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JMacHack

Suspended
Mar 16, 2017
1,965
2,417
No, I am with you 100%. Leather would at least have some appeal. Some spongy synthetic car interior material? Not so much. Sounds like it would be a dust and crumb magnet too.

But maybe you could hang one of those little pine air fresheners from it? Or really go all 70's super-suede retro with a lava lamp :)
I guess the train of thought was that it would be there because it would feel good on your arms for long typing sessions, which I can understand but there would be some cushion necessary there, and then you get into heat dissipation issues...
 

SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
4,360
4,324
Highlands Ranch, CO
I guess the train of thought was that it would be there because it would feel good on your arms for long typing sessions, which I can understand but there would be some cushion necessary there, and then you get into heat dissipation issues...

Yeah, and once it got warm, wouldn't it just absorb sweat and after years, you know, get kind of nasty? At least with a car interior, they can periodically steam clean it. Not so easy with a laptop.
 

Altis

macrumors 68040
Sep 10, 2013
3,082
4,761
Is there any reason you've narrowed it down to these choices? They don't seem to really be your cup of tea.

You could always consider something like a Samsung Note 9 for lightness, or Yoga 720 if you want the touch/pen. Both seem to be quite good.
 
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leman

macrumors P6
Oct 14, 2008
17,413
15,475
but there would be some cushion necessary there, and then you get into heat dissipation issues...

Now I understand why Microsoft opts to use cheapest low-wattage CPU variants :p

On a more serious note, I am also curios how that material fares with time. If I understand it correctly, the sheet of Alcantara is glued to laptop body. I wonder whether dislocations of the edges will become an issue.
 

Samuelsan2001

macrumors 604
Oct 24, 2013
7,730
2,153
Any of the three seem perfectly appropriate for your use, along with just about any small light moderately powerful laptop just buy what you like to use after testing them out.
 

richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
2,210
1,948
No, I am with you 100%. Leather would at least have some appeal. Some spongy synthetic car interior material? Not so much. Sounds like it would be a dust and crumb magnet too.

But maybe you could hang one of those little pine air fresheners from it? Or really go all 70's super-suede retro with a lava lamp :)

Its actually a very high quality material which is perfect of this use. I was going to use it on my products but their service was a disgrace.

Maybe you should tell apple not to use it on their iPad keyboards too, or is it acceptable on a Mac product but not Microsoft?
 

zen

macrumors 68000
Jun 26, 2003
1,713
472
Surface Laptop, for sure, if only because it has a much, much better keyboard than Apple's butterfly one.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
71,250
40,113
Surface Laptop, for sure, if only because it has a much, much better keyboard than Apple's butterfly one.
Surface Laptop
Pros as I see it (without using or seeing it yet).
Keyboard
Battery
Display

Negatives
No USB-C
The fabric material - not sure how that will wear over time. I'm reminded of the Ti Powerbook and how the finish wore off and it looked awful.

Now I understand why Microsoft opts to use cheapest low-wattage CPU variants :p
Are they not using the same CPU as the nTB MBP (other then being Kaby Lake)? Besides, I'd rather take that processor over the one used in the MacBook.
 

576316

macrumors 601
May 19, 2011
4,056
2,556
That, as usual, depends on your specific needs. If you need macOS apps, then go with the MacBook. But if you're pretty free with your OS, and all you need to do is web and document browsing, a Surface product (not necessarily the Surface Laptop) would be a fine choice. Just remember, if you get the Surface Laptop, you will have to load a different version of Windows 10 onto it if you want to have freedom of programs, otherwise you're restricted to the wasteland that is the Windows app store.

But the Surface range of products are great, and I don't think you can go wrong. Though as others have mentioned, they might not be such a price cut still.
 

zen

macrumors 68000
Jun 26, 2003
1,713
472
Negatives
No USB-C
The fabric material - not sure how that will wear over time. I'm reminded of the Ti Powerbook and how the finish wore off and it looked awful.
I understand it is the same fabric they use on the Surface Pro keyboards, right? I'm not sure how long those keyboards have been available - what do they look like after a few years?
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
71,250
40,113
I understand it is the same fabric they use on the Surface Pro keyboards,
Is it? I'm not saying it is or isn't as I don't know. With that said, my Surface Pro 3 keyboard did hold up nicely. Perhaps it may not be a negative but a questionable item right now :)
 

leman

macrumors P6
Oct 14, 2008
17,413
15,475
Are they not using the same CPU as the nTB MBP (other then being Kaby Lake)? Besides, I'd rather take that processor over the one used in the MacBook.

They are using a lower-tier CPU in the i5 variant (HD 620 instead of HD Iris 640) and the higher-tier i7 with HD Iris 640. The nTB MBP is using the HD Iris 640 variant.

Of course, the decisive benefit of the Surface Laptop is the Kaby Lake CPU. Apple should update their line to Kaby Lake ASAP. I am not really sure what Apple's management is thinking here to be honest, these delays cause a lot of damage to Apple's reputation as a tech leader.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
71,250
40,113
They are using a lower-tier CPU in the i5 variant (HD 620 instead of HD Iris 640) and the higher-tier i7 with HD Iris 640. The nTB MBP is using the HD Iris 640 variant.
I noticed the GPU being used, but I wasn't sure about the CPU, and how it lines up against Intel other CPUs

Apple should update their line to Kaby Lake ASAP
We'll not see anything until the fall - at least that's my guess.

Believe me, I'm waiting to see what Apple does to finalize my buying decision, so the sooner they roll out new MBPs the better I can make an informed decision ;)
 

leman

macrumors P6
Oct 14, 2008
17,413
15,475
I noticed the GPU being used, but I wasn't sure about the CPU, and how it lines up against Intel other CPUs

I assume that Microsoft is using the i5-7200U (up to 3.1Ghz, 3MB L3 cache, no L4 cache) — but they could also use the 400Mhz faster 7300U. Apple uses the i5-6360U (up to 3.1Ghz, 4MB L3 cache, 64MB L4 cache). Given that the clocks are the same, the MBP should have slightly better CPU compared to the i5-7200U.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
71,250
40,113
I assume that Microsoft is using the i5-7200U (up to 3.1Ghz, 3MB L3 cache, no L4 cache) — but they could also use the 400Mhz faster 7300U. Apple uses the i5-6360U (up to 3.1Ghz, 4MB L3 cache, 64MB L4 cache). Given that the clocks are the same, the MBP should have slightly better CPU compared to the i5-7200U.
At this point in CPU performance, I'm less worked up about which one is faster, though a fast GPU is something that I would notice a difference in.
 
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zen

macrumors 68000
Jun 26, 2003
1,713
472
Is it? I'm not saying it is or isn't as I don't know. With that said, my Surface Pro 3 keyboard did hold up nicely. Perhaps it may not be a negative but a questionable item right now :)
Yeah, it's mentioned in one of the hands-on videos (which also said it was very comfortable to use). Very keen to see one of these in person. I was looking at going with a Surface Book, but it seems like this might be the laptop I was looking for.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
71,250
40,113
I was looking at going with a Surface Book, but it seems like this might be the laptop I was looking for.
I'm happy with my Surface Book, but if I didn't own that, then the Surface Laptop may be on my short list.

What's funny is that the SB has a 13.5 display but uses a higher resolution.
Display
Screen: 13.5"PixelSense Display
Resolution: 3000 x 2000 (267 PPI)
Aspect ratio: 3:2
Touch: 10 point multi-touch

Surface Laptop
13.5 in PixelSense Display
Resolution: 2256 x 1504 (201 PPI)
Aspect ratio 3:2
3.4 million pixels
Surface Pen1 enabled
Touch: 10-point multi-touch
Corning Gorilla Glass

Some may complain about that, but with my old eyes, I wonder if that would make it make more readable for me :)
 
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zen

macrumors 68000
Jun 26, 2003
1,713
472
I'm happy with my Surface Book, but if I didn't own that, then the Surface Laptop may be on my short list.

What's funny is that the SB has a 13.5 display but uses a higher resolution.
Display
Screen: 13.5"PixelSense Display
Resolution: 3000 x 2000 (267 PPI)
Aspect ratio: 3:2
Touch: 10 point multi-touch

Surface Laptop
13.5 in PixelSense Display
Resolution: 2256 x 1504 (201 PPI)
Aspect ratio 3:2
3.4 million pixels
Surface Pen1 enabled
Touch: 10-point multi-touch
Corning Gorilla Glass

Some may complain about that, but with my old eyes, I wonder if that would make it make more readable for me :)
This is where my knowledge of current Windows laptops breaks down - does the Surface Book/Pro use pixel-doubling/whatever-you-call-it to produce a high-DPI image like a retina display? I assume it does, given those very large resolution numbers. The Surface Laptop seems to sit just below my current 13" MacBook Pro in terms of raw screen res (2560 x 1600, 227 PPI). What display res to the Microsoft screens run at?
 

leman

macrumors P6
Oct 14, 2008
17,413
15,475
At this point in CPU performance, I'm less worked up about which one is faster, though a fast GPU is something that I would notice a difference in.

Well, the most relevant thing is that the CPU in the Surface Laptop is cheaper. My biggest issue with the product is that MS charges essentially the same price as what the MBP costs (especially for the higher-tier models), while using cheaper components. And its true across the board: CPU/WiFi/display/connectivity etc.
[doublepost=1493985011][/doublepost]
This is where my knowledge of current Windows laptops breaks down -
does the Surface Book/Pro use pixel-doubling/whatever-you-call-it to produce a high-DPI image like a retina display?

No, Windows uses other approach to produce HiDPI content. You have a DPI scaler and apps are responsible for drawing correct content themselves. There is no HiDPI backing store like what you have in OS X. This is why you still get issues with many applications and DPI scaling on Windows. There are also other considerations, like image quality, but that is more complex discussion.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
71,250
40,113
WOW, you already have the Surface Laptop! I like what I have read about it.
As mentioned, I own a Surface Book
2017-05-05_7-52-56.png 2017-05-05_7-53-17.png

Its a great machine, though if there is one thing I wished differently, it would be a 15" laptop. My old eyes prefer a larger display at this point :D
 

TonyK

macrumors 65816
May 24, 2009
1,032
148
Forget the operating systems used. Forget the hardware. If OP moves from OS X to Windows there will be the additional cost of replacing software.

Now if this is their only system, that is fine. But if they, like me, have additional systems, then they will be living 1 foot in each world and supporting software out of both. Early on I decided to be OS X only at the house when converting from Windows to Apple in 2009. At work I'm still Windows based but my employer incurs the cost of that support.

So in addition to the money needed to upgrade/change systems be sure to inventory paid for software and what it would cost to change operating systems.
 

SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
4,360
4,324
Highlands Ranch, CO
Maybe you should tell apple not to use it on their iPad keyboards too, or is it acceptable on a Mac product but not Microsoft?

I haven't told either company to stop using it, so saying I should tell apple to stop using it too doesn't make a lot of sense. That said, the iPad keyboard is full of fail. If I thought apple would actually listen to me, I would tell them to redesign that from the ground up, including the laser cut material surrounding the keys, that gives them a rough, dead and unpleasant feel. It gets generally poor reviews.
 
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