hope this helps.
Regards,
p3ncil
No, as the picture isnt displayed - thanks anyway though
ok, so does the read/write of 70mbs seem right?
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MacBook Pro EFI Firmware Update 1.7 Problems
- Thread starter jlamarp
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No, as the picture isnt displayed - thanks anyway though
ok, so does the read/write of 70mbs seem right?
yes
Images not displayed?
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/16...lack_320gb_2_5_7200_rpm_hard_disk/index5.html
Yeah im sure it began with the EFI 1.7 update, my computer were delivered with EFI 1.6 and I ran it for 3 weeks without a single beachball before I even ran the updater. Then I ran the EFI 1.7 update and got a beachball within 2 hours. Never had any click and beep problems, and since the issue persists when using an SSD (actually I get more beachballs now) it seems unlikely it was the hard drive.
Also for the firmware version, yeah I know that. But as I said, after I rolled back it sais im on 1.6 but im still getting 1.7 speeds (full speeds of my SSD, meaning well over SATA I speeds). So something seems strange. Also when I updated to 1.7 again after the roll back it said that the update had been applied, yet I found the 1.7 update in the updater and had to redo it. So there seems to be alot of strange problems for me, at any rate, now it is better. I can watch a movie without it freezing my computer every 15 min.
The read/write speed for 7200rpm drives may vary greatly. It may even be less than a fast 5400rpm drive in some cases. What's missing is the bit density on the platter. A 7200rpm drive spins 33% faster than a 5400rpm drive, but if the bit density on each platter of the 5400rpm drive is 33% or greater than on a given 7200rpm drive, the 5400rpm drive will be faster because more bits are passing under the head.
So, it's hard to make a blanket statement of speed for 7200rpm drives. What is safe to say, however, is that conventional laptop hard drives never reach the bitrate ceiling of the SATA I interface, so it makes sense that you didn't notice any change. For some SSDs, however, this is a different story.
In regards of fishbert being arrogant, i dont believe so at all, just because his posts dont contain lol's 
and are objective doesn't mean he is being arrogant, his posts are just straight to the point with adjacent sources/data.
I for one admire his passion for the issue, he has been documenting this issue and helping others identify if this is clearly the same issue for more then 2 months now.
Beyond the whole it fixed my problem and not yours drama here, there is still one big problem, the beachballing, efi 1.7 firmware problem was closely linked with the "incompatibility" per se of third party drives.
Unless this (miniscule?) "performance" Update fixed the issue with third part hard drive, then i must say i believe what fishbert is saying.
On the contrary, if the update also fixes the issue with us not being able to run third party hard drives (or not being to install an os on them) then it is probable that fishbert is indeed having a different or a mixture of different problems.
That being said, i personally do not believe any of this, i had an exchange machine before this update came out perform the way it was supposed to, also another user replaced logic board and sata ribbon cable and the problem vanished. Something is not kosher.
and are objective doesn't mean he is being arrogant, his posts are just straight to the point with adjacent sources/data.I for one admire his passion for the issue, he has been documenting this issue and helping others identify if this is clearly the same issue for more then 2 months now.
Beyond the whole it fixed my problem and not yours drama here, there is still one big problem, the beachballing, efi 1.7 firmware problem was closely linked with the "incompatibility" per se of third party drives.
Unless this (miniscule?) "performance" Update fixed the issue with third part hard drive, then i must say i believe what fishbert is saying.
On the contrary, if the update also fixes the issue with us not being able to run third party hard drives (or not being to install an os on them) then it is probable that fishbert is indeed having a different or a mixture of different problems.
That being said, i personally do not believe any of this, i had an exchange machine before this update came out perform the way it was supposed to, also another user replaced logic board and sata ribbon cable and the problem vanished. Something is not kosher.
Well, I just tried Apple's recently released "Performance Update" on my system with a 128GB Patriot Torqx. It didn't do a damned thing -- I'm still beachballing with the 1.6 firmware (I can't even boot with the 1.7 firmware with my Torqx).
It also locked up in the exact same place it did before -- I was doing a time machine backup, then went to open up my Windows 7 image in VirtualBox. It started counting down the time left to finish opening the image and got to 0:00 and then started beachballing.
I never have that problem with the stock 160GB HDD. Seems like it freezes when it's processing a lot of data at once -- only in my case, the whole system gets taken down instead of a 10 second to 20 second pause.
It also locked up in the exact same place it did before -- I was doing a time machine backup, then went to open up my Windows 7 image in VirtualBox. It started counting down the time left to finish opening the image and got to 0:00 and then started beachballing.
I never have that problem with the stock 160GB HDD. Seems like it freezes when it's processing a lot of data at once -- only in my case, the whole system gets taken down instead of a 10 second to 20 second pause.
In regards of fishbert being arrogant, i dont believe so at all, just because his posts dont contain lol's
I for one admire his passion for the issue, he has been documenting this issue and helping others identify if this is clearly the same issue for more then 2 months now.
Beyond the whole it fixed my problem and not yours drama here, there is still one big problem, the beachballing, efi 1.7 firmware problem was closely linked with the "incompatibility" per se of third party drives.
Unless this (miniscule?) "performance" Update fixed the issue with third part hard drive, then i must say i believe what fishbert is saying.
On the contrary, if the update also fixes the issue with us not being able to run third party hard drives (or not being to install an os on them) then it is probable that fishbert is indeed having a different or a mixture of different problems.
That being said, i personally do not believe any of this, i had an exchange machine before this update came out perform the way it was supposed to, also another user replaced logic board and sata ribbon cable and the problem vanished. Something is not kosher.
Problem is when he writes personal opinions as proven facts without displaying proof, that is not objective and not the right way to follow a scientific chain of evidence.
I doubt this update would fix drives not working at all, I think this is Apples way of trying to please some customers. I think they got no idea what went wrong with the EFI firmware, but my guess is that they found a way to keep the whole system from locking up during one of the dips in read speed to 0 Mb/s. That is my guess atleast, this is like putting a bandaid on a deep cut. Don't really fix the problem, just slows the blood flowing slightly.
My guess is that what this performance update does is when the sata interface gets stressed (or what you might call it since these problems seem to occur when stressing the disc usage) is that instead of keep trying and locking up the system they told it to wait.
As for the exchanging of logic boards and sata ribbon cables, it is possible that for some people that have helped because their hardware was broken or something. Too many factors when you start with hardware to even make guesses.
Back on track, my 15" mbp was fine on 1.6, beach-balls on 1.7, most obvious in quicktime. Back to 1.6 and all fine.
I've now gone back to 1.7 and the performance update. Watched a 45 minute video, with no problems. It seems to me like this has indeed fixed it, so far at least.
I've now gone back to 1.7 and the performance update. Watched a 45 minute video, with no problems. It seems to me like this has indeed fixed it, so far at least.
The only facts that I remember claiming is that this Performance Update 1.0 does not resolve the EFI 1.7 SATA II issue. And I believe I've provided quite sufficient evidence of this with the videos I have provided (both from 2 months ago before the roll-back was available, and from yesterday after installing the recent update).
And the issue I'm seeing is complete with the requisite incrementing CRC errors first documented June 25th (three days after EFI 1.7 was released) on page 5 of the now 114 page thread over on the Apple support forums.
People seem to be upset at this one claim (supported with video evidence) solely because their issues were resolved with this recent update. It's great that they were resolved - that update was released for a purpose, it's not just some random bits of code - but the EFI 1.7 SATA II issue is not addressed by this.
So, call me arrogant, a troll, whatever (in PMs from now on, please... I don't intend to continue this further), but until you can...
a) refute the video evidence I have provided, and
b) explain how a firmware issue (which can cause boot problems and shows up when running other OSes) is resolved by an update limited to Mac OS X
...please stop trying to claim that what I am saying is unsupported and/or does not follow logic.b) explain how a firmware issue (which can cause boot problems and shows up when running other OSes) is resolved by an update limited to Mac OS X
The problems you are experiencing are something bigger than the EFI 1.7 issue. I would suggest that you make an appointment with a nearby Apple Store's Genius Bar, contact Apple Support, and perhaps contact Patriot to try and get a replacement unit. Good luck.
After the EFI version 1.7 problem, I'm somewhat reluctant to blindly install Apple updates. Since this "Performance Update" isn't at the firmware level, if it causes a problem I assume it can be removed by reinstalling the OS. Correct?
There you go again claiming facts without evidence, how do you know that this does not help ANYONE with the EFI 1.7 issue. Exactly, you got no idea.
Your video does not prove anything, all it proves is that for YOU it did not help. And since we safely can assume no computers will display the exact same problems (because all hardware is not 100% identical) you cannot say this won't work for anyone. That's like me sending a video where I cannot jump 2 feet up in the air and then claiming to have proof that it is impossible to jump 2 feet up in the air.
Im starting to get sick and tired of you "bossing" people around with no proof what so ever. Just because this does not help the issue for YOU does not mean it will not help ANYONE. YOU != EVERYONE.
Also for you "how do OS help firmware" thing, you do know that it is the OS that sends the commands to the hardware? Meaning that if you control HOW and WHEN commands are sent you sure as hell can control how the hardware will behave.
Also, im not calling you a troll, but you sure as hell are arrogant thinking you can get away with evidence which does not even come close to falsifying that this update helps with the EFI 1.7 problem.
Same here, 15" MBP with standard 5400rpm Hitachi HTS545050B9SA02 (500GB) - beachballs with 1.7 , downloaded the 1.6 somewhere in this thread and downgraded - no more hangs
Now I've downloaded both the Performance update and EFI 1.7 via software update , and its looking good so far
I downloaded the "performance update" yesterday and am also hoping it cures the hang issue. My 13" MBP would hang every time I watched a quicktime video of any sort of length. I didn't get other random beachballs like a lot of other people reported.
No, you're trying to change the question... nobody's talking about "helping," we're talking about "addressing," "solving," or "fixing."
And you can't just go around calling anyone who disagrees with you in a calm manner, "arrogant." Well, you can... but it's not very nice.
For you to prove that Performance Update 1.0 solves the EFI 1.7 issue, you would need to show a preponderance of evidence to support that claim.
For me to prove that Performance Update 1.0 does not solve the EFI 1.7 issue, I need to show one example where it does not.
This is called a "proof by counterexample," and I believe I have done exactly that. Yes, Performance Update 1.0 fixes an issue... but not this issue.
Now, take a deep breath... count to 10... and tell me how an OS update will address/solve/fix a firmware problem. That's rather important to those of us running other OSes on our MacBook Pros... or those of us who can't even boot the machine reliably when EFI 1.7 is installed.
Also please tell me if you have ever seen your issue go away with a downgrade to EFI 1.6. Because I have... multiple times. That right there is enough to call into question whether you are seeing an issue that is directly related to the presence of EFI 1.7 firmware. You might be... I sure don't know... but it means that you probably don't know for sure, either.
I think the evidence speaks for itself, despite how angry you seem to get when someone doesn't agree with you.
If you wish to argue this further, please PM me. I do not intend to keep going back and forth with you in here.
First of all, addressing is not the same as fixing, addressing means just that, it is meant to address this issue, it does not need to SOLVE the problem, it just need to be meant to help. So if you are gonna use the words, please don't try to change them into your own liking. Dictionary.com have this meaning which fits quite well "to deal with or discuss: to address the issues. ", so of course you can deal with the issue without solving it.
Did you even read the link you posted? I wish you did because that would have made you learn something. The counterexample would have worked IF the question had been "Does the Performance Update help everyone?", but the question is rather "Does the Performance Update help anyone?". See the difference? You claim it does not help anyone, no one here claims that it would help everyone. So for you to prove your point you got to show evidence of it not working for anyone in the world with the EFI 1.7 problem. Good luck. Any mathematical, engineering or science class in beginners classes (first year in college) will teach you the difference, so either you have forgotten those or you are to young to be in college.
I on the other hand claims this issue might HELP (not solve, never said it solves the issue) some people, this is a much less strong claim, it cannot be proven wrong with just a few contradictions.
To put it in math terms:
H(x) = an equation describing how many of X ppl get's help from the performance update with their EFI 1.7 problem
YOU CLAIM:
H(x) = 0 for all x, meaning to prove you wrong there just have to be 1 person who got help from the update
I CLAIM:
H(x) >= 0 for all x, meaning that there is a possibility that atleast 1 person gets help from this update.
How the OS could influence the firmware? Right, to be 100% sure of how this would happen you would need to know exactly why it beachballs in the first place, but lets ASSUME it is because of an overloaded connection to the drive, so basically when you multitask it will overload and shut down completely. If the old way was to just keep trying until you get the data it might backlog it all and freeze. If you instead tell it to wait for response on the last data it requested from the drive, it is possible you get a local freeze for just that data which lasts a fraction of the time.
I haven't programmed OS X, I have no idea how they would do it, I am just saying that since the software is requesting the data from the hard drive, it is not impossible that a change in how it requests data would change how "bad" the freezes get.
And no, my "downgrades" to 1.6 haven't ever helped me, but then again, I never really been downgraded to 1.6 speeds, and since this issue seems closely linked to speeds, that might be why? If the 1.6 rollback would have worked properly for me it is impossible to get speeds over the SATA I limit, and I get that EVERY time I run a benchmark program, so obviously I don't fully go back to 1.6.
Hope you actually read this post and start to think about how you state you claims, because there is a big difference in what you state and how they should be stated to use the "theory of counterexample".
Before applying the new Performance Update 1.0, I had rolled back to EFI 1.6. Even with 1.6, if I tried anything I/O intensive such as running a virtual machine through VirtualBox for Windows Vista to run Adobe CS3, it would randomly freeze. With EFI 1.7 it was always freezing, or as some of you would refer to it as "beachballing", so I stayed with EFI 1.6 until now. Yesterday I first applied the Performance Update 1.0 with EFI 1.6, and then went back to EFI 1.7 and everything is working great so far! I have not gotten any freezes anymore thus far, and have been able to run VirtualBox and Photoshop smoothly, so whatever they updated in the performance update seemed to have helped in my case. *knock on wood*. By the way, I never had issues when running Bootcamp, w/ Windows XP or Vista. Hopefully Apple will release a SL CD with this update already included. I hope others are able to see resolution to their issues as well, best of luck everyone!
Ignoring the insults sprinkled in your post... (thanks for those, though)
Is that really what this whole back-and-forth is about? Semantics of the term, "address"?!
Go back to the bottom of page 22 of this thread. From the very beginning I have said things like:
I have never said anything about the update not "helping" some people; just that the EFI 1.7 firmware issue I've shown is unaffected by this OS update.
Jeez; talk about a worthless argument!
I'd like to apologize to everyone in here (including you, David) for being a part of a loud semantics argument. I had thought there was some real substance behind it.
Good to hear your issue was resolved.
I don't think a future Snow Leopard disk will have that update included. The update (as I understand it) contains an updated kernel extension... but it's only intended for the 15 Apple models on the "affected machines" list. Any computer not on that list, may still need the original version of that file. Besides, it's a small update... the pauses that it addresses don't sound like they'd prevent anyone from downloading and installing it.
Same here, 15" MBP with standard 5400rpm Hitachi HTS545050B9SA02 (500GB) - beachballs with 1.7 , downloaded the 1.6 somewhere in this thread and downgraded - no more hangs
Now I've downloaded both the Performance update and EFI 1.7 via software update , and its looking good so far
Just had that HD from macsales 2 weeks ago and never had a beach at all, returned it because of noise, as with the WD 500gb scorpio blue drives.
Is there any chance that everyone is having problems because your not using what Apple use's say at factory level/specs? I mention this because my Hitachi 320 gb stock has a totally different label than the ones you get from newegg and macsales. May sound off but hey you never know ;-) . I know that the Intel SSD's are the most common used around me, and that super talent is used by expercom for customers and they said between the two they have never had any problems , I cant argue because 3 of my friends got there MBPS from them and there all running great.
Thank God , mine just works, that's all I can say.
If you mean one thing, don't say another. I can only go by what you say, I cannot read your mind.
I still don't believe the EFI 1.7 firmware issue is unaffected by this OS update. I think some configurations will benefit from it. Maybe not all, but I don't think we can discard the possibility that some people might get help with their EFI 1.7 issue.
I know I'm annoying, but I really think that "proof" isn't something people can just throw around all the time. Proof requires a lot more data then we can gather from just a few forums
According to someone in the Apple Support Discussion forums (link), Apple says they don't sell SATA II drives... which I'm guessing means the firmware loaded on those original hard drives restricts the (probably SATA II capable) interface on the drive to SATA I. On the "Tech Specs" section at apple.com, it also only claims SATA I support... you have to go to a Mac Pro tower before Apple calls out SATA II support.
So the problem, pretty much by definition, is with drives that differ from Apple factory specs.
This is fine, btw... Apple can set whatever they wish for their product specs. But if they only stand behind SATA I support, then why push a SATA II firmware update out to everyone (and now ship it on new MBPs) that breaks things for many of us who have changed drives (a perfectly kosher thing change)? At best, it's a screw up that's just taking a really long time to resolve. At worst, it's an anti-competitive business practice.
