I do not understand it. Why can't you rest your fingers on it? One of the points of the new keyboard is that it requires less force. Of course, if one is used to hammer down on the keys like one does with mechanical keyboards...
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Macbook Pro 2016 keyboard ergonomy
- Thread starter sojers92
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I do not understand it. Why can't you rest your fingers on it? One of the points of the new keyboard is that it requires less force. Of course, if one is used to hammer down on the keys like one does with mechanical keyboards...
I came from a 2011 MBP.
My first experience of this keyboard was with a rMB. Again after reading a fair amount of hostility I approached it with scepticism but tried to keep an open mind. So when in the area a year or so ago I popped into the Apple Store (Tip, wear headphones, they leave you alone...) and I opened up a rMB and an online typing WPM site I found, and did a test. Then ran that same test on a MBP (2015 model). I did take a moment to adjust, purely as you're used to 'pressing' the keys as opposed to more 'tapping'. So I ran it a few times and actually surprisingly found it much better on the rMB, and I left with my mind changed.
The newer MBP keyboards are a further refinement of that. But I would encourage you to go try them in a similar manner side by side if you ever have the time. They are nothing like a tablet onscreen keyboard, they feel more like a mechanical keyboard to use and not the soft squidgy older ones. The keys also rest perfectly flat, where my old one would wobble.
It really depends on how quickly you adjust, and there is a slight adjustment to be had. But I've noticed a lot of the complaints stem from people resting fingers somewhere like the top row (Touchbar), or splaying fingers all over the place and stuff. Fair enough you type how you type, but Apple designed this keyboard around the taught way to type and not a million different unique habits. So depending on how far away from the correct way you are is the main thing I'd say makes the difference in adapting.
Anyway, go give them a proper and fair comparison and go from there.
On another note thinking about this I do have one criticism of the keyboards, and that is the Touchbar itself. As I've said I believe these keyboards are designed to be used optimally when correctly touch typed upon. However because of this I am looking at the screen and not the TB, so that little strip is kind of ironic and I get very little use out of it.
Mayyyybe... (impossible to know)
I think they largely just designed the thinnest keyboard they could and let the rest of the ergonomic situation just come along for the ride.
Agreed; all about making the chassis thinner. If these low throw keyboards offer any ergonomic or increase in accuracy they would be abound, they are not. I agree one can adapt equally I do not see that's how the MBP should be positioned.
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Do either of you actually own one of these computers? I've seen threads where you're saying you own a Surface or something. You don't have to buy a MacBook, have made that choice, and have purchased a different computer that better suites your needs.
I mean I don't own a Surface, so couldn't care less about design choices Microsoft made with it (I think it's a great device just not right for my use). Don't own a HP or a Dell either. But if you don't have one, have no intention of getting one, and are disinterested, why are you here?
Of course they made the thinnest keyboard they could, what on Earth does that have to do with anything? If Apple made a thicker laptop with a fatter keyboard would you suddenly rejoice and buy it or something, are you hoping for that?
Not anymore..several months of cumulative time with 3 different 2016 machines - back on a 2015 15" now.
You asserted that ergonomics played a relevant role in the Apple design process for these new keyboards. I personally don't find any compelling evidence that the ergonomics were a primary concern of theirs.
They wanted the laptops thinner and did whatever it took to get the keyboards thinner, at least in my opinion.
There's no way to actually know, so one opinion is basically as irrelevant as the next though.
Great, and that works for you? The middling difference between the 2015 and 2016 is largely design (2016 is obviously faster but only at the top end CPU usage).
For now - But I'm certainly concerned about my future options on the MacBooks, no question.
That's completely understandable. Given any technological future though, things will continue getting smaller as things develop. So I don't see these keyboards going away, which clearly effects people such as yourself. Hopefully they can make some refinements or adjustments along the road. But I think you'll be waiting until 2020 for a design refresh and to see what happens. Only you know what would make you happy though so you can gauge if other manufacturers are more preferable.
But I would say again, things are going to get smaller. And not just from Apple but other laptop makers. In the next few years I imagine we'll see similar keyboards from the likes of PC laptops. We'll just have to see really.
Apple ergonomics is honestly a joke. My Dell XPS has 1.2mm travel on the keyboard. And more ports. And is thesame size as the Macbook. And is actually lighter.
Which means that the only reason for this keyboard existing was fake "Innovation" and "Thinnest keyboard ever"
Which means that the only reason for this keyboard existing was fake "Innovation" and "Thinnest keyboard ever"
Tried both 13" & 15" and used the rMB professionally for over 2 years, MBP's since release. The new keyboards are indeed more stable, equally the short throw is a poor decision IMHO for this class of notebook. What I was hoping for was balance.
I am considering the 15" again equally I am not convinced Apple has changed much if anything regarding the KB. If only looking for happy posts about Apple, their official forum is the best place as all negative comment is removed, here it's more open minded...
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Is this an assumption of yours, or do you have it directly from Apple?
The "taught way to type" to which you refer is based upon the typist sitting with correct posture on a chair at a desk with the keyboard resting securely upon the desk at a certain height in relation to the position of the typist.
A "laptop" on the other hand spends a lot of time on the user's lap. Yes, one can also use a laptop while sitting at a desk, but the advantage of the laptop is its ability to be implemented anywhere. At the beach, on the couch, in a VW bus, etc... The "taught way to type" is irrelevant in these situations.
I really hope Apple gets its act together regarding the keyboard issue. I have always had an Apple laptop, and I want it to stay that way, but I refuse to "adjust" to a machine. That is the opposite of ergonomic design.
Let's be honest. How often do we see people sit with their notebooks on their laps? In looking around airplanes, coffee shops, libraries, etc. I would say very infrequently. People sitting in chairs only are using an phone or a tablet. Anyone typing in notebook will look be at a table or using a tray table in the case of an airplane.
I love the Magic Keyboard with my iMac, it feels so comfortable and I can type so fast on it.
But the keyboard on my 2016 MacBook Pro makes my hands hurt, and I'm a touch typist who has tried to adjust for several weeks now. I've tried typing "lighter" but then find the keys don't press down enough to register a stroke. So then I have to start "pounding" again and, due to the shallow key travel, this ends up hurting my fingers after only a short time. I also find so many keys "miss" and I have to slow down to correct.
I love Macs, love Mac machines, but I just cannot use this "pro" machine, and this saddens me, as I have no other choices for a Mac portable.
But the keyboard on my 2016 MacBook Pro makes my hands hurt, and I'm a touch typist who has tried to adjust for several weeks now. I've tried typing "lighter" but then find the keys don't press down enough to register a stroke. So then I have to start "pounding" again and, due to the shallow key travel, this ends up hurting my fingers after only a short time. I also find so many keys "miss" and I have to slow down to correct.
I love Macs, love Mac machines, but I just cannot use this "pro" machine, and this saddens me, as I have no other choices for a Mac portable.
Your Dell has the same number of ports, just more port variety. If I want to attach 4 USB devices at the same time to it (and I sometimes do) - I can't do it on your "more ports" but I can do it on my MBP.
As for the keyboard - that XPS keyboard could have 2mm key travel, be mechanical and order me a drink whenever I press a key, it would still feel cheap to me the way they make their computers. Yes, I tried it on the last year's model. Typing on a 2016 MBP (still didn't try the 2017) is a lot nicer to me, even better than on the awesome Magic Keyboard.
Enjoy your notebook, if you like it more - that's great for you. But don't expect your views apply to everyone.
Oh wait, it has two USB 3.0, a USB C, HDMI out and an SD card reader, which makes it five devices. Oh, and it can also be charged while using all of them
Just look at the Dell forums and then the Mac forums regarding the keyboards, and see that the application of my viewpoint is far more widespread then yours
I think it's superior in some ways but the longer travel on the older ones definitely makes it feel more comfortable, regardless of speed. It is essentially one of 2 primary input method of a computer so should be comfortable
Oh wait, it has two USB 3.0, a USB C, HDMI out and an SD card reader, which makes it five devices. Oh, and it can also be charged while using all of them
As I said, I cannot attach 4 usb devices. And I can charge it too, I use the Apple AV adapter. With that Dell I'd have to use a hub and hubs are much worse unless they are self powered, and these are heavy and cumbersome.
I don't care about SD card readers. If you do, I guess it's useful.
Just look at the Dell forums and then the Mac forums regarding the keyboards, and see that the application of my viewpoint is far more widespread then yours
Forums are the worst place to look for buying advice. I consult colleagues from my industry and my own experience (and I had a lot with XPS). And don't take this personally but I wouldn't touch that Dell with a 10 foot pole.
Be fair, they make half decent monitors.
I was just trying to find out XPS sales numbers to throw that one into the ring. But emm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_XPS I genuinely have no idea which is the current or 'best' one? How do you even start buying one of those?!
Okay I think I've found them, 9365/9560 right? Man that's a confusing naming scheme they've got going on.
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I said "that Dell" - I meant XPS. I don't like it. As for monitors - I like Dell monitors. I think they are great in their price range. Nothing against Dell, I just didn't like the XPS.
I know was merely an interjection of humour. Like how Microsoft make half decent keyboards...
I really enjoy the new MacBook Pro's keyboard. After using it for a week I could never go back to the mush feel of the older MacBook Pro keyboards. The feel is quite nice and the speed of typing on this is fantastic. The only con that I can think of is the obscene amount of noise produced when typing, though I enjoy the noise using it at night can be a problem.
I have use many laptop keyboards and the only keyboard that is slightly better than this on is on the Surface Book with Performance Base. That keyboard is very impressive and I was surprised to see such a nice keyboard produced by Microsoft.
But, I suppose the new MacBook Pro keyboards are a love it or hate it. I still think it just takes time to really like them but it depends on the person. I have used the XPS keyboard and it felt mushy.
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Microsoft has really upped their game. Their hardware and build quality is impressive, almost on par of Apples now. It is just their prices are ridiculous. There are so many Windows computers and it never made sense that Microsoft sells their products at such a high premium. There is only one company you can get Mac computers from.
I have use many laptop keyboards and the only keyboard that is slightly better than this on is on the Surface Book with Performance Base. That keyboard is very impressive and I was surprised to see such a nice keyboard produced by Microsoft.
But, I suppose the new MacBook Pro keyboards are a love it or hate it. I still think it just takes time to really like them but it depends on the person. I have used the XPS keyboard and it felt mushy.
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Microsoft has really upped their game. Their hardware and build quality is impressive, almost on par of Apples now. It is just their prices are ridiculous. There are so many Windows computers and it never made sense that Microsoft sells their products at such a high premium. There is only one company you can get Mac computers from.
New Mac, thanks for the detailed, informative, and helpful reply! Just what I was looking For!
Now, as to this next, it is patent nonsense!
Clearly, that commenter hasn't spent time any time on the Apple forums, there are scores, easily hundreds, of critical threads, many with dozens upon dozens of pages of comments where people point out problems and decrying Apple's failings!
It's definitely not happy talk! It is, though, a good place to get tips, information, and learn what other Apple users are saying, pro AND con, about products!
Now, as to this next, it is patent nonsense!
Clearly, that commenter hasn't spent time any time on the Apple forums, there are scores, easily hundreds, of critical threads, many with dozens upon dozens of pages of comments where people point out problems and decrying Apple's failings!
It's definitely not happy talk! It is, though, a good place to get tips, information, and learn what other Apple users are saying, pro AND con, about products!
I stand corrected if this is the case, last I looked it was frequently the case. As with all time moves on, maybe I will revisit, also tend to agree was/is more technically orientated...
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