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Eminemdrdre00

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
May 10, 2008
698
650
This is a good read, I hope it gets some attention. Apple should be ashamed of themselves. Again, it's not the crime -- it's the cover-up.

http://mantia.me/blog/macbook-pro-thousands-of-colors/

A few weeks ago, when Apple announced the new 13″ MacBook Pro, my ears perked up. (I may be an Apple fanboy, but I paid attention a little bit more this time.) Of course, they always advertise “gorgeous” displays. With the new MacBook Pro lineup, they boasted a wider color gamut. Okay…

Later that week, I walked into the St. Louis Galleria Apple Store, checked it out. Seemed fine to me. I needed a replacement for my 17″ MacBook Pro, you see. As Travis likes to call it, it’s an aircraft carrier. I hated lugging the thing around, especially when the weight was on my back or shoulders. I wanted a more portable machine, but I demanded the same specs. I was perfectly happy to find nearly every spec in the high-end 13″ Pro was matched (or better) to my year old 17″ Pro. The hot sexy unibody was calling my name.

I asked the sales rep if it was a 6bit or 8bit display. They didn’t know. (Nobody seems to know, Apple doesn’t give out this information to the sales reps, geniuses, tech support, nobody.) They told me it was upgraded from the 13″ MacBook’s screen, so they assumed it was better, it had a “wider color gamut” so… it must have been?

I fired up Twitterrific on my iPhone, and while I was in the Apple Store, tweeted about selling my 17″ Pro for less than half my purchase price. (I had tried selling it before, but this price was just right.) It sold within a day, and I went back to the Apple Store as soon as it did, and I made my purchase. Then I remembered I’d need an adapter for my 30″ Apple Cinema Display. I relayed the info to a sales rep, and they rang me up for the MacBook Pro and the adapter.

I went back home. Used it for a bit, no issues. It was only until I arrived back in North Carolina that I noticed both of my problems: my MacBook Pro had a less-than-stellar display and the adapter the sales rep sold me was not for my 30″ display. The MacBook Pro 13″ has a 6bit display. That means it cannot really display millions of color. Yes, on Apple’s website it claims it can “support millions of colors,” but what they don’t tell you is that it does so through a process called “dithering.” Any designer knows what that means. Anyone else: it means the screen will display colors closely in a pattern in order to give you the perception of a blended color. The display adapter is another story. The 30″ display requires a Dual-DVI Adapter, not a regular old DVI adapter. You see, when I was at the store, not only did I tell them I had a 30″ ACD, but I also asked “Isn’t that thing like $100?” They said, “Nope, it’s only $30!” I thought they lowered the price or something, but they sold me the wrong one. So instead I was stuck with an adapter that output 1280×800 on my 30″ display instead of 2560×1600. Horrible.

I called Apple Support about both of these issues. I first discussed my displeasure of using the “new” MacBook Pro display. I complained that it was a Pro machine, and should be treated as such. There are 8bit portable displays, you know, and Apple should be a company that uses them, especially when they are generally known for great quality products, but instead, they went with the cheaper option, a lower bit display. He couldn’t verify this information, because Apple doesn’t give their Support team this info. Basically, the first tier of Apple Support only has as much information as you can find on your own at Apple’s website. Naturally, he asks me if I’m sure I have my colors set to millions. Yeah, these guys assume I’m an idiot. So of course, after a few minutes, he transfers me to the second tier. Generally this is where I get my answer, but I even stumped these guys. They don’t have the information either. They’ll have to contact Apple Engineering to see if they’ve got what I’m looking for.

A few days later, I get a phone call from Apple, letting me know that Apple Engineering has declined to disclose this information. Excuse me? Declined? I just purchased your product and all I want is for you to verify the specs that you advertise. It should not be that difficult to do. But apparently, it is. A few years ago, a few individuals started a class-action lawsuit against Apple for advertising millions of colors with their 6bit displays. Unfortunately, they needed a “class” for a class-action lawsuit, and not enough people cared/noticed. The matter was settled out of court.

They did offer to send me a replacement Dual-DVI adapter, which is great. Free of charge. Just what I wanted. But it’s just serving as a distraction. I want a better portable display.

I relayed the importance of this information and why Engineering should reconsider. Again, a few days later, they refuse. I ask if there’s anyone above the second tier of customer service. There is, it’s called Customer Relations. They’re corporate, apparently. I ask to speak to one of these individuals to find that they won’t budge at all. I made the argument that as a customer, I should be able to get this information no problem. They offered to give me a full refund of my purchase. I suppose this would be fine, if I could go to another Apple retail store and purchase a portable machine of this size that had an 8bit screen. The problem lies here that Apple is the only producer of computers that run OS X (I don’t want any arguments here, okay?) and they do not offer a 13″ MacBook Pro with an 8bit screen. Good information to know would be if the 15″ or 17″ have an 8bit screen. I might consider upgrading if I knew, but they won’t give me the information I require. I ask if there’s some way I can get it. The Consumer Relations woman tells me that “the documents you have asked for are not able to be released to you.” “They are internal documents, it’s not something that’s available to the public. We are not escalating the situation.” “We are not able to provide this information to you. You’ve exhausted all your resources at this point.”

What?! I’ve exhausted all my resources? Wow. I ask what more I can do. She suggests writing a letter. A real letter, like pen and paper. I ask for the address to send it to, of course it’s “One Infinite Loop—” “Cupertino, California. Yes, I know. Thanks.”

A few minutes later, I wonder if I can get a hold of an operator at the Cupertino campus. Maybe I can speak to an employee there that may be able to assist me in a way Apple Support/ Customer Relations is not. The operator I get transfers me to Support three times before I tell her that I need to speak to someone regarding an issue not related to technical support. She asks what it is. I briefly explain, and she responds similarly, to write a letter. “One Infinite Loop—” “Cupertino, California. Yes, I know. Whom should I direct attention to?” “Steve Jobs, he’s the CEO.” My thoughts are, “Uh huh, and he’s gonna read my letter?” I mean, doesn’t Steve Jobs have better things to do than to read my letter? Surely he does. So he doesn’t read my letter, other employees do. What many say to be the highest level of customer service. But wait, wasn’t I just talking with the highest level of customer service? Customer Relations, on the phone. Yes.

I called Apple Support again, with my case ID. With that, I am immediately taken to Customer Relations. I get another individual. I inform him that I was told that I should write a letter to have my complaint heard, and he assures me that is the best option. I ask how I can be assured that someone will read it, much less respond. I mean, really, I’ve sent to emails to Steve Jobs regarding other products, and neither have received a response, so how can I really expect one at this point? Also, if Customer Relations is the highest level I can go, who is reading my mail? This guy? He tells me no, that it’s another group. I asked him what the group is called, and he asks back, “Why?” Why?! I’ll tell you why, I’ve been going back and forth with Apple trying to get this information, so I’m writing down everything I can, so the name of this group would help. He sidetracks and doesn’t answer the question. He told me that he’s the highest level of customer service I can talk to on the phone.

Do these people who read mail not interact with customers by phone? He says they may, but they don’t have an incoming line. So what I’m supposed to do is write a letter, hope it will be read, and hope for a response. Yeah, right.

You might be sitting there thinking why I am possibly caring this much. Well, let me put this into perspective for you. You already know I’m a designer, so you know how important color is to me. A 8bit screen such as my 30″ Apple Cinema Display is able to achieve 16.7 million colors. A 6bit MacBook Pro screen? 262,144 thousand colors. That’s roughly 60 times less colors. That means for all of those colors it can’t display, it blends with nearby pixels. This is just embarrassing and unacceptable.

I did look up the model number, for those of you who are curious. The one inside my machine is a LP133WX3-TLA1, which is a LG Philips display. The product guide on their site does not have this model number, but all of the other displays they offer for portable machines are 6bit.

In a machine labeled a “MacBook Pro,” you’d think they’d cater to, well I don’t know, professionals?"
 
The article basically says that the 13" MacBook Pro is only capable of displaying thousands of colours as its display only supports 6-bit colour. Apple advertises on the website that it supports "Millions of colours" and achieves this through a shady technique known as dithering.
 
Who cares?

Don't use a laptop screen if colour accuracy is that important to you.

I don't think anyone is bringing this up because they need the extra accuracy, it is because Apple is making fraudulent claims of support for "Millions of colours" on its website.
 
I don't think anyone is bringing this up because they need the extra accuracy, it is because Apple is making fraudulent claims of support for "Millions of colours" on its website.

Exactly! And they wont even tell him if the 15" or 17" Macbook Pros have an 8bit display (he is willing to upgrade if they do).

He got dugg, so the server is down, I'll quote his blog post in my original post.
 
That is pretty absurd of Apple. The fact that they can't provide an answer to his question tells you all you need to know. While I don't mind as long as the screen looks good, I know some people care a lot more than me, and Apple shouldn't post false information.
 
Wasn't this already known information?

Almost all laptop displays are 6 bit...
 
I care...

Who cares?

Don't use a laptop screen if colour accuracy is that important to you.


I care!

If Apple advertised to me that their product can display millions of colors, then I expect that the product will display millions of colors, and not just 200,000+ colors. Is that too much to ask? Dithering IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. That's just as bad as telling me that an upscaled DVD resolution is the same as HD.

Finally, why shouldn't I expect color accuracy on my laptop if Apple says I can expect it?
 
so it uses dithering to display millions of colors...so it still displays millions of colors.

the information is accurate. stop whining.
 
I care!

If Apple advertised to me that their product can display millions of colors, then I expect that the product will display millions of colors, and not just 200,000+ colors. Is that too much to ask? Dithering IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. That's just as bad as telling me that an upscaled DVD resolution is the same as HD.

Finally, why shouldn't I expect color accuracy on my laptop if Apple says I can expect it?

On the 2009 WWDC banner Apple said they were also "light-years ahead" of the competition....

If that were the case, where's my 128 core, 40000000 ghz 13" MBP?

After all, they said they were light years ahead right?
 
Old News.

Save your fake outrage for next time.

Please don't whine about dithering when you couldn't even tell the difference in the first place.
 
On the 2009 WWDC banner Apple said they were also "light-years ahead" of the competition....

If that were the case, where's my 128 core, 40000000 ghz 13" MBP?

After all, they said they were light years ahead right?



"Light-years ahead" of the competition is a figure of speech. A commonly accepted figure of speech. A reasonable person would not take that literally.

However, stating that a product can display millions of colors, is a specific claim which a consumer should be able to take literally. 6bit products can only display 200K+ colors. Which is what is on the MBP 13. So when Apple states that its MBP can display millions of colors, and its hardware is only capable of putting out 200K+ discrete colors, they are not being truthful. That is the crux of the argument.

When a manufacturer advertises a specific feature (i.e. millions of colors), then it is bound to deliver on that. Commerce Laws in the United States mandates that. Which is why when this goes to class action, Apple will silently settle. Perhaps in other parts of the world, manufacturers are free to make grandiose specific claims, and don't expect to be challenged when they misrepresent.
 
The apple apologists are in full force today... :rolleyes:

The fact is that Apple published a deceptive spec list and refuses to tell the customer if he can get an 8bit display on one of the other "pro" models. Technically apple didnt do anything wrong, but they are still being an ass about it.
 
"Light-years ahead" of the competition is a figure of speech. A commonly accepted figure of speech. Only a weak mind would misconstrue that.

However, stating that a product can display millions of colors, is a specific claim. 6bit products can display 200K+ colors. Which is what is on the MBP 13. So when Apple states that its MBP can display millions of colors, and its hardware is only capable of putting our 200K+ discrete colors, they are not being truthful. That is the CRUX of the issue. Are you having a problem understanding that?

When a manufacturer makes a SPECIFIC CLAIM, then it is bound to deliver on that. Our Commerce Laws in the United States mandates that. Which is why when this goes to class action, Apple will silently settle. Perhaps in your part of the world, manufacturers are free to make grandiose specific claims, and don't expect to be challenged when they LIE.

Not trying to defend Apple but technically it their website says "supports" millions of colors. Still pretty lame though since they seem to be trying to trick their customers.
 
Not trying to defend Apple but technically it their website says "supports" millions of colors. Still pretty lame though since they seem to be trying to trick their customers.

Agreed. Their use of the word "supports" might be an argument to get them off the hook. Either way, I hope they handle this better in the future. When I was in middle school, a long long time ago, the Apple ][GS came out with an analog display, rather than a digital display, which was cutting edge at the time. Apple was positioning itself as cutting edge, and when questioned about the analog display, they didn't run around like they're doing with the MBP 13; they explained why they implemented analog. If I recall correctly it had to do with pixel manipulation so the display would exhibit more colors (funny, given today's topic). They were honest then, and the controversy ended. That's all they need to do -- be honest and let the product speak for itself. The hard-nosed tactics it uses on its customers aren't necessary.
 
Scientific question: Can our eyes even see millions of colors?

Ethical question: Apple is deceiving it's customers, so does it matter?


Thats like advertising a car and syaing it can go "over 800mph!!!" Theres no place to test this car at 800mph, but that doesnt mean they can get away with selling a car that only goes 600.
 
Ethical question: Apple is deceiving it's customers, so does it matter?


Thats like advertising a car and syaing it can go "over 800mph!!!" Theres no place to test this car at 800mph, but that doesnt mean they can get away with selling a car that only goes 600.

+1

This is an ethical and potentially a legal matter.
 
OP: I think out of all this useless junk you typed up, the real point you wanted to get across is that you expected an 8-bit display, but when you bought it, you didn't bother to find out (answer was on google, first page) and now you are pissed. You do know you can return it? Instead of fussing over something that is common knowledge, you have to fuss like a baby over his food.

Read this article, which specifically tests the new MBPs displays for color accuracy. The 13" MBP seems to hold up pretty well.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10041-10146&sr=hotnews
 
+1

This is an ethical and potentially a legal matter.

The display can display millions of colors, it just does it by dithering.

It's like how TV's have 1,000,000:1 contrast ratios when they really don't (you can't get that contrast ratio out of a tv all in one frame.)

It's a laptop LCD people... It's not a professional display, but it's still pretty damn good for being a laptop display.
 
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