbay 4 for hard disk storage.

Coming from the Mac Pro 5,1 / Hackintosh to the Studio, I'm used to the expandability and I can say everything works the same in external chassis as they did in internal slots. Including Highpoint SSD7101-A expansion cards with multiple NVMe SSD. I'd happily use one of the breakout boxes for an egpu if it's ever supported.

I've managed expansion overload by placing the expansion gear on a separate lower shelving unit off to the side of my desk along with Mac Studio on its side in a mini tower configuration. Having access to the front and back of the gear makes it easy to manage any of the cables as needed.
 
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Jorbanead said:
The 2017 iMac Pro is looking at you.

And for all we know, the 2019 Mac Pro design will also not be used ever again. It seems very large for Apple Silicon. There’s likely no need for all those PCIe slots (maybe only a few).
Click to expand...
iMac Pro isn’t really a whole new product though is it... And Apple have never released a new chip tech (Intel and now ARM) in a new chassis. They tend to stick it in the old chassis, then update the design next time around.

We shall see…
 
The mac studio was a home run for a lot of apple customers. It gave users like me all the power we needed without the pci-e expandability which was useless for a lot of people. I'm very happy with my 16" mbp max and studio with ultra, it fits my workflow perfectly. I was 100% on team Mac Pro until they made this announcement. I couldn't order the machine fast enough.

For these reasons, I don't think they'll discontinue the Mac Pro. The Mac Pro has its own market that was untouched by the Mac Studio. When the 2019 came out I simply couldn't justify the cost for the spec I wanted. It felt like a lot of money to invest into the wrong thing.
 
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sn1p3r845 said:
The Mac Studio was a home run for a lot of Apple customers. It gave users like me all the power we needed without the PCIe expandability which was useless for a lot of people.
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I am still using my Mid 2010 "cheese grater" Mac Pro. When I first bought it (used) in 2011, it cost me US $4,150 and it had a single 3.33 GHz CPU tray, 8 GB of RAM, the original NVIDIA GeForce GT120 video card, original DVD-ROM drive, and 4x2 TB drives (in a RAID5 config with an Apple RAID Card). I forget what the original boot disk was.

In the last 11 years I upgraded the RAM from 8 GB to 24 GB, the video card to an AMD RADEON Sapphire 7950 Mac Edition, a Pioneer Blu-ray drive, and a 512 GB SSD boot drive. (The only thing I didn't do is add a USB-C PCI card or replace the single CPU with a dual-tray model.)

These upgrades have kept the machine relevant and useful to me over that timeframe. (I've also repaired/replaced the motherboard and the PSU in that time. What's going to happen if the PSU or the MB goes out in the Mac Studio? They better offer a "permanent AppleCare+" option for these things.)

I think the Mac Studio is a fine system, but I've hesitated to buy one - not only because of the incidents of "whine" but also because I really wonder what a Gen-1 system is going to be like in 10 years. I really miss the modularity and upgradeability of a Mac Pro.
 
Riot Nrrrd said:
I think the Mac Studio is a fine system, but I've hesitated to buy one - not only because of the incidents of "whine" but also because I really wonder what a Gen-1 system is going to be like in 10 years. I really miss the modularity and upgradeability of a Mac Pro.
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The "whine" thing is a bummer. I'm lucky in that either mine doesn't do it or I can't hear it.

The lack of upgradeability is a bummer for all Apple stuff (save the Pro I guess). I've just come to accept it. I get the laptops in specs for my current needs because I change them out every few years. When I get a desktop, I spec it up because I keep them for a long time. Still running our 2015 iMac w/ 32 GB RAM. I put the RAM in myself (from OWC) The issue now is that the RAM is so expensive from Apple. I got my base Studio for $1800 and with 64 GB it would have been like $600 more. I couldn't do that. But I am worried that in a couple of years 32 GB won't be enough. So far it's terrific, but who knows.
 
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Sharky II said:
iMac Pro isn’t really a whole new product though is it...
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The internals were completely redone in every way, and the chassis was changed to accommodate the cooling and ports. In many ways it was a new product.

Sharky II said:
Apple have never released a new chip tech (Intel and now ARM) in a new chassis. They tend to stick it in the old chassis, then update the design next time around.
Click to expand...
They released the M2 in a new chassis? I’m not sure what you mean.
 
The M2 is not a new architecture, i.e. going from intel to ARM. ARM MacBooks and MBA are already established.

Every time they went from intel to ARM (or IBM to intel), they kept the same chassis.

We're talking about the chances of the Mac Pro keeping the same chassis or not.

But what do I know... Apple will do whatever they like, regardless of past experience.

If they are losing the ability to add RAM they might indeed want to package it as a 'different thing' to hide any perceived deficiencies
 
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My take it might not be that the mac studio is obsolete, but the market might not support a new mac studio. Take me for example, I plan on using my Mac Studio Max for a long time and have no plans on buying a studio 2.0. I would guess there are many who think the same way.
 
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Strider64 said:
My take it might not be that the mac studio is obsolete, but the market might not support a new mac studio. Take me for example, I plan on using my Mac Studio Max for a long time and have no plans on buying a studio 2.0. I would guess there are many who think the same way.
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It's almost impossible for me imagine upgrading my Studio. I can almost guarantee that I will buy a new laptop to replace my MBP14 way before I do anything with the Studio. It does everything I want it to do. Why buy a new one?
 
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Sharky II said:
The M2 is not a new architecture, i.e. going from intel to ARM. ARM MacBooks and MBA are already established.

Every time they went from intel to ARM (or IBM to intel), they kept the same chassis.

We're talking about the chances of the Mac Pro keeping the same chassis or not.

But what do I know... Apple will do whatever they like, regardless of past experience.

If they are losing the ability to add RAM they might indeed want to package it as a 'different thing' to hide any perceived deficiencies
Click to expand...
Oh I see. The way you worded it was confusing. Though still not fully correct as the iMac was an Apple silicon first gen product and it came with a new design. The MacBook Pro 16” was also first gen and received a new design as well. The 14” which was the successor to the 13” higher-end Pro also came with a new design.

So in reality many of apples products came with new designs on their first generation. It was only the Air, low-end Pro, and Mac mini that did not get new designs - but those were the first ever macs with Apple silicon.
 
cpnotebook80 said:
Looks like the mac studio/mini owners are the 1% based on the stats from this video . So it will be interesting to see how apple plays this in 2023.
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I'm slightly suspicious of that data - Apple doesn't provide sales data by model so I wonder where that is coming from.

But if it's even close, it's not a good sign for the Studio. I have to agree with Vadim that it likely means Apple will ignore the Studio for several years. They'll keep selling it but not updating it. For those of us that own it, I guess that's not especially bad news. It isn't as if it is a product you'd likely change out every year or two (at least I wouldn't).
 
Jorbanead said:
I think the lineup will look like this:

Mac Studio: Max & Ultra
Mac Pro: Ultra & Extreme

I think there’s going to be overlap in the Ultra chips. The Mac Pro selling point could be more ports, slotted SSD so you can upgrade, and potentially PCIe slots as well. So if you want more modularity and upgradability, you’d get the Mac Pro.

EDIT: PCIe slots are not just for graphics cards. Many professionals use them for other reasons. I’d guess a new Mac Pro would only have a few slots. Much less than 2019.
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I think that they'll add $1,000 to the price just for the bigger case and drilling out the holes.
 
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pshufd said:
I guess it would turn into a collectable.
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Seems like I'm the KOD on Apple products lately. I love the Studio - sounds like it's unpopular and headed for the heap and I own a iPhone 13 mini which I also love. Based on the sales data I guess I'm the only person on the planet with those two devices!
 
lowendlinux said:
No I expect to the Mac Pro to move up market in price like I said
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ROI wouldn’t make sense for that in all honesty. The higher-end Mac Pro’s are not going to sell enough units to warrant its own special case design.
 
M1 Mac Studio = $2K
M1 Ultra Mac Studio = $4K
M2 Ultra Mac Pro = $6K

No need to increase the pricing of the base ASi Mac Pro...
 
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