Macbook Pro 2016 keyboard ergonomy

[sojers92]

Hello and Merry Christmas!

It has been one week now with the new Macbook Pro 2016 and coming from a non retina pro mid 2012 the new keyboard seems quite hard to get used - not talking about the key travel, but about the size. The hands are unnaturaly close toward the center and after few minutes of typing my hands and wrists feel tired.

Is it someone experiencing the same? Or is it just about something that needs time?

 

[GtrDude]

Yes, same experience.
Plus the keyboard feel, sound and key travel is beyond disastrous.
This is the worst thing that could possibly happen to someone like me who likes Mac, has used them since late 80's and wants to stay with them BUT I use the keyboard 8 hours a day.
How can Apple expect people to use this keyboard for anything more than just a few minutes at a time?
Not a pro machine. My trusty 2014 MacBook Air is more pro than this new expensive toy.

 

[CaptRB]

Hello and Merry Christmas!

It has been one week now with the new Macbook Pro 2016 and coming from a non retina pro mid 2012 the new keyboard seems quite hard to get used - not talking about the key travel, but about the size. The hands are unnaturaly close toward the center and after few minutes of typing my hands and wrists feel tired.

Is it someone experiencing the same? Or is it just about something that needs time?

Give it a bit more time. Most people eventually adapt and prefer the new keyboard. Apple did a lot of tests and found exactly that.

Obviously a few users will fall between the cracks and not adapt. You can't make everyone happy.

My wife and I adapted pretty fast. Oddly, my 12 year old didn't like it and complained for weeks. A month later he decided he loved it. Of course not everyone will.

Good luck,

R.

 

[Queen6]

Hello and Merry Christmas!

It has been one week now with the new Macbook Pro 2016 and coming from a non retina pro mid 2012 the new keyboard seems quite hard to get used - not talking about the key travel, but about the size. The hands are unnaturaly close toward the center and after few minutes of typing my hands and wrists feel tired.

Is it someone experiencing the same? Or is it just about something that needs time?

Highly subjective, however worst keyboard ever introduced to the MBP IMHO. I have a Retina MackBook (25 months employed professionally), initially I liked the "clicky" nature of the KB, however over time I have grown to dislike this low travel KB. Tried the 13" & 15" 2016 MBP both returned. Yet again it's form over function dictating. I may give the 2017 15" MBP a try, equally have low expectations.

I use my systems professionally, the KB is a significant factor in the purchasing decision as I write & construct complex technical documents. Apple should have focused on improving the typing experience, not solely making the notebook's chassis thinner, just to WOW the masses.

I can live with the rMB as it's a business traveler, good enough for email etc. MBP I've moved on to more productive hardware. Apple's sole focus of making their hardware ever thinner is simply now an exercise in ever diminishing returns and that I don't need...

Q-6

 

[GtrDude]

Apple should have focused on improving the typing experience, not making the notebook's chassis thinner, just to WOW the masses.

I have MBPs and know a lot of people who have them.
Not one person I know of, or reviews I read, or You Tube reviews I saw, ever said "gee...if only the MacBook Pro was thinner".

This is so completely pulled out of the air for Apple, it's stunning. And that on a Pro machine.

I can see them doing this on the MacBook or the MacBook Air, but never on a Pro machine.
Plus take away all the ports.

If they had only done this on those two machines I can imagine many members on this forum saying "don't get the MacBook or the MacBook Air the keyboard totally sucks, save up and get the MacBook Pro"......lol

 

[CaptRB]

I have MBPs and know a lot of people who have them.
Not one person I know of, or reviews I read, or You Tube reviews I saw, ever said "gee...if only the MacBook Pro was thinner".

This is so completely pulled out of the air for Apple, it's stunning. And that on a Pro machine.

I can see them doing this on the MacBook or the MacBook Air, but never on a Pro machine.
Plus take away all the ports.

If they had only done this on those two machines I can imagine many members on this forum saying "don't get the MacBook or the MacBook Air the keyboard totally sucks, save up and get the MacBook Pro"......lol

Plenty of people here are happier with the thinner and smaller size. I know I am.

I'm crazy that way. I bought a PORTABLE computer, so why would I want a larger heavier one?

So I dumped my 2015 15" dinoMac and now have this beautiful sleek 13" and 15" touchbar models. They best my old machine in every important aspect and USB-C works with every device I encounter. Looking forward to the next MBP.


R.

 

[turbineseaplane]

One of the main problems I've had with the new keyboards (I'm back on a 2015 now) is that I simply can't relax and rest my fingers with them. They are so low travel and so super sensitive that no matter how long I used them (had several models), it was just never comfortable in the way most keyboards are for me.

I tend to "think" with my fingers a bit and don't benefit at all from having super low resistance on key presses. It ends up resulting in lots of mistaken key inputs and deleting and just makes me... just not relaxed when using the board - it's the best way I can describe it.

I happened to be in the Apple store today as I was killing 10 minutes waiting for someone and I saddled up to the 15" 2017 and, just some light typing for 2-3 minutes and my hands were not happy. It takes me too much effort to not make a keystroke basically.

I really find it frustrating that this is the direction they are going across all of them.

I'd really hoped that the Magic Keyboard would make its way to the MBP's instead of modified version of what they put on the rMB.

 

[aevan]

I have MBPs and know a lot of people who have them.
Not one person I know of, or reviews I read, or You Tube reviews I saw, ever said "gee...if only the MacBook Pro was thinner".

Not that I'm saying every decision Apple ever made was correct (far from it) but their entire success is based on not waiting for people to say what they want, but telling people what they want instead. It was literally Steve Jobs' philosophy. People don't always know what they want until you show it to them.

BTW, sure, no one said they wanted their MBP thinner. But I know a lot of people who, after using the new ones, tried the old one and said "wow, this is so big and heavy". They talked about this a few episodes ago on ATP, and I've heard it personally. Also, as was mentioned many times before, people tend to buy smaller, thinner and lighter notebooks, given the choice. It seems they actually DO want them thinner. And before you say it: I'm not only talking about average consumers, but professional users too.

 

[CaptRB]

Not that I'm saying every decision Apple ever made was correct (far from it) but their entire success is based on not waiting for people to say what they want, but telling people what they want instead. It was literally Steve Jobs' philosophy. People don't always know what they want until you show it to them.

BTW, sure, no one said they wanted their MBP thinner. But I know a lot of people who, after using the new ones, tried the old one and said "wow, this is so big and heavy". They talked about this a few episodes ago on ATP, and I've heard it personally. Also, as was mentioned many times before, people tend to buy smaller, thinner and lighter notebooks, given the choice. It seems they actually DO want them thinner. And before you say it: I'm not only talking about average consumers, but professional users too.

One week with the new MBP and my 2015 15" did indeed feel like a dated brick. The difference on paper is not that big, but carrying it around is another matter. My 15" is only a bit bigger than my MB Air! The size advantage on the new machines is very real and as usual Apple didn't do this blindly. They surveyed many professionals in the field and it's not shocking that people using portable machines wanted MORE portable machines. Ounces matter. Ask any photographer who trades older lenses for new lighter versions.


R.

 

[GtrDude]

One of the main problems I've had with the new keyboards (I'm back on a 2015 now) is that I simply can't relax and rest my fingers with them. They are so low travel and so super sensitive that no matter how long I used them (had several models), it was just never comfortable in the way most keyboards are for me.

I tend to "think" with my fingers a bit and don't benefit at all from having super low resistance on key presses. It ends up resulting in lots of mistaken key inputs and deleting and just makes me... just not relaxed when using the board - it's the best way I can describe it.

I agree. I found it very annoying that my fingers basically couldn't touch the keyboard or something would happen.
I'm also back on a 2015 plus my trusty MB Air.

It used to be that in the Mac vs. Windows the biggest difference was the OS.

We still have a big difference in the OS but I can just imagine that a few years from now this will come down to who likes the keyboard and the giant mouse pad.

Mac users will be the people who are ok with this one new keyboard that is step away from typing on a tablet screen and everyone else will get something else.

I think Apple will lose big on this in the long run.
Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[leman]

I have MBPs and know a lot of people who have them.
Not one person I know of, or reviews I read, or You Tube reviews I saw, ever said "gee...if only the MacBook Pro was thinner".

This is so completely pulled out of the air for Apple, it's stunning. And that on a Pro machine.

And here we go again. Do tell us, what kind of drawback do you see from the laptop being thinner?
[doublepost=1497377471][/doublepost]

It has been one week now with the new Macbook Pro 2016 and coming from a non retina pro mid 2012 the new keyboard seems quite hard to get used - not talking about the key travel, but about the size.

The keyboard size is more or less identical to the previous models? The main difference are larger and more stable keys on the newer ones. I can't even type on the old-gen keyboard anymore.

 

[CaptRB]

And here we go again. Do tell us, what kind of drawback do you see from the laptop being thinner?
[doublepost=1497377471][/doublepost]

The keyboard size is more or less identical to the previous models? The main difference are larger and more stable keys on the newer ones. I can't even type on the old-gen keyboard anymore.

Look, not everyone can adapt. And that's okay. I have no issue resting my fingers on the keys. They feel LESS sensitive to me than the old mushy keyboard with wobbly keys, but everyone is different.

The majority of keyboard critics have little no zero real experience of any length with the new keyboards. I wasn't sure about the new keyboard at first, but I know Apple tested them on thousands of users. It was a well researched upgrade and for most people it's a really good one.

But we can't get mad at people who gave it a REAL try and still don't like it. They miss out on a better laptop, but you can't make everyone happy.


R.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

And who dragged up a 7 months old thread to carry this old discussion on?

The new keyboards are great, they're easy to type on and quick, they feel a lot more solid than the older ones and are better in every regard. Anyone who says otherwise is either typing with two fingers whilst occasionally squinting at the screen, does not own one, is terrified at the thought of change, or is just a fanboy loathed to change anything they hold as sacred.

The new keyboards do take time to adjust to, it took me 3 minutes.

 

[maflynn]

Do tell us, what kind of drawback do you see from the laptop being thinner?

The current dialog is evidence enough, that they keyboard is a point of contention, either in its function or quality.

 

[jerryk]

One of the main problems I've had with the new keyboards (I'm back on a 2015 now) is that I simply can't relax and rest my fingers with them. They are so low travel and so super sensitive that no matter how long I used them (had several models), it was just never comfortable in the way most keyboards are for me.

I tend to "think" with my fingers a bit and don't benefit at all from having super low resistance on key presses. It ends up resulting in lots of mistaken key inputs and deleting and just makes me... just not relaxed when using the board - it's the best way I can describe it.

I happened to be in the Apple store today as I was killing 10 minutes waiting for someone and I saddled up to the 15" 2017 and, just some light typing for 2-3 minutes and my hands were not happy. It takes me too much effort to not make a keystroke basically.

I really find it frustrating that this is the direction they are going across all of them.

I'd really hoped that the Magic Keyboard would make its way to the MBP's instead of modified version of what they put on the rMB.

Keyboard are very much a personal preference item. I have a stack of unused keyboard from my Don Quito-estte search for the perfect one. Currently prefer the dasKeyboard, but it is not perfect.

 

[CaptRB]

The current dialog is evidence enough, that they keyboard is a point of contention, either in its function or quality.

It only takes a few people in a forum to create "contention."

I have yet to meet a soul in the real world who dislikes the keyboard. It's all forum banter. When I set up a poll for OWNERS, the results were in in favor of the new keyboard. And that was here, where haters and trolls get equal time!

I don't agree that it takes 3 minutes to adapt, at least generally. But I do agree that after a week or two, everyone I know prefers it and even claims to type faster. My son hated it at first, now loves it.

I really can't take any critic seriously unless they've owned and used the machine for a while. On the other hand, some folks will just not adapt, just like some people don't like chicklet keyboards in general. You can't make everyone happy.

People really need to get over it. If you can't adapt and learn the new keyboard or handle the learning curve on USB-C, you're simply out of luck. This is the direction that Apple chose.


R.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Keyboard are very much a personal preference item. I have a stack of unused keyboard from my Don Quito-estte search for the perfect one. Currently prefer the dasKeyboard, but it is not perfect.

Yeah, I agree - The problem becomes unfixable when it's a built in keyboard on a laptop though.
(save for at a desk/dock situation)

 

[maflynn]

I have yet to meet a soul in the real world who dislikes the keyboard.

That does not diminish the fact that some people do not like it or the fact many people have had it fail

I really can't take any critic seriously unless they've owned and used the machine for a while.

Feel free to ignore my criticisms then. I post what concerns me and I don't need to be an owner to voice my opinion

 

[CaptRB]

That does not diminish the fact that some people do not like it or the fact many people have had it fail

Feel free to ignore my criticisms then. I post what concerns me and I don't need to be an owner to voice my opinion

I'm not ignoring your opinions. I'm just not taking them seriously! ;-)

Many people have had keyboards, USB ports and screens fail as well.

When I seek an educated opinion on a device, I talk to owners. The keyboard isn't just better. It's a huge improvement. I have three in the house and everyone loves them, ages 12 through 54. My father traded up and has arthritis. After a few days he says it's perfect as he doesn't have as many errors. Even my poll, in this hostile environment had OWNERS at 90%.

Now for those who own it and tried to adapt, but just don't like it...that's tough and I sympathize. But non-owners? I don't want to hear an opinion about a movie you haven't seen either.


R.

 

[maflynn]

I'm not ignoring your opinions. I'm just not taking them seriously!

I was recommending that you should just move on and not waste your time trying to refute an opinion that you don't take serious. Given that you don't take my opinion seriously I see no further need to continue any sort of adult discourse with you.

 

[epca12]

I think you eventually get used to it, they seem to be constantly improving the mechanism each year so it seems like the keyboard will also be adapting to what people want.

 

[CaptRB]

I was recommending that you should just move on and not waste your time trying to refute an opinion that you don't take serious. Given that you don't take my opinion seriously I see no further need to continue any sort of adult discourse with you.

Can't have "adult" discourse on ergonomics and experience when only one party actually HAS said experience.

These silly debates go nowhere because the "other" party lacks first hand experience in a majority of cases. Where would this be perceived as a worthy debate?

If you owned the machine and a month passed and you still disliked the keyboard, you'd get absolute respect on your position. But it's pretty silly to judge ergonomics without reasonable experience.

I shoot Canon, Nikon and occasionally Fuji. I have a opinion based on using all of these systems for months at a time. I also have the experience of seeing others use them in professional venues. Thus I draw my views on very real 1st person knowledge.


R.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

The problem is the feel of the keyboard is different, and there's a lot of speculative consumers out there. People want to love Apple because, Apple. People walk in to a store and touch it and immediately feel a difference, then think it's terrible which satisfies their desire. They want one, but can't justify it, so the keyboards naff, that's why I don't have it.

Truth be told people absolutely love the keyboard. After using it for a couple of weeks myself it felt like night and day going back to an older keyboard. I used to think my old keyboard was the best around, after using this new machine it's really hard to go back.

There are a lot of office typers out there too, people with huge travel old style Microsoft keyboards at the office PC. If you've come from that to a shallow laptop keyboard it will feel really odd at first, as it's going from one extreme to the other. So if you're used to high travel keyboards and are smashing this thing hamfisted then you're going to have a bad time. If you're a softer typer whose used to laptop or low travel keyboards then you'll be fine.

Either way perpetrating this illusion that it's a marmite issue of 50% love/hate is nonsense. I'm not doubting there's people out there who genuinely hate it (For whatever reason), but it's more like 1%.

You can have your reasons, nobody is sticking up for the machine because it's Apple, it's genuinely a really good keyboard. It feels like a quick responsive mechanical keyboard, I can type a lot faster on it with the larger keys and because it's so low travel they snap back instantly.

The only potential issue I can see with it is feedback, I touch type so it's not a problem, but I can see an issue if you need to look at it perhaps. But this is made for the mass modern market after all.

I've yet to see a genuine complaint though, it is as others have pointed out the occasional person who doesn't own one making a comment. Or people saying they keep hitting the TB, and one or two who say they rest their hands on the keyboard? I rest my fingers on F/J where their meant to be, don't have an issue.

 

[maflynn]

they seem to be constantly improving the mechanism each year

One can only hope but at this point we only have generation 2 of the keyboard and unlike prior MBP releases this has been met with stiff resistance and high volume of people complaining about defects. Sure in the past we've had a fair amount of negativity on a new model, but it was solidly built. This time it seems that the MBP is too thin for its own good and the keyboard is suffering from that mindset.

 

[epca12]

One can only hope but at this point we only have generation 2 of the keyboard and unlike prior MBP releases this has been met with stiff resistance and high volume of people complaining about defects. Sure in the past we've had a fair amount of negativity on a new model, but it was solidly built. This time it seems that the MBP is too thin for its own good and the keyboard is suffering from that mindset.

There are definitely issues but I've heard people saying the 2017 is slightly altered and I think ifixit found that too. Im hoping it fixes things but it could be too soon to tell