MacBook Pro Grainy Display

[iW00t]

Try this?

What I have been doing is leaving the display on for the past couple of days (disable turn off backlight, move mouse to no-screensaver hot corner etc) and it seems to be not as bad as time goes by.

Not sure if it is all in the head as I subconsciously try to psych myself into thinking I have a flawless screen or if something else is going on within the panel, but it is worth a try.

Still I've seen the screen of a HP belonging to another commuter on a train and it does make me wonder how he'd actually live with THAT

 

[TheSpaz]

Does anyone know if the 20" Apple Cinema Display has this problem?

 

[miniguu]

If it is deemed as defective they will probably take it back. So argue your case, it is "defective"!

Thanks iW00t. My display isn't obviously really bad, so I'm not sure I could successfully get an Apple Genius to deem it defective. I would put in the realm where subjective opinions can differ. Just trying to evaluate my options..I'm on my 14th day today

 

[TheSpaz]

I'm at Circuit City right now and they have Macs here...

Same thing:

15" MPB looks like crap
17" MBP looks perfect - So does the 24" iMac and the MacBooks
I'm on a Mac Mini right now with the 20" ACD and there is noticeable grain to it... the same amount I saw at the Apple Store. Again, I think these screens actually have a more anti-glare coating on them because when I look at the iMac 24" the screen appears a litte more reflective but, cleaner looking.

The grain on this 20" ACD doesn't look like it's the kind that would bother me. At least I don't have to strain my eyes. I almost don't see it if I try and look past it.

Note: The 17" iMac also has the same amount of grain as the 20" ACD.

 

[ventro]

...the iMac 30"...

The first time you wrote this I thought it was just a typo. But you mentioned it twice. Please speak more of this magical macintosh computer

 

[BWhaler]

I think most of the people who are noticing this horrid effect on the MacBook Pro screens are the people who have owned an Apple laptop in the past and are used to a nice clear and flawless display

If I would have known that the MacBook Pro display wasn't going to look the same (or better) than my Powerbook screen...

THAT is the problem. Apple, since the last revision of PowerBooks has made some change, or a new factory or line, which is now pumping out TERRIBLE displays.

And this is not a trade-off issue, e.g. more heat but 10x of the performance.

The displays just suck now.

I owned 3 17" powerBooks--I upgrade about once a year. And on the last revision of the PB, I sent it back because of the screen.

It was sent back as "within spec." I then took it to the Apple store, the Genius took one look at the screen and said it had to be returned. But then he compared it to the other new models and said, "it looks the same. Maybe they are using new parts."

He offered to have the display changed, but said that honestly it would probably look the same. I could see in his face that he knew this just sucked.

Since then, all portable displays have sucked. I have a brand new 17" MBP waiting for me at home when I get back from this business trip.

Normally I would be excited. But I know at a minimum the display is going to upset me after spending $2,400. And I am worried about all of the other potential quality issues. (Heat, noise, getting a decent build, etc.)

Being an Apple customer sucks nowadays. I know there is no reasonable option. Not going to go buy a POS Dell or Gateway. I will buy Apple.

But the quality is just miserable. It takes the joy out of buying the product. It makes it stressful. And if the problems are bad enough, it makes you feel like you spent a premium for a low quality, knowingly flawed, product.

I guess this is how Apple figured out how to drop prices and keep high margins.

 

[iW00t]

THAT is the problem. Apple, since the last revision of PowerBooks has made some change, or a new factory or line, which is now pumping out TERRIBLE displays.

And this is not a trade-off issue, e.g. more heat but 10x of the performance.

You know, what I have always pondered about is, could it be a trade-off between Apple's profit margins vs the higher cost of components like the new Core 2 CPU?

Core 2 costs a lot more than G4 chips, there was even some talk last time about how those CPUs cost like what, $30 each? In contrast the top of the line C2D costs almost $400+

 

[TheSpaz]

The first time you wrote this I thought it was just a typo. But you mentioned it twice. Please speak more of this magical macintosh computer

No magical computer... I was simply mistaken... I wast trying to hurry so that they didn't catch my posting on a forum in the store. Hehe.

 

[TheSpaz]

Another thing I should mention is that I looked at ALL of the LCD displays at Circuit City and I didn't even come across a single display I liked. MOST of them had the same grain effect to them or they were that ugly glossy look and also most of them really looked/felt cheesy to me. I will not be buying an LCD that is that cheesy feeling.

However, I used the 20" Apple Cinema and I really felt the quality in the overall product. The bezel around the edges was smooth and neat (no stupid writing all over the edges like some displays do) and the controls on the side really help you concentrate on what's on the actual screen. Also, the stand is a masterpiece with the hole for the cables and the ports on the back of the display. When I moved the display forward and back it was VERY smooth feeling and effort less... yet it felt ROCK SOLID. This is what intrigued me about the ACD. It feels like a lot more quality than any other PC display I've seen. The graininess issue I can look past because the pixels are big enough to show through without too much distortion to them and it's a lot easier on my eyes than the MacBook Pro display. I'm really considering spending my money on the Apple Cinema display... I mean... you only live once right?

 

[iW00t]

Another thing I should mention is that I looked at ALL of the LCD displays at Circuit City and I didn't even come across a single display I liked. MOST of them had the same grain effect to them or they were that ugly glossy look and also most of them really looked/felt cheesy to me. I will not be buying an LCD that is that cheesy feeling.

However, I used the 20" Apple Cinema and I really felt the quality in the overall product. The bezel around the edges was smooth and neat (no stupid writing all over the edges like some displays do) and the controls on the side really help you concentrate on what's on the actual screen. Also, the stand is a masterpiece with the hole for the cables and the ports on the back of the display. When I moved the display forward and back it was VERY smooth feeling and effort less... yet it felt ROCK SOLID. This is what intrigued me about the ACD. It feels like a lot more quality than any other PC display I've seen. The graininess issue I can look past because the pixels are big enough to show through without too much distortion to them and it's a lot easier on my eyes than the MacBook Pro display. I'm really considering spending my money on the Apple Cinema display... I mean... you only live once right?

The Macbook Pro displays aren't that bad. They are not good for what you'd expect on a laptop in this price range but there are tons of laptops out there with worse displays. You probably would want to take a look at the NEC LCD2490WUXi before getting the ACD though. I honestly think if you are using your display for serious work, the NEC (or Lacie, which basically rebadges the NECs) are the real deals.

 

[iBorg20181]

I visited the Apple Store at MoM today, and got a look a 4 different C2D 15" MBPs, 1 glossy, and 3 matte screens (they had others on display, but they were older CoreDuos - and all of the 17" MBPs were CoreDuos yet). I brought my C2D glossy, and set it up next to these to compare. The single glossy on display looked just like mine, I couldn't see any "graininess" or "shimmering," but I think I could see it on all 3 of the matte screens, 1 in particular which did "shimmer" as I moved my head back-and-forth and side-to-side. The matte screens didn't have sharp colors, and the brightness was noticeably lacking compared to the glossies - IMHO, anyway.

To be fair, none of the screens looked terrible, but I was finally able to at least see what people are talking about, I think. Without having the description of people's complaints, I'm not sure I would have noticed it, except for the obviously brighter/crisper glossies. I'm hoping to go to the 2 other Apple Stores this next week to compare their MBPs.

Just an update from my perspective! Actually, I was glad to see these - started to wonder if my eyes were failing me!!!

iBorg

 

[speekez]

I'm at Circuit City right now and they have Macs here...

Same thing:

15" MPB looks like crap
17" MBP looks perfect - So does the 24" iMac and the MacBooks
I'm on a Mac Mini right now with the 20" ACD and there is noticeable grain to it... the same amount I saw at the Apple Store. Again, I think these screens actually have a more anti-glare coating on them because when I look at the iMac 24" the screen appears a litte more reflective but, cleaner looking.

The grain on this 20" ACD doesn't look like it's the kind that would bother me. At least I don't have to strain my eyes. I almost don't see it if I try and look past it.

Note: The 17" iMac also has the same amount of grain as the 20" ACD.

Spaz, I've been following your trials, on both here and the Apple Forum. I'm in the market to upgrade from my old G3 tower to my first laptop, but have started to rethink things after reading some of the complaints. Like you, I have even been considering just upgrading to a Mac Pro tower. What kind of work do you do? I only ask because of your interests in the various LCD screen qualities. I do graphic design and some photo work. Have you looked at the NEC, Lacie, and Eizo screens?

Also, you have said the 17" model of the MBP "looks perfect" in terms of LCD display. Was that a glossy or matte? Is there a reason you wouldn't get the 17" model over the Mac Pro desktop?

 

[akadmon]

Spaz, I've been following your trials, on both here and the Apple Forum. I'm in the market to upgrade from my old G3 tower to my first laptop, but have started to rethink things after reading some of the complaints. Like you, I have even been considering just upgrading to a Mac Pro tower. What kind of work do you do? I only ask because of your interests in the various LCD screen qualities. I do graphic design and some photo work. Have you looked at the NEC, Lacie, and Eizo screens?

Also, you have said the 17" model of the MBP "looks perfect" in terms of LCD display. Was that a glossy or matte? Is there a reason you wouldn't get the 17" model over the Mac Pro desktop?

I too wanted to get a C2D MBP (reeeal baaaad, since August!), but now it's settled: I'm getting a Mac Pro. Brought my wife to an Apple Store today, and she said: you're not buying that thing! (meaning MBP). She's a near neophyte when it comes to computers, but the solid feel of the Mac Pro just won her over in about a millisecond. Then again, I may be in a different situatuation than most, since I already have a laptop (a company issued windows machine), so I don't really have to have another one.

 

[wildmac]

To further muddy the waters, I saw something in one of the other MMPC2D threads, mentioning that there may be as many as 3 vendors that are supplying LCD panels to Apple for the portables, so, you all are likely to see variance from system to system. (This effects the uneven lighting as well).

 

[Cosmo modo]

All LCD laptop screens are grainy

I noticed this thread and would like to give my 2 cents...

Compared to a CRT all TFT/LCD laptop screens are grainy.... for most people it's not really noticeable at all.

I do think that the MacBook Pro lines seem to have a sronger grain than the Powerbooks had, but then the displays are much brighter and have better colors..... so it's not that big a deal to me.

The grain somehow seems the be more noticeable when in Windows XP.

Powered stand alone LCDs also have grain but it's not noticeable since they have higher brightness values.

Feel free to comment

 

[phoo]

I went to a local apple store and compared my grainy mbp with the others there (all matte 15''s) and they all had the same grain - there was no grain, though, on the one powerbook that was hanging around there for some reason.
So that is just the way they are, the displays are simply of rather poor quality. Some of the service people there knew what I meant but were not irritated (and they said they worked all day with it), some could not see it at all. One of the sales employees told me that apple's notebook displays are (surprise surprise) not exactly among the best out there and if I wanted a state of the art display I'd have to buy a vaio - my previous laptop WAS a vaio so I'm probably spoilt.... he also said that, in contrast to the vaios, the mbs and mbp-glossies don't have an anti-reflective coating... now that was news to me, but regarding glossy-matte-blah everyone seems to say something different anyway.

Since I definitely want to stick to a mac notebook and the macbooks are not really an option for me (I have to do computer graphics, game design etc. for uni) I could ...

... a) return my matte and get a glossy, which I have never seen since no shops around here have any of them on display - and some people reported grain on the glossy ones as well (which is weird)
... b) stick to it - it's not really that bad, just not what you would expect from a high end notebook. i was going to get an external display anyway so I could work with that at home - and I noticed that with direct backlight my matte mbp is much easier to work with than the old glossy vaio.

It seems you just can't have everything... a fast portable that will run osx and windows AND has a good display... not even for €2000.

 

[brikeh]

I went to a local apple store and compared my grainy mbp with the others there (all matte 15''s) and they all had the same grain - there was no grain, though, on the one powerbook that was hanging around there for some reason.
So that is just the way they are, the displays are simply of rather poor quality. Some of the service people there knew what I meant but were not irritated (and they said they worked all day with it), some could not see it at all. One of the sales employees told me that apple's notebook displays are (surprise surprise) not exactly among the best out there and if I wanted a state of the art display I'd have to buy a vaio - my previous laptop WAS a vaio so I'm probably spoilt.... he also said that, in contrast to the vaios, the mbs and mbp-glossies don't have an anti-reflective coating... now that was news to me, but regarding glossy-matte-blah everyone seems to say something different anyway.

Since I definitely want to stick to a mac notebook and the macbooks are not really an option for me (I have to do computer graphics, game design etc. for uni) I could ...

... a) return my matte and get a glossy, which I have never seen since no shops around here have any of them on display - and some people reported grain on the glossy ones as well (which is weird)
... b) stick to it - it's not really that bad, just not what you would expect from a high end notebook. i was going to get an external display anyway so I could work with that at home - and I noticed that with direct backlight my matte mbp is much easier to work with than the old glossy vaio.

It seems you just can't have everything... a fast portable that will run osx and windows AND has a good display... not even for €2000.

This breaks my heart...damnit. Guess Ill be leaving Apple for now.

 

[iBorg20181]

<snip>
One of the sales employees told me that apple's notebook displays are (surprise surprise) not exactly among the best out there and if I wanted a state of the art display I'd have to buy a vaio
<snip>(

That's a first! Never heard an Apple Store employee bad-mouth anything-Apple!

iBorg

 

[PDE]

I went with a European friend yesterday to get a macbook pro at the Apple Store. We looked for a long time at the many display models and both agreed that at first glance, the glossy ones appeared to have less grain and appeared more attractive in terms of contrast, viewing angle and brightness. When we looked closer that all seems to be an illusion - the glossiness enhances contrast and brings colors out - but underneath that layer is the same screen as the matte books. The viewing angle and brightness are also the same (we didn't measure of course) - but the glossy display makes you think that it's better because it enhances contrast slightly so that when you look from the side, the far away parts look 'sharper'. Hard to describe.

My buddy got the matte one because he felt that the glossy, nice as it is, will make his eyes tired quicker. I agree. We brought it home and compared it directly with my 20" cinema display (purchased early 2006) and found that:

- the brightness on the MBP was roughly the same as the cinema display, if not slightly brighter
-the "GRAIN" is there in the cinema display too - I really don't see a problem at all and there is almost no difference between the two displays in terms of grain. In fact, I think it seems very comfortable on my eyes. If you go closer and look for it, you'll find a slight shimmering on both the cinema display and the MBP, but only if you put your nose to it. Maybe the cinema display is a little better, but certainly not by much.

- I was amazed at the similarities between the screens when seen straight on. The main difference is viewing angle and a slight uneven distribution of illumination on the MBP - see the pictures below. Truth is, most LCDs have some uneven illumination and this is not that bad. In real life, it's hardly a problem and I would barely notice it. Also keep in mind that the camera captures things differently than the eye - the upper corners look fine to me, but the pictures seems to show that they're darker. I can't see it in real life!

-The MBP has stronger blacks and whiter whites than the cinema display and there is only very very sligh bleeding at the bottom.

- Unlike previous powerbooks, the MBP seems to have a harder LCD panel - try pressing it and you'll see what I mean. I suspect that that's whatever anti-glare layer they put on.

Took some pictures of the MBP and will try to take some that show the cinema display and MBP together.

 

[TheSpaz]

I went with a European friend yesterday to get a macbook pro at the Apple Store. We looked for a long time at the many display models and both agreed that at first glance, the glossy ones appeared to have less grain and appeared more attractive in terms of contrast, viewing angle and brightness. When we looked closer that all seems to be an illusion - the glossiness enhances contrast and brings colors out - but underneath that layer is the same screen as the matte books. The viewing angle and brightness are also the same (we didn't measure of course) - but the glossy display makes you think that it's better because it enhances contrast slightly so that when you look from the side, the far away parts look 'sharper'. Hard to describe.

My buddy got the matte one because he felt that the glossy, nice as it is, will make his eyes tired quicker. I agree. We brought it home and compared it directly with my 20" cinema display (purchased early 2006) and found that:

- the brightness on the MBP was roughly the same as the cinema display, if not slightly brighter
-the "GRAIN" is there in the cinema display too - I really don't see a problem at all and there is almost no difference between the two displays in terms of grain. In fact, I think it seems very comfortable on my eyes. If you go closer and look for it, you'll find a slight shimmering on both the cinema display and the MBP, but only if you put your nose to it. Maybe the cinema display is a little better, but certainly not by much.

- I was amazed at the similarities between the screens when seen straight on. The main difference is viewing angle and a slight uneven distribution of illumination on the MBP - see the pictures below. Truth is, most LCDs have some uneven illumination and this is not that bad. In real life, it's hardly a problem and I would barely notice it. Also keep in mind that the camera captures things differently than the eye - the upper corners look fine to me, but the pictures seems to show that they're darker. I can't see it in real life!

-The MBP has stronger blacks and whiter whites than the cinema display and there is only very very sligh bleeding at the bottom.

- Unlike previous powerbooks, the MBP seems to have a harder LCD panel - try pressing it and you'll see what I mean. I suspect that that's whatever anti-glare layer they put on.

Took some pictures of the MBP and will try to take some that show the cinema display and MBP together.

Thanks for the pictures... and from what it looks like... you have a different display than I had. Mine had a bright strip along the bottom from the backlight leaking. Also mine was not dark in any corners but, the whole right side was dimmer but, I could barely tell unless I had a huge white window open that took up the whole screen. Overall the MacBook Pro was a great machine but, I guess I was just used to little or NO grain on the display. I'm using my PowerBook G4 and I can't help but notice how crystal clear this display is compared to the MacBook Pro. That's the only reason I complain. If I would have had a 20" ACD for a long time and then switched to the MacBook Pro I probably wouldn't have noticed anything out of the ordinary since by then it would have been ordinary to me. So, there are people out there who are buying their first notebook computer from Apple and think it's perfect! I'm happy for them. Also, not too many people seem to be fussing about it so I gotta believe that people just don't see it or they don't care. It's a matter of opinion really... what bothers you and what is acceptable to you.

 

[TheSpaz]

I'm starting to think I made a lot of people mad because they didn't see the grain until I pointed it out and now they're pissed off because they can't avoid seeing it now. And now everyone is returning their computers or holding off on purchasing one. My suggestion to those people getting ready to buy one. Go to an Apple Store or an Apple reseller and check out these computers... look at both the glossy and matte screens and see if you'd like working on this computer because it's gonna be what you'll be looking at if you buy it. Also look at overall build quality: Is the case solid, do the keys squeak when you tap them is there any warping or is the case becoming separated from itself (which it was on mine but, I simply pressed it down and heard a click... then it stayed down). These are all things to think about if you're gonna buy one. Have fun and don't let me change your mind about purchasing a perfectly fine machine if you don't mind what the display looks like (if you even notice it).

 

[phoo]

[...] So, there are people out there who are buying their first notebook computer from Apple and think it's perfect! I'm happy for them. Also, not too many people seem to be fussing about it so I gotta believe that people just don't see it or they don't care. It's a matter of opinion really... what bothers you and what is acceptable to you.

Like moving to a lcd from an average crt. The crt had never bothered me but when I got a notebook with an lcd display my old 19" crt looked extremely blurry in comparison. It all depends on what you are used to...

 

[PDE]

I have to agree that my old powerbook G4s and even the G3s all had more even illumination. However, they were also substantially dimmer. I think the combination of a very bright screen and the new anti-reflective coating is highlighting any uneven illumination. It's hard to believe Apple would skimp on something that any of its target customers (pro graphics people) would notice immediately and which any professional reviewer would notice immediately. I honestly don't think the display is that bad, but of course for the price it could and should be better - especially viewing angles.

 

[PDE]

Like moving to a lcd from an average crt. The crt had never bothered me but when I got a notebook with an lcd display my old 19" crt looked extremely blurry in comparison. It all depends on what you are used to...

Absolutely. I have a macbook that I thought was exceptionally bright - until my friend put his macbook pro next to it! Now it looks dim in comparison...

 

[blankartist]

And here I was laughing at the original MacBook Pro buyers for buying first generation Macs. I can definitely see dithering when surfing photos on Flickr.